Okija_juju (m)
Okija Shrine
Posts: 2183

Offline

Re: Does Anyone Know How/why So Many People From Rivers State Have English Surnames
« #29 on: Today at 01:27:48 AM »

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Does anyone know why this OP has chosen to remain a retard.

Wetin bring this leg now??

Okija_juju:

Does anyone know why this OP has chosen to remain a retard.

Wetin bring this leg now??

Thank you to everyone who has answered by questions , I appreciate your contributions.

To Okija_Juju: I am not a retard , I am an educated woman who wishes to learn more about her people-I was not raised in my country. It is better you understand where people are coming from rather than passing judgement on their intellect.

Furthermore, I hope you do not ever experience a genuinely retarded person in your life. If you did, you would think twice before writing such comments which is an offence to the mentally disabled as well everyone else.

Very disappointing.

x.

tpiah:



the two princes in question already spoke some english before they were kidnapped, due to their dealings with english slave traders [and also since they were slavers themselves]

the ghana link you posted doesnt say anything about the african women being married to european slave traders. ie the kids you mention, werent specifically said to be the children of slave traders.

When I said slave traders had their kids sent to Europe to study, I meant African ('Rivers') slave traders, the point of bringing it up was to show the early influence of Western education in what later became Rivers State which probably led to many name changes. The European slave traders didn't mix with the population of what became Southern Nigeria as much as in other places.

ezeagu:

When I said slave traders had their kids sent to Europe to study, I meant African ('Rivers') slave traders, the point of bringing it up was to show the early influence of Western education in what later became Rivers State which probably led to many name changes. The European slave traders didn't mix with the population of what became Southern Nigeria as much as in other places.

I think you should rephrase this, i don't quite understand you.

A lot of untruths, speculations and misinterpretations have gone on on this thread over a topic NONE of the respondents is directly related to. African history is largely unwritten and we are all too aware of how oral stories can change over time.

However @ezeagu, The story that some Africans went to study in England came back and gave their 'new' names to their communities is quite laughable to say the least. You quote from google books whose authors have probably done the same things respondents like Andre Uweh and Honeric01 have done on this thread which is speculations and extrapolations. Btw, Brass is in Bayelsa state and the port would have been a fishing settlement at the time therefore, would be easy for people to call it after the products gotten at the port.

European surnames in Rivers state for those that care to learn are from direct contact with European traders and nothing more(I have earlier stated how this became the norm in page 1). . .I would use Abonnema to explain my point. This town was founded in 1882 well after slave trade was abolished by the Brits and the 11 founding chiefs already had European names. These Chiefs didn't go to England for studies but had parents who dealt in slaves. Today Abonnema has Four major compounds all with English names but beside them, you still see the Kalabari names of the Parents of the chiefs that founded the town. It is therefore left for people to keep the European surname passed down from 4 generations ago or go back to the original Kalabari name.

We all learn oral history from our parents or elders and I don't think the oral history from someone in Abia state or wherever about the goings on in Rivers state is more accurate than that from a Rivers elder.

This thread asks the question HOW and WHY which I think I have answered. . .Where you might give stick is why the current inhabitants continue to use these names. This I would have to give the same reasons why Hausa's bear Arabic names and Igbos/Yorubas bear English and NOT French first names, why we are typing in English and have bread and noodles as our staple diet.

@Ow11
Didn't other regions in Nigeria had direct contact with the europeans? why didn't most of them change their names (SURNAMES) their identity, to english and foreign names? THE BINIS HAD DIRECT TRADE CONTACT with the Europeans more than any other tribes in Nigeria, yet they didn't change their IDENTITY (SURNAMES) to that of their trade partners, have you ever wondered why WHITES nd other western world never bear African names? they rather give their kids useless names than name them anything near African names?

What is CLARK?
what is Heineken?
What is Independence?
What is SMITH?

does these names have any significant meanings to you?

For Christ's sake, why would someone decides to name himself and his future generations after slave buyers, thereby killing and sending their own identity into extinction?

