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Nairaland Forum / Nairaland / General / Religion / Theists: Objective Morality, Why Is Something Good? (5906 Views)
You cannot be an atheists and have objective morality. / God Is An Atheist: What Theists Cant argue.Discover God's God / Sexual Orientations And Objective Morality. (2) (3) (4)
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Re: Theists: Objective Morality, Why Is Something Good? by johnydon22(m): 3:56pm On Jul 14, 2018 |
Qpetz:A supreme being that shaped the cosmos |
Re: Theists: Objective Morality, Why Is Something Good? by Qpetz: 3:56pm On Jul 14, 2018 |
. |
Re: Theists: Objective Morality, Why Is Something Good? by johnydon22(m): 3:59pm On Jul 14, 2018 |
festwiz:even atheists on this board stay clear of such profound questions. Majority of folks on this board on either side of the spectrum of belief index prefer the name calling aggressive squabbles that are not addressing anything in particular to arguments or questions that'd make them think deeper than they are comfortable with. Lol |
Re: Theists: Objective Morality, Why Is Something Good? by Qpetz: 4:00pm On Jul 14, 2018 |
johnydon22: And you think such a being will be concerned with morality? |
Re: Theists: Objective Morality, Why Is Something Good? by johnydon22(m): 4:01pm On Jul 14, 2018 |
Qpetz: It won't be logically improbably if it was. |
Re: Theists: Objective Morality, Why Is Something Good? by dalaman: 4:02pm On Jul 14, 2018 |
johnydon22: You are just stating it based on what God said or saw was good from his own perspective. How do you independently know that it's good or bad? |
Re: Theists: Objective Morality, Why Is Something Good? by Qpetz: 4:04pm On Jul 14, 2018 |
johnydon22: Is that a yes or no? |
Re: Theists: Objective Morality, Why Is Something Good? by johnydon22(m): 4:05pm On Jul 14, 2018 |
dalaman: That's the purpose of this thread. If it is good because God said it is then we know that to the theist, goodness is independent of man's judgement. But if goodness is independent of God's determination then even God himself is subject to moral judgements. And this begs the question, how did this moral confinement get in place? I think these questions are more suitable for a theist. 1 Like |
Re: Theists: Objective Morality, Why Is Something Good? by johnydon22(m): 4:07pm On Jul 14, 2018 |
Qpetz:Yes or No is an oversimplification. Either of the two is subject to logical contingency. So keep the answer within the compass of logical feasibility. |
Re: Theists: Objective Morality, Why Is Something Good? by johnydon22(m): 4:08pm On Jul 14, 2018 |
Seun can you take us to frontpage? Let us get more opinions and audiences? |
Re: Theists: Objective Morality, Why Is Something Good? by Qpetz: 4:10pm On Jul 14, 2018 |
johnydon22: I rest my case. 1 Like |
Re: Theists: Objective Morality, Why Is Something Good? by johnydon22(m): 4:13pm On Jul 14, 2018 |
Qpetz:LOL |
Re: Theists: Objective Morality, Why Is Something Good? by Seun(m): 4:23pm On Jul 14, 2018 |
johnydon22:It’s a meaningless term. To me objectivity and morality are not compatible. Every moral actor or group of moral actors has its own morality. If a sentient creator exists, his morality is just one of many. He judges right and wrong from his point of view, just like all other moral actors e.g. elephants, lions and human beings. From a lion’s point of view, killing a baby elephant is morally acceptable because they have to kill to eat, but from an elephant’s point of view, lions that kill elephant babies are evil animals that ought to be exterminated. From the hypothetical creator’s perspective, allowing little children to have cancer or be raped may be right, since he allows these things to happen; because he sees them as his playthings (he is the potter and we are the clay, right?). That doesn’t make those things right from our point of view as decent people. Any human who allows kids to be raped even though he could prevent it, would be condemned as evil by all human beings. If a creator exists, his morality is just his subjective morality. I do not believe that picking one moral actor’s subjective morality and labeling it as “objective” makes sense. 13 Likes 9 Shares |
Re: Theists: Objective Morality, Why Is Something Good? by Mujtahida: 4:37pm On Jul 14, 2018 |
johnydon22:Any morality based on God is false. |
Re: Theists: Objective Morality, Why Is Something Good? by Mujtahida: 4:43pm On Jul 14, 2018 |
orisa37:Conscience is geo culturally determined. All morality at the core are nothing but matters of social convenience. 5 Likes 1 Share |
Re: Theists: Objective Morality, Why Is Something Good? by orisa37: 4:49pm On Jul 14, 2018 |
johnydon22:. No. Atheists are not invited to complicate this. |
Re: Theists: Objective Morality, Why Is Something Good? by johnydon22(m): 5:03pm On Jul 14, 2018 |
