superhumanist:
You asked for something and I gave it to you.

You werent asked

superhumanist:
Why are you complaining? Shows that you are not honest.

There's nothing that does so much harm as good intentions
Your impetuous action has now cramped vaxx's style

MuttleyLaff:
You werent asked

There's nothing that does so much harm as good intentions
Your impetuous action has now cramped vaxx's style

Keep quiet. This has nothing to do with Vaxx.

Ogbeni, just address the bulletpoint that you were given after you clearly asked for it.

superhumanist:
Keep quiet. This has nothing to do with Vaxx.

Ogbeni, just address the bulletpoint that you were given after you clearly asked for it.

Except straight from the horse's mouth, no can do.
Certainly and absolutely not from the sideline

MuttleyLaff:
Except straight from the horse's mouth, no can do.
Certainly and absolutely not from the sideline

Nonsense.

superhumanist:
Nonsense.

"Calmness and humility will get you to the kings table"
- superhumanist ©

vaxx:
You should not have go thru this section, it exposes the essence. Of Christianity..... No,they were brainwashed and manipulate..the Portuguese were the first Europeans to arrive the shores of Nigeria via the Atlantic. According to history. The Portuguese brought Christianity with them but were unable to successfully plant Christianity because of their involvement in slave trade. The actual intent behind their voyage was more in the interest of slave business, than it was for missionary goals and objectives.

ok

Most of the Portuguese slave traders took Nigerian slaves to be resold in the Americas and parts of Europe. Hence, they were not committed to missionary work. So it s this enlave Nigeria that were brought back to us after slavery was abolished in the west that aid the envagelism.You see the likes of ajayi crowther that was educated in Sierra lone and the rest

ok

The land called Nigeria now was never backward as the west may made you think. I can even argue we are more civilized than our colonial master in many ways but that will be another day.discussion.

civilized by what education or schools?
Do you realize that the Europeans were already having standard universities long before the 15th century at the time of their first interaction with Nigerians?

This former slave missionaries were sent all over Africa to preach Christianity while giving feedback to their white boss . To this very day many African minds still view Jesus as a white blue eyed , blonde haired handsome looking. If you go many houses in Africa you will see this picture on the walls of their houses. You see the brainwashing now as it is still common in Nigeria.

I agree with you on this, but it still do not dispute the fact that the bible have superior concept about life in general than what traditional religions of Africa and the world have presented. Even till today, pastors do misinterprete bible to brainwash church members but that do not disqualify the scriptures

Our fore parents were told that they were born in sin and they had to repent. Land was stolen in that way. Masses were convinced that that real happiness is in heaven and life on earth was a toil. This make them owing acres of land.


If you want to know how Christianity enter Europe thru the Romans. Go and leari the historical war Saxon wars? It will open your mind.

I'm aware of all these, but they still do not disqualify the bible

paxonel:

civilized by what education or schools?
Do you realize that the Europeans were already having standard universities long before the 15th century at the time of their first interaction with Nigerians?
I agree with you on this, but it still do not dispute the fact that the bible have superior concept about life in general than what traditional religions of Africa and the world have presented. Even till today, pastors do misinterprete bible to brainwash church members but that do not disqualify the scriptures
I'm aware of all these, but they still do not disqualify the bible

what is civilization?A civilization is generally defined as an advanced state of human society containing highly developed forms of government, culture, industry, and common social norms.from (An online dictionary). Civilization is not measure by formal education which university take a part.

Civilization is an advance form of society norm. This is very much visible in what is called Nigeria before the arrival of the Europeans. We have a standardized and well organized form of governance.

Formal education in which you talk about was a late cormer. People have been learning and acquiring skills in different profession before the white came.for example, there are Goldsmiths, clothing production, wood carving etc... Formal education was just a compliment. Just like how the first form of formal hospital start in Egypt before it was later adopt by the west. as said earlier, I can argue that we are more civilized than them in some vital sector before they arrived. But I will hold on that argument for now.

There is no indication that shows flawless evidence that biblical passage or verses are more Superior to IFA traditional teaching, it is just an affirmation that is accepted on brainwashing. Have you study the traditional faith without any form of bias. I will obliged you to learn before you come into conclusion.


