hopefulLandlord:
Never knew argumentum ad populum is what we are to use here; let's even assume consensus shows says there's "evidence" for a designer, does that suddenly make it true? I mean there was a time consensus would show almost all humans on earth thought the earth is flat, stationary and the sun moves over it, does that suddenly make it true?

if no, why are you screaming consensus?

Are you kidding me ? She claimed there is no verifiable evidence for a designer and I asked if this is a world-wide consensus - this is not an appeal to the people because there is no attempt to draw a conclusion on anything .

Please save the facade of being logical to those who don't understand logic like your friends here

KingEbukasBlog:


Honestly , Ive had enough of your stupid talk . You claimed agnostics are atheists now this ?

Abeg, don't let me enter you. Dunce that doesnt realise that an agnostic is an atheist. Dont let me call other atheists to ridicule you.

JackBizzle:






Abeg, don't let me enter you. Dunce that doesnt realise that an agnostic is an atheist. Dont let me call other atheists to ridicule you.

Please call them abeg

Proudgorgeousga:


I get your point now. The problem is that the person you were replying argues more for deism instead of his Yahweh.

So my question is if eventually an intelligent designer is proven to exist will you now call it god seeing as it actually created something as claimed. even if it is not interested in his creation?

In general conversation, where "intelligent Designer" is defined as god, I would have no choice.

In fact, I'd stretch further. If sufficient evidence is provided for God, I would not be an atheist. Same as I would not argue that I do not have a million pounds in my hands if I were holding a million pounds in my hands.

KingEbukasBlog:


Are you kidding me ? She claimed there is no verifiable evidence for a designer and I asked if this is a world-wide consensus - this is not an appeal to the people because there is no attempt to draw a conclusion on anything.

and you asked if its a consensus, what do you mean by that pathetic excuse of a question?

stop this nonsensical way of posting and try to make sense for once

there's NO evidence of a designer, challenge that if you can and not this nonsense of asking if its a consensus

[s]Please save the facade of being logical to those who don't understand logic like your friends here [/s]

save your useless questions for those who don't understand them like your friends

KingEbukasBlog:


Your imaginations




Red herring . I know it is extremely difficult for an atheist(your type of atheists) to be logical but please I implore you to focus on the argument .

The question again : Is this a world-wide consensus or what your imaginations reveal to you

If there were verifiable evidence we won't be here arguing. I didn't imagine anything it is you who believe in an imaginary three in one god with no evidence.

p.s.. I'm agnostic.

Proudgorgeousga:


If there were verifiable evidence we won't be here arguing. I didn't imagine anything it is you who believe in an imaginary three in one god with no evidence.

There are claims of verifiable evidence for evolution , the age of the earth , the shape of earth yet there are still arguments on these things . Poor logic again dear .

p.s.. I'm agnostic.

Irrelevant information

KingEbukasBlog:


Now I'm certain you are confused .But I sense the serious battle within you , keep fighting and break free .

The atheists who believe a creator of the universe exists do not take it as a deity or a god since atheism rejects deification .

An atheist who believes in a creator is deluded! If it created the universe, why argue that it is not a god? Does it matter? It created the universe for Christ sake!

Please do not count me amongst such people in future conversations. I do not only reject deification, but also the existence of deities, spirits, angels, aliens, flying spaghetti, creators of universes etc!

budaatum:

An atheist who believes in a creator is deluded! If it created the universe, why argue that it is not a god? Does it matter? It created the universe for Christ sake!

Please do not count me amongst such people in future conversations. I do not only reject deification, but also the existence of deities, spirits, angels, aliens, flying spaghetti, creators of universes etc!

you reject the flying spaghetti monster?

how dare you reject the creator of the universe?

don't you know there are proof that FSM is real? ask and I'll give them to you

budaatum:

Now you see his error! It is the reason I set up this thread suspecting many atheist would not accept it!

What error ? You claimed that atheists do not accept aliens exist . For Christ sake , atheist like Stephen Hawkins , Richard Dawkins and many atheists all support the idea of extra terrestrial life , their position on extra terrestrial life has nothing to with their atheism . You can choose to reject or accept extra terrestrial life as an atheist .

