XxSabrinaxX:

Been (and still) observing your hyper-ventilating all over this thread for some time. Work and other stuff have restricted me from addressing your issue and your cringey arguments, but no worries. Your cup is full on this thread

Keep an eye out for this moniker. I'll be back for you...

Madame, for one I no dey argue with women, not even my wife. Women should be cared for and not dragged into endless bloodbath.


And why are we arguing? What would argument achieved? What is the purpose of the argument in first place?

There is an event / manifestation. Is the event/manifestation true or false... We can easily make a check

However, we are battling over how to event /manifestation happens.

Money miss road be that

FOLYKAZE:


Oga shut up. You were jumping over yourself when a dolt claimed the BBC interview with the dibia is false.

However, the story as narrated by the interviewer shows rain actually dropped (very minimal) as promised. And when they were about to leave, the dibia told them it would rain heavy and it happened. You are simply clinging on Weather Report Program and dismissing the facts that dibia could control weather with spiritual arts.

This guy is empty-headed.
So u believe a report that the dibia created rain without any proof of it because the interviewer who is also a Nigerian said so. Not like they actually put the dibia a series of tests or anything. Just one video that has been edited and u are happy.
Yet u want us to take u seriously. There is no hope for u bro. If at this age u are so gullible and steeped in foolishness we can only pray u didn't pass those foolishness down to your own kids.

The thing is science can't explain everything and scientists themselves know this, when certain things cannot be explained by science due to limitations beyond their comprehension they tend to use carefully worded statements to attribute it to dark matter and energy.

FOLYKAZE:


Oga shut up. You were jumping over yourself when a dolt claimed the BBC interview with the dibia is false.

However, the story as narrated by the interviewer shows rain actually dropped (very minimal) as promised. And when they were about to leave, the dibia told them it would rain heavy and it happened. You are simply clinging on Weather Report Program and dismissing the facts that dibia could control weather with spiritual arts.

Dunce have you gone for your English language lessons yet? Until you have, further conversation with you is pointless.

While you at it, Google how weather predictions are made and what confidence level is.

Hasta la vista dunce.

Amoto94:
The thing is science can't explain everything and scientists themselves know this, when certain things cannot be explained by science due to limitations beyond their comprehension they tend to use carefully worded statements to attribute it to dark matter and energy.

One thing is very clear from your statement. You don't know what dark matter or dark energy is supposed to be. What your post is implying is that everything scientists are ignorant of are just chalked up to dark matter and dark energy. And u are wrong. Very wrong. Very very wrong.
Please read up on the dark matter and dark energy postulates. Dark matter and dark energy is hypothetical for now.

When scientists don't understand something, they clearly state that they don't. And they leave other scientists to find answers to them. That is the whole point of scientific enquiry and research. They don't go about claiming a spirit or God did it. And they certainly do not attribute it to dark matter and energy as u are trying to falsely claim here.

FOLYKAZE:


Madame, for one I no dey argue with women, not even my wife. Women should be cared for and not dragged into endless bloodbath.

FOLYKAZE, please. What are you saying?

In as much as this sentiment amuses me so very much, i'd plead that you do NOT hold back. Give me your best jabs. Hit the nail on the head and face the matter squarely. Do not worry about me.

And why are we arguing? What would argument achieved? What is the purpose of the argument in first place?

One must wonder then, the reason and purpose of your back and forth with the other gents in this thread

There is an event / manifestation. Is the event/manifestation true or false... We can easily make a check
However, we are battling over how to event /manifestation happens.

And what's your take on the bolded? What is YOUR explanation on how these events and/or manifestations happen?

Money miss road be that

Well, we don't eat the same beans...

NPComplete:


One thing is very clear from your statement. You don't know what dark matter or dark energy is supposed to be. What your post is implying is that everything scientists are ignorant of are just chalked up to dark matter and dark energy. And u are wrong. Very wrong. Very very wrong.
Please read up on the dark matter and dark energy postulates. Dark matter and dark energy is hypothetical for now.

When scientists don't understand something, they clearly state that they don't. And they leave other scientists to find answers to them. That is the whole point of scientific enquiry and research. They don't go about claiming a spirit or God did it. And they certainly do not attribute it to dark matter and energy as u are trying to falsely claim here.

Let me agree with you that I exaggerated a bit with my previous post on this thread, but on the other hand science can't explain everything and science will never explain everything. Some from the scientific community want to make us believe that science is the absolute truth which isn't true and when they failed to establish a proof for something using empirical evidences they use convoluted languages to obscure the truth.
For more on visit this http://www.aboutatheism.net/index.cfm and read some of the articles

XxSabrinaxX:

FOLYKAZE, please. What are you saying?

