@stimulus


I had the premonition that you were going to reharsh already weathered arguments here as in previous threads. Rest your heart, as it's not my style to push for unsubstantiated lingusitic misconceptions paraded by Muslim so-called 'scholars' who have no idea of the Hebrew language. That is why your efforts to sweat out their misconceptions is untenable here.


You know what, thats just the problem with most christians here on nairaland. You believe that you are the most knowledgeable. You always think that yours should be the most acceptable, thereby ignoring others.

It is not new for christians to utter the above when they are being cornered.

Did Jesus ever heard the word 'Jehovah' during his ministry? Was Jehovah part of Aramaic language.

I am leaving you in your drivel. Its a free world.

okay.

@ishmael,

You're trying to play a very infantile game with your drivel, and it's not such a bother to keep you busy at it. I've offered you several challenges:

#1. Extract from the Bible the verse that stipulates that Ishmael worshipped Jehovah God, and then you can rest your heart.

#2. To the question: "Is Allah Not The Arabic Word for Jehovah God?" I've offered you that there's no word as 'JEHOVAH' in the Arabic language. If there is, please point it out.

#3. When you bear out the texts that establish your assertion that Ishmael worshipped Jehovah God, then I'll point out just the sort of man he in the Genesis account; and what impact that had on his progeny.

If you're so lame in your defence as to offer textual evidence for your misconceptions, you can as well shout many pages in this thread about the same misconceptions - it won't change anything.

ishmael:

Thank God that you agree and acknowledge that God Blessed Ishmael because of Abraham's prayer(s) for him; He was Blessed that's it!! Was it not God's Blessings that was poured upon him?? Or is there any Blessings more than God's Blessings?? did the blessings transform into curse?? Or did God reverse the blessings??

Edit or modify it as many times as you want, God answered the prayers of ABRAHAM - not Ishmael's prayers. The rascal was only a mocker whose career was clearly spelt out in Genesis 16:12 - "And he will be a wild man; his hand will be against every man, and every man's hand against him; and he shall dwell in the presence of all his brethren".

It's quite easy to rest your arguments. As soon as you adduce texts for the personal devotion of Ishmael towards Jehovah God, then I will spell out the rest for you of the sort of man he was. Sorry he's your name sake; but it won't change anything bro.

Regards.

@babs787,

babs787:

@stimulus


I had the premonition that you were going to reharsh already weathered arguments here as in previous threads. Rest your heart, as it's not my style to push for unsubstantiated lingusitic misconceptions paraded by Muslim so-called 'scholars' who have no idea of the Hebrew language. That is why your efforts to sweat out their misconceptions is untenable here.


You know what, thats just the problem with most christians here on nairaland. You believe that you are the most knowledgeable. You always think that yours should be the most acceptable, thereby ignoring others.

It is not new for christians to utter the above when they are being cornered.

Did Jesus ever heard the word 'Jehovah' during his ministry? Was Jehovah part of Aramaic language.

I am leaving you in your drivel. Its a free world.

okay.

Haba, babs787. . . I did NOT claim to be the most knowledgeable.

Infact, if I ever did, then I should NOT have had to post the disclaimer that I am NOT a Hebrew scholar:

stimulus:

In Genesis 1:1, the word used for God is אלהים ['ĕlôhîym - el-o-heem'], not "Allah". I am not a Hebrew scholar; but here's a website that could offer sound help from those who know the language well enough: Hebrew Names of God. Then you will understand why such dishonest transliterations by disingenuous fellows are not worth the noise they make.

The simple premise is for you to challenge and investigate the claims of the dressed-up article you reposted from that website. Those gentlemen are misleading the public reader into believing their linguistic re-engineering of Hebrew, Aramaic and Greek words into Arabic idiosyncracies, which is shamefully dishonest.

If anyone is being "cornered", take an honest and bold step to challenge those articles (the same thing I do in challenging even "Christian" writers) - then you will see how my assertion stands that those chaps are disingenuous.

Cheers.