And furthermore, being a Christian doesn’t mean you are on a journey to discover the truth about the world and that your search for truth has led you to accept Christian doctrine as the best, most coherent and most logical explanation. Instead, it usually means that you have chosen to accept the Christian dogma unreservedly for one reason or another (it may be due to your family and cultural upbringing, you may have had some sort of “spiritual” experience, etc.) and you are now compelled to defend that dogma against any evidence that contradicts it. You are just an apologetic and a fundamentalist friend.

vaxx:
what is civilization?A civilization is generally defined as an advanced state of human society containing highly developed forms of government, culture, industry, and common social norms.from (An online dictionary). Civilization is not measure by formal education which university take a part.

Civilization is an advance form of society norm. This is very much visible in what is called Nigeria before the arrival of the Europeans. We have a standardized and well organized form of governance.

Formal education in which you talk about was a late cormer. People have been learning and acquiring skills in different profession before the white came.for example, there are Goldsmiths, clothing production, wood carving etc... Formal education was just a compliment. Just like how the first form of formal hospital start in Egypt before it was later adopt by the west. as said earlier, I can argue that we are more civilized than them in some vital sector before they arrived. But I will hold on that argument for now.

There is no indication that shows flawless evidence that biblical passage or verses are more Superior to IFA traditional teaching, it is just an affirmation that is accepted on brainwashing. Have you study the traditional faith without any form of bias. I will obliged you to learn before you come into conclusion.


And furthermore, being a Christian doesn’t mean you are on a journey to discover the truth about the world and that your search for truth has led you to accept Christian doctrine as the best, most coherent and most logical explanation. Instead, it usually means that you have chosen to accept the Christian dogma unreservedly for one reason or another (it may be due to your family and cultural upbringing, you may have had some sort of “spiritual” experience, etc.) and you are now compelled to defend that dogma against any evidence that contradicts it. You are just an apologetic and a fundamentalist friend.

ok,
Give a brief account of how mankind came into existence and why, from the IFA teachings let's see?

But for Christians we believe that man was created by God almighty

paxonel:
ok,
Give a brief account of how mankind came into existence and why, from the IFA teachings let's see?

paxonel, unless you want put off, please dont attach sniggers.

paxonel:
But for Christians we believe that man was created by God almighty

Not just believe
but know how man was created by God Almighty

Also know how God Almighty came to earth

paxonel:
ok,
Give a brief account of how mankind came into existence and why, from the IFA teachings let's see?

But for Christians we believe that man was created by God almighty

do not become a troll on your own thread. You prefer us to be jumping from one discussion to another without settle the initial discussion.


Do you comprehend my initial point.

vaxx:
do not become a troll on your own thread.
You prefer us to be jumping from one discussion to another without settle the initial discussion.
Do you comprehend my initial point.

He gave you an affirmative OK,
then stretched the discourse to finding out what your brief account of how mankind came into existence and why, from the IFA teachings,
As an addendum, he added that Christians believe that man was created by God Almighty
The floor is yours vaxx

vaxx:
do not become a troll on your own thread. You prefer us to be jumping from one discussion to another without settle the initial discussion.


Do you comprehend my initial point.

you claim that there are no indication that shows flawless evidence that biblical passage or verses are more Superior to IFA traditional teaching, and that it is just an affirmation that is accepted on brainwashing.

Now I'm giving you reasons why most Africans over the years abandoned their IFA traditional worships and go after foreign religions inspite that they were brainwashed, that the mass conversions of Africans were as a result of the flaws of IFA traditional beliefs .

Then, to buttress my point I ask you, give a brief account of how humans came into existence from the IFA teachings let us do the comparison and see which is more sensible or are you scared of saying something about your basic fundamentals?

MuttleyLaff:
paxonel, unless you want put off, please dont attach sniggers.

Not just believe
but know how man was created by God Almighty

Also know how God Almighty came to earth

like, to know the technicality behind creation and God's arrival?
You know it will not do us any good to that extent

paxonel:
like, to know the technicality behind creation and God's arrival?
You know it will not do us any good to that extent

Yeah,
I too I am excited and anxious for vaxx to enlighten, based from Ifa traditional beliefs, the technicality behind creation and God's arrival.

paxonel:
you claim that there are no indication that shows flawless evidence that biblical passage or verses are more Superior to IFA traditional teaching, and that it is just an affirmation that is accepted on brainwashing.

Now I'm giving you reasons why most Africans over the years abandoned their IFA traditional worships and go after foreign religions inspite that they were brainwashed, that the mass conversions of Africans were as a result of the flaws of IFA traditional beliefs .

