This thread will be dealing with the stories in the Quran, are they myths or historical?

We should know that a myth is a traditional story, especially one concerning the early history of a people or explaining a natural or social phenomenon, and typically involving supernatural beings.

A myth is also a widely held but false belief or idea.
Source

A myth can actually be an event that truly happened but only spread orally(oral poetry, anecdotes) and later on some fairy-stories are distorted with it. A myth can have a little evidence or no evidence at all, it's only believe by faith, it's a folklore that is not objectively true. Myths mostly involve supernatural events and gods.

Now, reading the Quran many stories in the Quran are filled with ancient mythical stories known by other cultures, some are actually copied myths while some are rip-off of ancient myths.

- THE SEPARATION OF HEAVEN AND EARTH MYTH.

The Quran said the heaven and earth were together that Allah separated them.

Have those who disbelieved not considered that the heavens and the earth were a joined entity, and We separated them and made from water every living thing? Then will they not believe? (Quran 21:30)

There are also similar events in other cultures mythology.

- In the ancient Greek mythology, Cronus separated heaven from Earth.
Source


- In ancient Yoruba mythology.
Olorun the God of heaven, orishas and all that exist separated heaven from earth.
Source

- In the Jewish mythology, Yahweh separated heaven from earth.
The book of Genesis (Genesis 1:1-25).

- In Hindu creation mythology, Vishnu created the universe and separated heaven and earth.
Source

- Creation myths of ancient Mesopotamia typically begin with the separation of heaven and earth, giving rise to a three-story universe that includes heaven above, earth in the middle, and the underworld below.
Source

And it goes on like that.

This ancient myths in cultures were known long before the Quran came that the heaven was separated from earth, the Quran came confirming same myths which is false and made out of ignorance. The earth is just a very tiny dust in the milky way galaxy, how the heaven was together with the earth is something I still don't understand and I find it ridiculous.

- CREATION OF MAN FROM CLAY MYTH

The Quran made this claim that man was created from clay, dust, sand, mud and water.

And certainly did We create man from an extract of clay. (Quran 23:12)

There are other similar creation myth in other cultures.

- In Greek mythology, according to Pseudo-Apollodorus (Bibliotheca, 1.7.1), Prometheus molded men out of water and earth.

- In Sumerian mythology the gods Enki or Enlil create a servant of the gods, humankind, out of clay and blood (see Enki and the Making of Man). In another Sumerian story, both Enki and Ninmah create humans from the clay of the Abzu, the fresh water of the underground. They take turns in creating and decreeing the fate of the humans.

- In the Epic of Gilgamesh Enkidu is created by the godess Aruru out off clay to be a partner for Gilgamesh, "mighty in strength".

- According to Egyptian mythology the god Khnum creates human children from clay before placing them into their mother's womb.

- In the Babylonian creation epic Enuma Elish, the goddess Ninhursag created humans from clay.

- According to Hindu mythology the mother of Ganesh, Parvati, made Ganesh from clay and turned the clay into flesh and blood.

- The Yoruba culture holds that the god Obatala likewise created the human race from clay.

- According to Genesis 2:7 "And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul".

Source

And it goes on like that.

We can see this creation myth is known before the Quran came with different versions and their gods, the Quran again confirmed ancient myth known in the past, God/s shaped/moulded man using clay, this was made up out of ignorance and imaginations. Some Muslims might come here and say but science postulated man could have come from clay citing some clay hypothesis that's very weak. Clay is a product of silicon and the Quran mentioned like three-four silicate materials and water, there's no silicon in humans not even 1%.

Now the fact is no one knows the origin of life yet, what we read are theories and hypothesis postulating the origin of life.

- THE FLOOD MYTH

The Quran also narrate a story how God warned the people for their sinful behavior by sending Noah, the people rejected the warning and God got angry and commanded Noah to build an ark and take in his family and creatures. God then sent down shower of rain to the world which became a global flood wiping out the disbelievers. This is narrated in (Quran 71:1-28)

Now this similar flood myth can be found in other cultures mythologies, we can read the list of flood myth Here.

Noah's story which is found in the Jewish mythology and reformed in the Quran has a similar story/poem which is The epic of Gilgamesh: Sumerian flood myth that dated back (2100–2000 BCE), Gilgamesh’s supposed historical reign is believed to have been approximately (2700 BCE).

Here is the summary of the story,

The Flood Myth:

The Sumerian hero Gilgamesh traveled the world in search of a way to cheat death. On one of his journeys, he came across an old man, Utnapishtim, who told Gilgamesh a story from centuries past. The gods brought a flood that swallowed the earth.

The gods were angry at mankind so they sent a flood to destroy him. The god Ea, warned Utnapishtim and instructed him to build an enormous boat to save himself, his family, and "the seed of all living things." He does so, and the gods brought rain which caused the water to rise for many days. When the rains subsided, the boat landed on a mountain, and Utnapishtim set loose first a dove, then a swallow, and finally a raven, which found land. The god Ishtar, created the rainbow and placed it in the sky, as a reminder to the gods and a pledge to mankind that there would be no more floods.
Source

Reading the mythology above, it looks so very similar with the Abrahamic religion Noah's ark story, the epic of Gilgamesh must have been known to the Hebrews which they copied it from, the Quran came confirming same mythology.

