dexmond:

I just want to correct misconception about the new testament been written by the catholic church without joing in the arguement. The apostles were non-denominational christians. In other words, they were not catholics. Therefore, the new testament was not written by catholics.

Even though you say you don't want to argue, I'm afraid I have to implore you to defend what you have said.

What is 'The Catholic Church'?

The Catholic Church does not see itself as a denomination so on what basis do you say it is one?

What is a denomination?

I humbly await your answers but if you do not have answers it's okay. It's always better to ask about what you don't know than try to force ignorance on others(who might know more than you do).

The house of god in confusion. A single document of frozen ignorance wuld surely be a root of confusion. And what is pathetic is that each group has dis foolhardy idea that they are right and the thousands of divergent groups are destined to hell.

i ve come accross some catholics on this issue of born again and they ve always told me that no one can live a holy life on earth so born again doesnt take place on earth until one dies and that person is prayed for. After that prayer, the person's sin will be forgiven and his soul received in heaven

@poster Alexleo, you are just an ignorant, lying infidel. i dare you produce a catholic that tells you that he doesnt belive in being born again and is just waiting to die so that he can be prayed for to go to heaven. some of you dont even think with your heads again

@ Italo

I mean to say the Roman Catholic Church OK. the word catholic means universal.

@xlad21,
i would have clarified you more on this but your way of response is too foolish for me to do that. May be you belong to the group of touts who find it difficult to polish their statements when issues are being discussed. so i throw your response into the waste bin until you get your languages polish. My threads are not open to touts.

The Catholic Church is the same Church the Apostles built and it's not a denomination. If your reason for thinking that the Catholic Church is a denomination is that there are many other Churches with different doctrines then that means the apostles too were not 'non-denominational' like you put it because there were also other Christian groups that taught a different doctrine from what the apostles were teaching and this is evident from the verses in the Bible that warned the early Christians against following a different doctrine. Like it or not. Peter was the head of the same Church that has Pope Benedict XVI as its head today. If you are still adamant, then perhaps you have to furnish me with the date the Catholic Church started and also tell me what happened to the Church that Jesus told the apostles the gates of hades wouldn't prevail against.

@ Italo

Ahh! Peter was never a bishop in Rome talkless of being a Pope there. If he were at Rome, why did the Apostle Paul not acknowledge him when he wrote to the Church supposedly headed by "Pope Peter" there? Here I reproduce Roman 16:1-27. More than twenty names were mentioned, and you know that "Pope Peter" should have come first!


Think about it.


Romans Chapter 16:1-27



1 I commend unto you Phebe our sister, which is a servant of the church which is at Cenchrea:

2 That ye receive her in the Lord, as becometh saints, and that ye assist her in whatsoever business she hath need of you: for she hath been a succourer of many, and of myself also.

3 Greet Priscilla and Aquila my helpers in Christ Jesus:

4 Who have for my life laid down their own necks: unto whom not only I give thanks, but also all the churches of the Gentiles.

5 Likewise [greet] the church that is in their house. Salute my wellbeloved Epaenetus, who is the firstfruits of Achaia unto Christ.

6 Greet Mary, who bestowed much labour on us.

7 Salute Andronicus and Junia, my kinsmen, and my fellowprisoners, who are of note among the apostles, who also were in Christ before me.

8 Greet Amplias my beloved in the Lord.

9 Salute Urbane, our helper in Christ, and Stachys my beloved.

10 Salute Apelles approved in Christ. Salute them which are of Aristobulus' [household].

11 Salute Herodion my kinsman. Greet them that be of the [household] of Narcissus, which are in the Lord.

12 Salute Tryphena and Tryphosa, who labour in the Lord. Salute the beloved Persis, which laboured much in the Lord.

13 Salute Rufus chosen in the Lord, and his mother and mine.

14 Salute Asyncritus, Phlegon, Hermas, Patrobas, Hermes, and the brethren which are with them.

15 Salute Philologus, and Julia, Nereus, and his sister, and Olympas, and all the saints which are with them.

16 Salute one another with an holy kiss. The churches of Christ salute you.

17 Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.

18 For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple.

19 For your obedience is come abroad unto all [men]. I am glad therefore on your behalf: but yet I would have you wise unto that which is good, and simple concerning evil.

20 And the God of peace shall bruise Satan under your feet shortly. The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ [be] with you. Amen.

21 Timotheus my workfellow, and Lucius, and Jason, and Sosipater, my kinsmen, salute you.

22 I Tertius, who wrote [this] epistle, salute you in the Lord.

23 Gaius mine host, and of the whole church, saluteth you. Erastus the chamberlain of the city saluteth you, and Quartus a brother.

24 The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ [be] with you all. Amen.

25 Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,

26 But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:

27 To God only wise, [be] glory through Jesus Christ for ever. Amen.

@desmond.

Did Peter and Paul die in the bible?Do you know when the letter to the Romans was written? Even Paul himself had not gone to Rome when that letter was written.

St Peter was first Bishop of antioch ,before moving to Rome to become bishop of Rome.That peter and Paul died in Rome was attested by several of the church fathers. St Ireneaus of lyons,Ignatius of antioch,Clement of Rome,clement of Alexandria,Tertullian of carthage,Ambrose of Milan,Augustine of Hippo,Jerome just top mention but a few.

