Stop The Prosecution Of The Pope!

I wonder what this world is turning into,  to the extend that some atheistic bastards even have the guts to call for the Pope's arrest when he visits
Britain in September. Why not try to call for the arrest of a minor Imam for amputation based on Sharia law. The Church have grown so silent and complacent to public opinion, that is why the western media thinks it can intimidate the highest order of moral authority,  so there will no longer be any moral voice remaining on earth. If the Pope did in truth prevent a priest from being prosecuted, where has it being said that the Pope prevented law enforcement officers from doing their work. Let the truth be said, it is wrong for anyone, clergy or laity, to abuse sexually another in any way, but no one should be accused of another's crime. The church has over the years invested in the education of young minds in all spheres of life, of which i am a product, and issues of such abuse are rare to say the least and nearly non-existent in Africa. Why then try giving the Church a bad name, for a remote incident in one or two cases of a religion with believers around 30% the world's population. It is time we rise to our Church's defense,  Archbishop John Onayekan, referring to the incident noted that the western media has never highlighted the work of the good works of the Church in it's life cycle, but can only seize this slightest opportunity to discredit her moral authority. The Church has produced saints of our time like Mother Theresa of Calcutta, Pope John Paul II etc. It's time we speak up to end this calculated attach on Christianity,  However, the Bible predicts that this times will come when the Church will fall under intense persecution, ", and when these days come, know that the end is near, "

[tr]"highest order of moral authority"[/tr]
There is no such thing or person. Jesus is the final Authority.
Jesus was arrested and persecuted. if that's done to the pope, he is simply following the footsteps of Jesus. Don't you think?

Jesus died once, for our sins and is Risen, seated at the right hand of God. Don't you believe that?
The Pope is "the highest order of moral authority on earth" whom we see as the leader of the Church right down from St. Peter the apostle.

TBits:

[tr]"highest order of moral authority"[/tr]
There is no such thing or person. Jesus is the final Authority.
Jesus was arrested and persecuted. if that's done to the pope, he is simply following the footsteps of Jesus. Don't you think?

Thank you!

bebrief:

Jesus died once, for our sins and is Risen, seated at the right hand of God. Don't you believe that?
The Pope is "the highest order of moral authority on earth" whom we see as the leader of the Church right down from St. Peter the apostle.

You slide in the first quote about Jesus dying for our since and then somehow make the leap to the fact that the pope is the highest order of moral authority as though the two statements are logically consequent.

Damn

Mr Bebrief,

Your reaction and responses are very telling.

Four people respond to your post. Two people respond (partly) to the substance of what you posted. Mr TBits even asked your opinion on one of your points. You chose to ignore those.

Instead, you chose to respond to the other two posts that didnt directly relate (in substance) to your post.

You really don't have much to say except fight and name-call.

That sir, says a lot about you.

As a Catholic, I am not happy the way the Pope and his media managers handled the crisis! All the talk about the Western media ambushing the Church and demonising her is rubbish! Truly, the Vatican covered up some of these crimes and once again , we must come out to the open, admit our faults and have a stronger ways in dealing with these randy priests. what the press is writing is the truth, only the truth will set us free not pity party or blame game!

@rotimy - thank you for your refreshing honesty.

The point of the matter is that the Catholic church as an institution has presided over the rape if innocent young children. This is not just the matter of a few bad individuals within the church. No, it has become institutionalised. And together, as an institution, the abuse was covered up. If this was any other organisation it would be called a paedophile ring, which in fact is what it is.

The pope, the head of this paedophilic organisation, was aware of it's activities and conspired in the cover up. Again if it was any other organisation it would be disbanded and all it's members charged with their crimes. But this is the Roman Catholic Church.

And that is the point that Dawkins and the other atheists are trying to make and which the OP amply demonstrates. ie, There is tendency to make allowances for religious figures to, on a minor charge, talk rubbish without being questioned, and, on a graver major charge, even commit the most atrocious crimes and not be questioned.

If what had happened was any other organisation apart from the venerable catholic church then Benedick or is it MaleDick would have ben thrown in prison a long time ago. Him and his other child molesting fiends.

That is the point that Dawkin's is trying to make.

bebrief:

May God forgive your insolence! I do not want to describe your comment cos it's so shameful.

Silence is the best answer for a F.O.O.L.

May God applaud me and give me two thumbs up for telling it as it is.

Loud cheers are the best answer to a honest person.

another observation has come to my attention.  I've noticed that certain psychological profiles/types are drawn to certain professions.  Ie.  Many gays are drawn to the arts, like dancers, or fashion designers.  etc

and Many paedophiles seem drawn to catholicism.  

Or is it the other way round.  what is the connections between certain professions and psychology types.

In as much as we give honor to whom it is due, what is bad is bad and must not be covered up.

