bukatyne:


I was expecting the feminism part. No disappointment.

First, I do not see how equal opportunities for women is anti Christ.

Again, I know this discussion is always divided between career/staying at home however, it is a wrong approach.

Most people (men & women) don't have careers: they have jobs they work to pay the bills.

Everyone is created for two purposes:
1. Worship God
2. Individual/distinct purposes.

We are all expected to put the will of God/ our purposes over personal ambitions. Part of which will be a good wife/husband/child/patent/neighbour/colleague/customer etc. so that our testimony will not be ruined.

Besides how can a woman's calling be wifehood and motherhood when these relationships end on earth and we are spiritual beings?

For example, Esther was to save the Jew's, Mary was to birth the saviour etc. Do you think these women would have said to me successful if they failed at these duties?

I asked you some questions on another thread which I will try to respond to tomorrow.

Question number 1

Every earthly institution created by GOD has a divine purpose and implications. Earthly institutions were created to help us understand and serve GOD better. For "Although he was the Son, he learned obedience from what he suffered." Hebrew 5:8

For GOD CALLED HIMSELF A FATHER. HE gave us earthly fathers and commanded us to honour them that we might learn to honour HIM.

CHRIST called us HIS bride and HE the GROOM. If we truly understand the authority and corresponding responsibility the groom has over the bride, our relationship with CHRIST would be richer.

There is no place for the disobedient in the kingdom of GOD. if you cannot obey the earthly parents you see, you cannot obey the FATHER you cannot see. And if you can't be submissive to your earthly husband as commanded by GOD, you can't be submissive to your CHRIST your heavenly husband.


Question 2

These women succeeded in their calling because they were completely obedient to their husbands.

bukatyne:


I was expecting the feminism part. No disappointment.

First, I do not see how equal opportunities for women is anti Christ.

Again, I know this discussion is always divided between career/staying at home however, it is a wrong approach.

Most people (men & women) don't have careers: they have jobs they work to pay the bills.

Everyone is created for two purposes:
1. Worship God
2. Individual/distinct purposes.

We are all expected to put the will of God/ our purposes over personal ambitions. Part of which will be a good wife/husband/child/patent/neighbour/colleague/customer etc. so that our testimony will not be ruined.

Besides how can a woman's calling be wifehood and motherhood when these relationships end on earth and we are spiritual beings?

For example, Esther was to save the Jew's, Mary was to birth the saviour etc. Do you think these women would have said to me successful if they failed at these duties?

I asked you some questions on another thread which I will try to respond to tomorrow.

Trying to get something sensible from the bible for your argument will be futile because the Bible itself was written by sexist and misogynist men to glorify themselves.

Feminism and religion -whether Christian ,islam,Hinduism ,bhuddism or whatever can't work together because they all practice the systematic degradation of women.

Elder0001:



Trying to get something sensible from bible for your argument will be futile because the Bible itself was written by sexist and misogynist men to glorify themselves.

Feminism and religion whether Christian ?islam,Hinduism ,bhuddism or whatever can't work together because they all practice the systemic degradation of women.

Thou darkest of warlocks and son of the Babylonian harlot, your blood is as souless as that of a chicken. That's why the devil got you so cheaply by throwing some few grains of corn your way.

bukatyne:


I was expecting the feminism part. No disappointment.

First, I do not see how equal opportunities for women is anti Christ.

Again, I know this discussion is always divided between career/staying at home however, it is a wrong approach.

Most people (men & women) don't have careers: they have jobs they work to pay the bills.

Everyone is created for two purposes:
1. Worship God
2. Individual/distinct purposes.

We are all expected to put the will of God/ our purposes over personal ambitions. Part of which will be a good wife/husband/child/patent/neighbour/colleague/customer etc. so that our testimony will not be ruined.

Besides how can a woman's calling be wifehood and motherhood when these relationships end on earth and we are spiritual beings?

For example, Esther was to save the Jew's, Mary was to birth the saviour etc. Do you think these women would have said to me successful if they failed at these duties?