In the geologic record there's no evidence of global flood nor the historicity of Noah as regard to the myth of Abrahamic religion. Source 1 , Source 2

This is intriguing. I think it is long overdue for adherents of Abrahamic religions to discuss the Sumerian roots of their scriptures.

usermane:
This is intriguing. I think it is long overdue for adherents of Abrahamic religions to discuss the Sumerian roots of their scriptures.

It will surprise you that most of the stories in Abrahamic scriptures are rip-off of mythical stories in Sumerian, Greek, Egyptian etc mythologies.

The idea that the Quran is a divine revelation is ridiculous.

- MOSES AND EXODUS MYTH

The Quran narrated a story of a prophet named Moses and how he was sent to Pharaoh to free the Jews, there is also when Moses and the Jews crossed the red Sea.

(Quran 19:51-53).

Now the questions are, is there actually a person of Moses, did the Exodus happened, who was the Pharaoh and was there any time a Pharaoh chased some Jews fleeing?

The historicity of Moses is still a debate but the modern scholarly consensus is that the figure of Moses is legendary, and not historical and certainly no Egyptian sources mention Moses or the events of Exodus–Deuteronomy, nor has any archaeological evidence been discovered in Egypt or the Sinai wilderness to support the story in which he is the central figure. Source

Now to Pharaoh, the Egyptian Pharaohs are well recorded, there's no record of any Pharaoh chasing some Jews. The most used Pharaoh in Exodus is Ramesses II but there are no records of him chasing some slave Jews.

Ramesses II (c. 1279–1213 BC): Also known as Ramesses the Great, he is the most commonly imagined figure in popular culture (most widely via the 1956 film The Ten Commandments), being one of the most long standing rulers at the height of Egyptian power, but, as with all other Pharaohs, there is no documentary or archaeological evidence that he chased any slaves fleeing Egypt. Ramesses II's late 13th century BC stela in Beth Shan mentions two conquered peoples who came to "make obeisance to him" in his city of Raameses or Pi-Ramesses but mentions neither the building of the city nor, as some have written, the Israelites or Hapiru.
Source

- The Exodus is a myth and has no archaeological evidence, here is from an archaeologists. Source

- An Egyptian lawyer wanted to sue the Jews for biblical plunder. Source

There's no archaeological and historical evidence for Moses and the Exodus event, the Quran came copied a myth that didn't happen or has no basis of fact.

tintingz:
- THE SEPARATION OF HEAVEN AND EARTH MYTH.

The Quran said the heaven and earth were together the Allah separated them.

Have those who disbelieved not considered that the heavens and the earth were a joined entity, and We separated them and made from water every living thing? Then will they not believe? (Quran 21:30)

There are also similar events in other cultures mythology.

- In the ancient Greek mythology, Cronus separated heaven from Earth.
Source


- In ancient Yoruba mythology.
Olorun the God of heaven, orishas and all that exist separated heaven from earth.
Source

- In the Jewish mythology, Yahweh separated heaven from earth.
The book of Genesis (Genesis 1:26-27).

- In Hindu creation mythology, Vishnu created the universe and separated heaven and earth.
Source

- Creation myths of ancient Mesopotamia typically begin with the separation of heaven and earth, giving rise to a three-story universe that includes heaven above, earth in the middle, and the underworld below.
Source

And it goes on like that.

This ancient myths in cultures is known long before the Quran came that the heaven was separated from earth, the Quran came confirming same myths which is false and made out of ignorance. The earth is just a very tiny dust in the milky way galaxy, how the heaven was together with earth is something I still don't understand and I find it ridiculous.

The creation of every living thing from water in the Qur'an too is a lie right? After all the research science has done the big bang has already been revealed to the ancient people, I never knew it was this popular. Truly Allah sent messengers to all nations.

usermane:
This is intriguing. I think it is long overdue for adherents of Abrahamic religions to discuss the Sumerian roots of their scriptures.

We're not pagans and what Allah has giving us is enough. The history of the Jews is enough. By Allah you have hypocrisy in your heart. I have been telling you to seek knowledge from a true scholar of Islam, but you have refused. Allah is a witness and know that if you fail to do this, you will be questioned about it on the day of Judgement.

tintingz:
- MOSES AND EXODUS MYTH

The narrated a story of a prophet named Moses and how he was sent to Pharaoh to free the Jews, there is also when Moses and the Jews crossed the red Sea.

(Quran 19:51-53).

Now the questions are, is there actually a person of Moses, did the Exodus happened, who was the Pharaoh and was there any time a Pharaoh chased some Jews fleeing?

The historicity of Moses is still a debate but the modern scholarly consensus is that the figure of Moses is legendary, and not historical and certainly no Egyptian sources mention Moses or the events of Exodus–Deuteronomy, nor has any archaeological evidence been discovered in Egypt or the Sinai wilderness to support the story in which he is the central figure. Source

Now to Pharaoh, the Egyptian Pharaohs are well recorded, there's no record of any Pharaoh chasing some Jews. The most used Pharaoh in Exodus is Ramesses II but there are no records of him chasing some slave Jews.