Can u imagine someone sexually abusing your 6yr old son, or your 10yrs old deaf child!!! and when you made a report to the church which is supposed to be an intermediary btw men and God, it was covered up!!!Can you imagine this now happening to as many as 10,20,30,50 children and it is all being covered up? how would you feel.

they cover it up to the extent that it is been replicated in several other places and continents and instead of prosecuting the culprits, the are rather redeployed elsewhere and still allowed contact with children.

i believe such people should be purnished and if they are actually men of honour or men of God they should resign and save the church from being scandalised and put to shame.

In conclusion, [size=16pt][size=8pt][size=8pt][size=8pt][size=8pt][size=8pt]i wonder what your reaction would be if you discovered that your young son or daughter of 10yrs has been sexually abused by the church priest as far back as 4yrs ago and when you made a report, rather than purnish him, he was rather redeployed to another parish[/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/size]

Pastor AIO:

The pope, the head of this paedophilic organisation, was aware of it's activities and conspired in the cover up.  Again if it was any other organisation it would be disbanded and all it's members charged with their crimes.  But this is the Roman Catholic Church.

A little more logic and less bigotry would help here. How do you propose to prosecute 1.1 bn people for pedophilia? Perhaps, you will be able to enlighten us on the mechanism for such a trial.

You state that the Pope was aware of these abuses but conspired to cover it up, can you enlighten us on one specific example of this.

another observation has come to my attention.  I've noticed that certain psychological profiles/types are drawn to certain professions.  Ie.  Many gays are drawn to the arts, like dancers, or fashion designers.  etc

and Many paedophiles seem drawn to catholicism.  

Or is it the other way round.  what is the connections between certain professions and psychology types.

Your conjectures are quite sophomoric. It's a bit commonsensical to state that a craddle-robber will be drawn to any profession in which he can enjoy privileged access to children, e.g male teachers and other male child care workers face disproportionate charges of child sexual abuse compared to the general male population but it will take a leap of logic to claim that this means there is something fundamentally wrong with these professions.

Is there evidence that incidents of paedophilia is more common amongst Catholic clergy that the general male populations, never mind men working in professions with regular access to children?

Pastor AIO:

The point of the matter is that the Catholic church as an institution has presided over the despoil if innocent young children. This is not just the matter of a few bad individuals within the church. No, it has become institutionalised. And together, as an institution, the abuse was covered up. If this was any other organisation it would be called a paedophile ring, which in fact is what it is.

The pope, the head of this paedophilic organisation, was aware of it's activities and conspired in the cover up. Again if it was any other organisation it would be disbanded and all it's members charged with their crimes.

Are you saying all priests (including the pope) have this disorder?

This pedophilic Pope should go to jail.

As a Catholic, I am not happy the way the Pope and his media managers handled the crisis!

Maybe as a Catholic you should first find out if the articles by the media is true. I just posted one by another major newspaper agency that flat out called the other news agency liars, which they really are.

If one is going to be prosecuted, shouldn't they be prosecuted for the actual crimes, rather than for crimes that people claim was committed but can't prove?

what the press is writing is the truth, only the truth will set us free not pity party or blame game!

Actual the press isn't telling the truth, that's why there's been great defense of the Pope even from Non-Catholics.

@Lady

I think it would be helpful if you post the article here.

@ Enigma

the article is another topic, but how do I link it here?

I think it doesn't hurt to post it (or a summary of it) here ---- then at least the cases for both sides will be on this thread.

To link it, you can open the thread as if you want to read it, then copy the URL at the top and paste here.

Ok here's the article

Unlike the Roman papacy, in certain circles the New York Times still enjoys the presumption of authority. So when the front page carries a story headlined "Vatican Declined to Defrock U.S. Priest Who Abused Deaf Boys," people notice.

Written by Laurie Goodstein and published March 25, the thrust is twofold. First, that the Rev. Lawrence Murphy, a priest who abused children at St. John's School for the Deaf in Milwaukee from the 1950s to the 1970s, went unpunished. Father Murphy, she wrote categorically, "was never tried or disciplined by the church's own justice system."

This all feeds the kicker: "the effort to dismiss Father Murphy came to a sudden halt after the priest appealed to Cardinal Ratzinger for leniency." In other words, Murphy got off scot-free, and the cardinal looked the other way.

Ms. Goodstein cites internal church documents, which the Times posted online. The documents were provided by Jeff Anderson and Mike Finnegan. They are described as "lawyers for five men who have brought four lawsuits against the Archdiocese of Milwaukee."

What she did not tell readers is that Mr. Anderson isn't just any old lawyer. When it comes to suing the church, he is America's leading plaintiffs attorney. Back in 2002, he told the Associated Press that he'd won more than $60 million in settlements from the church, and he once boasted to a Twin Cities weekly that he's "suing the s--t out of them everywhere." Nor did the Times report another salient fact about Mr. Anderson: He's now trying to sue the Vatican in U.S. federal court.

