Lol.

I don't know which is funnier. His post or resurrecting a dead thread
Anyways, where's user 009 ? Cool discourse devoid of usual tantrums and insults.

So Chinenye, arw you saying that Isu is older than Nri just because Orlu claims authochthony? ? I guess they spranged up from the earth! I know what. The first man on earth dropped in Orlu yet there is no evidence of ancient landmark nor ancient culture. And you need to stop trying to link Igboukwu to Isu! They have very different traditions. You can go ahead and keep basing your judgement on hear-say.

your write ups are filled with igboic lies and propaganda that can not move my people

1. if you want me not to write here , please dont mention ika in any of your igbo propaganda as i know that you have never been to ika land and you are just an igbo man ,you dont even know which culture of ika people came from benin or came from igbo ,for your information our culture in ika is 70 percent derived from benin , 10 percent from igbo and 20 percent indegenous.
2. where there is good similarity might be in language with igbos and our language as it stands today is called ika ,which is a mix of igbo and edo languages.
3. the relationship between ika and benin did not come from benin conquering ika as benin only became an empire under obas ewuare, orhogbua and ozolua during the late 15th century , in fact it was on record that benin conquered agbor and most ika area around early 17th century ,but agbor and other ikas migrated from benin during the ogiso era ,as at that time benin was not an empire , it was still very small and it is probably over thousands of years ago ,let me give you few examples to educate you------------
1. agbon now called agbor was first called ominijie thousands of years ago and her first rulers were called ogele, and the names of some of these rulers were agho, agbonzegbe, iyetor, ohunwangho, ikpade igbenojie, and these were clearly benin names, the capital of ominijie was called orhue ,and that is another benin names,
2. owa had her first migration from people of ikoha in ovia around 7th century ,from benin , led by a man called adagba and later another man from benin called ugbasogun a warrior and the first ruler of owa oyibu in 11th century was odion aigbedion, before odogun came from uteokpu in late 12th century and conquered them to establish the first dynasty of a unified owa kingdom, followed by obi igbedigin no gidigan in 13th century ,my ancestors whose children were ibiuzugbe,imade, osuhon, omigie, ovwiagbon ,osagie, imansuehi,imansuagbor, agbontaen and others , there were clearly benin names in owa around 13th century.so this has established the fact that ika people had contact with edo people even before benin conquered ika.
3. our villages were called ebon,idumu and ogbe, and our kingship clearly is of benin uselu style from father to son,and our chiefthancy titles is just a replica of benin titles,and our cultural festivals were 80 percent benin and about 20 percent igbo .
4. in 1930, the great benin historian classified ika people as benin migrants who left benin in 12th century ,read a short history of benin by jacob egharevba ,
5. also we have seen the works of professor onwuejeogu from igbuso who mainly wrote and seeked and said ika people were igbos and these works also pointed out benin migrations of ika people too.
6. we also know that the family names of majority of ika people are edo names ,and from these names we see benin and ishan reflected in them.
7. our villages are also names mostly in accordance with benin traditions, however the ika people do not seek to say that they are benins but we respect our brotherly relationship with them, also we also respect our relationship with igbos ,but we are simply of ika ethnic nationality ,different from igbo or benin.we do not want to belong to any othese two groups .but we love our ika ethnic nation.

Chèri, agbotaen, onye era ki ị wụ?

006:

Wow! where's the bolded from? I've never read such thing before. Where did you get it from?
Read about Nri/Eri civilization, it's everywhere . Igbo-Ukwu was actually the capital of Nri.

I don't know much about Orlu, I only interchanged who was first from your initially post. "So maybe Ama-Igbo and Igbo-Ukwu are Orlu offshoot settlements."
Since Nri, which is much older than Orlu, knew themselves as Igbo (Igbo-Ukwu) and Orlu calling themselves “UmuIgbo”, then it means Igbos knew themselves as Igbo.


_{Is Ngwa from Orlu?}

I know this is old, but I don't think there was a capital.

ezeagu:

I know this is old, but I don't think there was a capital.

It was a heavilly influenced Nri offshoot...I don't know about being a capital but it was clearly a very important Nri town.

then mr igbo , do not mention ika in your igbo clan rubbish , as once i find that name , i will write

agbotaen: then mr igbo , do not mention ika in your igbo clan rubbish , as once i find that name , i will write

Since when have you become the mouthpiece of the IkaIgbo?.

