and please help out Barack Obama and the rest of congress.

And please no one should mention that obscene word called "Amnesty". I don't support any ideas that either stick the middle finger or give a slap in the face of hardworking legal immigrants, legal residents (and even citizens), who spent years and thousands of dollars doing it the right way.

I also think the oft mentioned "path to citizenship" is a load of you know what. Illegal is illegal. You cannot reward someone for breaking the law and there must be consequences for committing a crime and breaking the laws of a Land. On the other hand, deporting all 50 million of the illegals is virtually impossible and not really a reasonable solution. Indeed, illegal immigrants make up a significant portion of industries such as construction, food service, cleaning services etc. aka "jobs Americans don't want to do" (not true if you ask me).

What are your solutions fellow NLders?

@topic,

1. None of the Illegals should be granted citizenship. You shouldn't reward acts of illegality with citizenship.
2. Provide the illegals with work permits that should be renewed every 5 years.
3. None of them should be offered a job until it can be proven that no citizen is skilled enough and available for the job.
4. They should never be allowed to vote. If they are here for economic reasons as we are told to believe, why participate in the political process?

The above points addresses the humanitarian concerns while been realistic of the problem of deporting all the criminal aliens.

Indeed, illegal immigrants make up a significant portion of industries such as construction, food service, cleaning services etc. aka "jobs Americans don't want to do" (not true if you ask me).

I wonder why you woul doubt this statement. I dont know about Boston but in the South, Its these guys that cut lawns, Work the dirty factory jobs, Most people who clean the restrooms are hispanics in the organisations I have worked with.

3.  None of them should be offered a job until it can be proven that no citizen is skilled enough and available for the job.

This one wuld be difficult. What kind of job wont you find someone skilled enough in 300million people? I think employers should pick from the pool based on how competitive the desired wage is.

If Americans want to get paid $40/hr for cutting lawns and working in Taco cabanas and illegals offer to do it for $10/hr should corporations be forced to pay the $40 because There are Americans who can do it?

I support your other opinions though.
No citizenship,
5yr renewable work permit ( And you must show your tax returns that shows you were working or evidence of job search or doing something productive in the economy) Even if its going to school.

They must all learn and speak English.

They shouldnt be allowed to vote

3 Illegal immigrants discussing illegal immigration. . . . priceless!!!

@dayokanu,

I wonder why you woul doubt this statement. I dont know about Boston but in the South, Its these guys that cut lawns, Work the dirty factory jobs, Most people who clean the restrooms are hispanics in the organisations I have worked with

I am in agreement with JeSoul on this matter. The only reason why Americans are not doing those jobs is because they do not pay well enough.  If the pay was up to $15/hr, I am sure people will readily take it up.  But as it is, the availability of abundant cheap labor drives the wages down which makes it less attractive to people who would otherwise do the job.

If Americans want to get paid $40/hr for cutting lawns and working in Taco cabanas and illegals offer to do it for $10/hr should corporations be forced to pay the $40 because There are Americans who can do it?

The market has a way of correcting itself. At $40/hr, very likely that I would even take up the job on a part-time basis !  The high wage will drive more people to the profession which will eventually lead to higher supply of manpower than demand.  This will drive down the wages till an equilibrium is reached.

This one wuld be difficult. What kind of job wont you find someone skilled enough in 300million people? I think employers should pick from the pool based on how competitive the desired wage is.

But there is no level playing field where illegals are made to compete with legal residents.  Besides, the over-abundance of these human resources will necessaily drive wages down leading to lower standard of living for all concerned.  Nigeria, and most countries have laws that prohibit employing foreigners to do the job that a local resident has the skill and knowledge to do. The same safe-guard can be put in place in this case.

Ibime:

3 Illegal immigrants discussing illegal immigration. . . . priceless!!!

^^^^^^^ " "

But there is no level playing field where illegals are made to compete with legal residents. Besides, the over-abundance of these human resources will necessaily drive wages down leading to lower standard of living for all concerned. Nigeria, and most countries have laws that prohibit employing foreigners to do the job that a local resident has the skill and knowledge to do. The same safe-guard can be put in place in this case.

Dont you think this would fore employers to outsource the jobs outside America and the country would not only lose the wages to citizens but also the tax from the companies

Ibime:

3 Illegal immigrants discussing illegal immigration. . . . priceless!!!

See this refugee . . . your elders are talking and you too want to put mouth. Isn't there a yard somewhere you should be servicing?

Tayo-D:

@topic,

1. None of the Illegals should be granted citizenship. You shouldn't reward acts of illegality with citizenship.

100% agree.

2. Provide the illegals with work permits that should be renewed every 5 years.

Sounds like a reasonable start. They would be charged for these permits? including renewals? and taxed on their income as well too right?