Ramesses II (c. 1279–1213 BC): Also known as Ramesses the Great, he is the most commonly imagined figure in popular culture (most widely via the 1956 film The Ten Commandments), being one of the most long standing rulers at the height of Egyptian power, but, as with all other Pharaohs, there is no documentary or archaeological evidence that he chased any slaves fleeing Egypt. Ramesses II's late 13th century BC stela in Beth Shan mentions two conquered peoples who came to "make obeisance to him" in his city of Raameses or Pi-Ramesses but mentions neither the building of the city nor, as some have written, the Israelites or Hapiru.
Source

- The Exodus is a myth and has no archaeological evidence, here is from an archaeologists. Source

- An Egyptian lawyer wanted to sue the Jews for biblical plunder. Source

There's no archaeological and historical evidence for Moses and the Exodus event, the Quran came copied a myth that didn't happen or has no basis of fact.

You're a fool o. So you mean that the Jews are total Idiots and that the person they believe in is a hoax? Hahahahaha

tintingz:
- THE FLOOD MYTH

The Quran also narrate a story how God warned the people for their sinful behavior by sending Noah, the people rejected the warning and God got angry and commanded Noah to build an ark and take in his family and creatures. God then sent down shower of rain to the world which became a global flood wiping out the disbelievers. This is narrated in (Quran 71:1-28)

Now this similar flood myth can be found in other cultures mythologies, we can read the list of flood myth Here.

Noah's story which is found in the Jewish mythology and reformed in the Quran has a similar story/poem which is The epic of Gilgamesh: Sumerian flood myth that dated back (2100–2000 BCE), Gilgamesh’s supposed historical reign is believed to have been approximately (2700 BCE).

Here is the summary of the story,

The Flood Myth:

The Sumerian hero Gilgamesh traveled the world in search of a way to cheat death. On one of his journeys, he came across an old man, Utnapishtim, who told Gilgamesh a story from centuries past. The gods brought a flood that swallowed the earth.

The gods were angry at mankind so they sent a flood to destroy him. The god Ea, warned Utnapishtim and instructed him to build an enormous boat to save himself, his family, and "the seed of all living things." He does so, and the gods brought rain which caused the water to rise for many days. When the rains subsided, the boat landed on a mountain, and Utnapishtim set loose first a dove, then a swallow, and finally a raven, which found land. The god Ishtar, created the rainbow and placed it in the sky, as a reminder to the gods and a pledge to mankind that there would be no more floods.
Source

Reading the mythology above it looks so very similar to Abrahamic religion Noah's ark story, the epic of Gilgamesh must have been known to the Hebrews which they copied it from, the Quran came confirming same mythology.

In the geologic record there's no evidence of global flood nor the historicity of Noah concerning the myth of Abrahamic religion. Source Source

Foolishness

tintingz:
- CREATION OF MAN FROM CLAY MYTH

The Quran made this claim that man was created from clay, dust, sand, mud and water.

And certainly did We create man from an extract of clay. (Quran 23:12)

There are other similar creation myth in other cultures.

- In Greek mythology, according to Pseudo-Apollodorus (Bibliotheca, 1.7.1), Prometheus molded men out of water and earth.

- In Sumerian mythology the gods Enki or Enlil create a servant of the gods, humankind, out of clay and blood (see Enki and the Making of Man). In another Sumerian story, both Enki and Ninmah create humans from the clay of the Abzu, the fresh water of the underground. They take turns in creating and decreeing the fate of the humans.

- In the Epic of Gilgamesh Enkidu is created by the godess Aruru out off clay to be a partner for Gilgamesh, "mighty in strength".

- According to Egyptian mythology the god Khnum creates human children from clay before placing them into their mother's womb.

- In the Babylonian creation epic Enuma Elish, the goddess Ninhursag created humans from clay.

- According to Hindu mythology the mother of Ganesh, Parvati, made Ganesh from clay and turned the clay into flesh and blood.

- The Yoruba culture holds that the god Obatala likewise created the human race from clay.

- According to Genesis 2:7 "And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul".

Source

And it goes on like that.

We can see this creation myth is known before the Quran came with different versions and their gods, the Quran again confirmed ancient myth known in the past, God/s shaped/moulded man using clay, this was made up out of ignorance and imaginations. Some Muslims might come here and said but science postulated man could have come from clay citing some clay hypothesis that's very weak. Clay is a product of silicon and the Quran mentioned like three-four silicate materials and water, there's no silicon in humans not even 1%.

Now the fact is no one knows the origin of life yet, what we read are theories and hypothesis postulating the origin of life.

You're a joke I swear.

najib632:
The creation of every living thing from water in the Qur'an too is a lie right?

In the Greek mythology living things were created from dirt, clay and water.

After all the research science has done the big bang has already been revealed to the ancient people, I never knew it was this popular. Truly Allah sent messengers to all nations.

Lol, the heaven together with earth and separated is not big bang but myth from human imaginations and ignorance, and the Quran copied this same idea of myth.

And no, Allah didn't sent any prophet to all nations, these myths was known long before the Quran came and it talks about different versions of tale with their gods. You need to provide evidence Allah sent prophets to other nations.

najib632:
You're a fool o. So you mean that the Jews are total Idiots and that the person they believe in is a hoax? Hahahahaha

Understand what a myth is.

tintingz:
In the Greek mythology living things were created from dirt, clay and water.