Then, to buttress my point I ask you, give a brief account of how humans came into existence from the IFA teachings let us do the comparison and see which is more sensible or are you scared of saying something about your basic fundamentals?

oh I see it is now about dick measuring and not about truth seeking. When I say you are an apologetic, I am very right


You wanted to compare the both mythology and seek for which make more sense to you lol.

I have already created a thread on it earlier, so I will not be repeating myself..... Go thru this link and get me your feedback on this thread

...https://www.nairaland.com/4014537/yoruba-story-creation-fact-fiction


Muttleylaff , I hope I cover your interest.

vaxx:
oh I see it is now about dick measuring and not about truth seeking.
When I say you are an apologetic, I am very right

It's not about the size though,
after all dick size doesnt matter.
Its how it's used

vaxx:
You wanted to compare the both mythology and seek for which make more sense to you lol.

I have already created a thread on it earlier, so I will not be repeating myself.....
Go thru this link and get me your feedback on this thread

...https://www.nairaland.com/4014537/yoruba-story-creation-fact-fiction


Muttleylaff , I hope I cover your interest.

Very interesting.

I could see similitudes with the Godhead in it
but before I ask questions,
is the thread content original and yours
or its copy and pasted lifted off somewhere else?

MuttleyLaff:
It's not about the size though,
after all dick size doesnt matter.
Its how it's used

Very interesting.

I could see similitudes with the Godhead in it
but before I ask questions,
is the thread content original and yours
or its copy and pasted lifted off somewhere else?

What a question? And how those this deals with the further question you wanted to ask? The work is a summary and well edited from my own angle. And if you are looking for originality , go read dissertation....z. This is just an eye opening for an inqusitive mind......

originality mean new knowledge that has not previously presented. The work had been presented earlier and not new.. The piece of the work is taking from sacred forest and ifa foundation web page , why I do some editing and the summary. Hope this answer your question..

vaxx:
oh I see it is now about dick measuring and not about truth seeking. When I say you are an apologetic, I am very right


You wanted to compare the both mythology and seek for which make more sense to you lol.

there is nothing wrong defending your religious beliefs. You defend yours i defend mine.
The religious belief with the most superior and reasonable argument will attract more adherents than the other.
This has been the case resulting to the mass conversion of Africans to foreign religions over the years against your believe that they were brainwashed.

I have already created a thread on it earlier, so I will not be repeating myself..... Go thru this link and get me your feedback on this thread

...https://www.nairaland.com/4014537/yoruba-story-creation-fact-fiction


Muttleylaff , I hope I cover your interest.

there is no difference between the idea of creation in the link with what christianity holds, only that the characters and objects involved like obalata, olodumare, oduduwa, calabash, Clay, ash, etc are all indigenous which is another reason why the idea not widely acceptable because how will you explain that all these things happened over millions of years without the rest of the world knowing about it until the 15th century?

Another thing is a question i will ask, are there realities like prophecies of IFA teachings which have already been fulfilled this modern day that portray our current day experiences?

There are prophecies like that in the bible which have already been fulfilled and we are experiencing them today which is another reason Africans are abandoning their traditional religions

vaxx:
What a question?
And how those this deals with the further question you wanted to ask?

It would be no good asking you questions, if you arent the author

vaxx:
The work is a summary and well edited from my own angle.
And if you are looking for originality , go read dissertation....z.
This is just an eye opening for an inqusitive mind......

originality mean new knowledge that has not previously presented.
The work had been presented earlier and not new..
The piece of the work is taking from sacred forest and ifa foundation web page, why I do some editing and the summary.
Hope this answer your question..

[img]https://s1/images/Screen-Shot-2018-06-01-at-07.02.07.png[/img]
It seems after visiting the ifa foundation web page, what you posted as edited by you, actually is in exactly the same words as were used originally on that website
This is shown in the black box from above screen grab shot

paxonel:
there is nothing wrong defending your religious beliefs. Y
ou defend yours i defend mine.
The religious belief with the most superior and reasonable argument will attract more adherents than the other.
This has been the case resulting to the mass conversion of Africans to foreign religions over the years against your believe that they were brainwashed

After all, the west has this colloiquial, that says:
"ti ogun eni ba daniloju, a ma nfi gba ori"
which loosely means:
"When you have confidence in your charm, you can wear or smack it on forehead safely and without having any problem"

paxonel:
tthere is no difference between the idea of creation in the link with what christianity holds, only that the characters and objects involved like obalata, olodumare, oduduwa, calabash, Clay, ash, etc are all indigenous which is another reason why the idea not widely acceptable because how will you explain that all these things happened over millions of years without the rest of the world knowing about it until the 15th century?

