^^^^^
Frosbel, you will be very immodest if you continue using the word "we".You and "who"  do not
want this banking system? How dare you arrogate to yourself such a stance. The British and
EU society which is nourishing deviants of your type, on grounds of liberal democracy are not so
irresponsible as to allow ideas that they cannot control to flourish in their environment. Do you
claim to know better than them? You are just a trace element in those climes and you begin to puff
and broadcast arrant nonsense.

Perhaps you forget or refuse to acknowledge that these are the same societies(America included)
that  developed their fortunes in colonial times on other cultures and with decolonization began collecting
looted money from oil rich nations and looted funds from third world countries in their financial institutions
backed by water tight non disclosure rules.  Is it Switzerland,Britain, France , Portugal, Belgium, Portugal or
Spain? Name them. Americans and the western world are swimming in money invested by Arabs , Chinese and
Japanese. These guys will take deposits from the devil if possible.

I really do not see what lessons you want to teach them or Nigerians on  money ,its source, and use. Ditto
for moral rectitude and faithfulness to the various creeds. If you have decided to become a "Jim Jones", you will
be made to realise your folly. Jim Jones went to Haiti ,where do you intend to go?

Meanwhile  you will continue to be tolerated  despite your nuisance value in these pages, as evidence of how not
prejudice gone haywire.

Frosbel, you will be very immodest if you continue using the word "we".You and "who"  do not
want this banking system? How dare you arrogate to yourself such a stance. The British and
EU society which is nourishing deviants of your type, on grounds of liberal democracy are not so
irresponsible as to allow ideas that they cannot control to flourish in their environment. Do you
claim to know better than them? You are just a trace element in those climes and you begin to puff
and broadcast arrant nonsense.

Lol. Hogwash is all I can say here !

Perhaps you forget or refuse to acknowledge that these are the same societies(America included)
that  developed their fortunes in colonial times on other cultures and with decolonization began collecting
looted money from oil rich nations and looted funds from third world countries in their financial institutions
backed by water tight non disclosure rules.  Is it Switzerland,Britain, France , Portugal, Belgium, Portugal or
Spain? Name them. Americans and the western world are swimming in money invested by Arabs , Chinese and
Japanese. These guys will take deposits from the devil if possible.

Yes that's why they are taking money from those fanatics in Saudi Arabia !!

I really do not see what lessons you want to teach them or Nigerians on  money ,its source, and use. Ditto
for moral rectitude and faithfulness to the various creeds. If you have decided to become a "Jim Jones", you will
be made to realise your folly. Jim Jones went to Haiti ,where do you intend to go

Jim Jones was a cult leader like some other popular persons we know. 

Meanwhile  you will continue to be tolerated  despite your nuisance value in these pages, as evidence of how not
prejudice gone haywire

I beg your pardon ?




All my questions unanswered !

Topic derailed !

Debate closed !

POINT MADE !

@All: Those of you who continue to debate frosbel thinking he's really interested in facts are going no where fast. The guy is clearly misguided and engaging in curious forms of tortured circular logic.

Check this:

He doesn't hate moslems.
He doesn't care much about sharia banking.
But he hates sharia.
Sharia banking equals sharia, so he hates sharia banking.
But nooo he doesn't really hate interest-free banking.
Sharia banking is kinda built on interest-free banking,  Ah alas, so he now hates that too.
He is for freedom of speech. But sharia banking is going to take that away from him.
But he really doesn't mind sharia banking cuz he believe in freedom.
But ah! It is called 'sharia' banking so he hates it.

----
Ladies n gents are you confused yet? Cause typing all that almost fried up my brain - looool.
Talk about catch 22!

Frosbel is twisted with hate, hypocrisy and came here deliberately trying inflame anti-islamic sentiments.

I'm actually very pleased that most people here saw thru him and called him out on it. Gives me some kind of hope that nigeria may just be able to one day rise above our religious differences and perhaps confine recent sad incidents like the jos killings into our past.

People who deliberately seek to divide and inflame tensions should be told off in the strongest possible terms.

frosbel:

Another one of many lies.