I think the ancient Benin had Igbos in it. Though we've not been able to gain any evidence, I believe the Igbo language found in Igbanke is enough evidence and again the claim of Benin descent by a sizeable population of Igbos with their progenitors having Igbo names and titles. Igbos are not alone in this as Ijaws are also involved. The ancient Benin very likely had Edos as administrators, Ijaws as sailors and Igbos as farmers and service providers. I also believe they all kept their languages and spoke Edo as a second language. Something must have happened towards the end of last millenium that lead to a mass movement of people away from a previously larger Benin and moving across the Niger.

1. is it proper for igbos to always lie and do vain propaganda like nri is oldest culture in nigeria and nri is just from 9th century to 1930 , it ended there.
2. benin existed as a kingdom more than 2 thousand years ago but benin empire spanned 14th to 19th century and an empire is greater than a kingdom.
3. the art work found in iwoeleru in ondo state dates more than 2,000 years ,while nok in plateau area is oldest art work found in nigeria it is about 10,000 years old , and so how does nri become the oldest ? or is it because of the art works found there that is not up to one thousand years?
4. ife artworks is older than nri , and in some stories it is said that benin craftmen went to ife to learn,but it is benin kingdom that produced the greatest nigerian art works sort after all over the world.

Abagworo: I think the ancient Benin had Igbos in it. Though we've not been able to gain any evidence, I believe the Igbo language found in Igbanke is enough evidence and again the claim of Benin descent by a sizeable population of Igbos with their progenitors having Igbo names and titles. Igbos are not alone in this as Ijaws are also involved. The ancient Benin very likely had Edos as administrators, Ijaws as sailors and Igbos as farmers and service providers. I also believe they all kept their languages and spoke Edo as a second language. Something must have happened towards the end of last millenium that lead to a mass movement of people away from a previously larger Benin and moving across the Niger.

This is a nice try, but Benin's past is not some blank slate or perpetually gray area.

There were a few outside elements, of varying degrees of significance to the culture and society, as with almost anywhere else in Nigeria, but never anything like what some of you guys try to make it out to be in your various claims and conjectures. Thinking that the history and reality of the kingdom is unwritten or unknown and just stating anything is easy when one hasn't bothered to do any real investigation into the matter. Anyway, a lot of Benin soldiers, traders and adventurers ventured out in different directions and spread out and influenced different groups (some Igbos included), even going to faraway places outside of modern Nigeria.

Something must have happened towards the end of last millenium that lead to a mass movement of people away from a previously larger Benin and moving across the Niger.

well this at least can be examined.

an european explorer spoke of a migration out of benin in the 16th or 17th century.

he didnt give a reason however.

the portuguese might have known more but unfortunately

1. the records were destroyed i think

2. such info might not have been recorded.

my guess is there was mass movement into as well as out of benin.

^^^
There's an article which even discusses some of the relevant quotes from European explorers about 17th century migrations out of Benin that has already been published. In fact, I've referenced the article on this forum before. It's called "Civil War in the Kingdom of Benin, 1689-1721: Continuity or Political Change?" and it's by Paula Ben-Amos Girshick and John K. Thornton.

The issue has been examined by scholars interested in the issue. Comments like Abagworo's are precisely the point of my comment above. It's not necessary to throw up blind guesses about issues relating to certain aspects of the history of a place, subtly or overtly tweaked as these "guesses" are toward certain ethnic agendas, when more serious researchers have already given a real and dispassionate analysis of the issue. It gives the impression to more naive readers that everything is unknown and everything is so mysterious that any claim or guess can be put forward after only the most minimal effort when this simply isn't the case.

not sure what you're referring to, and neither should you see my post as an endorsement of abagworo's own [i hardly even know most of his posts, i just assume they'll be mostly igbo-related].

neither have i been following the thread.

the part i noticed was what i quoted and which i feel should be looked into.

are you saying civil war was what caused the mass migration observed during that time and recorded by europeans?

tpia@:
are you saying civil war was what caused the mass migration observed during that time and recorded by europeans?

For the 17th century, yes.