The similitudes are glaringly there to see

paxonel:
tAnother thing is a question i will ask,
are there realities like prophecies of IFA teachings which have already been fulfilled this modern day that portray our current day experiences?

There are prophecies like that in the bible which have already been fulfilled and we are experiencing them today which is another reason Africans are abandoning their traditional religions

We know the bible as a reference point or place
Except it's clarified, I suppose we can safely assume "sacred forest and ifa foundation" web page is vaxx's reference

MuttleyLaff:
It would be no good asking you questions, if you arent the author

[img]https://s1/images/Screen-Shot-2018-06-01-at-07.02.07.png[/img]
It seems after visiting the ifa foundation web page, what you posted as edited by you, actually is in exactly the same words as were used originally on that website
This is shown in the black box from above screen grab shot

so because no pastor bishop, or pope personally pen down the bible. It will be no good asking them about bible. How intelligent is that ?


Do you know what editing means ?i never said i paraphrase it. I only select and orgarnized it( condensing) since I still want to maintain an accurate and a complete work from the primary source. Do you see every elements of the works in his primary source here. Without omitting any words.

You are just a pin hole, even after telling you the work was taken from IFA foundation and sacred forest. You still act like i am gonna expose this guy.For what? To make me look like a dishonest write up. I guess. But you failed to check sacred forest. Why do you not go ahead and copy the screen shot , so you can balance your equation.

This will be your second time of doing this. I don't really know your interest.

MuttleyLaff:
After all, the west has this colloiquial, that says:
"ti ogun eni ba daniloju, a ma nfi gba ori"
which loosely means:
"When you have confidence in your charm, you can wear or smack it on forehead safely and without having any problem"

The similitudes are glaringly there to see

We know the bible as a reference point or place
Except it's clarified, I suppose we can safely assume "sacred forest and ifa foundation" web page is vaxx's reference

I used every authentic reference information to back my point. I do not just lift word. I make comparizm.

Do you want me to reference myself... You sound strange.... I have not seen an academia refrencing himself. He can make an assertion but will definitely back it up with similar report elsewhere.... Even those web page I lifted the work had a reference......

paxonel:
there is nothing wrong defending your religious beliefs. You defend yours i defend mine.
The religious belief with the most superior and reasonable argument will attract more adherents than the other.
This has been the case resulting to the mass conversion of Africans to foreign religions over the years against your believe that they were brainwashed.
there is no difference between the idea of creation in the link with what christianity holds, only that the characters and objects involved like obalata, olodumare, oduduwa, calabash, Clay, ash, etc are all indigenous which is another reason why the idea not widely acceptable because how will you explain that all these things happened over millions of years without the rest of the world knowing about it until the 15th century?

Another thing is a question i will ask, are there realities like prophecies of IFA teachings which have already been fulfilled this modern day that portray our current day experiences?

There are prophecies like that in the bible which have already been fulfilled and we are experiencing them today which is another reason Africans are abandoning their traditional religions

It make no sense defending the indefensible.... It is an element of brainwashing..... It is an attitude of close mind. You should always ready to be open to fair and insightful argument.... This make you intellectual and less biased.


Using mental gymnastics is also an element of bias too, why shouild you even debate the obvious truth in the first instance. When it is glaring at you.

Let me tell you how mental gymnastics works....Some are less good in presenting a strong argument from their own end while Some are very good in protecting their error using this so called mental gymnastics and not .because it is true but because it provide a convincing answer for not enough scrutiny question... You see why a good lawyer with very strong mental gymnastic may protect a criminal while living the innocent to be punished.

Ability to make superior point does not equate truth, it is just a positive strength on mental performance. And likewise number of mass adherents does not make one religion superior over one another. Religion is not democracy..... At least we all know how politician use this same mental gymnastics during.their campaign to win more votes to their sides.... It does not mean the party who won on massive vote will honour all his promises or outperform his competitor if given the chance. So your line of argument is a bit inept..

The creation myth of Yoruba tradition is not widely accepted simply because it is not put in the books that was written by the imperialist. How many Nigerians book do you see making impact in the west. I live in europe and I can tell you I have not study any academic book from africa as a reference guide in the university.....