@stimulus

The simple premise is for you to challenge and investigate the claims of the dressed-up article you reposted from that website. Those gentlemen are misleading the public reader into believing their linguistic re-engineering of Hebrew, Aramaic and Greek words into Arabic idiosyncracies, which is shamefully dishonest.

If anyone is being "cornered", take an honest and bold step to challenge those articles (the same thing I do in challenging even "Christian" writers) - then you will see how my assertion stands that those chaps are disingenuous.


Thanks but no thanks for the advice. The topic should have been "what is His name"

Astonishing as it may sound, it is an admitted fact that prior to the sixteenth century, the word "Jehovah," was unheard of. Have you noticed that Hebrew Language is being read from right to left as in Arabic).

The Christians claim that they have in their possession over twenty-four thousand so-called "originals" of their Holy Writ in the Greek language, and yet not a single parchment has "Jehovah" written in it. Curiously this "name of God" (?) has been sacrilegiously replaced by the Greek words ky'ri.os and the.os', which mean 'Lord' and 'God.'

Have you ever received any Jehovah witness?They have made the word JEHOVAH famous. They knock at people's doors, asking the question - "What is His Name?" The orthodox Christian replies - "God." They say, "God is not a name, it is an object of worship.

Stimulus, I have questions for you on the word 'jehovah"

1. Did Jesus heard the word Jehovah?

2. What is the word for 'God' in Aramaic and Hebrew?

3. How did Y H W H become Jehovah

4. What is a 'tetragrammaton'

As you are answering the questions, let us look at the below lists:


THE HEBREW ARABIC ENGLISH
Elah Ilah god
Ikhud Ahud one
Yaum Yaum day
Shaloam Salaam peace
Yahuwa Ya Huwa oh he


Thanks

@stimulus
What do you understand by " he will be a wildman"?? Don't give a literal meaning to it, you hear?? and what do you understand by "he shall dwell in the presence of all his brethren"?? Who are his brethren??

@babs787,

babs787:

@stimulus

The simple premise is for you to challenge and investigate the claims of the dressed-up article you reposted from that website. Those gentlemen are misleading the public reader into believing their linguistic re-engineering of Hebrew, Aramaic and Greek words into Arabic idiosyncracies, which is shamefully dishonest.

If anyone is being "cornered", take an honest and bold step to challenge those articles (the same thing I do in challenging even "Christian" writers) - then you will see how my assertion stands that those chaps are disingenuous.


Thanks but no thanks for the advice. The topic should have been "what is His name"

Astonishing as it may sound, it is an admitted fact that prior to the sixteenth century, the word "Jehovah," was unheard of. Have you noticed that Hebrew Language is being read from right to left as in Arabic).

The Christians claim that they have in their possession over twenty-four thousand so-called "originals" of their Holy Writ in the Greek language, and yet not a single parchment has "Jehovah" written in it. Curiously this "name of God" (?) has been sacrilegiously replaced by the Greek words ky'ri.os and the.os', which mean 'Lord' and 'God.'

Have you ever received any Jehovah witness?They have made the word JEHOVAH famous. They knock at people's doors, asking the question - "What is His Name?" The orthodox Christian replies - "God." They say, "God is not a name, it is an object of worship.

Stimulus, I have questions for you on the word 'jehovah"

1. Did Jesus heard the word Jehovah?

2. What is the word for 'God' in Aramaic and Hebrew?

3. How did Y H W H become Jehovah

4. What is a 'tetragrammaton'

As you are answering the questions, let us look at the below lists:


THE HEBREW ARABIC ENGLISH
Elah Ilah god
Ikhud Ahud one
Yaum Yaum day
Shaloam Salaam peace
Yahuwa Ya Huwa oh he


Thanks

It seems you're still dripping wet with the same arguments that haven't helped your case. If you can't take my advise, is it any wonder that you perhaps might be a little unsettled as to discover the painful truth? When you claim that the name of God has been sacrilegiously replaced by the Greek words ky'ri.os and the.os', what exactly was His original Name before the 'replacement'?