How can you accuse me of lying?
Where is the proof?
Where has Islamic banking led to full sharia system
where?
And please don't use arguments of muslim countries where they had always had sharia system
and just added sharia banking to it
But I want an example of a place where they had a secular system
and because of Islamic banking, they adopted sharia system wholesale

frosbel:

You have rampaged throughout this article skipping over all the evidence.
I hate totalitarian ideologies BUT I have nothing against MUSLIMS anywhere and everywhere.
You are personalising this whole thing thereby creating a euphoria of victim based mentality.

Frosbel
I see most of your posts directed at painting a hideous picture of Islam
I don't often see you tell us about christianity -its beauty, how it is practised
One gets the impression that you are diverting attention from the serious ills of christianity
at least the version practised in Nigeria
Of course, you have some things against Islam
Just like I have my misgivings about the way christians in Nigeria carry on about Islam
without any concern about objectivity
You still have, for instance, the screaming headlines about Muslims wanting to convert Nigeria into a sharia state
whereas that is also the goal of christians
and they are working assiduously towards it
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-431142.0.html

But those are distractions

frosbel:

Okay and ? Should we now have a Sharia calender ?

How can this be a valid response to my point
I said if using gregorian calendar has not turned us into idol worshippers
meaning that we have borrowed something from idolatory without becoming idol worshippers
why can we not borrow something from sharia - sharia compliant banking
without becoming a state with full sharia laws

You now take that to mean that we want sharia calendar
Did we ask for that?
I said I cannot borrow from a bank
because of riba
and I want a solution to it

frosbel:

Once again  you are missing the point.

Please start from the beginning of this thread and study my comments and videos carefully, then you will understand my argument.

Lets try and be diligent in our analysis of a thread and not just dart about looking for snippets of info that will assist you in launching personal attacks.

To be truthful, I have made my point and I am now weary of unnecessary accusation instead of debate.

You have NOT PROVIDED any source or article to support any of your points.

I refuse to continue arguing for the sake of it.

You asked how the banking system is based on quran
I gave you the quranic verse

Now what is wrong with Sharia banking as described by the FSA?
I don't want to pay interest, I don't want to take interest
I don't want to lend money for production of or trade in arms, alcohol etc
Now somebody says that muslims charge interest secretly
Then you are free not to patronise them!

You linked Sharia banking to Zakat and from there to Jihad
Based on what Qadrawi said

Now Jihad is halal - acceptable
If a citizen of US fights against an enemy, is that ok?
You say it is defence
But we know that Bush could not provide evidence for American invasion of Iraq
What about Sadam - was he attacking America
while Bush was defending?
So why should a muslim not fight against his enemy
And if I chose to call that Jihad
why should it be a problem
And Jihad has rules
But christians have not provided to me rules on how they fight

Obama, while receiving the nobel prize for peace, confessed that people will always fight wars
So what guidance is provided to christians when forced to fight
as Iraq was even the one forced to fight American invasion

Will a christian fight women, non combatants, etc?
Remember that a christian country was the first to use a weapon of mass destruction
and christians used incendiary bombs freely during WWII

So if defence is acceptable to christians
why should muslims not defend themselves and call it Jihad

That is what the authetic Jihad is
We have some renegades declaring their own versions
Just like you have some private individuals (Americans) conducting arrest, detention and execution
In Afghanistan during the Bush years

Now as for Zakat, it is money taken from the wealthy
and given to the poor
It is one of the pillars of Islam

So if christians pay tithe, I have no objection to it
Muslims will also continue to pay zakat
And that nothing can change that

So what is the link with Jihad?
It is tenuous, but given human mind ingenuity it is conceivable
First zakat is to be distributed in the community where it is collected

However, it is possible that people raise money on the net and divert it
Remember that if I contribute such money
say for the welfare of Bosnia Muslims
It may not get to them
And if ends up with AL Qaida
I may be among those renegades next victims (suicide bombing)
And you know suicide is haraam since
you have quoted from book 5 of Bukhari

And by the way, the Al Qaida people don't they give a damn
if I die from their actions
Of course, they can be likened to Reverend King
over whose actions Nigerian christians have no control
but might have to answer for

This is lengthy
I am sorry

@omo~fat

@All: Those of you who continue to debate frosbel thinking he's really interested in facts are going no where fast. The guy is clearly misguided and engaging in curious forms of tortured circular logic.

When you used this same logic to attack the pope recently , it was fine by you, lol.