Prophecy is an abrahumic statement, IFA is a complete template or call it a database that contain Yoruba philosophical thought , culture and moral guiding principle of life.... Many people of different faith and historical background made different prophecy (if prophecy can be synonymous to future event) and all came to pass. Even science has made his own prophesy.... Does that make any different to you..


Mind you IFA is much more older than Judaism and Christianity. If the creation story seems parrelel . does it occur to you one may likely plagiarised the former....... This is just an hypothesis from me o

Cheers to the open minded individual

MuttleyLaff:
After all, the west has this colloiquial, that says:
"ti ogun eni ba daniloju, a ma nfi gba ori"
which loosely means:
"When you have confidence in your charm, you can wear or smack it on forehead safely and without having any problem"

that is the point bro

The similitudes are glaringly there to see

exactly!

We know the bible as a reference point or place
Except it's clarified, I suppose we can safely assume "sacred forest and ifa foundation" web page is vaxx's reference

.

vaxx:

Ability to make superior point does not equate truth, it is just a positive strength on mental performance. And likewise number of mass adherents does not make one religion superior over one another. Religion is not democracy.....

and you are using this to console yourself?

At least we all know how politician use this same mental gymnastics during.their campaign to win more votes to their sides.... It does not mean the party who won on massive vote will honour all his promises or outperform his competitor if given the chance. So your line of argument is a bit inept..

and you think the voters no matter how dull they are cannot be once beaten, twice shy?
How many times have you heard that Christians in Africa or world wide have shy away from their christian faith like how they did to African traditional beliefs inspite the gymnastics?
Let's assume that IFA truly honored all the promises it promises Africans, why then was there mass conversion?
5 to 6 centuries later there are still mass conversion and the people have never showed any sign of once beaten, twice shy till this moment?
Aahhh

The creation myth of Yoruba tradition is not widely accepted simply because it is not put in the books that was written by the imperialist.

largely because Africans were never good writers of their heritage and you don't expect the Europeans to do the writting for them.

How many Nigerians book do you see making impact in the west. I live in europe and I can tell you I have not study any academic book from africa as a reference guide in the university.....

is there any institution in Africa that is rated high as close to the university you attended in Europe? (Check the latest webometric ranking ).
Then why are you expecting Nigerian books to make impact in Europe as much as European books are making impacts here in Africa?

Prophecy is an abrahumic statement, IFA is a complete template or call it a database that contain Yoruba philosophical thought , culture and moral guiding principle of life.... Many people of different faith and historical background made different prophecy (if prophecy can be synonymous to future event) and all came to pass. Even science has made his own prophesy.... Does that make any different to you..


Mind you IFA is much more older than Judaism and Christianity. If the creation story seems parrelel . does it occur to you one may likely plagiarised the former....... This is just an hypothesis from me o

true! It is much more older, like obasanjo is older than barrack Obama!

But can you be talking about this IFA thing in Europe and people will be listening to you?
How will you start it?

paxonel:
and you are using this to console yourself?
and you think the voters no matter how dull they are cannot be once beaten, twice shy?
How many times have you heard that Christians in Africa or world wide have shy away from their christian faith like how they did to African traditional beliefs inspite the gymnastics?
Let's assume that IFA truly honored all the promises it promises Africans, why then was there mass conversion?
5 to 6 centuries later there are still mass conversion and the people have never showed any sign of once beaten, twice shy till this moment?
Aahhh
largely because Africans were never good writers of their heritage and you don't expect the Europeans to do the writting for them.
is there any institution in Africa that is rated high as close to the university you attended in Europe? (Check the latest webometric ranking ).
Then why are you expecting Nigerian books to make impact in Europe as much as European books are making impacts here in Africa?
true! It is much more older, like obasanjo is older than barrack Obama!

But can you be talking about this IFA thing in Europe and people will be listening to you?
How will you start it?

hush my gosh, I am not consoling myself. I am presenting you the obvious truth. I do want your topic to be a point of referencing and not just loaded with some kind of mumbo jumbo. If I engaged you in a debate why traditional religion is more logical And reasonable, you will never win even if I argue in the opposite you will still not win me. I am proud to tell you that I am good at mental gymnastic skills. But should we discard the truth when it is not hiding. That is dishonesty.