The philological argument you're advancing still show the difference between Hebrew and Arabic, regardless the closeness. What I have pointed out still holds: the claim of the author whose article you dressed up that Genesis 1:1 uses "Allah" is false. That is a re-engineered lingusitic blooper that won't stand scrutiny.

@ishmael,

ishmael:

@stimulus
What do you understand by " he will be a wildman"?? Don't give a literal meaning to it, you hear??

Okay, I hear you. So, please give us your own abstract meaning and let's hear more.

ishmael:

and what do you understand by "he shall dwell in the presence of all his brethren"?? Who are his brethren??

I've made the case already in another thread that besides Isaac by Sarah, Ishmael had other half-brethren from Abraham's second wife, Keturah. Their names are Zimran, Jokshan, Medan, Midian, Ishbak, and Shuah (Gen. 25:1-2 and I Chron. 1:32). Are we to argue again that those were not a "literal meaning" as well?

Further, in Gen. 25:6, Abraham sent away the other sons 'eastward, unto the east country'; while Isaac dwelt at Lahairoi in the south country (vs. 11; and Gen. 24:62), which was located between Kadesh and Bered (Gen. 16:14).

The expression "he shall dwell in the presence of all his brethren" points to Ishmael's original or native country/people - the Arab Egyptians.

"These are the sons of Ishmael, and these are their names, by their towns, and by their castles; twelve princes according to their nations. And these are the years of the life of Ishmael, an hundred and thirty and seven years: and he gave up the ghost and died; and was gathered unto his people. And they dwelt from Havilah unto Shur, that is before Egypt, as thou goest toward Assyria: and he died in the presence of all his brethren" (Gen. 25:16-18).

Here is the gist: 'all his brethren' is in particular reference to his native people the Egyptians ("gathered unto his own people", and not narrowly in reference to Isaac's progeny. Hagar was from Egypt (Gen. 16:1); the political boundaries defined for the Ishmaelites were around Egypt (ch. 25:18); and the covenant son Isaac dwelt rather in the south country (Gen. 24:62). Therefore, when you read that clause "he shall dwell in the presence of all his brethren", do not mistake it for the same geographic spot, or an idea of intermingling of peoples in the same confines.

Now, if you really want to settle this greasy windscreen of Ishmael worshipping Jehovah God, may I ask you once more to kindly advance your texts for them and then I'll oblige you the very essence of what you've been missing out. If otherwise, you are not obliged to proffer any answers since you have no texts ready to your defence. Hence, you may retract on your assertions until otherwise when you can present something more to the point.

Ciao!

[quote][/quote]

ffffffffff

fffffffffffffffbg

@stimulus

And the Bible now told you that ishmael and his descendants did not worship God, abi?? Quote your Bible for me, probably i don't have that verse in my own Bible.

Allah is an Arabic word as we all know, while Jehovah is Hebrew. Is God a Hebrew word??

@ishmael,

ishmael:

@stimulus

And the Bible now told you that ishmael and his descendants did not worship God, abi?? Quote your Bible for me, probably i don't have that verse in my own Bible.

Allah is an Arabic word as we all know, while Jehovah is Hebrew. Is God a Hebrew word??

I have said repeatedly and I hope your don't have wax in your eyes:

"As soon as you adduce texts for the personal devotion of Ishmael towards Jehovah God, then I will spell out the rest for you of the sort of man he was."

And if you really don't have a text for your dribbling assertions, then:

". . .you are not obliged to proffer any answers since you have no texts ready to your defence. Hence, you may retract on your assertions until otherwise when you can present something more to the point."

Just be man enough to take up my challenge, and you will read the real stuff that will lay your drivel to rest.

Cheers.

@stimulus
You are only arguing as a christian, i don't think you know the truth.

ishmael:

@stimulus
You are only arguing as a christian, i don't think you know the truth.

How else have you been arguing - or did you not say that you're a Christian? If you know the truth, why has it been difficult for you to share the same?

Jehovah and allah are not the same O.
They are different attributes

Hey
This is interesting.

Well if you know Hebrews the answer is simple.