In as much as this sentiment amuses me so very much, i'd plead that you do NOT hold back. Give me your best jabs. Hit the nail on the head and face the matter squarely. Do not worry about me.

Smiles...


Seriously I am not the type. Go and check all my previous posts on this forum, I don't usually engage women.

But well lets see what you got.

XxSabrinaxX:
One must wonder then, the reason and purpose of your back and forth with the other gents in this thread

I am beginning to lose interest in the thread already. Reason is we are just arguing aimlessly.

We are going in circle and its boring

XxSabrinaxX:
And what's your take on the bolded? What is YOUR explanation on how these events and/or manifestations happen?

That thread my dear would take us on an endless long ride.

I could argue it has supernatural cause. That is because no one has provided scientific information to explain how event/manifestation happen.

(event/manifestation here is Osanyin ability to communicate audibly, and Eletu to pick criminal with gunpowder)

XxSabrinaxX:
Well, we don't eat the same beans...

Hahaha

Amoto94:

Let me agree with you that I exaggerated a bit with my previous post on this thread, but on the other hand science can't explain everything and science will never explain everything. Some from the scientific community want to make us believe that science is the absolute truth which isn't true and when they failed to establish a proof for something using empirical evidences they use convoluted languages to obscure the truth.
For more on visit this http://www.aboutatheism.net/index.cfm and read some of the articles

So? How does that indicate spirits or gods exist?

LordReed:


Dunce have you gone for your English language lessons yet? Until you have, further conversation with you is pointless.

While you at it, Google how weather predictions are made and what confidence level is.

Hasta la vista dunce.

Ignored.... I don't have time for the round tripping.


The investigators took their time to locate the dibia in his village. It took them four months t achieve that.

They didn't post on nairaland or bbc that people claim were false or asking dibia to come and meet them in London. They went for what they want and get it.

So Oga, I am tired of the yadayada. If you want to check your facts, go for it.

Goodluck

FOLYKAZE:


Ignored.... I don't have time for the round tripping.


The investigators took their time to locate the dibia in his village. It took them four months t achieve that.

They didn't post on nairaland or bbc that people claim were false or asking dibia to come and meet them in London. They went for what they want and get it.

So Oga, I am tired of the yadayada. If you want to check your facts, go for it.

Goodluck

Goodluck with the English language lessons and the Google search.

Amoto94:

Let me agree with you that I exaggerated a bit with my previous post on this thread, but on the other hand science can't explain everything and science will never explain everything. Some from the scientific community want to make us believe that science is the absolute truth which isn't true and when they failed to establish a proof for something using empirical evidences they use convoluted languages to obscure the truth.
For more on visit this http://www.aboutatheism.net/index.cfm and read some of the articles

I agree with u that there are probably some overzealous people that want to make science the absolute truth but then we can argue that those people do not understand science.
Science is about the continual seeking of knowledge and building knowledge upon knowledge. First we knew about atoms then later we built on that and discovered protons and neutrons and later bosons and fermions. This is incremental knowledge. When science has a better explanation, it jettisons the old explanations. Science isn't religion that assumes absolutism.

Science may have its flaws currently. But it is the best option for enquiry and explanation that we have. Far far better than religious nonsense.

tintingz:
I agree with the dictionary definition reason I presented it.

The point isn't if you agree with the definition, it is if you understand it.

The dividing line between natural and supernatural is scientific understanding.

tintingz:
It's the religious, spiritual people and theists that attributes un-explained phenomena to supernatural, science don't conclude any phenomena to be supernatural or spiritual, instead they say "we don't know yet, study is still ongoing".

Justifying your conclusion with Ignorance is nonsensical.

Science don't say "we don't know yet". They rather deploy some mumbo jumbo called Conjecture and Hypothesis which are mostly are not facts or truth.

Supernatural claims have overtime been authenticated and proven to be truth.

tintingz:
I know herbs are form of classical medicine which evolve to modern medicine. The content of the herbs can be explained scientifically!

So what exactly is your argument here?

Herbs can be scientific. The method of application may not be scientific.

Some herbs are used after series of incantations and rituals. And it works. Does that mean the incantations and other spiritual process is scientific? Or would you argue disease cannot be cured when spiritual use of herbs is involved?

tintingz:
I never said it's a lie, don't say what I didn't say.

What I said is, invite those people with magic to a public forum to display their magic.

No, I don't want to go to any remote area where they have more advantage to do anything.