Lol, the heaven together with earth and separated is not big bang but myth from human imaginations and ignorance, and the Quran copied this same idea of myth.

And no, Allah didn't sent any prophet to all nations, these myths was known long before the Quran came and it talks about different versions of tale with their gods. You need to provide evidence Allah sent prophets to other nations.

of course I will when I have your time, because you insincerity bores me. Un shaa Allah all our previous arguments will be cleared too

- HEAVEN/PARADISE AND HELL MYTH

Almost in every religion and cultures have their fairy place where people will go after death.

The Quran version of paradise and hell is not a new things to the people in the past, there are various myths of what will happen after death.

Paradise and Hell (Quran, 47:15), (Quran 3:192).

The Jews have their version of afterlife, Christians have their version of afterlife and if you don't believe in their God you will burn in their version of hell forever. Funny right?

- Now in the ancient Greek mythology, they have their version of afterlife.

Elysium is the paradise version in the ancient Greek mythology where heroes and those chosen after death by the gods. Source

Hades is hell in the ancient Greek mythology, the underworld.
Source

- Zoroastrianism religion the version of their afterlife may have influenced the Abrahamic version of afterlife.

Individual judgment at death is by the Bridge of Judgment, which each human must cross, facing a spiritual judgment. Humans' actions under their free will determine the outcome. One is either greeted at the bridge by a beautiful, sweet-smelling maiden or by an ugly, foul-smelling old woman. The maiden leads the dead safely across the bridge to the Amesha Spenta Good Mind, who carries the dead to paradise. The old woman leads the dead down a bridge that narrows until the departed falls off into the abyss of hell.
Source

This mythology above looks similar to Quran version of afterlife.

- In ancient Egyptian mythology Aaru is said to be the Paradise.

In ancient Egyptian mythology, the fields of Aaru (/ɑːˈruː/; Ancient Egyptian: jꜣrw "Reeds, rushes" ), known also as sḫt-jꜣrw or the Field of Reeds, are the heavenly paradise where Osiris rules once he had displaced Anubis in the Ogdoad. It has been described as the ka (a part of the soul) of the Nile Delta.
Source

While Duat is the hell in ancient Egyptian mythology.
Source

- There is also Valhalla the paradise in the Norse mythology
Source

Hinduism, Buddhism, Taoism, Jainism and other faith out there have their own version of afterlife, it seems humans can't do without imagining what will happen afterlife that it result to different fairytales of afterlife, now the question is which one is the true one?

najib632:
of course I will when I have your time, because you insincerity bores me. Un shaa Allah all our previous arguments will be cleared too

Ok.

najib632:
We're not pagans and what Allah has giving us is enough. The history of the Jews is enough. By Allah you have hypocrisy in your heart. I have been telling you to seek knowledge from a true scholar of Islam, but you have refused. Allah is a witness and know that if you fail to do this, you will be questioned about it on the day of Judgement.

My point is that you need to stop claiming all the stories in the Bible and Qur'an are original. There is ample evidence that Judaism is an extension of Sumerian religion as Islam is an extension of Christianity.

usermane:


My point is that you need to stop claiming all the stories in the Bible and Qur'an are original. There is ample evidence that Judaism is an extension of Sumerian religion as Islam is an extension of Christianity.

You have become a kafir revert back to islam. The religion with Allah has always been Islam, that absolute monotheism. Hebrews have more prophets than any other race on the earth, so what do you want to trace to Sumerians? It's is not an extension of christianity, it's a new version or purer version of Judaism with a new and better scripture. Christianity is a corrupted version of Judaism. When we tell you to go and find a true scholar and study under you'll be feeling arrogant. This is the result of reading rubbish on the internet and disrespecting the scholars and hadith. I will not be surprised if you apostate. Because right now you are out of the fold of Islam.

najib632:
You have become a kafir revert back to islam. The religion with Allah has always been Islam, that absolute monotheism.

Fake monotheism. You seek Muhammad's intercession like pagan Arabs sought their idols' - alat, al uzza and manat- intercession, and you have the audacity to claim monotheism? You send blessings/greetings to Muhammad so that your supplications will be accepted, and yet you claim you're monotheist? You circumbulate a black stone, kissing it during pilgrimage, yet you do not see how much like a pagan ritual this is?

Hebrews have more prophets than any other race on the earth, so what do you want to trace to Sumerians? It's is not an extension of christianity, it's a new version or purer version of Judaism with a new and better scripture.

Despite evidence that Sumerians mythologies bear characters and events reflected by characters and events from the in the Torah, you still don't see the parallels.

A more responsible reply from you could've been that Allah did send messengers to the Sumerians and the Torah only reflect the previous message or scripture of Allah to the Sumerians.

Christianity is a corrupted version of Judaism. When we tell you to go and find a true scholar and study under you'll be feeling arrogant. This is the result of reading rubbish on the internet and disrespecting the scholars and hadith. I will not be surprised if you apostate. Because right now you are out of the fold of Islam.

Which scholars? You mean people with PhD in all disciplines on Islam? Then, here are few scholars whom for the most part I align with.

