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| Re: Gombe Muslim Students Have Put Me In Sorrow By Killing My Friend by BECCIA(m): 4:23am On Apr 01, 2007 |
I indeed appreciate all the suggestions that have proposed an objective and praigmatic solutions to the problem on our hands. Like The One suggested, We all need to get our proposals, suggestions and remedies to the attention of highly placed Nigerians, media houses, politicians that we can reach. I think this should be a collective responsiblity. And it will be useful to hint this forum on any progress that have been made. I have serioulsy thought of getting this proposal of initiating educational polices enumerated in my earlier contributions to the personal of Oby Ezekwensili, the present Minister of Education. If anyone can reach her or knows someone that can reach her or people like that, It will take this issue to the NEXT Level. She is a veritable agent of change. If we can all work together to do this, I'll be happy that THERE IS A FUTURE FOR NIGERIA IN US. |
| Re: Gombe Muslim Students Have Put Me In Sorrow By Killing My Friend by buluti(m): 5:59am On Apr 01, 2007 |
@ mukina2 and drixie please i need a very clear answer. According to the Koran what should be done to an infidel that desecrates it? If possible give quotations from the Koran I have read you guys statements removing the political angle introduced all you guys have presented is sympathy theres been no clear condemation of the acts. Can a muslim in here please tell me what it is that no infidel can touch "your" Koran. I want to understand. Will i able able to hear the statement if an infidel touches MY Koran what is the big deal, i will just take it and move on or let me present an extreme case a christain groundnut seller tears one of the pages of my Koran to sell groundunt in the midst of other muslims can i just take my Koran express my displeasure or demand for a new one or something and move on, what will be your response in accordance with the teaching of the Koran. |
| Re: Gombe Muslim Students Have Put Me In Sorrow By Killing My Friend by 4Play(m): 3:01pm On Apr 01, 2007 |
Muslims doing what they do best-http://www.christiannewswire.com/news/194262642.html |
| Re: Gombe Muslim Students Have Put Me In Sorrow By Killing My Friend by Nobody: 3:12pm On Apr 01, 2007 |
@ 4play Have no fear. Islam is a religion of "peace", it is only the "extremist minority" trying to give it a bad name.  |
| Re: Gombe Muslim Students Have Put Me In Sorrow By Killing My Friend by egoldman(m): 7:06pm On Apr 01, 2007 |
my brother ,i do not know what the people want again , read the sorry story below ,the guy was even dragged into the " holy mosque " and was murdered there ,yet all you would hear is the usual " its the minority extremists " so let me ask who controls the mosque ? the extremists or the madrasas ? Ethiopian Evangelist Beaten to Death by Militant Muslims: Militant Wahabbi Islamists Drag Christian Evangelist into Mosque and Beat Him to Death Contact: Jeff King, President, International Christian Concern, 800-422-5441, icc@persecution.org WASHINGTON, Mar. 29 /Christian Newswire/ -- The Washington-DC based human rights group, International Christian Concern (ICC) has just learned that an Ethiopian evangelist named Tedase was beaten to death by militant Muslims on Monday, March 26th, as he and two young women were on a street evangelism assignment in Jimma, Ethiopia. This marks the second time in six months that Christians residing in Southeast Ethiopia have been attacked and killed by extremist (Wahabbi) Muslims. On Monday afternoon Tedase and two female coworkers were conducting street evangelism on Merkato Street in Jimma, Southern Ethiopia. Merkato Street runs by a Wahabbi Mosque. As the team was walking by the Mosque, a group of Muslims exited the Mosque and began to run after them to confront them. Tedase's female coworkers ran away from the mob but Tedase continued on. The Muslims caught up with Tedase, pulled him into the mosque, and savagely beat him to death. Sources from Jimma reported that Tedase was beaten with a calculated intention to kill him. This was no accident or case of mob frenzy getting out of control. His body was later taken to the hospital for an autopsy and he was buried Tuesday, March 27. Our sources also reveal that Jimma Christians were conducting an evangelism campaign, and news of the outreach was spreading among Jimma residents as well as militant Muslim groups in the area. The Muslims that belonged to the Wahabbi sect purposefully beat Tedase to death as a message to Christians that they are ready to combat evangelism. Aftershocks of the September 2006 Pogrom This