And what's with the English cap too if not to show that "we were once lost, but thanks to the whiteman, we have found a direction"?

honeric01:

@Ow11
Didn't other regions in Nigeria had direct contact with the europeans? why didn't most of them change their names (SURNAMES) their identity, to english and foreign names? THE BINIS HAD DIRECT TRADE CONTACT with the Europeans more than any other tribes in Nigeria, yet they didn't change their IDENTITY (SURNAMES) to that of their trade partners, have you ever wondered why WHITES nd other western world never bear African names? they rather give their kids useless names than name them anything near African names?

What is CLARK?
what is Heineken?
What is Independence?
What is SMITH?

does these names have any significant meanings to you?

For Christ's sake, why would someone decides to name himself and his future generations after slave buyers, thereby killing and sending their own identity into extinction?

And what's with the English cap too if not to show that "we were once lost, but thanks to the whiteman, we have found a direction"?

o boy you still dey drive that 1991 toyota camry?

honeric01:

@Ow11
Didn't other regions in Nigeria had direct contact with the europeans? why didn't most of them change their names (SURNAMES) their identity, to english and foreign names? THE BINIS HAD DIRECT TRADE CONTACT with the Europeans more than any other tribes in Nigeria, yet they didn't change their IDENTITY (SURNAMES) to that of their trade partners, have you ever wondered why WHITES nd other western world never bear African names? they rather give their kids useless names than name them anything near African names?

What is CLARK?
what is Heineken?
What is Independence?
What is SMITH?

does these names have any significant meanings to you?

For Christ's sake, why would someone decides to name himself and his future generations after slave buyers, thereby killing and sending their own identity into extinction?

And what's with the English cap too if not to show that "we were once lost, but thanks to the whiteman, we have found a direction"?

May your days be long, Amen!.

honeric01:

What is CLARK?
what is Heineken?
What is Independence?
What is SMITH?

For Christ's sake, why would someone decides to name himself and his future generations after slave buyers, thereby killing and sending their own identity into extinction?

And what's with the English cap too if not to show that "we were once lost, but thanks to the whiteman, we have found a direction"?

@Independence

Surely I agree it wasn't the smartest thing to do in the world at the time but these names have remained for generations and have become part of our identity today. Like I wrote earlier, Favour, ThankGod and Blessing are Nigerian names today that are of English origin just like Hart is an Ibani name and Briggs is a Kalabari name.

Oh yeah, The fedora is as annoying as the woko and etibo itself because these were also brought in by the white man. . .Look, these people have influenced a lot of our culture and these things have evolved over time like the native dress girls wear today which is quite different from what their grand-mums wore 100 years ago.

So @Honeric01, do you wear shoes when you dress up in full Bini regalia? or you wear only slippers that was developed in Bini kingdom.

honeric01:

@(SURNAMES) to that of their trade partners, have you ever wondered why WHITES nd other western world never bear African names? they rather give their kids useless names than name them anything near African names?

What is CLARK?
what is Heineken?
What is Independence?
What is SMITH?[/b]

does these names have any significant meanings to you?

For Christ's sake, why would someone decides to name himself and his future generations after slave buyers, thereby killing and sending their own identity into extinction?

And what's with the English cap too if not to show that "we were once lost, but thanks to the whiteman, we have found a direction"?

hehe . .


ps::
seriously, some Rivers/Ijaw families need to change their surnames
I met this guy from Opobo.
His last name is strongface 
How can somebody be proud to say his surname is "strongface?

If your name is Albert Enyinna-Macpepple, you can change it to Albert Enyinna or Sekibo Enyinna.
@Ijawgirl: What about those cowboy hats?.

sjeezy8:

o boy you still dey drive that 1991 toyota camry?

How do you mean?

ow11:

@Independence

Surely I agree it wasn't the smartest thing to do in the world at the time but these names have remained for generations and have become part of our identity today. Like I wrote earlier, Favour, ThankGod and Blessing are Nigerian names today that are of English origin just like Hart is an Ibani name and Briggs is a Kalabari name.

Oh yeah, The fedora is as annoying as the woko and etibo itself because these were also brought in by the white man. . .Look, these people have influenced a lot of our culture and these things have evolved over time like the native dress girls wear today which is quite different from what their grand-mums wore 100 years ago.

So @Honeric01, do you wear shoes when you dress up in full Bini regalia? or you wear only slippers that was developed in Bini kingdom.