Check this:
He doesn't hate moslems

Common friend don't be daft, why should I hate Muslims

I am suspicious of certain Muslims trying to push through an agenda and will resist them to the fullest. Is that hate

He doesn't care much about sharia banking

Correct if it does not have any ties to Sharia which unfortunately it does !

But he hates sharia.

Wahabbist Sharia propagation worldwide with 100s of billions of Saudi Arabu petro-dollars is the problem for many of us.

But nooo he doesn't really hate interest-free banking.

Makes no sense

Sharia banking is kinda built on interest-free banking,  Ah alas, so he now hates that too.

musharaka’ credit, is also a form of interest

He is for freedom of speech. But sharia banking is going to take that away from him.
But he really doesn't mind sharia banking cuz he believe in freedom of speech.
But ah! It is called 'sharia' banking so he hates it.

Another deliberate lie. Typical.

Sharia as a system ( which includes Sharia banking ) is a threat to freedom of speech.

Ladies n gents are you confused yet? Cause typing all that almost fried up my brain - looool.
Talk about catch 22!

Confusion galore

Frosbel is twisted with hate, hypocrisy and came here deliberately trying inflame anti-islamic sentiments

Yeah right, I have hyped up so much hatred like your brothers the Almajaris in Kano to go and massacre Muslims. Miss road comment.

I'm actually very pleased that most people here saw thru him and called him out on it. Gives me some kind of hope that nigeria may just be able to one day rise above our religious differences and perhaps confine recent sad incidents like the jos killings into our past.

Most people are now informed and I am happy with that.

Many of them are in silent agreement but do not want to be drawn into a debate.

People who deliberately seek to divide and inflame tensions should be told off in the strongest possible terms.

The truth MUST be told.

You cannot stop it, if it offends you, pack your bags and go and live in Saudi or Iran. Those countries are more suited to your kind.

truly:

This is lengthy
I am sorry

Thanks we have all made our points.

People are now informed of both sides of the argument and can make up their minds. So far almost 2000 views.

I bear absolutely no animosity to you or Muslims, if that is what some people think, kudos to them.

But I will continue to debate news items that I think are controversial to the existence of freedom and human rights !


Oh by the way , why did you flag my youtube video ?

frosbel:

You cannot stop it, if it offends you, pack your bags and go and live in Saudi or Iran. Those countries are more suited to your kind.

You sit in the comfort of your home in england, fanning the flames of division and strife in Nigeria. People like you always willing to "fight" to the end with other people's blood. Coward!

omo~fat:

You sit in the comfort of your home in england, fanning the flames of division and strife in Nigeria. People like you always willing to "fight" to the end with other people's blood. Coward!

I am not comfortable here, I am coming to join you in Nigeria very soon, 

Maybe we can start a religious riot just between us, 

frosbel:

Thanks we have all made our points.
People are now informed of both sides of the argument and can make up their minds.  So far almost 2000 views.
I bear absolutely no animosity to you or Muslims, if that is what some people think, kudos to them.
But I will continue to debate news items that I think are controversial to the existence of freedom and human rights !
Oh by the way , why did you flag my youtube video ? 

I flagged your video?
When?
And how did you know I did?
I really have no reason to
I don't play dirty
By the way, while calling your misinformation information
I hope you will respond to my points

whats all the fuss about. Let those who want to save in islamic banks do so. They have a right to do what they want.

my money wont go there, so i know the action i'll take. But if there is a demand, let there be supply. Its business.

In this country, the people that will patronise islamic banking will never compare to that of the regular banks.

The backers of these banks see an easy market based on religious sentiment. They wont have to convince cutomers much. Its a niche.

As for britain, they are very wise. A lot of muslim billions will end up in their economy for the queen to spend. So its a case of money.

@frosbel, i posed a question, any response? i want us to have a civil discussion

mendax:

@frosbel & all;
i am sincerely hoping that we are sincere in seeking out the truth as opposed to winning an argument or just causing deviations from the topic at hand. The poster is free to post his questions if he is really sincere he wants to learn. The link posted by codebase, hopefully will satisfy the poster about the real ethics and values of the banking method in question. I hope the link will be useful

unfortunately, i dont hav much time, but i wish to quickly point out that, the name of something shouldnt really be a problem to you (because i noticed that is frosbels major problem). But if i may point out, that if the principles are good for your economy and the name is changed will u stil be willing to accept it? or are we still going to reject it (wether its good or bad) just because it comes from the muslims?