For the 16th century, I would need to see the actual quote(s), but yes it's very likely the cause in that century as well, because of the Benin vs. Udo conflicts, which were essentially due to a succession dispute that grew into a war.

ok then.

there was no mention of war that i remember, from that source, but i'll examine the account more, another time. Not sure if or where i can get it, i read it some years ago and not sure which book it was.

1. igbankes speak ika and not igbo , all your propaganda will not work as igbankes and their fellow ika rejected igbo long before , so whatever you are saying will not work , and i want you to try it out , go to an ika meeting and tell them that ika is igbo and see if they do not throw you out ,
perhaps the two communities in ika where you will see people claiming to be igbo is igbodo and ekwuoma and that informed their support for biafra even against majority of ika rejection biafra or being igbo , but today there is a big problem even in igbodo as the communnity has chased away the igbo wife of their obi , and they emphatically said they dont want their heir aparent to be begotten by an igbo lady.\

igbodo is a community made up of different migratory flow .

agbotaen:
1.why do igbo people like telling lies ? is is their birth right , when have you seen a ika man saying he is a bini man? or is it because we reject igbo ethnicity that this lies and propaganda are sustained ?
2. ika is ika ethnic group , we have said it may be i should make it bold WE ARE NOT BINI AND WE ARE NOT IGBO.
3. WE ARE IKA ETHNIC GROUP , OUR FATHERS MADE THIS DECLARATION IN 1930- when bini told british they own agbor and our people told them that ika is seperate from all ethnic group in southern nigeria.
at another time majority of our people spoke via action during the civil war by saying we are not igbo .and so biafra was expelled.
4. ika is a heterogenous group that came together, after lots of intermarriage and shared culture , some ika people came from bini, ishan,igbo,ukwani,aniocha and even yoruba and igala areas into ika land .but we do know that the original founders of most ika communities are bini and ishan people and later igbo also found some areas ,that is what we say and the names of this founders still bear bini testimonies and the names of most of our forefathers can bear testimonies to it.but we have never said we are bini and we are not igbo , but we are ika.
5. we do know that in the last 100 years ika came under lots of igbo influence due to the british using igbo teachers and church men to preach the gospel ,so but that also does not make us igbos.
6. we have ogua/onu ika as our highest socio-cultural group , while igbos have ohaneze ndigbo.and yes we have some ika people whose ancestory came from igbo land especially in the eastern axis of ika land such as igbodo and ekwuoma who believe they are igbos , well that is their right ,but the majority of ikas have spoken and we say we are not igbo,but ika.
7.our language is called ika and we do not call it igbo , it is an amalgam of edo, igbo, other indigenous language and even yoruba words.so we call it ika , and we also have some ika people that speak an edo language called ozara.
8. there is no amount of sustained propaganda that will make majority of ikas to see themselves as igbo , so the igbos better learn and toe the line of reason, benins have long recognised ika as a seperate ethnicity .
if it is similarity of language that determines an ethnic group then isoko will be uhrobo, and ishan will be bini, and itsekiri will be yoruba . so the arguement that ika ,speak a kind of igbo is already defeated .and americans will become britons or british because they speak english.
9. the culture, traditions of origin have told us where our forefathers come from and we know it ,but today we are ika ethnic nation.
10.as many people who care to listen let them know that bini, yoruba, ika , igbo,and the rest ethnic groups were founded or made to be founded by european influence and so these are all man made and it is for politics , and so any group of people have the right to form their ethnic group ,if they know and believe that certain things bind them, or which nigerian ethnicity existed 250 years ago ? the answer is none

tnks my brother man.U R PRODLY ika..i m pROUDLY ukwuani/ndokwa. I wonda d problems with igbo people 4rm d south east..i observed dat its d aniocha/oshimili group of people who r purely igbos that r tryin to sell our ethnicity to igbos...for their information im not igbo or delta igbo..im am proudly Ndokwa/Ukwuani.we r a seperate ethnic group. D igbos r too greedy.i advice dem to clean up dat fake map of igbo land. After all our people were not counted as igbos but as Ndokwa/ukwuani ethnic nationality..so let them not get confused about our ethnicity.we r different 4rm them in nature,food,music,tradition,character.tnks