ThankGod, favor, blessings are just English version of the local names we have here in Nigeria, favor means Aanu in Yoruba, Ese in Bini, Amara in Igbo, Thank-god also have their native version, so also is blessings. but can you say the same of Heineken, government, independence, clark or any other silly names in your region? what does these names mean in your native language? can you translate them?

So you think it's okay to bear government, brain, governor, EDUCATION , ACADEMICS , seriously, are these people sick in the head or what?

Please Ow11, kindly name one of your child fry-pan if you have not already named one dust-bin, cooking-stove or even cutlery.

I wear shoes because shoes weren't made for only the whites, if you check your history very well, you'd know that shoes didn't originate from the west, Some Africans were already wearing locally made shoes, so if i wear shoes, that does not mean it came from the white man's land and by the way, why should you compare things like shoes with complex things like Heritage, identity and what makes you an ethnic worth mentioning?

ijaw_girl:

hehe . .


ps::
seriously, some Rivers/Ijaw families need to change their surnames
I met this guy from Opobo.
His last name is strongface 
How can somebody be proud to say his surname is "strongface?

Jeez!!!, you mean someone's surname is STRONGFACE? okporokpo!!!!!!!!!!

These people are lost forever, you see why they have been shortchanged and maltreated by the ruling class in Nigeria? when you don't even value your heritage, no one else is going to value it no matter how you try.

It must have been their father's father's father's [etc] first name.

When British colonized Nigeria back then, Nigerian school kids were asked for their last name. So whatever their father's first name was, were used as their last name.

Andre Uweh:

If your name is Albert Enyinna-Macpepple, you can change it to Albert Enyinna or Sekibo Enyinna.
@Ijawgirl: What about those cowboy hats?.

well, I dont see anything wrong with the hat

ow11:

A lot of untruths, speculations and misinterpretations have gone on on this thread over a topic NONE of the respondents is directly related to. African history is largely unwritten and we are all too aware of how oral stories can change over time.

How is all this not what I wrote?

ow11:

However @ezeagu, The story that some Africans went to study in England came back and gave their 'new' names to their communities is quite laughable to say the least. You quote from google books whose authors have probably done the same things respondents like Andre Uweh and Honeric01 have done on this thread which is speculations and extrapolations.

You went on to write a version of what I wrote. Is it a fact that the people changed their names after European contact. . . .

ow11:

European surnames in Rivers state for those that care to learn are from direct contact with European traders

. . . . . okay, right. Now how is this different from this?

ezeagu:

many of the 'New Kalabar' (Kalabari) inhabitants of those days were directly in contact with European sailors/slave traders, something not all were able to do. Many of the royal families made their ports available, and in return Europeans sometimes sent the slave traders children to Europe to study (read here), many of these people [as in Kalabari people in New Kalabar] changed their names or were working under Europeans when they changed their surnames to the common surnames found in Rivers and other States.

ow11:

Btw, Brass is in Bayelsa state and the port would have been a fishing settlement at  the time therefore, would be easy for people to call it after the products gotten at the port.

Brass didn't export brass, the brass pans were imported to the town by Europeans to trade for slaves.

ow11:

European surnames in Rivers state for those that care to learn are from direct contact with European traders and nothing more(I have earlier stated how this became the norm in page 1). . .I would use Abonnema to explain my point. This town was founded in 1882 well after slave trade was abolished by the Brits and the 11 founding chiefs already had European names. These Chiefs didn't go to England for studies but had parents who dealt in slaves. Today Abonnema has Four major compounds all with English names but beside them, you still see the Kalabari names of the Parents of the chiefs that founded the town. It is therefore left for people to keep the European surname passed down from 4 generations ago or go back to the original Kalabari name.

Don't you think you repeated my post with more words. . . . .

^^most of the communities living along the african coasts are/were creolized to greater or lesser extents.

not bearing english names still doesnt mean an indigenous culture wont have major outside influences.

@Honeric01

All those weird names are first names usually anyway but my stance is how is Briggs as a surname worse than Michael as a first name? For me it is the same thing and smacks of double standard if you feel Michael is an appropriate name for an African and Briggs as a surname is NOT.

@Ezeagu

I said Brass was gotten at the port. Not exported obviously. . . .