Is Allah Not The Arabic Word For Jehovah God?

No allah is not Jahweh/Johovah.

Why?

Which was first Jahweh/Johovah or allah?

Jahweh/Johovah

High islamic/mason/catholic source:
On page 102 of Morals and Dogma, Pike said the following:
"The true name of Satan, the Kabalists say, is that of Yahveh (God) reversed;
for Satan is not a black god, but the negation of God. The Devil is the personification of Atheism or Idolatry.
For the Initiates, this is not a PERSON BUT A FORCE.

Where did allah come from?

1.) You write Jahweh in Hebrews
2.) You reverse the Jahweh in Hebrews ( Yahveh (God) reversed )
3.) Turn upside down ( occult thinking )
4.) Sqeeze it closer
5.) you find the word allah

Which was created from which?

Anyways check here for more info/facts on allah and islam: http://babylonmysteryreligion.com/The%20Islam%20Connection.htm

I'll post the photo's on how the name allah was made in a few days that everyone can see it.

Cheers

Proverbs
15:1 A soft answer turneth away wrath: but grievous words stir up anger.
15:2 The tongue of the wise useth knowledge aright: but the mouth of fools poureth out foolishness.
15:3 The eyes of the LORD are in every place, beholding the evil and the good.
15:4 A wholesome tongue is a tree of life: but perverseness therein is a breach in the spirit.
15:5 A fool despiseth his father's instruction: but he that regardeth reproof is prudent.
15:6 In the house of the righteous is much treasure: but in the revenues of the wicked is trouble.
15:7 The lips of the wise disperse knowledge: but the heart of the foolish doeth not so.
15:8 The sacrifice of the wicked is an abomination to the LORD: but the prayer of the upright is his delight.
15:9 The way of the wicked is an abomination unto the LORD: but he loveth him that followeth after righteousness.
15:10 Correction is grievous unto him that forsaketh the way:

I believe it is pointless trying to connect Allah to Jehovah,cause whether they accept it or not we hVE DIFFERENT CONCEPTIONS OF GOD, some of them claim trinity, we say ALLAH is not part of any trinity so it will be pointless. What I will always say in this matter is ALLAH reigns Supreme over all beings be it it the phantom trinity or he panrheon of gods ALLAH's dominion can not be challenged. This brings another reason why the this whole debate is pointless we Muslim believe that prophets of GOD do not sin the way you read it in the bible, yet the bible is filled with stories that shows how prophets? sinned out of shear greed.
Now the issue of trinity, it can be stated that trinity existed in several religion predating christianity notable among them is the Egyptian religion here are some pictures

I pray for Christians,Jews,and Muslums to study together with diligence,and honor for our forefathers,Abraham and Adam. I pray we seek Holiness,Purity,and TheTruth. I pray for us to show love,mercy,humility,forgiveness; while finding a common ground to bind us together . I pray we stop fighting over transliterations,but instead, ask the God of Adam and Abraham to Reveal Himself to us as He did to them.

Of course Jehovah is not in the Tanakh (the Torah, the Ketuvim and Nevii'im), however Yahweh (the Aramaic/Hebrew translation) is!

In fact Yahweh is in the Tanakh 6,828 times.

God is not in the Bible either, but Elohim is!

Are you staarting to understand? The reason Jehovah in the Hebrew Tanakh is because Jehovah is the ENGLISH translation for the Aramaic/Hebrew Yahweh.

The Canaanites worshipped a Sky diety called EL, he was the father of the storm god Ba'al (yes, that Ba'al).

The Canaanites also said EL was the supreme god, but he was not the God of the Hebrews (Jews), they knew that their God's name was/is Yahweh!

His name mean "He Causes To Become" derived from the Hebrew verb ha·wahʹ (become).

In the Messianic (Christian) Scriptures: the name Yahweh can be found 237 times, usually quoting the Tanakh.

In the English language Bible, we know him as Jehovah or Jehovah God.

Allah, Elohim or God, is not Yawah Allah's (Arabic) name, Allah, Elohim or God is who and what he is, not his personal name.

