This idea of catholic church praying for their dead ones to be forgiven their sins and be received into God's kingdom is a total deceit. This has made most of them to be living their lives anyhow with the hope that their priests and members alive will pray for them to make heaven when they die. Heaven is prepared only for prepared people. You can only be prepared by being born again. Jesus said- except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. No one embarks on a far distant Journey without first of all getting himself well prepared and making sure he has all that he needs to travel with. So it is in this heavenly journey, you cannot live your life carelessly on earth only to die and some group of people begin to pray a useless prayer for God to forgive you on the other side of the divide. NO WAY. The bible said- It is appointed for a man once to die, and after death judgment.
Matthew 5:8 says- Blessed are the pure in heart for they shall see God. The only way to be pure in heart is to be washed by the blood of Jesus and saved from your sins. When this takes place, you see yourself living a life of Christ yet if you carelessly remove your eyes on Jesus who is the author and finisher of our faith, you start sinking into sin like peter who started sinking into the water when he removed his focus from Jesus. And if you die in that sin without repenting again you go to hell.
Hebrews 12:14 says- follow peace with all men and Holiness without which no man can see God. This means that it is not enough to be a man of peace or be known as a man or peace or a good man on earth. without that holiness going along side with it you cannot see God.
Confess your sins to God today according to 1 John 1:9. Jesus will save you and you will become a candidate of heaven. God help you.

So, which part of hell do you live in? When did you see Alexander pope around there?

Let me help you out. Catholics are going to hell, right? Thank you. So since we are going to roast for eternity, can we at least have some peace while we are here on earth?

italo and invisible,
pls get the message right-
except a man (pope, father, deacon, knight, pastor, Apostle, General Overseer, Evangelists etc) be born again he cannot see the kingdom of God. If a catholic be born again he will go to heaven for sure. But if according to your church belief he expects to have a prayer of mercy prayed on his behalf while he is dead, it wont work. Thats the message. Thanks.

The issue is not about where any dead person may be, its about ensuring we are in d salvation army. Our bible is very clear about it - except a man be born again(here on earth) he cannot enter the kindom of God.' No one gets born again after death.

@ Invisible & Italo, ---- If you confess The Lord Jesus with your mouth & believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart man believes unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation - Romans 10:9-10

Cheers!

As Catholics were responsible for writing the New Testament (under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit), the Catholic Church doesn't "interpret" the Bible. We explain it. Protestants can only "interpret", because they are not the author (guided by the Holy Spirit), and therefore, can only guess at the possible meaning of a chapter, passage or phrase, just as anyone can only guess at any author's intentions in any other book. As the author, the Catholic Church is the only proper authority to consult in matters pertaining to the Bible.

alexleo is a hell master.

the only thing he talks about is who is going to hell and who is not.

so i gave him the name hell master.

what you think about constantly you end up creating for yourself. so my dear hell master you will soon enjoy the hell that you are creating for yourself.

Italo, well said, To those that do not believe, no explanation is possible, People should divert their energy in conversions.bringing souls to Christ and not attacking catholics!!, Shows there must be something special about Catholics,

I like that title!!, lol, Dont mind him, sitting down and being a judge , He will def. be judged same way,

And mind you, Alexleo, I hope u dont say when someone dies, May his soul rest in Peace, because that means you are automatically praying for the soul to be saved from eternal damnation and hence guilty of same thing u accuse catholics of, When someone dies rem. to just say hey yaa! O.K?

Our help is in the name of the lord.

who made heaven and the earth

So catholics are hellmates

Delusional Alexleo is the only one doing is right.Every other person is doing it wrong.

italo,
where did you get that false information that catholics wrote the new testament? And even if they wrote it (which I insist they did not) are those that wrote it still alive to give it the true interpretation you are talking about. Anybody who knows the bible knows that it is the Holy spirit that interprets the bible and thats why you need the Holy spirit. How can you get the Holy spirit when you are not taught about him in your church?