My rejoinder was to correct the notion that the English names came via sending children to England to study and the 'children' developed a taste for English surnames and thus dropped their own surnames for European surnames. . . .

Well we all know why and how this came about and now live with the remnants. . .Maybe we should have done what Gaddafi did when he decided to rid Libya of any thing Italian.


@ijaw-girl

What about Fynecountry and Blue-Jack as common surnames in Bonny? Those names are just really funny.

ow11:

@Honeric01

All those weird names are first names usually anyway but my stance is how is Briggs as a surname worse than Michael as a first name? For me it is the same thing and smacks of double standard if you feel Michael is an appropriate name for an African and Briggs as a surname is NOT.

And who said Briggs as a surname is ok? what does briggs mean? We all know what Micheal means (in Christianity) but what does Heineken, independence, education mean as a name? most people that bears Michael chose that based on their religious beliefs unlike briggs, edcuation, frypan, clark which has no rooted meanings.

honeric01:

And who said Briggs as a surname is ok? what does briggs mean? We all know what Micheal means (in Christianity) but what does Heineken, independence, education mean as a name? most people that bears Michael chose that based on their religious beliefs unlike briggs, edcuation, frypan, clark which has no rooted meanings.

A quick google search would tell us what both Briggs and Michael mean anyway. . .Now we digress from the European surname to the downright ridiculous first names Ijaw people go by (Government, Vote, Manager, Senator, Sergeant, Heineken, Justice and so on). . . Well you would have to ask the parents because I also find those sort of names inappropriate.

Briggs means 'Bridge' and don't tell me Linda, Frederick, Lucky and Humphrey are given based on religious beliefs too.

ow11:

A quick google search would tell us what both Briggs and Michael mean anyway. . .Now we digress from the European surname to the downright ridiculous first names Ijaw people go by (Government, Vote, Manager, Senator, Sergeant, Heineken, Justice and so on). . . Well you would have to ask the parents because I also find those sort of names inappropriate.

Briggs means 'Bridge' and don't tell me Linda, Frederick, Lucky and Humphrey are given based on religious beliefs too.

I am repeating again, i never said briggs was appropriate, briggs and Michael are not in the same league, why would someone bear bridge? bridge as in? untop a canal or what?

As for the linda, frederick, lucky and co, these names still falls under the same colonial mentality stuffs, but then since these are people's surnames, i wouldn't say they are that bad compared to those who use these names as their surnames.

May God have mercy on such people.

Linda means SNAKE by the way, why would someone bear snake?

africans can sometimes act like retards.that someone chose a name is very personal. Nobody is better off in all this.foreign names occur more in riverine areas because of early interaction with foreigners.we should first of all stop using english as our official language before forcing others to change their european surnames.

Abagworo:

[b]africans can sometimes act like retards.[/b]that someone chose a name is very personal. Nobody is better off in all this.foreign names occur more in riverine areas because of early interaction with foreigners.we should first of all stop using english as our official language before forcing others to change their european surnames.

First and foremost, you should learn how to talk and not just talk, just because people have different opinion to yours does not mean they are retards. TELL me, how many westerner or Europeans have you seen or heard bearing African names? are you trying to say it was only the riverine areas that had early interaction with foreigners? the major ethnic groups that had interaction with the foreigners don't bear European surnames, so what is your point exactly?

@Honeric01

Abagworo's point is the same point I've trying to pass across. . .Your double standards! According to you, It smacks of a serious case of inferiority complex and colonial mentality if someone goes by a European surname BUT NOT a European first name.

In a related development, NO European country speaks an African language YET African countries do and YOU don't call that colonial mentality?? You accuse the Ijaws of loosing their heritage by using European surnames and fail to see that all Nigerians are loosing their heritage with the advent of globalisation and cable TV. The people with European surnames still function exactly like their counterparts with African surnames BUT you pick that one and accuse them of colonial mentality when ALL tribes in Nigeria reek of the same problem IF you want to call it one.

I don't think it is colonial mentality but if you must call one colonial mentality, then all imbibed traces of white men in our culture should be called same.

