Ur illustration cant be applied here. The reason being that the biblical account about the second coming&Rapture isnt in line with what u just gave.Moreover it wouldnt be believed cus rapture story will not be told by man.Try another scenario to counter mine.

thehomer:

What are you trying to say here? How can this story be applied?

Consider this story.

I met a guy who said he was the true son of God who had come a second time and was told by God to start giving away his property and that of his family members since he was going to start the rapture in 7 days. He also advised for all those who heard his message to do the same. He then proceeded to give away the properties.

What do you think should be done here? Should we believe him and also give away our property or refer this guy for psychiatric evaluation?

If you met this guy would you also start giving away your property?

davidylan:



3. Assuming God did not make me with magic dust, how were YOU created?

Well, it's like this David: When a Mummy and Daddy love each other. . .

davidylan:

what problem has posed to how we use our voice?

The problems arise when surgery is required or when a tumor affects any of the organs along its path. It is simply an inefficient way of designing a connection.

davidylan:

why is this an issue?

The blind spot reduces the visual field. There are animals which do not have such a limitation.

davidylan:

What problem does this pose?

This is one of the causes of hernias in men requiring surgery for treatment.

Bastage:

And the Appendix, David?

What is that?

I mean, it must have a use if we're perfect. Admittedly mine burst and had to be removed, but if it was left in, what would it's benefits have been?

Hmm it seems your idea of "perfect creation" is that we really dont need an extra eye or ear, we dont need a liver that can regenerate itself, dont need that a second kidney, dont need a tail bone without which u cant lean back while sitting down, do not need a thyroid gland (once considered a vestigial organ like the appendix), do not need two lungs as you can function excellently well with just one . . .

Seriously?

Bastage:

Well, it's like this David: When a Mummy and Daddy love each other. . .

and before mummy and daddy? And before them? and the first man who ever walked came how? by magic dust?

thehomer:

The problems arise when surgery is required or when a tumor affects any of the organs along its path. It is simply an inefficient way of designing a connection.

hmmm actually so many problems are posed during surgery. For example, nicking the intestines (which you would agree are just perfect) would cause massive infections and possibly death. A jaw tumor can affect the voice box too without touching the nerves. See this example is just bizarre.

thehomer:

The blind spot reduces the visual field. There are animals which do not have such a limitation.

and how does this cause a disability to us?

thehomer:

This is one of the causes of hernias in men requiring surgery for treatment.

That's quite silly. Its not.

Where you going to call it a vestigial tail?

to an extent, more or less a remnant of an evolutionary step.

Are you suggesting humans are the product of evolution?

more of subjects of evolution.

Assuming God did not make me with magic dust, how were YOU created?

the guy is capable of doing anything!

toba:

your illustration cant be applied here. The reason being that the biblical account about the second coming&Rapture isnt in line with what u just gave.Moreover it wouldnt be believed cus rapture story will not be told by man.Try another scenario to counter mine.

What do you know about the second coming? For all we know it should have already occurred.

Kay 17:

yeah right in your mind! a being, you ve had no communication with, neither seen or heard. what is the difference between him and santa claus?

toba link=topic=432015.msg5997566#msg5997566 date=1272986206:

How are u so sure of that? if he had told u he communicated with the being or do communicate with the being, would u have believed?

I believe here you were requiring that Kay 17 should believe whatever someone was saying about their God just because that person believed it strongly.

Kay 17:

to an extent, more or less a remnant of an evolutionary step.

there is no fossil evidence of any such evolutionary step.

Kay 17:

more of subjects of evolution.

this is your own opinion. there is no corroborative evidence.

Kay 17:

the guy is capable of doing anything!

What is the answer to this question? How did the first man appear?

davidylan:

hmmm actually so many problems are posed during surgery. For example, nicking the intestines (which you would agree are just perfect) would cause massive infections and possibly death. A jaw tumor can affect the voice box too without touching the nerves. See this example is just bizarre.

You seem to deliberately miss the point. The point is that it is simply longer than it needs to be which is inefficient thereby increasing risk of damage during surgical procedures to adjacent organs e.g the thyroid.

davidylan:

and how does this cause a disability to us?

It doesn't have to be a disability. It is simply bad design when there are better designs out there.

davidylan:

That's quite silly. Its not.

What is silly here? The fact that the commonest hernias also pass through this route of descent of the testes?

thehomer:

What do you know about the second coming? For all we know it should have already occurred.

What ever i know/knew about rapture&second coming is relative to me,likewise others. One thing is commmon however, the biblical account of the second coming is absolutely conflicting to ur illustration.
Who told u or how do u know that the second coming should have taken place long ago?

But you accept Hebrew words creating matter and life? Science has countless of times disproven unsubstantiated myth of religion, religion in the face of helplessness comes round to justify our ignorance, fill in the gaps.

there is no fossil evidence of any such evolutionary step.

we have the hominids, we have countless links.

thehomer:

You seem to deliberately miss the point. The point is that it is simply longer than it needs to be which is inefficient thereby increasing risk of damage during surgical procedures to adjacent organs e.g the thyroid.

I got the point perfectly. You're the one seeking a problem where there is none. Ok the nerve is longer than it needs to be but WHY is that a problem? We need only one lung or kidney to function perfectly but we've got two . . . would that also be a problem?

During surgery, lymphatic vessels and other surrounding nerves are at more risk of damage than the nerves in question . . . that is why you spend yrs training before you become an ENT!

thehomer:

It doesn't have to be a disability. It is simply bad design when there are better designs out there.