3. None of them should be offered a job until it can be proven that no citizen is skilled enough and available for the job.

hehe . . . Tayo, there will never be a job that no citizen isn't skilled enough to do lol. So is this a trojan horse law that will ensure illegals never jobs? Citizens/legal residents/immigrants should always get the priority anyways.

4. They should never be allowed to vote. If they are here for economic reasons as we are told to believe, why participate in the political process?

Well if they're not allowed to become citizens, how else will Obama raise an extra army of 50 milla voters in order to change the law and remove term limits so he can be president forever? Jokes aside, I think the no-voting thing is a no-brainer for reasonable people.


So Tayo, are you saying the govt. will continue to issue work permits without some kind of term or goal or limit placed on it? what will be done with new illegals who arrive after such a law is passed? cos there is a constant flow everyday. Also what about illegals that have been here 20+yrs? what about illegals that commit crimes? Just curious as to your opinions. Dayokanu feel free to take a stab at the questions too. Thanks.

Sounds like a reasonable start. They would be charged for these permits? including renewals? and taxed on their income as well too right?

Sure they should be charged. Currently the USCIS charge for forms. Their income should be taxed as with the American citizen since they are making the money on American soil.

hehe . . . Tayo, there will never be a job that no citizen isn't skilled enough to do lol. So is this a trojan horse law that will ensure illegals never jobs? Citizens/legal residents/immigrants should always get the priority anyways.

This one tricky. Why give them work permit and tactically deny them jobs. This might indirectly be giving legal residence to people later deny job therefore they take to crime.

Anyone that has a right to work should compete for jobs fairly with others

So Tayo, are you saying the govt. will continue to issue work permits without some kind of term or goal or limit placed on it? what will be done with new illegals who arrive after such a law is passed? cos there is a constant flow everyday. Also what about illegals that have been here 20+yrs? what about illegals that commit crimes? Just curious as to your opinions. Dayokanu feel free to take a stab at the questions too

Yeah work permit renewal is just fine, Anyone that comes here after the law too should be subjected to the same work permit only rule.

Illegal who have been here for 20yrs too should go through the same work permit thing.

Anyone that commit crimes should be taken to jail and punished according to American laws

and oh . . . the only thing corporations should be forced to do is obey the law. Let the market dictate the prices. And don't forget the Americans asking for $40/hr also pay at least 30% in taxes, bringing them to what ~$25, while the illegals do not pay any tax on their $10.

dayokanu:

Sure they should be charged. Currently the USCIS charge for forms. Their income should be taxed as with the American citizen since they are making the money on American soil.

Its even close to extortion self lol.

This one tricky. Why give them work permit and tactically deny them jobs. This might indirectly be giving legal residence to people later deny job therefore they take to crime.

Yeah that's the problem I see with that point.

Anyone that has a right to work should compete for jobs fairly with others

You're right. The problem is that one is a citizen/legal resident, while the other is not. Citizens should always get first dibs.

Illegal who have been here for 20yrs too should go through the same work permit thing.

Anyone that commit crimes should be taken to jail and punished according to American laws

So who gets deported? there has to be deportation factored in somewhere here. We're already at the breaking point, if the illegal population continues to grow at the same rate, the propositions above would not be exectutable - I don't think. There needs to be some kind of sophisticated filter system to keep the best and ship off the worst.

Dayo, click on my profile and "lastest posts" to see my last post to you. That useless spambot has removed 2 of them. https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?action=profile;u=99271;sa=showPosts

@topic.

Migration is a natural and necessary act for mankind. We go where resources and chances of survival is plentiful.

To grow and prosper domestically, USA over the centuries, went around the globe destroying growth and prosperity of native people in foreign lands, near and far.

USA is currently over-populated by people who migrated here in accord with natural instinct for survival. Whether they are legal or illegal is a consequential outcome of their struggle.

If those foreign lands become increasingly resourceful and stable, their natives will be incensed to emigrate back.

My solution will be that USA develop a foreign policy that seek to re-distribute resources, growth and prosperity around the globe. This will help its over-burden domestic programs to function satisfactorily for its own citizens.

Canadians are not as eager to come to US illegaly as are Mexicans and both share common boundaries with US. This is because of the great disparity in growth and resources for both Mexico and Canada.

^^ you posted some sense there.

Ibime:

3 Illegal immigrants discussing illegal immigration. . . . priceless!!!

lol i know. If the US government implemented the policies the likes of Tayo-D are crying out for he'd still be in Lagos today.

@Negro,

Unlike tpiah, I see absolutely no sense to what you wrote above. You have only made several assertions that cannot be backed up with facts.

How old is the US that you claim it has over the centuries, been going across the globe to destroy the growth and prosperity of others? What alternate universe do you live in?

How can you ask the US to re-distribute wealth all across the globe and be responsible for other nations when it finds it hard to even sustain its social obligations?  Have you checked recently to see that the ratio of the US debt to GDP is greater than 1?

