PapaBrowne:

Shows that all humans have tendencies for corruption, whether in Africa or USA, Europe or Asia.
The difference however is that some countries have in place systems that effectively check corrupt practices.

pro01:

Exactly! Wish the gullible masses knew that. It makes no sense to rejoice over dubious tokenisms such as the Ibori charade and Ogbulafor soap opera. Instead, let them FIGHT for the entrenchment of institutional mechanisms for an effective and impartial war on corruption. All humans have the natural tendency to gain competitive advantage via illegal/corrupt means. Only an institutionalized system can neutralize these innate proclivities on a mass scale - thereby ensuring collective 'good behaviour'.

Ujujoan:

The institutionalization you are talking about is a gradual process. One that cannot be achieved without making an example of the[b] conspicuously corrupt individuals![/b] If you weren't so daft, you'd know that! 

Ujujoan:

The institutionalization you are talking about is a gradual process. One that cannot be acheived without making an example of the conspicously corrupt individuals! If you weren't so daft, you'd know that!  

pro01:

Exactly! Wish the gullible masses knew that. It makes no sense to rejoice over dubious tokenisms such as the Ibori charade and Ogbulafor soap opera. Instead, let them FIGHT for the entrenchment of institutional mechanisms for an effective and impartial war on corruption. All humans have the natural tendency to gain competitive advantage via illegal/corrupt means. Only an institutionalized system can neutralize these innate proclivities on a mass scale - thereby ensuring collective 'good behaviour'.

lagerwhenindoubt:

True, True and True that, but[b] institutions are simply the foundation that determine how the system should work[/b]. It requires a strong POLITICAL WILL to ensure that the same penalties for working outside the institution is met on all and sundry. Yes make an example of Ibori and also put Tinubu, Odili, PHCN Officials, Ajaokuta Steel Committees, Obasanjo etc. I agree it is a gradual process but if the process of corruption is moving faster than the process of de-corruption, then there will hardly be a time when the levels of corruption will become insignificant enough to allow the institutional framework work the way it is supposed to

pro01:

I agree with the bolded parts. Indeed, the idea of "gradual process" in the fight against corruption does not hold water. There will never be sufficient political will to bring about an institutionalization of processes - no society has ever 'gradually' evolved to a state of development. Development is almost always ignited by a revolution, not an evolution. The USA and other Western/developed societies went through the phase of massive corruption and underdevelopment that we are in now, true, but they transcended that phase through the revolutionary efforts of both the masses and a courageous set of selfless leaders. In the case of Nigeria, since there is an acute shortage of courageous leaders that are willing to commit 'class suicide' by selflessly fighting corruption and institutionalizing good governance, the masses SHOULD AS A MATTER OF NECESSITY take the bull by the horns and force a peoples' revolution. ONLY this can root out corruption and set us on the path of development. All this 'gradual process' nonsense would never work; at least not in our life time. We can only talk of 'gradual process' to development AFTER the institutionalization of systems and process has been instituted. Examples like Singapore and Malaysia readily come to mind: how many years of "gradual process" did it take them to achieve First World status and virtually eradicate corruption? Less than a decade. Only the lazy, timid and gullible Nigerian masses would accept "gradual process" and prefer to wallow in their suffering.

agitator:

"Who will bell the cat"
Even the police and military men/women, especially the junior officers suffering the same fate are the people a few officers will order and they will start killing the masses.  Most times I don't know if to feel pity or hatred for them, while overhearing their complains.

pro01:

That's the unfortunate situation. I do not pity the masses at all; after all, every country has the leadership it deserves. All the lazy and gullible masses know how to do is to sheepishly join the orchestrated, hare-brained, and ultimately short-lived jubilation anytime a random Tafa or Alams or Ibori or Lucky Igbinedion gets a 'slap on the wrist' for falling out with the powers that be. Little do they know that the joke is on them (i.e. the masses). When they are ready to end corruption and bring about good government they know EXACTLY what to do. Pitiable lot; maybe Angel Gabriel will come down from Heaven to 'bell the cat' for them.

pro01:

I thought I warned you to stop stalking me like a star-struck lunatic; I can't stand the obnoxious stench emanating from your putrid womanliness (which, by the way no number of sanitary pads can conceal). Please go find a (doubtful) cure for your terminal venereal disease and let me be. In the likely event that you do not find a cure, save yourself the misery: hang yourself.

lagerwhenindoubt:

True, True and True that, but institutions are simply the foundation that determine how the system should work. It requires a strong POLITICAL WILL to ensure that the same penalties for working outside the institution is met on all and sundry. Yes make an example of Ibori and also put Tinubu, Odili, PHCN Officials, Ajaokuta Steel Committees, Obasanjo etc. I agree it is a gradual process but if the process of corruption is moving faster than the process of de-corruption, then there will hardly be a time when the levels of corruption will become insignificant enough to allow the institutional framework work the way it is supposed to

Seun:

A lot of stuff on reddit misunderstands the relationships between wealth, power, and influence. For starters, all the above three are always and have always been inter-related, and probably always will be. And that might not always be a bad thing: those who have risen to high levels of wealth are often pretty smart, and surprisingly often exceptionally honest. Those who rise to high levels of influence usually have some pretty good insight and talent in their area of expertise. Those who have acquired a lot of power tend to be good at accomplishing things that lots of people want to see happen.