Again, I am more of a passive nairalander, because i dont like (& dont even hav the time) indulging myself in most of the distractions we find in such theads, but i hope the poster (frosbel) finds the guidance he is seeking.

@frosbel, a link was posted earlier from wikipedia where u can get an overview of how the sharia banking or musharakah or whatever u wish to call it is performed. If u take ur time to read it, it will explain how it is different from interest based banking.

if u wish to sincerely learn something, learn from a good source. like some1 pointed out, u cant learn about islam from anti-islamic sites. Y do u not goto learn maths from an english teacher? is it because he cannot count or is it because he is not an expert?

I noticed, like many other pple here, that ur problem is the "islamic" or "shariah" denotation. Lemme ask u, a question. Have u heard the word ARABIC NUMERALS? do you know y its called that way? because the west got the digits u use in maths today from the arabs. Do u or the rest of the west, think that the arabic numerals are been imposed on them? or is it another way of imposing the arab ideas that has not materialised over the past thousand years? so i dont think that if u really search ur soul, u have any complaints

finally, unlike u, the west has seen the value in interest free banking (even though u dont believe its interest free). But, during the recent economic crisis, banks were reducing there interest on loans, until at a point in the uk, it went as low as 0.5%. Then why not remove it completely? It was clear to the whole world at that time (i mean economic experts), that at that time, there would be no way forward if the interest rates were sustained.

@mendax ,

We have both learnt something from this debate.

By the way I listened to Sanusi recently make a speech and he comes across as very refined and academic.

Let’s hope we can dissociate our financial policies from extremist ideas. I believe this is possible.


I suggest we leave the matter to rest for now, .

@frosbel,

It is fair to say we have ALL learnt something. I personally do not know sanusi as a person, or even his predecessor. But lets all hope no one has any ulterior motives in the affair.

Lets just leave the matter to rest. cheers!

@ frosbel, e don tire u , why give up? continue abeg n lets enjoy your kwabsi

doubella:

@ frosbel, e don tire u , why give up? continue abeg n lets enjoy your kwabsi

You think I do not have a Job

^^^^^
Yes, maybe you are cleaning offices in London every morning and late in the evening.
The rest of the day, you are on a useless adventure against Islam.

citizenY:

^^^^^
Yes, maybe you are cleaning offices in London every morning and late in the evening.
The rest of the day, you are on a useless adventure against Islam.

Lol.

Jealousy !

I stand by everything stated here, but I just do not have time to be dragged into a protracted arguement with misled people like yourself.

^^^^^^
fatigue or has rigor mortis started setting in?

I think we should commend the maturity of frosbel, many others on NL would not even read counter opinion all they do is reapeating themselves and insulting opposing views, a visit to the so called religious section would convince, if not, confuse you.

[img][/img]

See Sanusi and his gang

[size=14pt]RED ALERT:Someone please kick this deluded religious bigot out of that ery sensitive position before this country's economy hits the rocks[/size]

hey frosbel or watever u call urself, u wacked and sick, dont you have something better to do, Islamic banking system has proven to be successful in europe and america,
Have you collected any facility b4? A word of advice for you. Collect loans from any bank that has the highest interest rate. I think this will serve you better, Your grand children will die trying to service that loan.

kerwa2001:

hey frosbel or watever u call urself, u wacked and sick, dont you have something better to do, Islamic banking system has proven to be successful in europe and america,
Have you collected any facility b4? A word of advice for you. Collect loans from any bank that has the highest interest rate. I think this will serve you better, Your grand children will die trying to service that loan.

Has it ? REALLY ?

frosbel:


Has it ? REALLY ?

Stop wasting your time with people like frosbel; He hates Islam, He is trying to preach his hate but yet trying so hard to hide it. All He has said is utter garbage. Non-interest banking is good, even acknowledged by him; but because It is a concept originating from Muslims it must not be allowed or it must be painted black!. That's his ideologyE even if Shariah banking system is a means of spreading Islamic Ideology; so what is wrong with that!. Was western education not used grossly to spread christianity in Nigeria!.