@Benodic,
you hate the truth but i tell you, the truth will set you free. Anything you like you can call but thats not for me. You want me to come here and preach money gospel only without preaching the message of eternity which is the main thing? God forbid.

Validator,
I am just here to preach the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ and not to show myself as you are insinuating. Truth is bitter but it must be preached.

JOVI,
I ve said it in my previous post that if someone dies a sinner, he will go to hell. It doesnt matter how many people that says Rest in peace to him. That thing you people say has no effect whatsoever on the dead person. You people are just saying it to satisfy your conscience or please the bereaved so it doesnt work and i dont say it.

@poster

The subject of your post is misleading as you had no evidence to back it up that the pope is in hell.when I clicked on this topic,I was expecting someone to tell me how he visited hell and saw a pope ,there but am yet to see anything pointing towards that direction.

when catholics talk about purgatory or a state of purgation,it does not mean that catholics encourage their members to sin with the hope that someone will pray for them when there are dead.The fact remains that anyone with such a mindset will definitely end up in hell.

As long as prayers for the dead is in the scriptures ,it must be taught no matter whose ax is gored.Although I will acknowlege that nowhere in the scriptures will you find the word PURGATORY likewise,the words TRINITY,BIBLE,ORIGINAL SIN,NEW AND OLD TESTAMENT are not in the scripture but was rather coined by the Roman catholic church to designate certain things described in the scriptures.

Purgatory is implied in a no of bible pasages

2 Tim. 1:16-18 - Onesiphorus is dead but Paul asks for mercy on him “on that day.” Paul’s use of “that day” demonstrates its eschatological usage (see, for example, Rom. 2.5,16; 1 Cor. 1.8; 3.13; 5.5; 2 Cor. 1.14; Phil. 1.6,10; 2.16; 1 Thess. 5.2,4,5,8; 2 Thess. 2.2,3; 2 Tim. 4.. Of course, there is no need for mercy in heaven, and there is no mercy given in hell. Where is Onesiphorus? He is in purgatory.


1 Peter 3:19; 4:6 - Jesus preached to the spirits in the "prison." These are the righteous souls being purified for the beatific vision.

where do you think this prison that was was mentioned in 1 pet 3 :19 is? why was the gospel preached to the dead in 1 pet 4:6?


1 Cor. 15:29-30 - Paul mentions people being baptized on behalf of the dead, in the context of atoning for their sins (people are baptized on the dead’s behalf so the dead can be raised). These people cannot be in heaven because they are still with sin, but they also cannot be in hell because their sins can no longer be atoned for. They are in purgatory. These verses directly correspond to 2 Macc. 12:44-45 which also shows specific prayers for the dead, so that they may be forgiven of their sin

alexleo:

italo,
where did you get that false information that catholics wrote the new testament? And even if they wrote it (which I insist they did not) are those that wrote it still alive to give it the true interpretation you are talking about. Anybody who knows the bible knows that it is the Holy spirit that interprets the bible and thats why you need the Holy spirit. How can you get the Holy spirit when you are not taught about him in your church?

Your problem - just like that of many protestants(of course not all) - is very fundamental. Sorry but my post wasn't for you because you don't seem to have even the slightest hint of the history of the Church or what it stands for. It was actually for people who knew more. I don't usually argue with people who know as little as you seem to know except they are willing to learn. Am sorry I have to leave you to wallow in your lack of information.

@ hellmaster alias alexleo

this truth that you keep on talking about makes me really laugh.

the day the real light of truth will hit you all your hellish illusions will disappear like a fog before the sun.

for now enjoy your hellish ignorance. but please leave the pope and other catholics out of it.

chukwudi44,
your manner of reply is quite commendable. Thanks. But there are certain questions i would like you to answer
1. Do you catholics believe in being born again or you believe only that somebody just being good will take him to heaven weather he is born again or not?
Secondly the verse you quoted about onesiphorous does that imply that he died a sinner and Paul was now praying for him to receive mercy?
Again the bible references you quoted did you go through them well because most of them are not relevant to the defence you are making?
I mentioned both pope and other clerics here in the post but singled out pope for caption because its his church am talking about. If he supports what is not biblical he will surely go in for it thats the simple message.