most recent incident in Ethiopia confirms ICC's decision to include this country in its Hall of Shame list, which highlights nations where Christians are enduring the most severe persecution. It is important to note that the Muslims who attacked Tedase belonged to the Wahabbi brand of Islam, an extremist sect imported from Saudi Arabia. It is clear that the Christians in Ethiopia are feeling Saudi Arabia's influence, particularly in Jimma, a Muslim dominated area where local authorities are almost exclusively Muslim. It was only six months ago, in September of 2006, that Muslim extremists burned down a number of churches and parishes, as well as Christian homes. As many as 2,000 Christians were displaced by the attack, an attempt to intimidate Christians with the hopes of converting them to Islam. Evangelical church leaders are fearful that if police ignore Tedase's death, it will be a green light for Muslim groups in the area to attack their Christian neighbors at will and without retribution. We appeal to concerned individuals to contact the Ethiopian embassy in their own countries to ask for an investigation of Tedase's murder. |
| Re: Gombe Muslim Students Have Put Me In Sorrow By Killing My Friend by buluti(m): 8:53pm On Apr 01, 2007 |
davidylan: David put more accuratedly it is the "so called "moderate muslims that are in the minority while the extremist are the majority. |
| Re: Gombe Muslim Students Have Put Me In Sorrow By Killing My Friend by Nobody: 9:03pm On Apr 01, 2007 |
We are still waiting for that answer. @ beccia and drixie,what is the punishment,if any, for an individual that "desecrates" the Koran,please give us quotations too. That will help us get to the root of this. Is it possible that the Koran is against killing it's desecrators, but somehow some individuals go ahead and do so,where could they have learnt it from? I know my questions are very personal and may make you uncormfortable but that is the only way we non Muslims can understand these acts we've seen over and over again. Thanks for your anticipated response. |
| Re: Gombe Muslim Students Have Put Me In Sorrow By Killing My Friend by Nobody: 9:04pm On Apr 01, 2007 |
@ buluti I was only being sarcastic. There are no moderates anywhere. those who pretend to "sue for peace" are those who do not understand their religion at all. The so called "extremist minority" are those who truly practice islam the way the prophet did and the way it is described both in the quran and the hadith. That is why NO muslim can come out boldly to condemn such senseless murders. Violence, intolerance and deciet are fundamental tenets of islam, attempting to cover them up with the farce of "peace" is trying to play musical chairs with the truth. |
| Re: Gombe Muslim Students Have Put Me In Sorrow By Killing My Friend by Nobody: 9:07pm On Apr 01, 2007 |
davidylan: That is my greatest fear. I would love to be proven wrong. |
| Re: Gombe Muslim Students Have Put Me In Sorrow By Killing My Friend by Nobody: 9:08pm On Apr 01, 2007 |
Happy Palm Sunday to you david.All these pentecostals,I bet you don't even know what palm Sunday signifies in the Christian calender. |
| Re: Gombe Muslim Students Have Put Me In Sorrow By Killing My Friend by Nobody: 9:11pm On Apr 01, 2007 |
Mamaosisi, thanks o! Happy palm sunday to you too. I didnt know it was palm sunday until i turned on the Tv this morning. My uncle had to call to remind me easter was going to be this next weekend. Na wa for us sef. We were busy ferreting out the "extremist minority" to remember to wave palm fronds. |
| Re: Gombe Muslim Students Have Put Me In Sorrow By Killing My Friend by Nobody: 9:23pm On Apr 01, 2007 |
In my Church today which is pentecostal,there was no mention of palm Sunday. I miss my Childhood Anglican days.We would have woven arched palm at the entrance of the church,palms everywhere and our little woven palm crosses as we sing "Hosanna,Hosanna,blessed is he that comes in the name of the Lord" and we sunday schoolers would match around the perimeter of the church. For our Muslim brothers,Palm Sunday is a week before Easter and commemorates the triumphant entry of Christ into Jerusalem, a week before the crucifixion. In case anyone is reading from Gombe or Zamfara,please don't slaughter innocent Children thinking they are declaring a Christian Jihad . |
| Re: Gombe Muslim Students Have Put Me In Sorrow By Killing My Friend by Nobody: 9:30pm On Apr 01, 2007 |
Gone are the days. Kai! Old age sometimes is not very nice o. No running around to catch a glimpse of donkey riders on the streets. Hopefully palm fronds are not part of the quran so my christian folks are safe for today. |