@Ow11
You still don't get it do you? you like to switch words and i really don't like stuffs like that, you used Michael as an example of names we tolerate and i let you know that Michael is not just a name, its a religious one and is mostly the Christians that answer such names, so tell me, how is Michael an European name? don't you know the meaning of MICHAEL?

there's an adage that says, if you have to eat a snail, eat the one with fat, if you are to bear a foreign name, bear the one with meanings, why should i bear a meaningless name like stove, bush, cutlery, boxer, fry-pan, education, Heineken, chickenpox, booth? Africans are known to bear meaningful names, why should some Niger deltas feel otherwise?

YOUR NAME IS YOUR IDENTITY.

EOD.

@Honeric01

Michael was meant to be a generic European name but if you want to be pedantic. . .I'd use a name of Anglo-Saxon origin to buttress my point. If I get you right,

Franklin Okoro - Appropriate name with an identity

Heineken Lokpobiri - Daft name caused by colonial mentality

Ibiwari George - Daft name caused by colonial mentality

Is this what you are trying to say?

If NOT then I think this issue is thrashed and dusted if I pick this from your post ''f you have to eat a snail, eat the one with fat, if you are to bear a foreign name, bear the one with meanings''

As much as we have derailed the thread, I seem to get your new stand on the issue

I know your problem and your problem is that, you know the truth, but can't accept the truth.

1; Micheal is not an European name, it's a Jewish name, a angle's name in the bible both Jews and Christians follow.

George is not a christian name and has no backings of any religious affiliate, so you can group it under European names.

Now, lets talk about names with meanings, why do people give their ward names? and what purpose do surnames serve in the general world?

No, it’s because River State is a conglomeration of confused souls.
How could someone be bearing an English surname/last name?
Is he/she English?

that shows just how much u know

Their english surnames were given to them as a form of colonization, cuz the white people couldn't e bothered to try pronounce the local names, not cuz people are 'confused' or tryn 2 change their identitiy, k?

Incredible, A rivers girl asks a question about her culture and who answeres? The local ibo wannabe brigade. If you guys love us so much come we will adopt you and make you househelp like we made your forebears slaves. Who else joins the party? A half brained Yoruba man. NL what can you say?

LOL @ Johndoe, I'm not sure what ur driving @ but I AM from Rivers state, hon I'm not gna fight u r anything, but hw about asking 1st next time? The whole Igbo slave thing is kinda funny tho [lol tho seriously stop i hve igbo blood 2, not cool buddy!] I'm just doing wht I do best [protecting the identity of my people ] R u from Rivers? then u shld know wht I'm tlking about.

Johndoe100:

Incredible, A rivers girl asks a question about her culture and who answeres? The local ibo wannabe brigade. If you guys love us so much come we will adopt you and make you househelp like we made your forebears slaves. Who else joins the party? A half brained Yoruba man. NL what can you say?

It was the Igbos that enslaved their own brothers. So shut your stvpid trap up.

mbatuku2:

It was the Igbos that enslaved their own brothers. So shut your stvpid trap up.

Right and they had access to the sea? Anyway you all were our slaves, who cares who went hunting? Let me give you a brief quote.

killayut:
KALABARI did not raid Igbo towns but like some how were seen by the Igbos as angels or some superior beings, The Igbos gave out their people willingly to Kalabari chiefs for some European goods and alcohol. Human trading started in that manner before Europeans took advantage of it. That was the kind trade going on for like 100 or more years before JAJA ( JUBO JUBO AGHA ) meaning somebody is not another person, You are you and you are not another person was acquired by the Bonny King. It was not by raiding, Raiding was among the Ijaws were pirates attack villages to steal slaves or attack boats carrying slaves at night and these pirates were Ijaws of Kalabari/ Okrika/ Bonny / Bille / Nembe,

T

kliva6:

LOL @ Johndoe, I'm not sure what your driving @ but I AM from Rivers state, hon I'm not gna fight u r anything, but hw about asking 1st next time? The whole Igbo slave thing is kinda funny tho [lol tho seriously stop i hve igbo blood 2, not cool buddy!] I'm just doing wht I do best [protecting the identity of my people ] R u from Rivers? then u shld know wht I'm tlking about.

I think it is obvious from my post that I know you are from Rivers state. I am also from that state, so chill hon.

In some way, I'm surprised Johndoe is quoting Killayut (of all people), but in other ways, I don't expect anything less that such behavior.