KingEbukasBlog:


There are claims of verifiable evidence for evolution , the age of the earth , the shape of earth yet there are still arguments on these things . Poor logic again dear .



Irrelevant information

so now you agree with evolution? congratulations.?? ?

I guess they argue either because there isa missing link or deluded individuals like you like to argue despite the evidence.

KingEbukasBlog:


There are claims of verifiable evidence for evolution , the age of the earth , the shape of earth yet there are still arguments on these things . Poor logic again dear .



Irrelevant information

Within science, evolution is not debated. Have you seen one peer reviewed scientific journal state that evolution is false?

Why are you into false equivalencies? The evidence for God and Evolution are very different. One is bare and the other is plentiful.

budaatum:

An atheist who believes in a creator is deluded! If it created the universe, why argue that it is not a god? Does it matter? It created the universe for Christ sake!

'God' is a title , deity is an elevated status , it can be given to any entity , even a system , it can be rejected as well . Example : The universe is called God by some pantheists .

The atheists who accept the universe has a creator don't see it as a deity or a God or having a divine status . Why? Because atheism rejects deification . They are not deluded , you are .

Since there is nothing that should be regarded as a deity to an atheist , then atheists don't acknowledge the existence of deities .

Please do not count me amongst such people in future conversations. I do not only reject deification, but also the existence of deities, spirits, angels, aliens, flying spaghetti, creators of universes etc!

That is your business . Rejection of deification is atheism , the rest are just personal beliefs you have and have nothing to do with atheism .

Proudgorgeousga:


so now you agree with evolution? congratulations.?? ?

I guess they argue either because there isa missing link or deluded individuals like you like to argue despite the evidence.

You are making my point young lady . You are one of the deluded individuals who still argue on the existence of an intelligent source of the universe or reality despite the evidence .

JackBizzle:



Within science, evolution is not debated. Have you seen one peer reviewed scientific journal state that evolution is false?

Why are you into false equivalencies? The evidence for God and Evolution are very different. One is bare and the other is plentiful.

Apparently , you missed the point . Look up to see why

KingEbukasBlog:


You are making my point young lady . You are one of the deluded individuals who still argue on the existence of an intelligent source of the universe or reality despite the evidence .

where is the peer reviewed scientistific journal that proves this intelligent source of the universe. Show me so I can become a deist mtcheew!

you are still yhe deluded. one

KingEbukasBlog:


What error ? You claimed that atheists do not accept aliens exist . For Christ sake , atheist like Stephen Hawkins , Richard Dawkins and many atheists all support the idea of extra terrestrial life , their position on extra terrestrial life has nothing to with their atheism . You can choose to reject or accept extra terrestrial life as an atheist .

They are scientists! The pose aliens as a possibility. They do not adopt a belief in their existence even if they support the idea that they might exist.

budaatum:

They are scientists! The pose aliens as a possibility. They do not adopt a belief in their existence even if they support the idea that they might exist.

pls tell him o

hopefulLandlord:


you reject the flying spaghetti monster?

how dare you reject the creator of the universe?

don't you know there are proof that FSM is real? ask and I'll give them to you

My bad. My head is turning with all this up and down. A Spaghetti Monster was in my house just this very yesterday, creating a new universe.

Proudgorgeousga:

where is the peer reviewed scientistific journal that proves this intelligent source of the universe

Look up the word 'evidence' - this is no indication that it must be scientific .Eg Our moral experience serves as evidence for objective and subjective morality . That aside , with scientific evidence we can make logical conclusions . There is scientific evidence that shows the universe has a beginning , the corollary is to affirm the existence of a creator since it is logically absurd to posit that something can come from nothing or create itself .

budaatum:

They are scientists! The pose aliens as a possibility. They do not adopt a belief in their existence even if they support the idea that they might exist.

Mister , it has nothing to with their atheism or theism - that's the point .

KingEbukasBlog:


Look up the word 'evidence' - this is no indication that it must be scientific .Eg Our moral experience serves as evidence for objective and subjective morality . That aside , with scientific evidence we can make logical conclusions . There is scientific evidence that shows the universe has a beginning , the corollary is to affirm the existence of a creator since it is logically absurd to posit that something can come from nothing or create itself .

sorry this your usual ebuka gibberish isn't evidence bye.