Ahmed Subhy Mansur - PhD in Islamic History.
Nasr Abu Zayd - PhD in Islamic Studies.

You think every Muslim scholar agree with you and your favorite scholar? Think again.

- DHUL-QARNAYN (ALEXANDER) AND GOG AND MAGOG MYTH

There is a myth of Alexander which is called Alexander Romance in ancient Greek texts and was transformed into various version in the Hebrew scriptures, Persian text, Armenian, Syriac and in the Quran. This story is a myth and not historical.

And The Syriac Alexander Legend, currently dated around 629-630 AD, has been found to closely resemble the story of Dhu al-Qarnayn in the Qur'an. Source

Dhul-Qarnayn (Alexander) is in (Quran 18:83-101).

Eastern accounts of Alexander’s fabled career paid a good deal of attention to the Gog and Magog episode, a version of this story being included in the Qurʾān. The Arabs, expanding Syrian versions of the legend, passed them on to the many peoples with whom they came in contact. Through them, the Persian poets, notably Neẓāmī in the 12th century, gave the stories new form.
Source

Gog and Magog myth. Source

The people of the past knew about this myth or legend, the Quran came confirm same myth and claim it's a revelation, this is not a divine revelation but folklore in the ancient Greek text.

usermane:


Fake monotheism. You seek Muhammad's intercession like pagan Arabs sought their idols' - alat, al uzza and manat- intercession, and you have the audacity to claim monotheism? You send blessings/greetings to Muhammad so that your supplications will be accepted, and yet you claim you're monotheist? You circumbulate a black stone, kissing it during pilgrimage, yet you do not see how much like a pagan ritual this is?

By Allah I will love the intercession of the prophet Muhammad S.A.W on the day of Judgement, but I will not be stupid enough not to strive hard enough to enter Jannah on my own. When we tell you we're Salafi you think it's just a bunch of die hard Orthodox Muslims eh?! Well too bad for you not even knowing the different sects in Islam and why they hate our movement and try to demonize us. There are sects in Islam that over praise Muhammad S.A.W. not only him but even his grand children, giving them attributes of Allah. When the prophet Muhammad S.A.W clearly said in ahadith:

حَدَّثَنَا الْحُمَيْدِيُّ، حَدَّثَنَا سُفْيَانُ، قَالَ سَمِعْتُ الزُّهْرِيَّ، يَقُولُ أَخْبَرَنِي عُبَيْدُ اللَّهِ بْنُ عَبْدِ اللَّهِ، عَنِ ابْنِ عَبَّاسٍ، سَمِعَ عُمَرَ ـ رضى الله عنه ـ يَقُولُ عَلَى الْمِنْبَرِ سَمِعْتُ النَّبِيَّ صلى الله عليه وسلم يَقُولُ‏ "‏ لاَ تُطْرُونِي كَمَا أَطْرَتِ النَّصَارَى ابْنَ مَرْيَمَ، فَإِنَّمَا أَنَا عَبْدُهُ، فَقُولُوا عَبْدُ اللَّهِ وَرَسُولُهُ ‏".

Narrated `Umar:

I heard the Prophet (ﷺ) saying, "Do not exaggerate in praising me as the Christians praised the son of Mary, for I am only a Slave. So, call me the Slave of Allah and His Apostle."

Reference : Sahih al-Bukhari 3445
In-book reference : Book 60, Hadith 115
USC-MSA web (English) reference : Vol. 4, Book 55, Hadith 654



The hadith mentioned above is super authentic. Anyone who exaggerates about the messenger of Allah S.A.W is on his own, we Salafis follow the Sunnah of Muhammad S.A.W, the Sahabah and the pious predecessors. That's why we need to learn and understand the Aqeda and there's no way you'll understand aqeada without reference to the Qur'an and Hadith. You are a weakling that's why you resulted to the bolded statement above, I will keep on telling you to seek knowledge from the Orthodox creed. By Allah you can be arrogant all you want it's your cup of tea, as long as the devil doesn't misguide anyone through you then I am satisfied. لا إله إلا الله محمد رسول الله ، فقت.
You want Allah to be how you want instead of you being how He wants. And it seems like you hate tge messenger of Allah S.A.W, if you don't repent you will meet great consequences on the day of Judgement.

updated
About the black stone:
It was narrated that ‘Umar (may Allaah be pleased with him) came to the Black Stone and kissed it, then he said: “I know that you are only a stone which can neither bring benefit nor cause harm. Were it not that I had seen the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) kiss you, I would not have kissed you.”

(Narrated by al-Bukhaari, 1520; Muslim, 1720)

It was narrated that Abu Tufayl (may Allaah be pleased with him) said: I saw the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) performing Tawaaf around the House, touching the corner [where the Stone is] with a crooked staff which he had with him, then kissing the staff.

(Narrated by Muslim, 1275).

It was narrated that Naafi’ said: I saw Ibn ‘Umar touch the Stone with his hand then he kissed his hand. I said, I have never ceased to do this since I saw the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) do it.

(Narrated by Muslim, 1268)

It was narrated that Ibn ‘Abbaas said: The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) performed Tawaaf on his camel, and every time he came to the corner [where the Stone is] he would point to it and say “Allaahu akbar.”

(Narrated by al-Bukhaari, 4987).

