hopefulLandlord:


More like Christians waiting and hoping, I doubt any atheist thought something reasonable would come from OP

if you remember correctly, I never promised any atheist a proof, and neither did I invite any to the thread. You can't find anything in the topic or in my posts that suggests I did. so whatever it was you thought of the thread is grossly immaterial.

awesomeJ:

Wasn't a justification. You were trying to present Yahweh as a blood thirsty God, and you definitely needed the clarification.

I don't need clarification, I'm sure a Muslim can clarify Allah's

It seems I need to spell it out for you again

1. The person that started this convo said Islam isn't true because Allah gave apostasy laws and ordered the killing of certain categories of people

2. I challenged that claim by telling him Yahweh in the OT actually did the same exact thing. He ordered lands to be taken and inhabitants to be put to the sword, including infants a because they didn't believe in Yahweh, he gave the Israelites apostasy laws too

Conclusion: IF Yahweh doing 2. couldn't falsify Yahweh, then 1. shouldn't falsify Allah


Let me use an analogy

Let's assume I said the below

1. "Your sister is not a true female cuz she has long hair, look at my own sister with short hair; having long hair disqualifies you from being a true female"

you then reply with the below

2. Your sister at some point in the past actually had long hair, I have pics of your sister in long hair and there are many such pics on the internet too. Are you saying your sister wasn't a true female when she had long hair and became true female after cutting it off?


I either have to admit my calling your sister a "false" female because of her hair is not valid OR admit my own sister was not a true female when she had long hair


I'm not here to get clarifications, as that's beside the point




I've oversimplified this as much as I can so I would simply give up if you still don't get it after this

hopefulLandlord:

You have time though. Thumbs up for that. Every religious makes excuses for their god. The reason why they are silent, why they don't answer prayers etc. When it comes to an opposing religion, every excuse made becomes proof the other doesn't exist. It's really laughable.

awesomeJ:

You on the other hand man need to employ the full percentage of your neurons, quote the scripture where Jesus said none of his disciples would die. If you could read and comprehend, you'd have found that he wasn't specific about whom it was that wouldn't taste death.

I assure you that there are some here who will not die until they have seen the Son of Man come as King.”
Matthew 16:28 GNT

Even if he wasn't specific about who the "some" were, we all know that all Jesus' disciples as well as all those existing then were mortals and there is no way any of them will still be alive today waiting for Jesus' second coming.

Seun, you cannot convince religious fanatics that things just happen without any interference from God, it's a psychological thing and religion is a big precursor of delusion...

The universe is simple and very understandable, things happen inline with time and no supernatural power interfere

hopefulLandlord:


He ordered lands to be taken and inhabitants to be put to the sword, including infants a because they didn't believe in Yahweh,

Good thing that your own argument and analogy make sense, compared to that dude with rice and yam. Quite a relief.

Just the above part of your post though. Can you give the reference to a place where God ordered the killing of infants and even anyone for that matter just because they didn't believe in Him?

festwiz:
You have time though. Thumbs up for that. Every religious makes excuses for their god. The reason why they are silent, why they don't answer prayers etc. When it comes to an opposing religion, every excuse made becomes proof the other doesn't exist. It's really laughable.

Do you even have faith to begin with? So how can you be sure prayers don't get answered? You've never been on a plane, you only gaze at them at the far sky where their movements appear slower than a speeding car's, then you're drawing the conclusion that planes don't move fast. Learn about prayer first, or better still ask people who are more informed.

chemystery:

I assure you that there are some here who will not die until they have seen the Son of Man come as King.”
Matthew 16:28 GNT

Even if he wasn't specific about who the "some" were, we all know that all Jesus' disciples as well as all those existing then were mortals and there is no way any of them will still be alive today waiting for Jesus' second coming.