.None of this makes Mr. Anderson wrong or unworthy of quoting. It does make him a much bigger player than the story disclosed. In fact, it's hard to think of anyone with a greater financial interest in promoting the public narrative of a church that takes zero action against abuser priests, with Pope Benedict XVI personally culpable.

Asked about the omissions in an email, Ms. Goodstein replied as follows: "Given the complexity of the Murphy case, and the relative brevity of my story, I don't think it is realistic for you to expect this story to get into treating other cases that these attorneys have handled."

Martin Nussbaum, a lawyer who is not involved in the Murphy case but who has defended other dioceses and churches in sexual abuse suits, emailed me four interesting letters sent to Murphy from three Wisconsin bishops. These documents are not among those posted online by the Times. They are relevant, however, because they refute the idea that Murphy went unpunished.

In fact, the letters from these bishops—three in 1993 and one in 1995, after fresh allegations of Murphy's misconduct—variously informed the priest that he was not to celebrate the sacraments in public, not to have any unsupervised contact with minors, and not to work in any parish religious education program.

It's accurate to say Murphy was never convicted by a church tribunal. It's also reasonable to argue (as I would) that Murphy should have been disciplined more. It is untrue, however, to suggest he was "never" disciplined. When asked if she knew of these letters, Ms. Goodstein did not directly answer, saying her focus was on what was "new," i.e., "the attempts by those same bishops to have Father Murphy laicized."

As for Rome, it did not get the case until 1996, when the archdiocese of Milwaukee informed the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, then headed by Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger. Back then, the CDF handled abuse cases when they involved a breach of confession (Murphy was accused of using the confessional to solicit boys). At that time, too, the only real option for reducing Murphy to the lay state was a church trial. And the bishops in Wisconsin did begin a trial.

Ms. Goodstein's original article said simply that Cardinal Ratzinger's deputy halted Murphy's trial after the priest sent the cardinal a letter saying he was dying and asking for clemency. A follow-up Times article last Thursday clarified that Rome came down the way it did because Murphy had shown "apparent good conduct" for the last 24 years, and "it would be difficult to try him" because "so much time [had] passed between the crimes and the trial."

Plus, his bishops had already stripped Murphy of his priestly faculties, the equivalent of taking a doctor's medical license. Does all this really suggest people callously looking the other way?

A few years later, when the CDF assumed authority over all abuse cases, Cardinal Ratzinger implemented changes that allowed for direct administrative action instead of trials that often took years. Roughly 60% of priests accused of sexual abuse were handled this way. The man who is now pope reopened cases that had been closed; did more than anyone to process cases and hold abusers accountable; and became the first pope to meet with victims. Isn't the more reasonable interpretation of all these events that Cardinal Ratzinger's experience with cases like Murphy's helped lead him to promote reforms that gave the church more effective tools for handling priestly abuse?

That's not to say that the press should be shy, even about Pope Benedict XVI's decisions as archbishop and cardinal. The Murphy case raises hard questions: why it took the archbishops of Milwaukee nearly two decades to suspend Murphy from his ministry; why innocent people whose lives had been shattered by men they are supposed to view as icons of Christ found so little justice; how bishops should deal with an accused clergyman when criminal investigations are inconclusive; how to balance the demands of justice with the Catholic imperative that sins can be forgiven. Oh, yes, maybe some context, and a bit of journalistic skepticism about the narrative of a plaintiffs attorney making millions off these cases.

That's still a story worth pursuing.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702304017404575165792228341212.html

There are several other articles like this one that calls the bluff of the NY Times, I will go dig them up, I hope I remember the websites.

Ah, please if they are very long a summary or extract and link might be enough oh! I no wan responsible for eating up of bandwith.

There's the link at the bottom of the page, and you asked for the article.

I never said that 1.1 billion people be charged with pedophilia. Let's not get moronic about this. Those guilty of it should be charged of it. and those institutions guilty of the coverup should be charged likewise.

mazaje:

Shut up!!!. . . .I repeat Zap the pope . . . . .

I will not comment further on your post, cos I see you're simply a F.O.O.L.

omo~fat:

Mr Bebrief,

Your reaction and responses are very telling.

Four people respond to your post. Two people respond (partly) to the substance of what you posted. Mr TBits even asked your opinion on one of your points. You chose to ignore those.

Instead, you chose to respond to the other two posts that didnt directly relate (in substance) to your post.

You really don't have much to say except fight and name-call.

That sir, says a lot about you.