| Re: Gombe Muslim Students Have Put Me In Sorrow By Killing My Friend by drixie: 10:38pm On Apr 01, 2007 |
@buluti and babyosisi i have note posted a reply to ur question because i'm still trying to put together a good explanation that would put you beyond doubt about Islam's stance on using violence to defend it because i know even after i answer the particular question. others are still coming. @davidylan since you have made up your mind about ALL muslims as fools who foolishly follow a religion that openly proclaims violence and live their lives whilst satisfying their inner desires through the shedding of blood, i dont think u deserve any explanation whatsoever. I will like u to always remember this. humans have always been commiting atrocities against one another and in the process looking for moral justification for. there was a time in england and other parts of europe when women were burnt at the stake simply because they wore men's clothing especially trousers. there was a time when soldiers killed people on the streets just because the pope was passing by and they were blocking his way.i hate making comparisons but i just have to tell u this and let it dwell on your conscience. |
| Re: Gombe Muslim Students Have Put Me In Sorrow By Killing My Friend by Nobody: 10:45pm On Apr 01, 2007 |
davidylan:
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| Re: Gombe Muslim Students Have Put Me In Sorrow By Killing My Friend by Nobody: 10:47pm On Apr 01, 2007 |
drixie: That you need plenty of time to "put together a good explanation" is enough evidence that most of you have no clue about your religion. The "moderate" muslims have for long been living under the false illusion that theirs was a religion of "peace", now that the "extremist minority" have exposed the REAL nature of islam as one of violence and intolerance everyone is left desperately clutching at straws. drixie: There is a significant difference here in ur "comparisons": None of those killings were done in the name of Jesus, they are NOT sanctioned by the bible and condoned by the "moderate majority". |
| Re: Gombe Muslim Students Have Put Me In Sorrow By Killing My Friend by drixie: 10:51pm On Apr 01, 2007 |
egoldman: I feel very sick and disgusted when i hear these kind of news whereby some sick useless people commit atrocities and still say they are muslims. the quran clearly condemns violence and also sectarianism. Its is clearly shown in the verse below that any one who forms a sect from islam is no more a muslim. In the Name of Allah, The Benevolent, The Merciful And verily this Brotherhood of yours is a single Brotherhood and I am your Lord and Cherisher: therefore fear Me (and no other). But people have cut off their affair (of unity) between them into sects: each party rejoices in that which is with itself. But leave them in their confused ignorance for a time. Do they think that because We have granted them abundance of wealth and sons We would hasten them on in every good? Nay they do not understand. Verily those who live in awe for fear of their Lord; Those who believe in the Signs of their Lord; Those who join not (in worship) partners with their Lord; And those who dispense their charity with their hearts full of fear because they will return to their Lord It is these who hasten in every good work and these who are foremost in them. On no soul do We place a burden greater than it can bear: before Us is a record which clearly shows the truth: they will never be wronged. But their hearts are in confused ignorance of this; and there are besides that deeds of theirs which they will (continue) to do Until when We seize in Punishment those of them who received the good things of this world behold they will groan in supplication! It will be said: "Groan not in supplication this day; for ye shall certainly not be helped by Us. "My Signs used to be rehearsed to you but ye used to turn back on your heels" "In arrogance: talking nonsense about the (Qur'an) like one telling fables by night." Do they not ponder over the Word (of Allah) or has anything (new) come to them that did not come to their fathers of old? Al-Quran, Chapter 23 Al-Muminun, Verse 52-68 you can get more quotations at http://path-to-peace.com/sects.html I also implore people who want to learn about islam (not people with intention to condemn) to surf through path-to-peace.com. |
| Re: Gombe Muslim Students Have Put Me In Sorrow By Killing My Friend by Nobody: 10:54pm On Apr 01, 2007 |
You are most likely a Sunni, correct, isn't that a sect? Shias claim to be the right ones and you guys say they are wrong and you are right. What do you call that? |