That being said, you are fending for Christianity just because you have been inculcate to do so. It is like a Democrat supporter, he or she will never see reason to support Republican and same apply to Republican. Even if bitten thrice unless the fellow undergo Reformation.....have you ever genuinely question your believe system? As an apologetic that you are, you are only at the defensive side and not why it ought to be so.....if I pressure you a bit hard on your belief now. You will end up with the usual fallacious statement. "I can not understand since I do not have the holy spirit"


Stop treating IFA with the same sense of biblical teaching, IFA offer no promise to anyone.... What IFA teaches is the ability to apply wisdom (orunmila) on your self. IFA is a self enlightenment, it want you to be like orunmila, the father of wisdom.....simple

There is mass conversion to christainity because of the same principle i made mention ealier(Indoctrination and inculcation).and not because it the absolute thruth. Let me give you some insight , if you were born in Saudi Arabia, you will become a Muslim by now since you are most likely to be born into a muslim family and likewise if you are born in India, you will by now be an Hindu. You do not thread your part because you found absolute truth in it but because you found yourself in it. Same apply to most of the massive Christian... It is just an inculcation.

History is never in favor of the loser , the European won the wars and pen the history in their own favour but. Librated mind had discover the truth in wish you are still trap to discover.....

You see why I say, you are brainwashed... You are even referring to webometric to know the value of western education. And while african clever writer do not need to be included.....

In Denmark, an Igbo guy presented a liteature work of how their super electronic train transportation can be managed and it was implemented and successful.... Do you heard about him at home? My guess is no....because your imperialist boss do not see why you should know and that is the same reason they do not want their brethren to learn from you....enough said on that flaws.....

Your. Last statement just shows your ignorance... IFA tradition is not the same with abrahimic religion that is looking for adherents..that is why we do not do crusade..... It is a self enlightenment...... And if you want to know how ifa is making wave in diaspora.... Do a Google search.... I will not waste time talking on this .....brasil, Columbia, Mexico , USA all have adherents.......


You need to educate yourself so much, I saw this flaws in you...

vaxx:
so because no pastor bishop, or pope personally pen down the bible.
It will be no good asking them about bible.
How intelligent is that?

You're on one of your straw man episodes again, abi

vaxx:
Do you know what editing means ?
i never said i paraphrase it. I only select and orgarnized it (condensing) since I still want to maintain an accurate and a complete work from the primary source.
Do you see every elements of the works in his primary source here. Without omitting any words.

It only can be a careless attitude and bad ethic that will make anyone post section of a work, in exactly the same words and in same two paragraphs, as were used originally on another website
and not give credit, reference or source

vaxx:
You are just a pin hole, even after telling you the work was taken from IFA foundation and sacred forest.
You still act like i am gonna expose this guy. For what?
To make me look like a dishonest write up.
I guess. But you failed to check sacred forest.
Why do you not go ahead and copy the screen shot , so you can balance your equation.

I am not into looks
and so careless how you look or how you like to be seen

I didnt set to catch you out
All I did, was put in double quotes, a fair chunk of "your post", into Google search, to check the authenticity.
I often do that, so to find out if throwing questions at the post will be worth it, as there'll be no point, if its a "pass me down" second party data

Anyway, the result, Google search threw back at me,
was that page, word for word, paragraph by paragraph repeated, in toto, from ifafoundation.org
and nothing from nor on thesacredforest.org

I wouldnt be resentful of or mind anyone, doing same to my post(s), if for whatever reasons doubted the authencity

vaxx:
This will be your second time of doing this.
I don't really know your interest.

Please stop.
Victim mentality gets the better of you, when you like this, embrace and feed the victim mindset

Its nothing personal vaxx.
The interest, strictly just was about finding out if the post was composed, influenced by your thought process or thought pattern
and in your exact words
If affirmative, then can ask questions about the post
as you being the author or content owner, would be in a good position to defend it,
and better still, be able to give reliable answers

vaxx:
I used every authentic reference information to back my point.
I do not just lift word. I make comparizm.

Do you want me to reference myself... You sound strange....
I have not seen an academia refrencing himself.
He can make an assertion but will definitely back it up with similar report elsewhere....
Even those web page I lifted the work had a reference......

You didnt give credit to the website(s) to be the source, until I innocently questioned the post
You didnt make reference to the websites as your source, until I innocently questioned you

Get real, why would I want you to reference yourself
Why would an academician reference his/her work or himself/herself.

The post so much aroused my interest, I needed to confirm if its from the horse's mouth
and if affirmative, then my next aim would have been to directly engage with you, being the real author, creator, originator or writer of the post.