I asked you some questions on another thread which I will try to respond to tomorrow.

say what? I quiver to ask how you came about the bolded.

postmann:


Thou darkest of warlocks and son of the Babylonian harlot, your blood is as souless as that of a chicken. That's why the devil got you so cheaply by throwing some few grains of corn your way.

Misogynistic pig stay far away

More views

IamD18:
Nice thread. One thing we should understand is that we have different traditions and culture, and the earlier we start respecting people's culture the better for us.

Bride price or not, it won't stop a cheater, woman-beater, irresponsible man from being a bad husband. It won't still stop a respondsible man from being a good husband. We should get that.

Just like most South Eastern States in Nigeria. You pay bride price to marry from there, it's their culture and tradition, they don't force people to marry from their place, they won't force you to pay, you do that willingly because of the respect you have for your wife and their culture. That's what it means to respect people's way of life.

Even a certain tribe in Nigeria can kill just to have a South Southern and Eastern woman in their family, they will leave their place where you can marry with just RED OIL and PEPPER, they'll leave their free women, travel down to South East to marry by paying for bride price with their life savings because they can't resist UKWU NWATA NWANYI IGBO . That's what it means to go for the best women.

Let's please respect people's culture and tradition because no matter how we rant on social media, it won't still change the reality about tradition.


Peace.

Exactly at the bolded.Seeing women as property or maltreatment in any form has nothing to do with bride price.

What about men who cohabit with a woman who probably even has a child for him whose dowry he hasn't paid? He hasn't done any form of marriage proceedings but still treats her like a property and disrespecs and enslaves her.

It is a thing of the mind and mentality. it has nothing to do with paying bride price. Even a boyfriend that hasn't paid anything can do the mentioned things. Let us stop attaching these behaviors to bride price.

ImaIma1:


Exactly at the bolded.Seeing women as property or maltreatment in any form has nothing to do with bride price.

What about men who cohabit with a woman who probably even has a child for him whose dowry he hasn't paid? He hasn't done any form of marriage proceedings but still treats her like a property and disrespecs and enslaves her.

It is a thing of the mind and mentality. it has nothing to do with paying bride price. Even a boyfriend that hasn't paid anything can do the mentioned things. Let us stop attaching these behaviors to bride price.

yes sometimes dowry has nothing to with it on some abusive men

but dowry make it worse on those who get abusive husbands as some cases family marries of daughter to a rich guy, usually these rich guys are corrupted by money they have no respect for other person, becoz money buys them whatever they want, when money is rejected as trade of for something eg wife doesnt want expensive things but her husband to be naturally a loving person spending more time together etc.

such husbands communicate via money, so they remind these wives by saying i bought you etc or i bought you out of poverty etc

the woman would everything in terms of material things but there is no love affection from husband

ZIMDRILL:


yes sometimes dowry has nothing to with it on some abusive men

but dowry make it worse on those who get abusive husbands as some cases family marries of daughter to a rich guy, usually these rich guys are corrupted by money they have no respect for other person, becoz money buys them whatever they want, when money is rejected as trade of for something eg wife doesnt want expensive things but her husband to be naturally a loving person spending more time together etc.

such husbands communicate via money, so they remind these wives by saying i bought you etc or i bought you out of poverty etc

the woman would everything in terms of material things but there is no love affection from husband

Are you saying men don't love their wives because they pay bride price? What about the men who love their wives dearly and do not take her for granted even after paying bride price? Take away bride price and a man will still be who he is.

People that are abusive will be that way whether you collect bride price or give them the wife for free. There are couples that have been living together for years like husband and wife with children who haven't been married in any form still facing such issues.

So even if a rich man married a less privileged lady without paying a dime, he will still remind her that he brought her out of poverty if that is the kind of person he is.

If we are going to take away bride price, it should be because we want a change and not because it will mitigate against abuse, slavery, itemizing, etc.