| Re: Gombe Muslim Students Have Put Me In Sorrow By Killing My Friend by drixie: 11:01pm On Apr 01, 2007 |
@davidylan if i didnt read your blog, i would have had another impression about you. i would not want a full scale argument to o develop here because the points i will raise might annoy others. so give me permission to hook u up on yahoo chat. Also, I cant just sit down at my computer and explain things like this. The subject matter of the desecration of the holy quran is a sensitive topic with which i have to converse with people, study the hadith and fatwa. I would be committing sin if make any statements contradicting the hadith. Also, killings are equally not sanctioned in the Quran and neither should they be done in the name of Allah. |
| Re: Gombe Muslim Students Have Put Me In Sorrow By Killing My Friend by Nobody: 11:03pm On Apr 01, 2007 |
Ok dear,I shall wait patiently for you to find out the answer. |
| Re: Gombe Muslim Students Have Put Me In Sorrow By Killing My Friend by Nobody: 11:16pm On Apr 01, 2007 |
my dear drixie, we can sort out this issues right here on the forum where the whole world can help us out if we get stuck. No need doing it on private chat because the same answers are what a lot more folks on this site are seeking for too. We need to know what really the quran has to say about infidels, cutting of necks, jihad (not that politically correct definition of inner struggle), apes and pigs e.t.c. While you are busy consulting the hadith please bear in mind that some of ur brethren here have declared it to be fraudulent. |
| Re: Gombe Muslim Students Have Put Me In Sorrow By Killing My Friend by Nobody: 11:26pm On Apr 01, 2007 |
while we wait for the answers,do we remember the 2005 news week hoax of the desecration at guantanamo bay. Read what the Muslim authorities had to say. Sheikh Sayed Tantawi, the head of Al-Azhar in Cairo, the major center of Sunni learning[/color], called the purported desecration “a great crime,” while [color=#990000]Egypt’s mufti, Sheikh Ali Gomaa, called it “an unforgivable crime” and “aggression” on Islam’s “sacred values.” The Gulf Cooperation Council, a set of American allies, called for the “harshest punishment” so that “the dignity of Muslims” could be preserved. Officials in Gaza and Iran also waded in. This weekend, Abdul Fatah Fayeq, the senior judicial figure in Afghanistan’s Badakhshan Province, read out a statement from 300 Muslim clerics stating that President Bush should hand the culprits over to an Islamic country for punishment or else “we will launch a jihad against America.” http://www.nationalreview.com/comment/marshall200505160837.asp What would any zealous school children reading these comments think? |
| Re: Gombe Muslim Students Have Put Me In Sorrow By Killing My Friend by Nobody: 11:29pm On Apr 01, 2007 |
@ babyosisi Those could not have been muslims. They must be a part of the ever elusive "extremist minority". Islam preaches "peace"! "Moderate" muslims must be feeling "sick and disgusted" by those men who do not represent the "harmony and love" that islam promotes. |
| Re: Gombe Muslim Students Have Put Me In Sorrow By Killing My Friend by Nobody: 11:44pm On Apr 01, 2007 |
In Pakistan in 1997, Shantinagar, a Christian town of some 10,000 people, was burned to the ground after a man there was accused of tearing pages from a Koran. In the Netherlands last fall, the documentary producer Theo Van Gogh was butchered after he produced a documentary Submission featuring Koranic verses on women’s bodies. |
| Re: Gombe Muslim Students Have Put Me In Sorrow By Killing My Friend by Nobody: 11:48pm On Apr 01, 2007 |
If I walked through Nashville Tennesse or Aba and some youths pointed at me and accused me falsely of tearing and burning the Bible,I can assure you nothing will happen to me. But if I walked down the street in Bauchi and a group of youths pointed and accused me of tearing and burning a Koran,only God can deliver me. Why is it so? where is the peace and mercy that you folks talk about? that is the issue we have. |
| Re: Gombe Muslim Students Have Put Me In Sorrow By Killing My Friend by Nobody: 11:53pm On Apr 01, 2007 |
Babyosisi, na wa o. Cant you see the "peace" in islam? It is evident in Iraq, Lebanon, Somalia, Sudan, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Nigeria, Indonesia, Ethiopia!! Islam is a religion of "peace"! It does not matter if violence and intolerance are pillars of the religion. If muslims say it is a religion of "peace" even when they are busy slaughtering us and carrying away our wives as war booty then it must be so. Allah must not be questioned. |
| Re: Gombe Muslim Students Have Put Me In Sorrow By Killing My Friend by buluti(m): 1:57am On Apr 02, 2007 |