@op,
what do u know about the catholic church.
the church do not pray for a soul in hell, we only pray for souls in purgatory

@franctony,
who are the people in that your pugartory? Is it people who were half sinners and half righteous on earth or people who lived more righteous and less sinful? Is there any provision in the bible that people who lived this kind of lives will obtain mercy when they die(since if the word purgatory was not mentioned)?
I need biblical support to your answers.

^^^
You really should be banned for your extremely high degree of ignorance.
How dare you say the catholic pope is/will be in hell when you don't even have any knowledge of the basic catholic believes?
Please understand that YOU ARE DELUSIONAL.

validator,
you are not a catholic so shut up!
Allow catholics to answer the questions I asked them and stop jumping into discussions foolishly.

Secondly the verse you quoted about onesiphorous does that imply that he died a sinner and Paul was now praying for him to receive mercy?

I cannot say whether Onesiphorous died a sinner or not,but the fact remains that Paul Prayed for him after he had died thus justifying prayer for the dead.Why on earth would Paul pray for the repose of the soul of the dead when he knew the prayers would have no effect.

1. Do you catholics believe in being born again or you believe only that somebody just being good will take him to heaven weather he is born again or not?

Jesus christ clearly told Nicodemus that unless a Man is born again,he cannever see the Kingdom of God,Since catholics are followers of Jesus why on earth would they not beleive in beign born again?The main issue is the definition of the term born again ,which pentecostals have twisted to mean another thing.

Again the bible references you quoted did you go through them well because most of them are not relevant to the defence you are making?

How are the bible passages I posted not relevant to these discussions, I would take them again one after another.

1 Peter 3:19; 4:6 - Jesus preached to the spirits in the "prison." These are the righteous souls being purified for the beatific vision.

Please can you please tell me where this prison mentioned here is?the souls locked in this prison were said to have perished during the time of Noah,obviously there are neither in heaven nor hell,otherwise Jesus would not be preaching to them even after they had died when he knew ,they can nolonger be saved.

1 pet 4:6 clearly mentions that the good news was also preached to those that have died

International Standard Version (©2008)
Indeed, this is why the gospel was proclaimed even to those who have died, so that they could be judged in their mortal flesh like all humans and live in the spiritual realm like God.


Also in 1 cor 15:29-30.St Paul clearly talks about the baptism of the dead.Why would the dead be baptised I f baptism would have no effect on their soul.

29Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? why are they then baptized for the dead?

I would also ad another bible passage in I John 5;16-17, which clearly states that not all sin will lead to death and thus we should pray for our brethren in those sins

16If anyone sees his brother sinning a sin which does not lead to death, he will ask, and He will give him life for those who commit sin not leading to death. There is sin leading to death. I do not say that he should pray about that. [b]17All unrighteousness is sin, and there is sin not leading to death.[/]

I just don't understand why every tom,dick and harry who wakes in the morning with a funny nightmare would form an inflated opinion and the next thing he thinks of doing is criticize the Catholic Church when they have logs in their eyes?
They draw from horrible incidents along the 2000yrs of Catholic Church history and demonize the mother Church even when their own Churches which is not up to 150yrs old has skeletons as well.
They make conclusions on what they don't understand and can't explain. Its one thing to understand something and reject it and its another thing to not understand at all and pretend to have perfect knowledge.
They forget that there is the Christian Bible and also Christian Customs! The Catholic Church being the mother church (I know fools would dispute this) inherited the Custom and compiled the various scriptures available to them into a holy book which they simply called Biblia (Latin) meaning the " The book".
Just simply know that there are some things you, as a pentecostal cannot understand about the Catholic Church unless you try. Call it Dogma or whatever, a religion which depends only on what it can see, touch, perceive, smell and hear is science based. That is why people prefer the gospel of mammon these days rather than the gospel of the cross. You can argue from now till tomorrow that yours is not a religion, utter words play!