If you're truly a believer then these are verses for you to ponder on and know why I call your scholars fakes.

يَٰٓأَيُّهَا ٱلَّذِينَ ءَامَنُواْ ٱتَّقُواْ ٱللَّهَ وَءَامِنُواْ بِرَسُولِهِۦ يُؤۡتِكُمۡ كِفۡلَيۡنِ مِن رَّحۡمَتِهِۦ وَيَجۡعَل لَّكُمۡ نُورٗا تَمۡشُونَ بِهِۦ وَيَغۡفِرۡ لَكُمۡۚ وَٱللَّهُ غَفُورٞ رَّحِيمٞ

(Sahih International)
O you who have believed, fear Allah and believe in His Messenger; He will [then] give you a double portion of His mercy and make for you a light by which you will walk and forgive you; and Allah is Forgiving and Merciful.

-Sura Al-Hadid, Ayah 28

۞يَٰٓأَيُّهَا ٱلَّذِينَ ءَامَنُوٓاْ أَطِيعُواْ ٱللَّهَ وَأَطِيعُواْ ٱلرَّسُولَ وَلَا تُبۡطِلُوٓاْ أَعۡمَٰلَكُمۡ

(Sahih International)
O you who have believed, obey Allah and obey the Messenger and do not invalidate your deeds.

-Sura Muhammad, Ayah 33

About praising the prophet Muhammad S.A.W and sending blessing upon him is an order from Allah:

إِنَّ ٱللَّهَ وَمَلَٰٓئِكَتَهُۥ يُصَلُّونَ عَلَى ٱلنَّبِيِّۚ يَٰٓأَيُّهَا ٱلَّذِينَ ءَامَنُواْ صَلُّواْ عَلَيۡهِ وَسَلِّمُواْ تَسۡلِيمًا

(Sahih International)
Indeed, Allah confers blessing upon the Prophet, and His angels [ask Him to do so]. O you who have believed, ask [ Allah to confer] blessing upon him and ask [ Allah to grant him] peace.

-Sura Al-Ahzab, Ayah 56

Finally:
يَٰٓأَيُّهَا ٱلَّذِينَ ءَامَنُواْ ٱتَّقُواْ ٱللَّهَ وَكُونُواْ مَعَ ٱلصَّٰدِقِينَ

(Sahih International)
O you who have believed, fear Allah and be with those who are true.

-Sura At-Tawbah, Ayah 119

usermane:

Despite evidence that Sumerians mythologies bear characters and events reflected by characters and events from the in the Torah, you still don't see the parallels.

A more responsible reply from you could've been that Allah did send messengers to the Sumerians and the Torah only reflect the previous message or scripture of Allah to the Sumerians.

Alhamdulillah I didn't waste time, the answer cane to you.

usermane:

Which scholars? You mean people with PhD in all disciplines on Islam? Then, here are few scholars whom for the most part I align with.

Ahmed Subhy Mansur - PhD in Islamic History.
Nasr Abu Zayd - PhD in Islamic Studies.

You think every Muslim scholar agree with you and your favorite scholar? Think again.

Hahahahaha, you call a Qur'anist a scholar?! Hahahahaha by Allah if we should make a thorough check he hasn't even memorized the Qur'an. The true Ahlul-Quran are the memorizers and teachers of it. If we ask the so called Qur'anists about tajweed they don't know, we ask them about styles of recitation they don't know, about the dialects of Qur'an they don't know and they will be claiming scholar. Please who certified them? Which school of thought do they follow? If you want to know a true scholar read about Sheikh Nasirudeen Albaani R, Sheik Abdul Aziz ibn Abdullah ibn Baz and Sheikh Sheikh Muhammad ibn al-Uthaymeen. If you don't like them the read about the scholars from the predecessors the stories of the four Imams should suffice you. Allah is watching you and I, know that we will be questioned about this on the day of Judgement.

najib632:

Hahahahaha, you call a Qur'anist a scholar?! Hahahahaha by Allah if we should make a thorough check he hasn't even memorized the Qur'an. The true Ahlul-Quran are the memorizers and teachers of it. If we ask the so called Qur'anists about tajweed they don't know, we ask them about styles of recitation they don't know, about the dialects of Qur'an they don't know and they will be claiming scholar. Please who certified them? Which school of thought do they follow?

See? You not only want me to follow scholars but to follow the scholars of your choice. Isn't this bias of you? You immediately denounce those two I mentioned, why? Because they reject your creed? Well, those two were certified by Al Azhar and Cairo university respectively. At least, they are better qualified to speak on Islam than you. So, show a bit of respect.