[I just wonder where the known islamic scholars who have been teaching islam such as babs787 and mukina2 are, they should have these answers on their finger tips. drixie: In response to your quote above it is not my intention to make you sin, so if its too dificult a subject you can leave it honestly. But if you ask me this is where the problem lies no matter the sensitivity of a topic in religion people should be free to express themselves, such is the degree of fear in the muslims that no muslim apart from you has attempted to say anything. Am sure you have read christain debates in here and seen were fellow christains tell others to chill when they bring the "i can't talk" attitude because of judgement and sin, am so shocked that there is no single muslim who can venture out, logically then i really shouldnt be surprised at the behaviours exhibited by the "extremist" i.e. the killings and babaric behaviour , using the muslims in here as a sub sample analysing their behaviour tells me already that it is the level of exposure and perhaps education that has created restrain in them when it comes to core islamic issues, u guys are civilised. mukina2 forexample is an arsenal fan that tells of the influence that has helped shaped her opinions. Contrast with the semi illiterate and not so enlightened islamic student eg those that have attended ONLY koranic schools with no exposure or external influence they would logically lack the restraint you guys exhibit until it can be shown otherwise i cannot agree with the notion that ISLAM IS A RELIGION OF PEACE it just can't be. And also it is unfair to label the uneducated "extremist" just because they have not had the opportunities you guys have had, they are just following instructions, they don't know better. My conclusion is based on the fact that if you consider other faiths that the followers lack exposure as well i.e. reverend fathers that from child hood have only been in catholic schools through to the seminary till they get ordained, they don't act VIOLENTLY, i have met hindu monks from India that it was their first time ever outside India and the Hindu temple they were born, educated and lived their lifes in the hindu temple, their simplicity to life, kindness and opinions baffled me that i called myself a born again christain. |
| Re: Gombe Muslim Students Have Put Me In Sorrow By Killing My Friend by Nobody: 4:00am On Apr 02, 2007 |
Christians can debate Christian issues freely because Christianity is compatible with freedom of speech and democracy. The Episcopal Church in America ordained a gay Bishop and some join gay couples but Bible believing Christians know this is against the Bible,The scriptures condemn homosexuality,we condemn such acts but we would not seek to kill them to sanitize Christianity,that is the difference.They are not Christians in any shape or form but our God does not require that we kill them to appease him,he is no shango. Islam on the other hand would kill any one who calls himself gay and if he ever mentions Allah on his lips,his death will be swifter than he anticipated. Islam preaches an eye for an eye and to argue or ask questions is equivalent to doubting Allah,a great sin punishable by death so Buluti that's why they are not quick to condemn what the whole world condemns because sometimes they may be going against Allah. It is safer for them to point finger at "christian atrocities" as plausible defence than answer the questions. This has been my experience with them on nairaland. I do feel for them sometimes,it must be hard to attempt to justify what you know in your inner conscience is evil but you have been taught to accept it as good,as your faith afterall allah knows best. No other religion kills its apostates. No other religion sanctions stonings No other religion cuts off hands and fingers for petty thefts None other stones an adulteress to death while shouting that "God is great" How can that God be great and show no mercy on a sinner and gives her no chance at repentance. No other religion has such rage an anger to it's "violaters" Did any Christians plot to kill the author of Da vinci code or the actors? Did anyone kill the writers of jesus Christ superstar and other blasphemous movies and books? Christianity calls for true peace and love for your neighbor. The Bible asks us to love our neighbors as we love ourselves. If a Christian killed a Muslim and a Muslim asks me why,it would take me half a second to condemn the individual and back it up with Scripture. My greatest fear is that Islam is very different and some of its teachings are scary to us non Muslims. Why would a religion supposedly of an almighty God refer to Christians and Jews as apes and pigs. Any wonder,we can be killed at a whim since it's easier to kill someone you've already been programmed to believe is an ape. There has to be a change in that curriculum because until that happens,we will yet mourn several others. |