Proudgorgeousga:


sorry this your usual ebuka gibberish isn't evidence bye.

Of course that's why are still arguing because people like you are deluded . I told you so .

Run run away ! Like cowards do ! Close-minded and ignorant !

KingEbukasBlog:


Mister , it has nothing to with their atheism or theism - that's the point .

Have been following this back and forth and it is alarming how people cannot understand the simplest of things.

KingEbukasBlog:


Of course that's why are still arguing because people like you are deluded . I told you so .

Run run away ! Like cowards do ! Close-minded and ignorant !

where is the peer reviewed scientific evidence?.

You are even still bringing up objective morality argument that has been debunked many times.

You are still the mud rolling deluded one bye

butterflyl1on:


Have been following this back and forth and it is alarming how people cannot understand the simplest of things.

Its apparent they are being intransigent with their obsolete views because they want people to think the truth isn't being said . But the jokes on the them because they come off as close-minded and vacuous .

budaatum:

They are scientists! The pose aliens as a possibility. They do not adopt a belief in their existence even if they support the idea that they might exist.

The only place atheists hold firm is on the lack of belief in the existence of God or gods but an atheist can believe in the existence of anything else.

An atheist can believe in the existence of

Ghosts
Fairies
Extra terrestrials
Spirits
Elves
Etc

Anything but God and even in the case of God they simply reject his deification. An atheist can claim to be a god to himself but as long as he does not see himself as a deity he is fine.

KingEbukasBlog:


Its apparent they are being intransigent with their obsolete views because they want people to think the truth isn't being said . But the jokes on the them because they come off as close-minded and vacuous .

You know them well. Acting deaf and blind in the face of reality

Proudgorgeousga:


where is the peer reviewed scientific evidence?.

I know you got the idea of 'peer reviewed scientific evidence' from what you read online but please dont make a mess of it .

There is indeed scientific evidence for a universe with a beginning .

You are even still bringing up objective morality argument that has been debunked many times.

Hehehe ... I was trying to explain what evidence is , I wasn't bringing up the morality argument . Please don't call me deluded when you can't even understand simple things like this .

But if you want to challenge me to a debate on the moral argument then open a thread and prove to me that it has been debunked . Just the both of us .

KingEbukasBlog:


I know you got the idea of 'peer reviewed scientific evidence' from what you read online but please dont make a mess of it .

There is indeed scientific evidence for a universe with a beginning .



Hehehe ... I was trying to explain what evidence is , I wasn't bringing up the morality argument . Please don't call me deluded when you can't even understand simple things like this .

But if you want to challenge me to a debate on the moral argument then open a thread and prove to me that it has been debunked . Just the both of us .

Mr Ebuka the universe having a beginning does not prove intelligent design or an intelligent designer that is good and all knowing. we are not arguing about whether the the universe has a beginning or not.
There is no evidence for god so I don't know for sure. that why I'm agnostic not because I don't know if the universe has a beginning or not.


This is not about winning or losing a debate

I have read all the arguments. about objective morality both on nairaland and beyond including yours it wasn't very convincing. I have no intention of wasting my time beating a dead horse.

but you can share your opinion here if you want.

https://www.nairaland.com/4113374/moral-dilemma-makes-atheism-unwise/1#61398836

butterflyl1on:


The only place atheists hold firm is on the lack of belief in the existence of God or gods but an atheist can believe in the existence of anything else.

An atheist can believe in the existence of

Ghosts
Fairies
Extra terrestrials
Spirits
Elves
Etc

Anything but God and even in the case of God they simply reject his deification. An atheist can claim to be a god to himself but as long as he does not see himself as a deity he is fine.

There is no argument that many people believe in whatever they like and are called atheist or call themselves atheist or believe they are atheists. The definition of atheist is the issue here. As in what is an atheist.

If I call myself god, I am deifying myself. Say, buda, you are mad, please, atheist or not.

If I claim there is a creator of the universe, but there is no god, intelligent people would snigger. Any argument on the issue would be about definitions, same as what Allah people have with Yahweh. They would not be claiming there is no god, but which god is the real god. The same difference is that between those who claim 'aliens are the creator' and 'Yahweh is the creator'. The atheist is claiming not only that Yahweh and the alien creator are not gods, but that they don't exist regardless of whether you call them gods or not.