ImaIma1:


Are you saying men don't love their wives because they pay bride price? What about the men who love their wives dearly and do not take her for granted even after paying bride price? Take away bride price and a man will still be who he is.

People that are abusive will be that way whether you collect bride price or give them the wife for free. There are couples that have been living together for years like husband and wife with children who haven't been married in any form still facing such issues.

So even if a rich man married a less privileged lady without paying a dime, he will still remind her that he brought her out of poverty if that is the kind of person he is.

If we are going to take away bride price, it should be because we want a change and not because it will mitigate against abuse, slavery, itemizing, etc.

1 take emotions away

2 read slowly understand my point

i said some men are abusive becoz there corrupted by money becoz they think money is the solution to every problem hence they have no respect and value other people becoz they take you as an asset thar can be replaced

i never said bride price should be removed Nope we are talking of how some men entangle it in their abuse treatment of the wife

2buffagain:


Sha sha May your wife sha not come into a major inheritance or achieve great financial gains.
May she be poorer than you and 100% dependent on you for all things.
May she be fired whenever it seems like her income is about to go over your own.
May her business scatter whenever it develops the liver to want to supercede your relatively meager income.

You still haven't said "Amen"...sah.

Even if a wife is wealthier than her husband, she still needs him. Don't be deceived. Money really is not everything. But obviously, many don't understand that.

ImaIma1:


Even if a wife is wealthier than her husband, she still needs him. Don't be deceived. Money really is not everything. But obviously, many don't understand that.

You should be telling that to the person (postmann) who considers a wealthy wife an "abnormality", not me.

bukatyne:
@Elder0001:

Brideprice is Biblical (or should I say Jewish) and and if I could scrap it, I would.

However Indians pay to marry their men yet they are maltreated on top their money.

I like how Yorubas adapted it: we return the brideprice to the groom that we are not selling our daughters. The husband brings a list of things for engagement (depending on the family) and the bride's family hosts the engagement and gives token gifts to the groom's family.

That way, nobody is bought and sold.

Still the Yoruba wives are abused and maltreated and so are the Indian women who even pay.

That means the purpose of this thread is defeated. More research and facts should be the basis and not mere feelings and emotions.

ZIMDRILL:


1 take emotions away

2 read slowly understand my point

i said some men are abusive becoz there corrupted by money becoz they think money is the solution to every problem hence they have no respect and value other people becoz they take you as an asset thar can be replaced

i never said bride price should be removed Nope we are talking of how some men entangle it in their abuse treatment of the wife

I understand your post perfectly and I say bride price has absolutely nothing to do with the way each man thinks.

See the Indian culture that was raised here for instance...the women are the one who pay dowry but are still maltreated and abused by the "husbands they bought".

ImaIma1:


Exactly at the bolded.Seeing women as property or maltreatment in any form has nothing to do with bride price.

What about men who cohabit with a woman who probably even has a child for him whose dowry he hasn't paid? He hasn't done any form of marriage proceedings but still treats her like a property and disrespecs and enslaves her.

It is a thing of the mind and mentality. it has nothing to do with paying bride price. Even a boyfriend that hasn't paid anything can do the mentioned things. Let us stop attaching these behaviors to bride price.

Thanks for your input.

It has been confirm that the same tribe that pays bride price makes the best husband.

It was also confirmed that the same tribe that marries with red oil and pepper cheats and beats their wife a lot.

Question is; why can't these set of people respect people's culture and tradition?

Why can't they mind their business?

ImaIma1:


I understand your post perfectly and I say bride price has absolutely nothing to do with the way each man thinks.