None of which is purely democratic, nor even purely meritocratic, but there is a certain dose of both kind of baked into the cake: stuff like wealth or family connections only gets you so far in modern, developed, and relatively open and transparent societies such as the US. And while that can be pretty far by normal standards, at some point sunlight does shine through any crack, and outright robbery or complete incompetence is difficult to sustain indefinitely.

But there is an awful lot of low-level waste, patronage, and corruption that happens both in the private and in the public sector.

Without going ideological, the private sector in a free-ish market has a more immediate system of checks and balances if only because you have to actually persuade the end users to keep buying your stuff for the price you're charging: if it's no good, or if you are grossly over-charging, your customers will tend to catch on sooner or later.

OAM4J:

So the leadership is corrupt, the followers are lazy, gullible, may be more corrupt than the leadership. Hence the people revolution you advocated for is unrealistic and you have no room for gradual process; what other option do you have or is Nigeria doomed?

Corruption isnt really a bad thing but you have to be good at what you do.
Just like Aganga said about banks- there are bad banks in Every country and not Nigeria alone.

Its the style in which most  Nigerian politicians do things, just slow and archaic- stealing money directly from the treasury/ Government funds- Why do that?

As a politician there is already priority and connections over common people. That should be enough to get an Oil deal, Lime, Gold, Cement, private electric company, or steel factories and such. Theres so much money to be made in Nigeria without stealing from government funds.

pro01:

. When they are ready to end corruption and bring about good government they know EXACTLY what to do. Pitiable lot; maybe Angel Gabriel will come down from Heaven to 'bell the cat' for them.

paddy_lo:

[b]u hit the nail right on the head. . .thats why i cannot stand the likes of ogbulafor,who will form fake companies and award fake contracts to steal from govt

Why not form a real company,use your influence to get real contracts,execute it well
in the process hire Nigerians. . and before u know it your company will grow,u list it on the stock exchange and make more ppl rich

Thats how countries like india,indonesia south korea and so on did it
and thats why i have always liked obasanjos style. .

Under Obasanjo
Refineries were sold to cronies yes,today they would have been producing at full capacity
but it was cancelled by the inept yar a dull

Power companies were to be privatized and sold to cronies yes,now we would have been moving forward
but it was again stalled by the inept yar adull
NIPP same thing,NITEL sale same thing,Transcorp,Same thing
so we move around in circles,while other nations move ahead. .

Also Nigerians cant seem to understand that the more u keep these companies under govt control,the less money Govt will allocate to education,health or security
because they will have to keep spending money on power,NITEL salaries,TAM for refineries every yr with nothing to show. .

so yes our ppl are clueless,The lazy crooks that prefer to steal with no work deceive them and they say alleluyah
[/b]

agitator:

I will disagree with you on some points
1. the 'yar adull' only reversed it after more than six years of inaction. Licenses were approved for so many refineries and yet not was done, not less than 10 (can't remember the actual number)

2. Most Nigerian will appreciate the companies to be privatized, but antecedents have proved that they end up milking the people without any improvements.  If PHCN is privatized be rest assured that the one and only Agitator will sue them to bankruptcy 

3. Nitel bought by Transcorp wasn't functional, in fact it was even going down with all their already existing base stations and infrastructure.

1. the 'yar adull' only reversed it after more than six years of inaction. Licenses were approved for so many refineries and yet not was done, not less than 10 (can't remember the actual number)

I am talking about the 4 refineries sold to Femi Otedola and Dangote. . .
Now u may dis-agree with the sale,but what has happened since then?

Billions of dollars spent by NNPC,still the refineries are operating below capacity
what this means is corrupt NNPC officials are feeding fat,while that money that could have been used to build schools or hospitals goes to private accounts

If those Refineries had been sold like planned. . then NNPC would not have spent those monies,and another avenue for GOVT officials to steal your money would have been closed
I dont know why this is so hard for Nigerians to understand. . 

PS Multiply it to other areas i raised

paddy_lo:

[color=#000099][b]I am talking about the 4 refineries sold to Femi Otedola and Dangote. . .
Now u may dis-agree with the sale,but what has happened since then?