If you want to know a true scholar read about Sheikh Nasirudeen Albaani R, Sheik Abdul Aziz ibn Abdullah ibn Baz and Sheikh Sheikh Muhammad ibn al-Uthaymeen. If you don't like them the read about the scholars from the predecessors the stories of the four Imams should suffice you. Allah is watching you and I, know that we will be questioned about this on the day of Judgement

I read the works of these kinds of scholars, but I wouldn't recommend them for any sane human being who want to progress in life. By justifying craps like killing Muslims who do not pray, beating wives with miswak or slave trade, these scholars immediately fail the morality test and I do not need these kind of scholars as moral compass to a better life. But I urge anyone who seek the root of intellectual stagnation in Muslimdom to read the works of these scholars.

najib632:


Hahahahaha, you call a Qur'anist a scholar?! Hahahahaha by Allah if we should make a thorough check he hasn't even memorized the Qur'an. The true Ahlul-Quran are the memorizers and teachers of it. If we ask the so called Qur'anists about tajweed they don't know, we ask them about styles of recitation they don't know, about the dialects of Qur'an they don't know and they will be claiming scholar. Please who certified them? Which school of thought do they follow? If you want to know a true scholar read about Sheikh Nasirudeen Albaani R, Sheik Abdul Aziz ibn Abdullah ibn Baz and Sheikh Sheikh Muhammad ibn al-Uthaymeen. If you don't like them the read about the scholars from the predecessors the stories of the four Imams should suffice you. Allah is watching you and I, know that we will be questioned about this on the day of Judgement.

You're committing "no true Scotsman" fallacy.

So you actually believe your own scholars are right on Islamic matters and others are wrong because it's doesn't suit your imaginations.

This is the problem with indoctrination, one become biased, when I said you belong to a sect you think I don't know what I'm saying?

tintingz:
You're committing "no true Scotsman" fallacy.

So you actually believe your own scholars are right on Islamic matters and others are wrong because it's doesn't suit your imaginations.

This is the problem with indoctrination, one become biased, when I said you belong to a sect you think I don't know what I'm saying?

Of course I beloong to a sect I never denied that, but my sect is based on the Creed of the messenger of Allah S.A.W his companions and the pious predecessors no forms of innovation in belief. My imaginations are kept aside in the matters of Islam because of this aayah:

يَا أَيُّهَا الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا أَطِيعُوا اللَّـهَ وَأَطِيعُوا الرَّ‌سُولَ وَأُولِي الْأَمْرِ‌ مِنكُمْ ۖ فَإِن تَنَازَعْتُمْ فِي شَيْءٍ فَرُ‌دُّوهُ إِلَى اللَّـهِ وَالرَّ‌سُولِ إِن كُنتُمْ تُؤْمِنُونَ بِاللَّـهِ وَالْيَوْمِ الْآخِرِ‌ ۚ ذَٰلِكَ خَيْرٌ‌ وَأَحْسَنُ تَأْوِيلًا[1]
4:59 "O ye who believe! Obey Allah, and obey the Messenger, and those charged with authority among you. If ye differ in anything among yourselves, refer it to Allah and His Messenger, if ye do believe in Allah and the Last Day: That is best, and most suitable for final determination.

When ever I have any objections I refer it to the scholars of the Orthodox creed. Because Allah commanded so. And how will you refer to the messenger of Allah S.A.W if not through the hadith? And how will you know the authenticity of the hadith or understand it if not through the scholars?

Allah has warned all the innovators:

وَمَن يُشَاقِقِ ٱلرَّسُولَ مِنۢ بَعۡدِ مَا تَبَيَّنَ لَهُ ٱلۡهُدَىٰ وَيَتَّبِعۡ غَيۡرَ سَبِيلِ ٱلۡمُؤۡمِنِينَ نُوَلِّهِۦ مَا تَوَلَّىٰ وَنُصۡلِهِۦ جَهَنَّمَۖ وَسَآءَتۡ مَصِيرًا

(Sahih International)
And whoever opposes the Messenger after guidance has become clear to him and follows other than the way of the believers - We will give him what he has taken and drive him into Hell, and evil it is as a destination.

-Sura An-Nisa', Ayah 115

usermane:


See? You not only want me to follow scholars but to follow the scholars of your choice. Isn't this bias of you? You immediately denounce those two I mentioned, why? Because they reject your creed? Well, those two were certified by Al Azhar and Cairo university respectively. At least, they are better qualified to speak on Islam than you. So, show a bit of respect.

A scholar from Al Azhar a Qur'anist?! He is a joke then, there are 1000s of students from Al Azhar that are truly Sunni and not mere Qur'anist, don't mess with me boy.

usermane:

I read the works of these kinds of scholars, but I wouldn't recommend them for any sane human being who want to progress in life. By justifying craps like killing Muslims who do not pray, beating wives with miswak or slave trade, these scholars immediately fail the morality test and I do not need these kind of scholars as moral compass to a better life. But I urge anyone who seek the root of intellectual stagnation in Muslimdom to read the works of these scholars.

لا هول و لا قوة إلا بالله
You see what I am saying? When we tell you that you're a Jaheel you will not agree? Show me any Recognised Sunni scholar that promotes terrorism or the above you said from the start of Islamic scholarship till date, Do you even know the biography of sheikh Muhammad Nasirudeen Albaani R? Sheik Abdul Aziz ibn Abdullah ibn Baz? and Sheikh Sheikh Muhammad ibn al-Uthaymeen? You're just a funny guy, this shows that you don't know anything but some who wants Islam to be like his imagination. You don't know that once you abandon Hadith you throw theology and Jurisprudence away. Then what knowledge will we use to stop innovations into the religion of Allah?

tintingz:
- MOSES AND EXODUS MYTH

The narrated a story of a prophet named Moses and how he was sent to Pharaoh to free the Jews, there is also when Moses and the Jews crossed the red Sea.