See the Indian culture that was raised here for instance...the women are the one who pay dowry but are still maltreated and abused by the "husbands they bought".

am afraid it is to someone men, you are failing to understand that not all men think like you or take things like you. you are stuck in on way of seeing things and not exploring the thinking of other men

am sure you have heard many men besides love they married for other reasons i,e someone to have kids with, cook and wash etc when such things dont materialise especially after being frustrated with demands during bride pricing negonitions, some men bring out the subject if bride price they dont get what they expectes "is this what paid bride price for"

ZIMDRILL:


am afraid it is to someone men, you are failing to understand that not all men think like you or take things like you. you are stuck in on way of seeing things and not exploring the thinking of other men

am sure you have heard many men besides love they married for other reasons i,e someone to have kids with, cook and wash etc when such things dont materialise especially after being frustrated with demands during bride pricing negonitions, some men bring out the subject if bride price they dont get what they expectes "is this what paid bride price for"

.

You lost me there. However, blaming paying off dowry for any situation by a man is just a case of "it was the devil that pushed me"

Men should take responsibility for their folly and flaws and not blame it dowry payment.

How about you just reconfigure the female hormones so that men and woman will begin to grow muscles and biceps naturally?

You guys should do this already make we rest, and yes, men should begin to menstruate.

ImaIma1:


Are you saying men don't love their wives because they pay bride price? What about the men who love their wives dearly and do not take her for granted even after paying bride price? Take away bride price and a man will still be who he is.

People that are abusive will be that way whether you collect bride price or give them the wife for free. There are couples that have been living together for years like husband and wife with children who haven't been married in any form still facing such issues.

So even if a rich man married a less privileged lady without paying a dime, he will still remind her that he brought her out of poverty if that is the kind of person he is.

If we are going to take away bride price, it should be because we want a change and not because it will mitigate against abuse, slavery, itemizing, etc.

Why are you hell bent on defending bride price ? Because this isn't the first time you've defended bride price on this section.

Like eketem said ; Women will complain about being second class in homes but will not want to get rid of bride price that ensures they remain enslaved.


Bride price should be scrapped because it makes women inferior beings.

Acidosis:


How about you just reconfigure the female hormones so that men and woman will begin to grow muscles and biceps naturally?

You guys should do this already make we rest, and yes, men should begin to menstruate.

You're probably on drugs....

Elder0001:

You're probably on drugs....

Why? You don't want equality again?

ImaIma1:


I understand your post perfectly and I say bride price has absolutely nothing to do with the way each man thinks.

See the Indian culture that was raised here for instance...the women are the one who pay dowry but are still maltreated and abused by the "husbands they bought".

So by your own submission, if paying or not paying bridelist won't stop an evil person from being evil or a good person from being good....what then is the point of it?

BrideList still causes several negative societal factors outside of marital abuse e.g late marriage, enforces premarital sex outside marriage, responsible for several children being born outside wedlock (sometimes deliberately done by the couple to use as a list bargaining chip), etc.
The negatives surpass the positives (if any). It is entirely pointless....and beyond that, harmful.

Nothing wrong with brideprice as those are mostly set by customs. It's the list that is abused and is hence the issue.

Elder0001:



Why are you hell bent on defending bride price ? Because this isn't the first time you've defended bride price on this section.

Like eketem said ; Women will complain about being second class in homes but will not want to get rid of bride price that ensures they remain enslaved.


Bride price should be scrapped because it makes women inferior beings.

Don't get me wrong. I am neither for bride price or against. I am neutral on the issue.

But what I am saying is that a man that will enslave his wife will do so even if she is given to him for free. Look at the Yorubas that pay next to nothing. Their men are not any better. It is a mentality issue not bride price

Men like postmann and the likes cannot marry a girl like Adeola, and are also the cause of the stories she narrates in the video below.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FyfpYrYa6eQ?t=846

The blood of many dreams are on their hands.

Perhaps the OP is happy that our women (and some men) instead spend billions on weaves to look European....



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gv9jtgGwtrk

Elder0001:
Bride price payment, is a widespread practice in many African societies. In traditional African societies bride-wealth had some positive aspects but mostly negative consequences, for it stands at the foundation of patriarchy. In traditional African societies, bride-price was related to goods and services that a bridegroom and his kinsmen transferred to the family of the bride.1 Traditionally, this transfer involved the delivery of livestock by a suitor to the father or family of his prospective bride.