There is nothing wrong in talking milk from different and other people's cow to make cheese
Imagine someone bottling up milk from your farm, for public consumption, without a label stuck on it crediting your farm

vaxx:
i am proud to tell you that I am good at mental gymnastic skills. But should we discard the truth when it is not hiding. That is dishonesty.

certainly, the truth remains the pillar. I must compliment you on your mental ingenuity very few people living in Africa are capable of this.

That being said, you are fending for Christianity just because you have been inculcate to do so.

likewise, you are defending IFA because you have been inculcated to do so.

It is like a Democrat supporter, he or she will never see reason to support Republican and same apply to Republican. Even if bitten thrice unless the fellow undergo Reformation

but i have been supporting some of your traditional views here?
You came up with some basic principles of your traditional fundamental believes and i said they were good. But you never in anytime complimented my christian believes rather you saw everything as being brainwashed

have you ever genuinely question your believe system?

this is the scrutiny i do everyday especially when I'm reading my bible and i must confess it has been difficult. Difficult in the sense that a lot of what we believe and do as Christians do not really correlate with the bible, we do them because they are the general beliefs and tenets of christianity not because they are necessarily right.
To this effect, i have deliberately ignore some of those believe systems and focus on the ones that are applicable to reality.
Now, every religions including IFA have some faulty believe systems or tenets too it's now left for the individual to do the scrutiny for him or herself.

As an apologetic that you are

including you too because you were caught vehemently defending your IFA beliefs too

you are only at the defensive side and not why it ought to be so

I'm at the defensive side because it ought to be so, why because very humans have their minds and rights to accept or reject anything depending whether they are good or bad which is ought to be so.
Even if anything was forcefully imposed to anyone a time will come when the individual will grow up and understand enough to decide if he will still continue with what he was imposed on or not which is ought to be so
And since the vast majority of African Christians still continue with christianity after they were brainwashed( according to you) or christianity was imposed on them, then certainly, there is something they have seen in that christianity that their original African traditional religions could not offer, so they continue with their christian beliefs which is ought to be so
And if you have anything that you have seen in IFA that is upgraded enough beyond the benefits of christianity to africans that you can show to African Christians which will make them revert their decision and go back to IFA believes, very good.
It's a free world let everyone decide for themselves which is ought to be so

if I pressure you a bit hard on your belief now. You will end up with the usual fallacious statement.

no, not this time!
If you have been doing that some ignorant African Christians and they ended up making fallacious statements you have met a different christian entirely. Even though i graduated from a school here in Nigeria i will let you know that you can't take all Africans for granted, that some of us know exactly what we are doing practicing christianity

"I can not understand since I do not have the holy spirit"

when did the holy spirit has become the criteria for anyone to understand i don't get it

Stop treating IFA with the same sense of biblical teaching, IFA offer no promise to anyone

whaaaat
Aaaahhh
So, you are saying that there is no promising future for IFA adherents after they die?
Do you see why there was a mass conversion in the first place?

What IFA teaches is the ability to apply wisdom (orunmila) on your self. IFA is a self enlightenment, it want you to be like orunmila, the father of wisdom.....simple

christianity and other religions teaches this one too

In Denmark, an Igbo guy presented a liteature work of how their super electronic train transportation can be managed and it was implemented and successful.... Do you heard about him at home?

we do not hear about thousands of non Africans achieving similar inventions at home either so the probability of hearing about one African among them who has achieved is very low. We need more African achievers for us hear more about them and the best way to go about it is to establish high rated universities and colleges in Africa like we have elsewhere in the world and only Africans will do that.

My guess is no....because your imperialist boss do not see why you should know and that is the same reason they do not want their brethren to learn from you....enough said on that flaws.....

my brother, if we continue to blame imperialists for our misfortune we head nowhere

Your. Last statement just shows your ignorance... IFA tradition is not the same with abrahimic religion that is looking for adherents..that is why we do not do crusade..... It is a self enlightenment...... And if you want to know how ifa is making wave in diaspora.... Do a Google search.... I will not waste time talking on this .....brasil, Columbia, Mexico , USA all have adherents....

ofcourse it will always make wave in diaspora only that Africans do not appreciate what they have which is why I'm putting you to a high estime. Truly as an African i am proud that our cultural heritage is making wave elsewhere and i would have love to be part of trend. But like i said, anything religion is subjective to the individual.

You need to educate yourself so much, I saw this flaws in you...

whatever!
I will say this is my first interaction with an African traditionalist as educated as you are . It's a privilege.