(Quran 19:51-53).

Now the questions are, is there actually a person of Moses, did the Exodus happened, who was the Pharaoh and was there any time a Pharaoh chased some Jews fleeing?

The historicity of Moses is still a debate but the modern scholarly consensus is that the figure of Moses is legendary, and not historical and certainly no Egyptian sources mention Moses or the events of Exodus–Deuteronomy, nor has any archaeological evidence been discovered in Egypt or the Sinai wilderness to support the story in which he is the central figure. Source

Now to Pharaoh, the Egyptian Pharaohs are well recorded, there's no record of any Pharaoh chasing some Jews. The most used Pharaoh in Exodus is Ramesses II but there are no records of him chasing some slave Jews.

Ramesses II (c. 1279–1213 BC): Also known as Ramesses the Great, he is the most commonly imagined figure in popular culture (most widely via the 1956 film The Ten Commandments), being one of the most long standing rulers at the height of Egyptian power, but, as with all other Pharaohs, there is no documentary or archaeological evidence that he chased any slaves fleeing Egypt. Ramesses II's late 13th century BC stela in Beth Shan mentions two conquered peoples who came to "make obeisance to him" in his city of Raameses or Pi-Ramesses but mentions neither the building of the city nor, as some have written, the Israelites or Hapiru.
Source

- The Exodus is a myth and has no archaeological evidence, here is from an archaeologists. Source

- An Egyptian lawyer wanted to sue the Jews for biblical plunder. Source

There's no archaeological and historical evidence for Moses and the Exodus event, the Quran came copied a myth that didn't happen or has no basis of fact.

Do you see parallels between Sargon Akkad and Moses in birth and infancy?

najib632:
A scholar from Al Azhar a Qur'anist?! He is a joke then, there are 1000s of students from Al Azhar that are truly Sunni and not mere Qur'anist, don't mess with me boy.

لا هول و لا قوة إلا بالله
You see what I am saying? When we tell you that you're a Jaheel you will not agree? Show me any Recognised Sunni scholar that promotes terrorism or the above you said from the start of Islamic scholarship till date, Do you even know the biography of sheikh Muhammad Nasirudeen Albaani R? Sheik Abdul Aziz ibn Abdullah ibn Baz? and Sheikh Sheikh Muhammad ibn al-Uthaymeen? You're just a funny guy, this shows that you don't know anything but some who wants Islam to be like his imagination. You don't know that once you abandon Hadith you throw theology and Jurisprudence away. Then what knowledge will we use to stop innovations into the religion of Allah?

There are over thousands of Muslim scholars in the world, they have knowledge of Islam and can back it up with Islamic texts but you choose some scholars and claim they are the right one and others are false, is that not your imagination/delusion?

usermane:


Do you see parallels between Sargon Akkad and Moses in birth and infancy?

Yes.

tintingz:


There are over thousands of Muslim scholars in the world, they have knowledge of Islam and can back it up with Islamic texts but you choose some scholars and claim they are the right one and others are false, is that not your imagination/delusion?

Look boy you're a Joke, go and learn the ranks of scholarship in Islam when you do that then we can talk, then check to see between the scholars I mentioned and @usermane's and see which of them rank the highest. Read their biographies too.

usermane:


Do you see parallels between Sargon Akkad and Moses in birth and infancy?

You're not hearing what am telling you, prefer to discuss delusions with an arrogant disbeliever than to ask for clarification from the more intelligent and knowledgeable brothers, if indeed in your heart you believe in Allah and his messenger then retract your disbelieving statement and repent to Allah. I also seek forgiveness from Allah, it could be because of the harshness I showed towards you, devil deceived you to think that's how the Salafi are.

najib632:
A scholar from Al Azhar a Qur'anist?! He is a joke then, there are 1000s of students from Al Azhar that are truly Sunni and not mere Qur'anist, don't mess with me boy.

Hahaha. There are others like him. May be not Quranist but they do not stick with orthodoxy. You never hear from these scholars because they are immediately censored, deplatformed and their certificates may be withdrawn for speaking out. No scholar want this.

Read on Ali Abdel Razaq.

You see what I am saying? When we tell you that you're a Jaheel you will not agree? Show me any Recognised Sunni scholar that promotes terrorism or the above you said from the start of Islamic scholarship till date, Do you even know the biography of sheikh Muhammad Nasirudeen Albaani R? Sheik Abdul Aziz ibn Abdullah ibn Baz? and Sheikh Sheikh Muhammad ibn al-Uthaymeen? You're just a funny guy, this shows that you don't know anything but some who wants Islam to be like his imagination. You don't know that once you abandon Hadith you throw theology and Jurisprudence away. Then what knowledge will we use to stop innovations into the religion of Allah?

Any Recongnized scholars that promote terrorism.

Muhammad Ibn Abdul Wahhab - The first Saudi state 1744 was founded on the terrorism by bin Saud's forces, sanctioned by fatwas of Ibn Abdul Wahhab.

I can keep going. All the earliest orthodox scholars agree it is the obligation of the Caliph, and the Caliph alone, to expand the caliphate by starting wars against Darul Harb - Non-Muslim lands, in order to conquer.