\learn to look at the merits of ideas and systems without bias. I advice you @ Frosbel to learn more about Islam perhaps it would help you out of your hate.

JaaizTech:

Stop wasting your time with people like frosbel; He hates Islam, He is trying to preach his hate but yet trying so hard to hide it. All He has said is utter garbage. Non-interest banking is good, even acknowledged by him; but because It is a concept originating from Muslims it must not be allowed or it must be painted black!. That's his ideologyE even if Shariah banking system is a means of spreading Islamic Ideology; so what is wrong with that!. Was western education not used grossly to spread christianity in Nigeria!.

\learn to look at the merits of ideas and systems without bias. I advice you @ Frosbel to learn more about Islam perhaps it would help you out of your hate.

My dear friend , you are the one spilling out hate here.

You hate people like me because I reject certain aspects of Islam.

Well God knows my heart so I could care less what your confused mind thinks.

Muslims are constantly attacking Christianity all over the web daily with some insults I dare not repeat here, they are also trying to force their beliefs on others 24*7, and yet you never hear a christian complaining in a bitter manner.

So if you translate criticism to mean hate, well thats you myopic opinion, deal with it.

Oh by the way , did I tell you. i have some new comments about Sharia banking. Check my next post.

Thanks.

Proponents of sharia banking rest their case on many verses of the Holy Koran that outlaw usury, not interest.

Verses that address the question of loans and debts include:

Al Baqarah (2:275): God hath permitted trade and forbidden usury;

Al Baqarah (2:276): Allah does not bless usury, and He causes charitable deeds to prosper, and Allah does not love any ungrateful sinner.

Every English-language translation of the Koran has translated the Arabic word riba as usury, not interest. Yet, Islamists have deliberately portrayed bank interest as usury and labelled the current banking system as un-Islamic. Instead, these Islamists have created exotic products with names that are foreign to much of the world's Muslim population.

This is where they mask interest under the niqab of Mudraba, Musharaka, Murabaha, and Ijara. Two authors, both senior Muslim bankers, have written scathing critiques of sharia banking, one labelling the practice as nothing more than "deception," with the other suggesting the entire exercise was "a convenient pretext for advancing broad Islamic objectives and for lining the pockets of religious officials." Why Nigerian banks would contribute to this masquerade is a question for ordinary peope to ask.


Muhammad Saleem is a former president and CEO of Park Avenue Bank in New York. Prior to that, he was a senior banker with Bankers Trust where, among other responsibilities, he headed the Middle East division and served as adviser to a prominent Islamic bank based in Bahrain. In his book, Islamic Banking — A $300 Billion Deception, Mr. Saleem not only dismisses the founding premise of sharia and Islamic banking, he says, "Islamic banks do not practise what they preach: they all charge interest, but disguised in Islamic garb. Thus they engage in deceptive and dishonest banking practises."

Another expert, Timur Kuran, who taught Islamic Thought at the University of Southern California, mocks the very idea. In his book, Islam and Mammon: The Economic Predicaments of Islamism, Prof. Kuran writes that the effort to introduce sharia banking "has promoted the spread of anti-modern currents of thought all across the Islamic world. It has also fostered an environment conducive to Islamist militancy."

Dozens of Islamic scholars and imams now serve on sharia boards of the banking industry. Moreover, a new industry of Islamic banking conferences and forums has emerged, permitting hundreds of sharia scholars to mix and mingle with bankers and economists at financial centres around the globe. In the words of Mr. Saleem, who attended many such meetings, they gather "to hear each other praise each other for all the innovations they are making." He gives examples of how sharia scholars only care for the money they get from banks, willing to rubberstamp any deal where interest is masked.

What's your point bro cos u've been going back and forth on dis topic
Isn't the whole idea going to be based on CHOICE
Each customer have a right to decide how they save their money. The product CANNOT be forced on nigerians so take a big chill pill

jay bee:

What's your point bro cos u've been going back and forth on dis topic
Isn't the whole idea going to be based on CHOICE
Each customer have a right to decide how they save their money. The product CANNOT be forced on nigerians so take a big chill pill

Absolutely.

I just wanted to make sure there are no ulterior motives.


You know I am a very inquisitive mind.

is sanusi an hamas?

@poster.It's funny aw u think the US and the UK don't have plans to curtail any ulterior motives.