If you want to tell me their testimony is unreliable,remember they also gave us the bible,is the bible unreliable?

They provided us with the authentic gospels as well as the identity of their authors since the entire gospels were anonymous.If you disregard their testimonies concerning Peter ,you can also disregard their testimonies concerning the bible

@xlad21,
i would have clarified you more on this but your way of response is too foolish for me to do that. May be you belong to the group of touts who find it difficult to polish their statements when issues are being discussed. so i throw your response into the waste bin until you get your languages polish. My threads are not open to touts.

you are a big fool alexleo, let them place 2 of us besides each other and know who is the tout. you cant even get your english correctly, bad grammer, poor diction. if you are looking for attention, go find somewhere to get a good Mouth Action and stop displaying your ignorance to the whole forum. WRETCH!

Ignorance is bliss, this goes to show what u know about the Catholic faith.
Go and study all you can about purgatory and you will then understand.
by the way there is no salvation outside the church. Our Lord Jesus Christ gave his Church the power to
bind and loose in his name, and not even your prophet have such power and authority.

when a man dies FORGIVENESS OF SIN IS IMPOSSIBLE BECAUSE HE CARRIES HIS SPIRITUAL BODY. JESUS DIED IN THE FLESH NOT IN THE SPIRIT.HIS BODY WAS NAILED TO THE CROSS NOT HIS SPIRIT BEING.SO YOU CAN ONLY BE SAVED IN THE BODY AND RESURRECT AS A SPIRIT LIKE JESUS.

i care:

, SO YOU CAN ONLY BE SAVED IN THE BODY AND RESURRECT AS A SPIRIT LIKE JESUS.

So Christ's resurrection was not bodily but just spiritual?

, Humn,

@ i care,
you are right and thats all am saying and have no appologise to render to anyone about it. Someone who is traveling will always prepare before he embarks on the journey. We can only prepare for heaven while we are aive here on earth. For someone to believe that part of the preparation will be completed in a place called purgatory is a dangerous belief. Anybody can give the bible any interpretation but it will be dangerous for someone to cross over to eternity and discorvers that there is no other opportunity to prepare than when u were on earth. And there will be no remedy. Terrible. God bless u.

you are right and thats all am saying and have no appologise to render to anyone about it. Someone who is traveling will always prepare before he embarks on the journey. We can only prepare for heaven while we are aive here on earth. For someone to believe that part of the preparation will be completed in a place called purgatory is a dangerous belief. Anybody can give the bible any interpretation but it will be dangerous for someone to cross over to eternity and discorvers that there is no other opportunity to prepare than when u were on earth. And there will be no remedy. Terrible. God bless u.

Young Man,God has made things his own way,if you don't like it you can take it up with him.By the way nobody in the catholic church is encourage to hope in purgatory.Everone is encouraged to fight for heaven,but as long as the teaching of purgatory is in the bible,it must be taught.

You can go ahead scold Jesus for giving the people of Noah's time a second chance,Since you think are more perfect than them or even scold St Paul for praying for dead onesiphorous or preaching baptism of the dead

SO YOU CAN ONLY BE SAVED IN THE BODY AND RESURRECT AS A SPIRIT LIKE JESUS.

this is heresy

really?[img]http://s07.flagcounter.com/count/DymW/bg=ffffff/txt=ffffff/border=ffffff/columns=1/maxflags=1/viewers=3/labels=0/[/img]

Really!

The catholic church is a Big secret society from the scratch even if hell is real or heaven , which i dont belive exist see its just a state of mind, this people have changed relevant part of the Bible
causing confusion, so o watch the movie Angel and Demons

chukwudi44,
my dear, we are living in the time of grace which the generation of Noah didnt enjoy. Also in their own time God spoke only through his prophets but today you and I have the word of God- the bible to read. Today the spirit of God dwells in us and speaks to us unlike in their days. Because of his grace, sinners today do not receive instant judgement like them rather God gives so much time and even allows the person to hear his word through preachers on television, magazines, churches and other means of evanngelism. The event you were mentioning about Noah's generation was the only way they could benefit from the death of Jesus but  today everyone of us has uninterupted access to God through Jesus. In their own days it was through the high priest and sacrifice of animal that their sins could be atoned for but for us God has sacrificed his best- Jesus, for us. Today you can stay anywhere and pray and God will hear you and forgive your sins. You think after all this things that God has made available to our generation he will still judge us like them or give you purgatory whatever?. The bible says- to whom much is given, much is expected. Much has been given to our generation and much is expected of us. Again it was difficult for the people of Noah to believe that God can use water to wipe away the world and that entering an ark built by one old man will save them from the destruction. But in our own time many of us has proved that the word of God is real in our lives, we have seen it in other people's lives, God is making his power manifest in this world  so you cannot expect us to be judged the same way with them. Whatever you feel paul wrote about the dead is definitey about the dead in Christ because paul always wrote about the dead in Christ in his epistle. The bible said that whosoever that sinneth is of the devil so its either one dies a child of God without sin or a child of devil with sin. Sin is sin in the eyes of God. However, my prayer is that God should guide all of us aright and give us the grace to serve him in spirit and in truth so as to make heaven. Amen. God bless you.

Why will they not go to hell

Pictures like these should not be encouraged, this is pure photoshop! WE should learn to respect the religious inclinations of others. I am not a Roman Catholic but I am fully and completely against this type of photography or art work.