What natural resource are these people seeking here that is not available in their country? Mexico's problem is not its lack of natural resources as the US or Canada, but political corruption in high places.  Do you also want us to redistribute our politicians around the world to take care of the problem?  Or should we invade evrey nation like we did in Iraq to install our kind of democracy and impose our morality upon them?

My solution will be that USA develop a foreign policy that seek to re-distribute resources, growth and prosperity around the globe. This will help its over-burden domestic programs to function satisfactorily for its own citizens.

Why should the USA be responsible for development of other countries? Dont they have brains to develop their countries?

Jesoul,

My earlier post was gobbled by the spambot

Tayo-D:

@Negro,

Unlike tpiah, I see absolutely no sense to what you wrote above. You have only made several assertions that cannot be backed up with facts.

How old is the US that you claim it has over the centuries, been going across the globe to destroy the growth and prosperity of others? What alternate universe do you live in?

How can you ask the US to re-distribute wealth all across the globe and be responsible for other nations when it finds it hard to even sustain its social obligations?  Have you checked recently to see that the ratio of the US debt to GDP is greater than 1?

What natural resource are these people seeking here that is not available in their country? Mexico's problem is not its lack of natural resources as the US or Canada, but political corruption in high places.  Do you also want us to redistribute our politicians around the world to take care of the problem?  Or should we invade evrey nation like we did in Iraq to install our kind of democracy and impose our morality upon them?

you've made some valid points here but the fact remains that if developed countries do not promote infrastructural and economic development in the third world, then they cant, in all honesty, continue complaining about migration from those places.

you've made some valid points here but the fact remains that if developed countries do not promote infrastructural and economic development in the third world, then they cant, in all honesty, continue complaining about migration from those places.

But how can you hold the developed country responsible for the wastefulness and misappropriation and lack of foresight of the third world.

While American politicians are brainstorming on making their own country better, Mobutu, IBB, Abacha, OBJ, Charles taylor, Idi Amin and numerous African leaders were stealing the money, Now America have to now pay for the irresponsibility of other countries.

You can as well tell those countries who want US to promote infrastructural development in their country to give up their independence so America can use their land as a test pad for Nuclear missiles

Give me the "Arizona" model anytime, anyday.
If you want to live the "American" dream, fine.
Pay your way. No more "Gucci/Escalade mommas and babies".

Time for Americans to take care of Americans and stop being a 'farter Xmas'.



Obama needs to get serious and stop kitty-footing with the immigration reforms package.

That should teach him never to promise what he cannot deliver.

Tayo and Dayokanu,

Here is a list of few countries where US, acting alone or in treaty with major European partners, have gone in and re-distributed resources and growth:

South Africa
Kenya
Morrocco
South Korea
Israel
Brazil
Argentina

____________________________

Tayo, what did you major in? Please dont tell me economics or pol. science. . .and it had better not be international relations!

davidylan:

lol i know. If the US government implemented the policies the likes of Tayo-D are crying out for he'd still be in Lagos today.

For once in this forum you made me laugh. Seems your becoming rational

Negro_Ntns:

Tayo, what did you major in? Please dont tell me economics or pol. science. . .and it had better not be international relations!

His a major freelance i.d.i.o.t.

Negro_Ntns:

My solution will be that USA develop a foreign policy that seek to re-distribute resources, growth and prosperity around the globe. This will help its over-burden domestic programs to function satisfactorily for its own citizens.

My response is the same as my seniors here:

dayokanu:
But how can you hold the developed country responsible for the wastefulness and misappropriation and lack of foresight of the third world.

. . . and then when the US steps in and starts calling shots, people will start complaining America wants to take over their land and culture.

Furthermore, it is the responsibility of the leadership of any nation to do what is best for THAT nation - not the neighboring country, or one that is 1000miles away. America is responsible to only americans, likewise Nigeria is responsible to only Nigerians. When was the last time the NASS made any policy that assisted or benefitted our neighbors in Niger? or Ethiopia?

tpiah:
you've made some valid points here but the fact remains that if developed countries do not promote infrastructural and economic development in the third world, then they cant, in all honesty, continue complaining about migration from those places.

I like the tone with which you say this, but I could not disagree more. It is not the responsibility of 1st world countries to "help" 3rd world nations. We have to pick ourselves up by our bootstraps and make ourselves better.

Negro_Ntns:

Tayo and Dayokanu,

Here is a list of few countries where US, acting alone or in treaty with major European partners, have gone in and re-distributed resources and growth:

South Africa
Kenya
Morrocco
South Korea
Israel
Brazil
Argentina

I have just one question. Did the US forcefully invade any of these Nations, take over their governing bodies, act without the blessing or approval of the leadership and impose their own policies on the people?