| Re: Gombe Muslim Students Have Put Me In Sorrow By Killing My Friend by Nobody: 4:22am On Apr 02, 2007 |
Chocolate Jesus as a Lesson in Religious tolerance. At 1.8m and weighing more than 90kg, the sculpture of Jesus Christ to be unveiled in Manhattan during Holy Week was bound to make an impact. Add to that the fact that it is made purely of milk chocolate, and that the figure's Instruments are on full display and you have the ingredients of a religious spat. The Catholic League, an organization of religious conservatives with 300,000 members, has boycotted the hotel in which the artwork, My Sweet Lord, will go on display. The group has called on 500 other religious groups -- including Protestant, Jewish, Muslim and Buddhist with a combined reach of millions -- to shun the Roger Smith hotel. Sculptor Cosimo Cavallaro, 45, is known for his large-scale installations. In 1999 he covered the interior of Room 114 of the Washington Jefferson hotel in New York with cheddar cheese Of course i do not blame the sculptor, he is fully aware that Christianity preaches turning the other cheek so he is free to build a chocolate sculpture of our Lord. He would not dare to build a sculpture of Muhammad not to talk of attempting one on allah. Now assume for a moment that the chocolate sculpture had been one of Muhammad, what would have been the muslim response? Would Sculptor Cosimo Cavallaro have had to go into hiding? Would the hotel have been burnt down, US embassies bombed, US flags burned while chanting "death to Isreal, death to America"? Would Bush have had to appologise profusely for "insulting the sensitivity" of an otherwise "peaceful" religion? Would this board have been filled with "moderate" muslims crying themselves hoarse over injustice? Would the Katsina house of assembly have passed a law to boycott all forms of American products? Would my christian brothers and sisters in the north have had to run for their lives over something they have no control over? Would we have lost another poor innocent nun in Somalia? All these from a religion that prides itself as one that means "PEACE"? |
| Re: Gombe Muslim Students Have Put Me In Sorrow By Killing My Friend by Nobody: 4:38am On Apr 02, 2007 |
drixie: 1. The incidence in Gombe has absolutely nothing to do sectarian violence! It is a religious violence period! 2. What again does Allah say to do with those who are "no more muslims"? Let them go or kill them? 3. There was no evidence that the pupils were sick or mentally retarded, they clearly where in command of their faculties. To blame this on their mental state is ridiculous. The question is what have these children been indoctrinated with that makes them lose their regard for human life that others hold sacrosant? Why have the same muslim leaders who threatened fire and brimstone over the removal of ajami inscriptions on the naira become criminally silent on this issue? Where is the sultan? Does he only speak out on financial reforms? drixie: It is sad that everytime muslims are challenged about their religion they suddenly go ferreting for spurious websites. Is there no muslim who can sufficiently interprete the quran on their own? If christians brought 1 website for every questioned asked on this board we would have had a whole directory by now. |
| Re: Gombe Muslim Students Have Put Me In Sorrow By Killing My Friend by BECCIA(m): 5:38am On Apr 02, 2007 |
The only system where ISLAM can work is a unitary system comprising only of its adherents. It makes better sense for its followers to be its victims. Its teachings are not consistent with Religious pluralism. There is a quote from the Bible concerning the generation of Ishmael: Gen 16 : 12; " And he (Ishmael) will be a wild man; his hand will be against every man, and every man's hand against him; and he shall dwell in the presence of all his brethren." Islam is only fulfilling prophecy, so don't be surprised the kind of spirit that rules over its adherents. I'm afraid that until that LIGHT shines over all the world, ISLAM WILL ALWAYS BE A PAIN TO OUR WORLD. However, that spirit of violence CAN be tamed.IT MUST BE TAMED IN NIGERIA. |
| Re: Gombe Muslim Students Have Put Me In Sorrow By Killing My Friend by 9ja4eva: 8:57pm On Apr 02, 2007 |
Yeah it must be tamed in Nigeria really.The Government needs to do something now cos is rather sad. |
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