The negative consequence of bride-price is clearly seen in the debate on terminology. The term “bride-price” has the connotation of a purchase or financial transaction. Though it is always claimed that what we actually have is bride-price, in present day society it is more like a financial transaction. Bride-price has been highly commercialized, leading to many negative consequences such as women treated as property, the idea of daughters as investment, come-we-stay marriages, forced marriages, enslavement, family conflict, inferiority and dehumanization, and gender-based violence.
Each of these several categories will be described briefly below.



Women as Property

Commercialization of bride-price started with the introduction of the cash economy. Bride-price is paid to individuals in cash, as opposed to livestock. Cash is a symbol of sale, so women are seen as articles of sale. This leads women to be seen as property and chattel. Parents put a price on their daughters; in many communities the standard payment apart from cash is a grade cow, water tanks, or other unofficial payments. The payment becomes even higher if the bride is educated. When women are treated as property, they have no dignity. Such treatment as property is clearly seen in the way the transaction meeting is held, with haggling and bargaining, but without the input of the women.




Daughters as Investment

Parents see their daughters as a means of getting rich. Africans view their daughters as an investment whose dividends can be gleaned periodically. A daughter is like a bank account, and it seems only right to many that her father should be able to draw from her from time to time.


Enslavement of Women
In Africa, bride-price has always been paid in exchange for a woman’s productive and reproductive labor. The woman is seen as a source of labor for the family and also a machine for giving birth. As a result, if the woman does not give birth, the man can demand his bride-price to be repaid or mistreat her. By paying bride-wealth, men have legal rights over the ownership of children.




Family Conflict
Most heavy bride price marriages are founded on bitterness and suspicion, which leads to conflict. This is mainly due to the unreasonable demands of parents before the marriage. These demands lead to loss of respect and, in some instances, the couple pays the money requested and then breaks any relationship with the bride’s family.


Inferiority and Dehumanization
Since men pay bride-price , there is a notion that the girl has been bought. This gives women an inferior position; they cannot be equal with the buyer. This is dehumanizing because whatever little the men pay is not equal to the value of a human being. The whole of the man’s family has a notion that they are participants in the purchase. The man’s sisters have a notion that the bride-wealth was used to purchase the brother’s wife, hence they have a stake in controlling her. She is not even consulted on issues which affect her directly. She has low self-esteem, and even the language used of her is demeaning.


Gender-Based Violence
As objects and possessions, women are abused both physically and psychologically. The language used by most men is that they are disciplining their wives. Wife beating or battering is rampant, and most people accept this as normal. Even professional women are beaten by their spouses. Bride-wealth is also seen as paying for the productive and reproductive labor of women. This implies that, when the woman becomes married, she has to add several hours of work to her day, hence as p’Bitek says in his epic poem, Song of Lawino, an African woman becomes a beast of burden. Secondly, through bride-price a man is seen as having paid for the reproductive labor, hence her sexuality itself is bought. In many instances a woman is viewed as a sex object. First, a woman’s major role is to give birth to and take care of babies, especially boys. The man controls her sexuality and demands sexual satisfaction, whatever the situation. A woman does not have control over her sexuality. As an example, people claim that there is no such thing as rape in marriage.


https://www.cbeinternational.org/resources/article/priscilla-papers/negative-consequences-dowry-payment-women-and-society



Cc bukatyne,eketem,postmann,2buffagain,capslocked,seahawk,ireneidiva,trustyshoess,

Your contribution will be appreciated

You banned me for two months because of my anti gigolo beliefs. Na mortuary you go dey for 2019 if you dey involve in my ban . If my truth dey pain you go and hang. Rich woman o poor woman o. Sam! You no go find. GIGOLO.

Deji63:


You banned me for two months because of my anti gigolo beliefs. Na mortuary you go dey for 2019 if you dey involve in my ban . If my truth dey pain you go and hang. Rich woman o poor woman o. Sam! You no go find. GIGOLO.

Mynd44 lalasticlala dominique

Lalasticlala what do you think?