Seun:I agree with you Let's look at it this way. Take Nigeria as an example, constitutionally gay marriage is illegal. But there are individuals within the country that do not find any negative moral weight on gay marriage. But the constitutional moral dictate is binding to every individual within Nigeria. Could objectivity in this sense be referred to the binding nature of a moral codec from a creator as the ultimate authority? |
Re: Theists: Objective Morality, Why Is Something Good? by johnydon22(m): 5:04pm On Jul 14, 2018 |
orisa37: Lol. Ok. I wouldnt want to do that |
Re: Theists: Objective Morality, Why Is Something Good? by johnydon22(m): 5:05pm On Jul 14, 2018 |
Mujtahida:elucidate? |
Re: Theists: Objective Morality, Why Is Something Good? by orisa37: 6:12pm On Jul 14, 2018 |
Conscience is geo culturally determined. Yes. But up to the stage of geo-uniform development, assessment and comparison. Goma people are Nigerians. The Yoruba Emir of Iwo(Akanbi) is a Nigerian too and has travelled to Canada and back. He has God given Conscience like the Goma man. All morality at the core are nothing but matters of social convenience. That Core is The Ark of Faith. After God breathed Conscience into Adam, He built him a Garden, thus building into him The Right to believe in Whom Who feeds him. God told Adam not to eat from a particular Tree, extending The Ark of Faith. The Blood in The Ram that Abraham used in substitution for The Blood of Isaac was The Blood of Christ, An Ark of Faith(Covenant). On the Israelis Return from Egypt, God gave 10 Commandments, also an Ark of Covenant. God had been building Moralities and Objectivities into the Consciences of all His Creations, irrespective of geographical locations and tribes. Until Christ came, a Character, Morality, Subjectivity and Objectivity for all Born Again Christians. |
Re: Theists: Objective Morality, Why Is Something Good? by Deo1986(m): 7:08pm On Jul 14, 2018 |
It depends on the God you meant OP, generally, our idea of good and bad is influenced by religion, culture and environment. |
Re: Theists: Objective Morality, Why Is Something Good? by Deo1986(m): 7:14pm On Jul 14, 2018 |
orisa37:Au contraire sir.............. Depends on the God you are talking about. Every tribe have been having dealings with their God since time. |
Re: Theists: Objective Morality, Why Is Something Good? by Mujtahida: 7:57pm On Jul 14, 2018 |
johnydon22:It is false because it is based on 'God said' as written in a book or through ecclesiastical proxies. God cannot make me to draw air myself in order to leave and when it comes to what religious people say is important to him as in obedience to his commands - upon which morality is built - I get to take it from a book or from the priest craft. It's all a fraud |
Re: Theists: Objective Morality, Why Is Something Good? by johnydon22(m): 8:08pm On Jul 14, 2018 |
Mujtahida: The basis of your argument is that God didn't say anything in the first place or don't exist? |
Re: Theists: Objective Morality, Why Is Something Good? by awesomeJ(m): 9:05pm On Jul 14, 2018 |
Seun: Actually what utterly lack sense are these rantings you put up. You know what? you're right, god doesn't exist. That's the god in your head though. However, the God that I serve exists. I converse with Him daily, I enjoy His influence, in Him, I have experience supernatural, so IT CAN ONLY BE FOOLISH OF YOU, THAT YOU'LL EXPECT ME TO AGREE TO YOUR BLIND ARGUMENT ABOUT HIS EXISTENCE. let any fool argue all his life about the existence of your biological father, perhaps you'd be convinced against his existence. You know what else, I'll yet send you a proof that'll be glaring to all. it just may not be the most palatable thing to you. Wait on it though. You be talking as if your opinion counts for anything. Prideful ignorance! |
Re: Theists: Objective Morality, Why Is Something Good? by edicied: 9:09pm On Jul 14, 2018 |
Morality is always subjective |
Re: Theists: Objective Morality, Why Is Something Good? by johnydon22(m): 9:10pm On Jul 14, 2018 |
[size=8pt][/size] awesomeJ: Was this suppose to be a rebuttal? 3 Likes |
Re: Theists: Objective Morality, Why Is Something Good? by hopefulLandlord: 9:20pm On Jul 14, 2018 |
awesomeJ: You really are awesome, I'm in awe of this irrelevant and useless thesis 1 Like |
Re: Theists: Objective Morality, Why Is Something Good? by festwiz(m): 10:14pm On Jul 14, 2018 |
awesomeJ: You'll have to speak a little louder 'cause I don't understand stupid 2 Likes |
Re: Theists: Objective Morality, Why Is Something Good? by dalaman: 10:23pm On Jul 14, 2018 |
johnydon22: |
Re: Theists: Objective Morality, Why Is Something Good? by Mujtahida: 11:10pm On Jul 14, 2018 |
johnydon22:He didn't say anything! 1 Like |
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