You should have read my earlier post which answers the first comment:

bebrief:

Jesus died once, for our sins and is Risen, seated at the right hand of God. Don't you believe that?
The Pope is "the highest order of moral authority on earth" whom we see as the leader of the Church right down from St. Peter the apostle.

rotimy:

As a Catholic, I am not happy the way the Pope and his media managers handled the crisis! All the talk about the Western media ambushing the Church and demonising her is rubbish! Truly, the Vatican covered up some of these crimes and once again , we must come out to the open, admit our faults and have a stronger ways in dealing with these randy priests. what the press is writing is the truth, only the truth will set us free not pity party or blame game!

If you're truly a Catholic, you should have more understanding about how the Papal media works. The Pope does not need to exonerate himself from any crime, cos he is not guilty. He has already apologized on behalf of the church in his letter to the church of Ireland. What else do you expect of the Pope? I have said earlier that it is not right for anyone to abuse another, be you Clergy or Laity. But no one should suffer for another's crime.  If you have a proof that a priest has abused someone, then go report to the law enforcement agents, and stop dragging the church into all these.

@pastor AIO

Your anglican church is far worse than the catholic church.At least homosexuality is not legalised in the RCC like it is done in the anglican church

@pastor AIO

The link you pasted was about 4 yrs ago and we are talking about allegations that surfaced just last month,you really make me want to laugh.When was the documentary from the bbc finally aired and what came out of it.If the document was authentic why didn't the push up the case?

chukwudi44:

@pastor AIO

The link you pasted was about 4 yrs ago and we are talking about allegations that surfaced just last month,you really make me want to laugh.When was the documentary from the bbc finally aired and what came out of it.If the document was authentic why didn't the push up the case?

Ahh, I see. Time heals all wounds. Child abuse is okay if it was done over four years ago.

Pastor AIO:

another observation has come to my attention.  I've noticed that certain psychological profiles/types are drawn to certain professions.  Ie.  Many gays are drawn to the arts, like dancers, or fashion designers.  etc

and Many paedophiles seem drawn to catholicism.  

Or is it the other way round.  what is the connections between certain professions and psychology types.

You have raised a very important angle to the issue. Obviously this is no coincidence. I think it is not so difficult to figure out. The Catholic Church has a policy of celibacy for priests. What happens is people with sexual perversions like paedophilia join in the hope that it will help them deal with it. They see the priesthoood as a refuge that will shield them from their problem. Seminaries, of course, were not built to shut out people's problems and are no therapy centres. So we end up with paedophile priests.

mama-gee:

You're a retarded Spunk!
Are you daft . . .
Did you know it wasn't the Pope that abused those Children,
the Priest who actually did died about 11 years ago, you ignorant mofo.

@Topic

Sure, the endtime is near and people are damn sure to persecute everyone even those in the Church's authority. . .

God bless you.

Bebrief or whatever your call yourself this post makes you the BIGGEST I-D-I-O-T in NL.

What really are u blabbing about? are u trying to defend evil? on what ground are u calling the pope or the catholic church "moral voice remaining on earth" whats so moral about a pedophile church? Are u aware of the history of immorality in the catholic church?

You quoted your bishop as saying that the problem is only in the west i guess that bishop of yours is actually taking the footstep of your pope by denying the obvious! or will your bishop honestly swear that he is not aware of the atrocities the catholic priest are committing in catholic dominated east. atrocities ranging from sleeping with people wives, impregnating young girls and encouraging to abort, enforcing heavy levies on their poor members to out-rightly taking community lands and converting same to their own use. i think worst damage they have done so far is  destroying our customs and tradition and branding them paganism!

The catholic church crimes in Africa are not published because they still have a very strong hold on journalism in Africa but i bet you that one day the burble will burst! Useless organization that called it self a church!!

Guy! u should make your research before coming to NL to post trash I-D-I-O-T!

The issue here is the catholic church has placed the un-biblical burden of celibacy (no marriage) upon it's priest. This for centuries has been the major reason for the immorality that is well documented in the history of the catholic church . Many popes (talk less of priests) had fathered children and engage in immoral sex while they were pope (same goes for a lot of priests).  Some popes even fathered future popes e.g Pope Sergius III was father of  of Pope John XI . The popes are no different from ordinary men, they have desires like us all and their failures are no different from the failures of others. But the catch is if the burden of celibacy was not placed upon them, they will marry and perhaps be faithful Husbands , fathers and worshipers of the one true God (in spirit and in truth).
The word of God is no respecter of persons (all popes, GOs and religious leaders inclusive).  The truth and Judgment shall catch up with all un-repentant souls.  Pls stop according god-like status to a mere man. The pope is a Man. "Vicar of Christ"  is a silly and egoistic man made title unrecognized by the true and living God. If you have a genuine relationship with Jesus, you will know the truth about everyman been equal and you will not accord the pope a 'super human above sin status'; afterall the bible says Ps 25:14 The secret of the LORD is with them that fear him; and he will shew them his covenant.
@rotimi thanks for your honesty.