MuttleyLaff:
You're on one of your straw man episodes again, abi

you ignorantly forgot that you made the first goal post shifting, in which i aid you.

It only can be a careless attitude and bad ethic that will make anyone post section of a work, in exactly the same words and in same two paragraphs, as were used originally on another website
and not give credit, reference or source

There is nothing unethical taking a direct quotes words to words unless is not acknowledged , in my case,i have separate them into two indented paragraph since it is a longer quote. if it was a shorter quote it will have been put in inverted commas. do i need i to school you on this? my flaws is i do not outline the source which is logical since i am not writing a dissertation. It is just to enlighten some inquisitive mind who may feel that Yoruba Creation account is too mythical to be true.

I am not into looks
and so careless how you look or how you like to be seen

so what do you intend to do? score me i guess...

I didnt set to catch you out
All I did, was put in double quotes, a fair chunk of "your post", into Google search, to check the authenticity.
I often do that, so to find out if throwing questions at the post will be worth it, as there'll be no point, if its a "pass me down" second party data

This is illogical, the biblical verses you contribute on my thread was '' pass me'' down as well, why do you not go thru this method? what i observe is you intend to distract the conversation by shifting the point of discussion into another topic which you have successfully achieved. is thee a crime in educating people with third pat source

Anyway, the result, Google search threw back at me,
was that page, word for word, paragraph by paragraph repeated, in toto, from ifafoundation.org
and nothing from nor on thesacredforest.org

it shows you do not do your proper research better, and i will also advice you to learn what it takes to quote longer quote verbatim before you administer your score line again.

I wouldnt be resentful of or mind anyone, doing same to my post(s), if for whatever reasons doubted the authencity

it make no sense going thru such cycle, you already ask me earlier if the work belong to me, in which i said no, i even go ahead by providing you the web page in which this content was taking. i said it was edited and not paraphrase. the more you can do is to go ahead and take the screen shot of the page to show me again. and you tell me you are doing this to clear your doubt. it will make sense if i denied taking it from those web page but since i already affirm it , i still do not see the point of going thru such length unless you have another agenda.

Please stop.
Victim mentality gets the better of you, when you like this, embrace and feed the victim mindset

This is 'Geldingsdrang' on you part . it is a German word for such an individual like you, it is a disorder people suffer from - an extreme compulsion to draw attention to themselves - positive or negative - in order to be acknowledged or valued while making the person you are correcting look awkward

Its nothing personal vaxx.
The interest, strictly just was about finding out if the post was composed, influenced by your thought process or thought pattern
and in your exact words
If affirmative, then can ask questions about the post
as you being the author or content owner, would be in a good position to defend it,
and better still, be able to give reliable answers

There are limited reason for putting down research works, some of them is to correct,affirm or modify the already establish works, in the case of this topic, it is modification. even the web page can not claim authority on the topic. it is Yoruba creation account that the author deem fit to align with modem science by trying to merge the creation with the scientific discovery together. just like the case of bible , in which i challenge the gospel of john and you defend it on his behalf because you have study it as a person. do i need to see the author john before i question it?

You didnt give credit to the website(s) to be the source, until I innocently questioned the post
You didnt make reference to the websites as your source, until I innocently questioned you

This is true in which i acknowledge, but you forget to add i honestly provide where the source was coming from when ask. i never claim to own it.

Get real, why would I want you to reference yourself
Why would an academician reference his/her work or himself/herself.

Then what do you mean by my own work, if you so value to hear from my independent ''thought process and thought pattern'' as you claim.you should have go ahead. for the fact that the content of the message is not originally mine make it impressive as we can have a different view into the meaning of the message. that is what is called analyses. And therefore we can juxtapose our different views which will make the discussion interesting.in all sincerity, i acknowledge i do not sight the reference but i honestly tell you is not mine.

i suppose the rest of your response has no influence on the discussion, except the usual i know better and more right than you as your mind dictate just to covers up your weaknesses, but in actuality, it just makes you look like a pompous jerk. Enough said. CHANA,

vaxx:
...if I pressure you a bit hard on your belief now. You will end up with the usual fallacious statement. "I can not understand since I do not have the holy spirit"

Master your punches are deadly in a street brawl.. That dude will need long term therapy.
In the heat of that battle you threw a punch that may later be interpreted as hitting below the belt.
I admire and respect your wisdom on spiritual and scientific issues sir.
Nevertheless I have been in many street brawls where I had to bite an ear to end the bullying.

More grease to your elbows.