At the end of the day every country is responsible for their own current situation and need to start looking in the mirror.

---

Dayo, I can see ur last post.

I agree with you on the learn the language part. ESL (English as a Second Language) classes are offered for free in many many community centers and colleges. However, the number of people taking advantage of them are very few. Illegal immigrants do not come here to learn english (infact some see it as a diluting of their culture/heritage) they come to work to the bone to make money. But yeah, you live in Russia, you should learn to speak russian.

Its not about 'forcing' companies to pay more - let them find the cheapest means to function - as long as it is legal! lol. You're right they could be forced to outsource to other nations. Let the market dictate, not illegal immigrants.

As for the Indians in IT and Medicine, we should not be discussing that because they are legal immigrants. Those who will create good competition within different industries we welcome with open arms.

if you are in the country illegaly as in broke the law to do so they you must face whatever legal reprimand that faces you. jail, deportation, fines what not. you CANNOT expect for one moment that ANY sevice paid for by taxes of citizens and legal imigrants will aply to you. you CANNOT expect that any special privliges will be provided for you. illegals claim that the imigration process is too hard yet it is because of people like them that has made it so. the excuse that americans dont want those jobs is bs, there is no job that they do americans wont. there is no job mowing lawns that pays $10 an hour talk less about $40. recently a hospital in philidelphia had over 400 applicants for the position of janitor - sound like americans dont want this job?

agathamari:

if you are in the country illegaly as in broke the law to do so they you must face whatever legal reprimand that faces you. jail, deportation, fines what not. you CANNOT expect for one moment that ANY sevice paid for by taxes of citizens and legal imigrants will aply to you. you CANNOT expect that any special privliges will be provided for you. illegals claim that the imigration process is too hard yet it is because of people like them that has made it so. the excuse that americans dont want those jobs is bs, there is no job that they do americans wont. there is no job mowing lawns that pays $10 an hour talk less about $40. recently a hospital in philidelphia had over 400 applicants for the position of janitor - sound like americans dont want this job?

ever heard of a certain bankrupt state called[b] California[/b]?

About the "jobs Americans don't want to do". I had remarked to Dayo about a study I read a while back that young African american males are the demographic hardest hit by illegals taking these "small small" jobs. Jaheim could've gotten the dunkin donuts job for $10.50, but Jose is getting it for $7.50. I blame neither Jose or Jaheim. I blame the employers who are breaking the law in order to make a buck.

@Negro,

Tayo and Dayokanu,

Here is a list of few countries where US, acting alone or in treaty with major European partners, have gone in and re-distributed resources and growth:

South Africa
Kenya
Morrocco
South Korea
Israel
Brazil
Argentina

So tell me, in how many of these countries do the US set up a Dept of social services to distribute aid to the citizens? Isn't everything done through the govt? Same aid given to these countries is given to Haiti, Mexico etc. Why are some prospering and others aren't? Does it have anything to do with the govt?

Tayo, what did you major in? Please dont tell me economics or pol. science. . .and it had better not be international relations!

Let me guess. You major in all of the above, baa?

@Ayatollah Ikomi,

For once in this forum you made me laugh. Seems[b] your [/b] becoming rational

Let me tell you what is not a laughing matter.  It is your inability to construct simple sentences and write them out in english.  How many times do I have to correct you on nairaland?  The word in bold should be "you're" and not "your."  I have advised you several times to use simple english when writing.  It appears that is even above your pay grade.

His a major freelance i.d.i.o.t.

Same mistake here again. The word in bold should be "He's" and not "His".  Now who is the he-goat (i.diot) here?

^^^^^^ My friend go back to your whacked opinion, that infuriates people, make them call you all sort of names to the point that makes u cry. Although you never learn, as for me an i.diot you will always be period.

And the i.diot you are will not make you understand that its not a formal website, that requires words to be written perfectly, the major idea of forums is for ideas to be shared, in any language.

I.diot u will always be, one who lacks the ability to reason constructively.

Immigration has never been a simple matter and will never be, over the years people have often migrated from one area to the other, those you call Americans today are mainly Irish migrants, those we call the British today are mainly Roman, Saxons and Viking migrants.

In todays world of rule of law, I do not support jumping the fence to get into any nation, but there are persons who make it legally to a nation but because of some change in rules or regulation or personal circumstance, find themselves without adequate documentation.

So to classify all as illegal is not right. Even among those you call illegal, one should bear in mind that the same reason that made that person with the rigth papers leave his place of birth, for a new nation is the reason that made that person who could not aquire the right papers leave his place of birth, so to threat, the latter as a common criminal which he is not is simply not right.

I do not have the solution to this, but it is an issue that should be discussed by capable minds who can reason constructively.

So please Tayo-D stay away from some issues, because you always bring your utter stupidity to fore, and its quite irritating.