No one is saying they're still alive, which is not totally impossible. The point is, those folks to whom Jesus referred most likely left this earth without dying as it was Enoch and Elisha. So as long as the story with Elisha is what we Christian believe, we don't see any way in which He has disappointed regarding the time of His return. Cos contrary to your interpretation of that scripture, Jesus didn't specify any time for his return, as a matter of fact, He actually said He didn't know the time. So if that scripture you're quoting meant what you're interpreting it to mean, those there with Him to whom He had earlier said that the time for his return was unknown would have likely raised the question.

legislatively:
Seun, you cannot convince religious fanatics that things just happen without any interference from God, it's a psychological thing and religion is a big precursor of delusion...

The universe is simple and very understandable, things happen inline with time and no supernatural power interfere

So in your own eye, you're smarter than the likes of Einstein, who having learnt so much about our universe, concluded that it must have been designed?

awesomeJ:

No one is saying they're still alive, which is not totally impossible. The point is, those folks to whom Jesus referred most likely left this earth without dying as it was Enoch and Elisha. So as long as the story with Elisha is what we Christian believe, we don't see any way in which He has disappointed regarding the time of His return. Cos contrary to your interpretation of that scripture, Jesus didn't specify any time for his return, as a matter of fact, he actually said he didn't know the time So if that scripture you're quoting meant what you're interpreting it to mean, those there with Him to whom He had earlier said that the time for his return was unknown would have likely raised the question.

Let me get this straight,Christians say Jesus is God and that means that everything God possesses Jesus possesses, now God is supposedly omniscient and if I am tight that means he knows[b]everything[/b],the only LOGICAL conclusion we can make of this is this

1. JESUS IS NOT GOD WHICH EXPLAINS WHY HE IS NOY OMNISCIENT
2 JESUS IS GOD BUT HE IS NOT OMNISCIENT HENCE GOD IS NOT OMNISCIENT

these are the only reasonable explanation I can think of u can't tell me Jesus is God and so is supposedly omniscient but DOESN'T KNOW the time of his second coming

darkchild64:


Let me get this straight,Christians say Jesus is God and that means that everything God possesses Jesus possesses, now God is supposedly omniscient and if I am tight that means he knows[b]everything[/b],the only LOGICAL conclusion we can make of this is this

1. JESUS IS NOT GOD WHICH EXPLAINS WHY HE IS NOY OMNISCIENT
2 JESUS IS GOD BUT HE IS NOT OMNISCIENT HENCE GOD IS NOT OMNISCIENT

these are the only reasonable explanation I can think of u can't tell me Jesus is God and so is supposedly omniscient but DOESN'T KNOW the time of his second coming

Obiora is Eze's only son. Eze is the King, does that make Obiora King? At least by prospects. People would greet Eze "Your Highness" would they be wrong in greeting Obiora in the same manner?
Jesus came to die on the cross, does it mean that it was Yahweh that was nailed to the cross? No.
In attributes they are the same as God. But they are still different personalities- in terms of roles- that make up the Trinity.

If they were exactly the same in every sense, why would Jesus yet pray to God the Father? Why would he need God the Father to give Him a name that's higher than all others. The details about when the Son returns is only to be known by God- this time, God the Father specifically.

awesomeJ:
Finally was this couple. Theirs was most overwhelming.
Got married in 2013, and despite much expectations, there were no babies. So in 2014, the husband suggested that they went for medical check up (you probably don't think Christians do).

After all the examinations, they found two fundamental issues wrong with the wife's reproductive system:
1. Her ovaries were not functioning.
2. Her womb was too small at 5 inches versus 6-7 inches that women should have. So it was too small, it wouldn't hold a baby.

So basically, all hope was lost for them medically, if there were any ways around it, I'm sure the doctors would have informed them, but surely, there wasn't.

So the couple took a step of faith, and emptied their bank accounts to the church, and by faith they exchanged the doctors' report for that seed.

Then in 2016, During one of the combined services at the redemption camp, Daddy Adeboye told people to pray that if there was any part of their bodies that wasn't functioning well, God should fix, and if it isn't fixable, God who has the spares should replace, she prayed that prayer, and months after in February 2018, They were standing in front of the congregation with their bouncing set of twins.