An 'atheist' who acknowledges the existence of a creator but just doesn't believe it, hasn't quite figured out their belief yet. That's like believing the million pounds in my pocket is not there. If they claim it too strongly, I'm sure we wouldn't mind taking the million pounds off them. They refused to acknowledge they had it. They wouldn't miss it.

Claiming the atheist acknowledges the existence of a creator but just doesn't believe it, is probably worse. They have a million pounds. We claim they haven't, regardless of what they make think. Then we take it off them! I have found this akin to setting up of a straw man just so we may mug them. What follows such statements proves my point:

Atheism Unwise And Potentially Dangerous

Atheism And Terrorism; Annihilation in The Quest For Atheistic Domination

Atheist Murderers(past/present) And The Murderous Tendencies Of Todays Atheists.

Some things have been deified. The atheist is claiming those deified things (the stone, the wind, Jesus Christ, the holy spirit, gods) are not deities, and some of them (angels, devils, fairies, the holy spirit, gods) do not even exist. The atheist does not accept the deification of things, nor the existence of deities or fairies, or ghosts, extra terrestrials, spirits, elves, angels, etc. If they do claim to be atheists, and claim these things exist, please subject them to the same arguments they use to disprove the existence of god, and ask them why it does not disprove the existence of fairies etc.

It like when we ask those who claim everything is created, and by a creator, what created god! We hold them in contempt for their acrobatic dishonesty!

budaatum:

There is no argument that many people believe in whatever they like and are called atheist or call themselves atheist or believe they are atheists. The definition of atheist is the issue here. As in what is an atheist.

If I call myself god, I am deifying myself. Say, buda, you are mad, please, atheist or not.

If I claim there is a creator of the universe, but there is no god, intelligent people would snigger. Any argument on the issue would be about definitions, same as what Allah people have with Yahweh. They would not be claiming there is no god, but which god is the real god. The same difference is that between those who claim 'aliens are the creator' and 'Yahweh is the creator'. The atheist is claiming not only that Yahweh and the alien creator are not gods, but that they don't exist regardless of whether you call them gods or not.

An 'atheist' who acknowledges the existence of a creator but just doesn't believe it, hasn't quite figured out their belief yet. That's like believing the million pounds in my pocket is not there. If they claim it too strongly, I'm sure we wouldn't mind taking the million pounds off them. They refused to acknowledge they had it. They wouldn't miss it.

Claiming the atheist acknowledges the existence of a creator but just doesn't believe it, is probably worse. They have a million pounds. We claim they haven't, regardless of what they make think. Then we take it off them! I have found this akin to setting up of a straw man just so we may mug them. What follows such statements proves my point:

Atheism Unwise And Potentially Dangerous

Atheism And Terrorism; Annihilation in The Quest For Atheistic Domination

Atheist Murderers(past/present) And The Murderous Tendencies Of Todays Atheists.

Some things have been deified. The atheist is claiming those deified things (the stone, the wind, Jesus Christ, the holy spirit, gods) are not deities, and some of them (angels, devils, fairies, the holy spirit, gods) do not even exist. The atheist does not accept the deification of things, nor the existence of deities or fairies, or ghosts, extra terrestrials, spirits, elves, angels, etc. If they do claim to be atheists, and claim these things exist, please subject them to the same arguments they use to disprove the existence of god, and ask them why it does not disprove the existence of fairies etc.

It like when we ask those who claim everything is created, and by a creator, what created god! We hold them in contempt for their acrobatic dishonesty!

You seem not to get it. A creator does not have to be a diety. An atheist can claim energy created everything. That is the creator he or she knows but they did not diefy it.

Your knowledge of atheism and its many variants is so laughably shallow.

I suggest you sniff around google for atheists who believe in the existence of ET, ghosts, fairies, elves, etc and you would be pleasantly surprised.

Nothing stops an atheist from believing in the existence of something else.the only thing he abhors is God or gods and their deification.

This is simple enough. Google would solve this puzzle easily for you in 2 clicks.