I often wonder whenever I visit this section and see rubbish against the Catholic Church, come to think of it, this is the same church that more than any church defied the dangers of barbaric customs of many lands, Africa most inclusive and broke their primitive practices, enduring death in ugliest descriptions , persecutions that sometimes defy adequate explanation to the understanding of  most modern Pentecostal's merry go easy understandings. What you criticize today, in totality, was the same weapon they used to survive the evil forests of your fore-fathers and made most of your brethren Catholics long before the arrival of the flashy gospel of Pentecostalism. It was that same Catholic teaching that moved them to forfeit the pleasures of this life and its private jets to face the persecutions and the difficulties that lurked in  most of our barbaric lands. I'm from the North, stories still abound of how priests were shot dead with arrows one after another but kept coming until they had to listen to their messages. There is virtually no place on this earth without Catholics, just thinks of the most hostile of places. This is to say the least!

Now the land is broken, alot of ill informed and unserious Catholics abound for Shiny, well dressed, well fed, easy speaking, beautiful scenario painting, worldly hope giving Pentecostals to convert. Second wave of conversion, easy. Thus, the Catholic Church is the smelly Church, filled with everything appalling. Easy, yours is bad, mine is better, so come! Now the phrase 'pope in hell' is employed to lure people into consuming whatever information you have to pass, it now sounds very interesting. I'm sure if I single out a particular popular pastor with such an unfounded phase, what it would draw from his flock would be immediate condemnation and invocation of God's wrath on me, supporting it with relevant portion of the Bible. But now, yours is catchy!

Pope in hell indeed!!!!

alexleo:

validator,
you are not a catholic so shut up!
Allow catholics to answer the questions I asked them and stop jumping into discussions foolishly.

I think that statement applies more to you.

chukwudi44,
i ve come accross some catholics on this issue of born again and they ve always told me that  no one can live a holy life on earth so born again doesnt take place on earth until one dies and that person is prayed for. After that prayer, the person's sin will be forgiven and his soul received in heaven. Now you are saying that all catholics believe in being born again is your own catholic different? I dont even subscribe to how some penticostals go about this born thing. For one to be born again it requires a sincere prayer with a truly repentant heart. Not just somebody raising up hands and saying anything. I ll still get back to you on the issue of praying for the dead as recorded in 1peter 3:19 where you quoted. God bless you.

i ve come accross some catholics on this issue of born again and they ve always told me that no one can live a holy life on earth so born again doesnt take place on earth until one dies and that person is prayed for. After that prayer, the person's sin will be forgiven and his soul received in heaven

This is not a teaching of the catholic church.You do not just listen to what anybody who calls a himself/herself a catholic says an conclude It is the teaching of the catholic church.Always try to find out the truth before commenting.
see the link below to find out more about the teachings of the catholic church.

http://www.scripturecatholic.com/

The definition of the term "born again" differs from denomination to denomination.But we catholics see born again as involving two major sacraments,Baptism ,which washes away the original sin and which actually makes you christian and finally through the sacrament of confirmation throgh which the holy spirit is imparted by the laying of
hands.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Born_again_(Christianity)

Pentecostals simply define the term bornagain by just simply making a profession of faith in Jesus and asking him to take over the person's life.While the prayer in itself is not bad but the first thing should be done i.e Baptism which actually makes us christians. Our Lord Jesus christ never needed baptism but he just had to be baptised just to show us the example to follow,that was the very first thing before he started his ministry after which the holy spirit descended on him .

The Ethiopian Enuch after listening to philip was baptised, even when he had already beleived in Jesus,I could go on and on,the list is endless.Simply making a profession of faith without water and holy spirit baptism does not make you born again.

Jesus mentioned two major things about beign born again

1.You must be born of Water([[/b]color=#000099]water baptism[/color])

2.You must be born of the [b]spirit

These are the two major processes involved in beign born again

Well said. If only the truth will be accepted.

I just want to correct misconception about the new testament been written by the catholic church without joing in the arguement. The apostles were non-denominational christians. In other words, they were not catholics. Therefore, the new testament was not written by catholics.