The womb that was measured to be too small to hold one baby held two -a boy and a girl safely for nine months.
Mind you, their prior experience validates the doctors' report, so don't bring the argument about doctors being wrong. plus measuring womb size and detecting nonfunctional ovaries are not things doctors can be easily wrong about.

It didn't end there.

After delivery the doctors examined the girl, and found that she had a low sugar level, the husband used the anointing oil on her and an anointed handkerchief as well, 2 hours later, the sugar level was normal. The baby boy was also said to have Jaundice, the husband used the anointing oil and handkerchief on him as well, and 3 hours later, the Jaundice was gone from the boy?

Tell me Seun, how would you question such a testimony?

don't get Me wrong I am a christian but I don't subscribe to such beliefs simply because they are unbiblical

darkchild64:


Let me get this straight,Christians say Jesus is God and that means that everything God possesses Jesus possesses, now God is supposedly omniscient and if I am tight that means he knows[b]everything[/b],the only LOGICAL conclusion we can make of this is this

1. JESUS IS NOT GOD WHICH EXPLAINS WHY HE IS NOY OMNISCIENT
2 JESUS IS GOD BUT HE IS NOT OMNISCIENT HENCE GOD IS NOT OMNISCIENT

these are the only reasonable explanation I can think of u can't tell me Jesus is God and so is supposedly omniscient but DOESN'T KNOW the time of his second coming

look at this: your human self is divided into three your spirit ,soul and body does that make u 3 persons or one

awesomeJ:


Obiora is Eze's only son. Eze is the King, does that make Obiora King? At least by prospects. People would greet Eze "Your Highness" would they be wrong in greeting Obiora in the same manner?
Jesus came to die on the cross, does it mean that it was Yahweh that was nailed to the cross? No.
In attributes they are the same as God. But they are still different personalities- in terms of roles- that make up the Trinity.

If they were exactly the same in every sense, why would Jesus yet pray to God the Father? Why would he need God the Father to give Him a name that's higher than all others. The details about when the Son returns is only to be known by God- this time, God the Father specifically.

BEAUTIFUL,JUST BEAUTIFUL

so let me ask you a very simple question,answers yes or no

IS JESUS OMNISCIENT ?

and @op it is clear you don't really study your bible you seem to be living from hand to mouth spiritually and meditatively

hadow:


don't get Me wrong I am a christian but I don't subscribe to such beliefs simply because they are unbiblical

What beliefs exactly?

hadow:
and @op it is clear you don't really study your bible you seem to be living from hand to mouth spiritually and meditatively

And you know this because?

darkchild64:


BEAUTIFUL,JUST BEAUTIFUL

so let me ask you a very simple question,answers yes or no

IS JESUS OMNISCIENT ?

Yes, he is OMNISCIENT at least with regards to everything that pertains to us humans.

awesomeJ:

Yes, he is OMNISCIENT at least with regards to everything that pertains to us humans.

The way some Christians talk sometimes leaves you bewildered and asking if this is an adult talking or a baby

darkchild64:


The way some Christians talk sometimes leaves you bewildered and asking if this is an adult talking or a baby

Meaning?
So now an answer comes out different from what you want, and you want to call names. JESUS IS OMNISCIENT. If you wanna believe otherwise, suit yourself.

Meanwhile, other than the timing of His return, what else do you think He doesn't know? What if he actually chose while on earth not to ask the Father about it? Or what if, now that He's back in heaven, he already knows the time? Does your argument then still hold.

Someone knows everything but one, and that one thing, he has either learnt now, and can learn if he so chooses. That by all standards qualifies Him as OMNISCIENT.