This is just nonsense. Bad design in what sense? Does the blind spot prevent you from doing anything?

thehomer:

What is silly here? The fact that the commonest hernias also pass through this route of descent of the testes?

hmmm there are billions of men on earth, what percentage of them develop hernias just because of a descended testes? Ridiculous.

[quote author=thehomer link=topic=432015.msg6000
I believe here you were requiring that Kay 17 should believe whatever someone was saying about their God just because that person believed it strongly.
[quote][/quote]
What gave u such an erroneous beliefs about my post? Couldnt u have known that i asked Kay 17 a question about believing the guy?

I got the point perfectly. You're the one seeking a problem where there is none. Ok the nerve is longer than it needs to be but WHY is that a problem? We need only one lung or kidney to function perfectly but we've got two . . . would that also be a problem?

During surgery, lymphatic vessels and other surrounding nerves are at more risk of damage than the nerves in question . . . that is why you spend yrs training before you become an ENT!

the perfect design is required, the nerve is a longer than it needs to be. the blind spot is a flaw. the eye isn't as perfect as it is supposed to be.

Kay 17:

the perfect design is required, the nerve is a longer than it needs to be. the blind spot is a flaw. the eye isn't as perfect as it is supposed to be.

this makes no sense.

1. The nerve is longer than it "needs" to be . . . sorry but who determines how long a nerve should be? Would that person also be worried that we have an extra lung or kidney that is virtually a waste? What problem does this long nerve pose? NONE biologically!

2. the blind spot is a flaw of what? What is the problem with the blind spot? Does it prevent you from walking, running, playing sports, driving? What exactly?

3. What would the "perfect" eye be like if you were to construct it? Why do animals that we allegedly descended from have far better eyes than we do? Isnt adaptation all about perfection?

Really are these folks thinking at all?

davidylan:

I got the point perfectly. You're the one seeking a problem where there is none. Ok the nerve is longer than it needs to be but WHY is that a problem? We need only one lung or kidney to function perfectly but we've got two . . . would that also be a problem?

During surgery, lymphatic vessels and other surrounding nerves are at more risk of damage than the nerves in question . . . that is why you spend yrs training before you become an ENT!

Nope. Lymphatic vessels will pretty much always be damaged in surgeries reaching the muscle layer and they are not as important to preserve during surgery as nerves. But in surgeries of that part of the neck, after the blood vessels, the nerves are next most important structures.'

The fact that is too long is a sign of poor design.

davidylan:

This is just nonsense. Bad design in what sense? Does the blind spot prevent you from doing anything?

Bad design in the sense that it could be better. In fact better designs are out there.

davidylan:

hmmm there are billions of men on earth, what percentage of them develop hernias just because of a descended testes? Ridiculous.

From wikipedia

An inguinal hernia (pronounced /ˈɪŋɡwɨnəl ˈhɜrniə/) is a protrusion of abdominal-cavity contents through the inguinal canal. They are very common (lifetime risk 27% for men, 3% for women[1]), and their repair is one of the most frequently performed surgical  operations.

You can ask your doctor it is one of the most commonly performed surgical operations.
So how ridiculous is it again?

davidylan:

this makes no sense.

1. The nerve is longer than it "needs" to be . . . sorry but who determines how long a nerve should be?

The function of the nerve should determine how long it should be. Also, I just pointed out to you that it is easily affected there by tumors of any of the other organs around it.

davidylan:

Would that person also be worried that we have an extra lung or kidney that is virtually a waste? What problem does this long nerve pose? NONE biologically!

The kidney serves multiple purposes besides, as you age, kidney function reduces so it is better to hedge your bet in that case. Sure you have two lungs but you should see patients with one lung or even heavy smokers with two lungs how able are they to carry out their daily activities?

davidylan:

2. the blind spot is a flaw of what? What is the problem with the blind spot? Does it prevent you from walking, running, playing sports, driving? What exactly?

It is poorly designed.

davidylan:

3. What would the "perfect" eye be like if you were to construct it?

I would consider e.g an octopus eye for starters.

davidylan:

Why do animals that we allegedly descended from have far better eyes than we do? Isnt adaptation all about perfection?

Animals such as? Adaptation is not about perfection it is adjusting to fit your environment.

davidylan:

Really are these folks thinking at all?

Some other folks seem to actively refuse to think.

toba:

What gave u such an erroneous beliefs about my post? Couldnt u have known that i asked Kay 17 a question about believing the guy?

You were asking him to believe someone's claim of hearing from God. Why would you not believe another person hearing from God?

toba:

What ever i know/knew about rapture&second coming is relative to me,likewise others. One thing is commmon however, the biblical account of the second coming is absolutely conflicting to your illustration.
Who told u or how do u know that the second coming should have taken place long ago?

Jesus told me. Who told you that it has not yet occurred?

If it is just relative to you why should I believe you?

The biblical account conflicts with itself too. So who should I believe?

The job was done.

I cannot remember the verse
but I know you know this word in the bible that says :
A thousand years is like a day to God and a day is like a thousand years to God
form an inspiration I Got actually in the olden days or should u say in the creation of the world there date and time prediction was inaccurate compared to modern science prerequisite...
now to cur this short
the creation of the world actually took from my own point of view 6000 years with 1000 years of rest..
putting together 7milleniums so
you can reconsider...
in the Bible people lived longer that people of now so counting days wasn't an interesting to them...