It's like calling me Human or Man and saying that is my name. Then changing EVERYONES name to Human or Man or Woman. Who would we know we are calling? If everyone has the same name?

We all have names, but the Creator (another title) doesn't?

Allah is Arabic for the God in English. It is not a personal name it is a descriptor or a title like "Human""Man" or "Woman".

Such titles have been turned into personal names like Adam which means "Man", however notice that his is not translated as "Man" in English.

God's name in Arabic is Yawah - يهوه . In Aramaic/Hebrew it is Yahweh and in English it is Jehovah.

What does Yahweh mean?

"He Causes To Become" derived from the Hebrew verb ha·wahʹ (become).

Allah of Islam is not the same as Yawah - يهوه.

The Canaanites also said their Sky god EL was the true and only God, he was the father of the storm god Ba'al (the Lord or Master) sound familiar?

The Jews knew better because thier God's name was YAHWEH ELOHIM, in Arabic YAWAH ALLAH (يهوه الله) and in English JEHOVAH GOD!!!

Yaweh's (يهوه) name can be found in the Jewish Tanakh (or Old Testament) "6,282" times and it was also found in the Christian Greek Scriptures (the New Testament) 237 times, usually quoting the Tanakh.

Yawah Allah's (يهوه الله) name is not in the Qur'an at all! So how could the Qur'an be inspired by Yahwah Allah (يهوه الله) if his name is both found in it?

Islam claims to be an Abrahamic religion because it came through a descendant of Ishmael, because he is a son of Abraham.

Genesis 17:19
To this God said: “Your wife Sarah will definitely bear you a son, and you must name him Isaac . And I will establish my covenant with him for an everlasting covenant to his offspring<(Literally, “seed”)  after him.
New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures (Study Edition)



Genesis 35:11, 12
God further said to him: “I am God Almighty. Be fruitful and become many. Nations and a congregation of nations will come from you, and kings will descend from you.<(Literally, “come out of your loins”) (12) As for the land that I have given to Abraham and to Isaac , to you I will give it, and to your offspring<(Literally, “seed”) after you I will give the land.”
New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures (Study Edition)

What about Ishmael? Would he recieve a piece of the Abrahamic promise(covenant)? No! He would not!

Genesis 17:18-21
So Abraham said to the true God: “O that Ishʹma·el might live before you!” (19) To this God said: “Your wife Sarah will definitely bear you a son, and you must name him Isaac .<(Meaning “Laughter”) And I will establish my covenant with him for an everlasting covenant to his offspring<(Literally, “seed”) after him . (20) But as regards Ishʹma·el, I have heard you. Look! I will bless him and will make him fruitful and will multiply him very, very much. He will produce 12 chieftains, and I will make him become a great nation. (21) However, I will establish my covenant with Isaac, whom Sarah will bear to you at this appointed time next year.”
New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures (Study Edition)

Genesis 21:10-12
But Sarah kept noticing that the son of Haʹgar the Egyptian, whom she had borne to Abraham, was mocking Isaac. (10) So she said to Abraham: “Drive out this slave girl and her son, for the son of this slave girl is not going to be an heir along with my son, with Isaac!” (11) But what she said about his son was very displeasing to Abraham. (12) Then God said to Abraham: “Do not be displeased by what Sarah is saying to you about the boy and about your slave girl. Listen to her,<(Literally, “to her voice”) for what will be called your offspring <(Literally, “seed”)will be through Isaac.
New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures (Study Edition)

What about the other sons Abraham had with his concubines? Would they inherit a piece of the Abrahamic promise (covenant)?

Genesis 25:5,6
Later on Abraham gave everything he had to Isaac,  (6)  but Abraham gave gifts to his sons by his concubines. Then while he was still alive, he sent them eastward, away from Isaac his son, to the land of the East.
New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures (Study Edition)


So according to the Jewish Tanakh, Ishmael and the other sons of Abraham did NOT inherit the covenant God made with Abraham, just Isaac.