Except you want to point out something else you think he may not know.

awesomeJ:

Meaning?
So now an answer comes out different from what you want, and you want to call names. JESUS IS OMNISCIENT. If you wanna believe otherwise, suit yourself.

what I wanted from you was a simple YES or NO telling me that Jesus omniscient pertains to us humans is unreasonable

Someone who is omniscient KNOWS EVERYTHING,that is the definition of omniscience,now if Jesus DOESN'T KNOW something even if it is just one thing that he DOESN'T KNOW then he is not omniscient

hopefulLandlord:
This is gonna be disappointing, as always

You didn't lie bro


What a let down

hadow:



look at this: your human self is divided into three your spirit ,soul and body does that make u 3 persons or one

And imagine darkchild64, if your body were to pray to your spirit or soul, are they praying to the same, you?

budaatum:

And imagine darkchild64, if your body were to pray to your spirit or soul, are they praying to the same, you?

d to weak me bro,christians day try sha,for me anything that doesn't make sense to me I will say it doesn't make sense,I don't care if it is sacrosanct or not,the holy Trinity stuff is funny

darkchild64:


d to weak me bro,christians day try sha,for me anything that doesn't make sense to me I will say it doesn't make sense,I don't care if it is sacrosanct or not,the holy Trinity stuff is funny

But you must find it in your heart to please forgive them, for they know nought about what they are talking about. Least they don't in this thread.

Wow. This is deeper than rap. So...
- You have proof of gods existence.
-It is only for seun.
-It will cost him.
Okay... Dont blame him for not taking you serious. Your testimonies sound too familiar for my liking. My brain tells me you are trying to get a cheap buck. Think bigger. My 2 cents.

darkchild64:


what I wanted from you was a simple YES or NO telling me that Jesus omniscient pertains to us humans is unreasonable

Someone who is omniscient KNOWS EVERYTHING,that is the definition of omniscience,now if Jesus DOESN'T KNOW something even if it is just one thing that he DOESN'T KNOW then he is not omniscient

And I have put it to you that He surely knows EVERYTHING. The one thing you're holding on to, he must have now learnt. Make sense now?

awesomeJ:


Good thing that your own argument and analogy make sense, compared to that dude with rice and yam. Quite a relief.

Just the above part of your post though. Can you give the reference to a place where God ordered the killing of infants and even anyone for that matter just because they didn't believe in Him?

Numbers 21:2-3; Deuteronomy 20:17; Joshua 6:17, 21
1 Samuel 15; Numbers 31

hopefulLandlord:


Numbers 21:2-3; Deuteronomy 20:17; Joshua 6:17, 21
1 Samuel 15; Numbers 31

Perhaps you didn't get the question right. I didn't ask for references to where killings happened. I said where God ordered that people or infants be killed simply because they didn't believe in Him. That was a claim you made in one of your posts.

Num 21:2-3- The Canaanite king defeated. This part doesn't eve. come close, because God didn't even order a killing at all. Read it well please. The King fought against Israel, and captured some of them as prisoners. Then Israel prayed to God for a victory against him, and they got it. Isn't it the Almightiness of God and his safe watch his people that this story highlights, rather than what you're referencing it to, to which it holds no connection?

It must have been a tough search for you man.
When I asked for reference, I didn't expect you to ever find any, because I know the God I serve.

You know your dad by nature dislikes alcohol, so much that even if he was to be paid to take it, he'd rather pay to not take it. Someone out of his own misconception is then making claims on his sight of your father taking alcohol. You'd tell him to bring proofs knowing fully well that he'd never find any. Why? Cos your experience with your father is REAL to you, and not just some fairy tale.

awesomeJ:

Perhaps you didn't get the question right. I didn't ask for references to where killings happened. I said where God ordered that people or infants be killed simply because they didn't believe in Him. That was a claim you made in one of your posts.

Num 21:2-3- The Canaanite king defeated. This part doesn't eve. come close, because God didn't even order a killing at all. Read it well please. The King fought against Israel, and captured some of them as prisoners. Then Israel prayed to God for a victory against him, and they got it. Isn't it the Almightiness of God and his safe watch his people that this story highlights, rather than what you're referencing it to, to which it holds no connection?

I'm sure apologists know better than you that's cooking up tales

https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/2010006

https://www.blueletterbible.org/faq/don_stewart/don_stewart_1382.cfm