Ogbeni shut up.

The BBC investigator didnt sit in London headquarter and asked Dibia to come over and make it rain. They went to the remote village of the Dibia...report even shows they have been on search for over four months. And they went there and got their curiosity watered down. Dibia made it rain and proven right.

However, you want to sit in your coven and want magic brought to your doorstep. Isn't that poor thinking?

tintingz:
Herbs are not supernatural, they are medicine!

Method of usage can make it supernatural.

tintingz:
Are you saying the creation story that heaven was close to earth and chicken, corn, sand were use to create the world is big bang?

Metaphor!!!!

A primary school kids don't take tortoise story literally.

Think smart and wide.

tintingz:
Dude!!

And no there was no explosion in big bang just expansion.

A piece for kiddie thinkers like you

A Tiny, Hot Beginning

When the universe began, it was just hot, tiny particles mixed with light and
energy. It was nothing like what we see now. As everything expanded and took up more space, it cooled down.

https://spaceplace.nasa.gov/big-bang/en/

The bible creation story starts with light. Yoruba creation story starts with Light (Obatala is God of light). So is all other culture creation stories. They have knowledge of things before modern science. You are the only one acting dull here.

tintingz:
Are you taking this out of the literal meaning of Ogun?

No, the human skeleton is not metal, we're not like the X-Men wolverine.

What silly question is that? "am I taking Ogun out of literal meaning?" Did I ever told you the story should be taken literally?

That was why fools think disbelieve in the existence of a Man that lives in the sky. Who told you there is a man there?

Aje, money is a god. Do you also take that literally?


And you even said we don't have metal but skeleton.... Do you know what calcium is? And who cares if you are X-men wolverine? My dear you aint smart and think like a dolt.

Calcium is a chemical element with symbol Ca and atomic number 20. As an alkaline earth metal , calcium is a reactive metal that forms a dark oxide-nitride layer when exposed to air. Its physical and chemical properties are most similar to its heavier homologues strontium and barium

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calcium

And maybe you don't know calcium is the building block of bone. 99% of it are found in bone and teeth. Please read https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/248958.php


If science journal could refer to Calcium as metal and a bone building block, and Yoruba spirituality explain Ogun (God of metal) as the moulder of bone, if you can't see the correlation, then you are a dolt and should be ignored.

I am getting sick already with your warped and silly arguments.

tintingz:
Supernatural claims will be objectively true if evidences are provided.

Evidence like a man living in the sky?

Do you have Indomie as brain?

tintingz:
Yes.

Atleast the methods used to arrive at theories still make sense than your supernatural fairytales.

Conjecture and hypothesis are founded on guess and scientific junks. It isn't the fact.

tintingz:
For now the only way to explain the natural world is the scientific methods.

Explain Proton in Yoruba sire.

tintingz:
And NO we are more focus on scientific explanations which can be tested by anyone, we don't take everything from western scholars to be absolute truth.

Scientific explanation on the standard of the west right?

tintingz:
Scientists debate on research.

And spiritualist don't research?

tintingz:
What about story of Poseidon?

Do it yourself. Stop asking me to brainstorm for you.

tintingz:
Lol.

Let them come to a neutral ground.

Yes, when the early scholars started being sceptical about their spirituality.

It is a known fact in scientist community that spirituality is the profound source of science.

Please eat that.

@Folykaze, I am not a Yoruba person and I don't know any history of Yoruba people apart from the ones I got from Atum about three years ago, but I have a little history involving Osanyin and here is it:

Otem Erectus 110: 16-39
16. And Omeyin followed her to Okigun and saw that the herbalist called Awoyele had malnourished his children.
17. For he hid them behind the curtains in his small hut and used them as Osanyins to tell false divinations.
18. And they never come out of the hut to see the sunlight.
19. And Awoyele said, the third child fled, but the other two are no more homos but gods. For they speak the minds of the gods now.
20. And Omeyin said, name the price for me to buy my children back. And Awoyele said, two cows, a tray of kolanuts and two handful of cowries.
21. And Omeyin gave him what he he had requested. And Awoyele said, I have taken all these things from you, but whatever the Osanyins say shall still hold.
22. For they are the voices of the gods.
23. And the voices of the Osanyins behind the curtains said, leave here Omeyin, son of Anate.
24. For the oosa have made us his children. And we are no more your children.
25. And Awoyele said, you have heard what the Osanyins of the gods said. Now depart or else the gods shall strike you with madness.
26. Now when Oyioji the wife of Omeyin heard this, she was very afraid. And she tapped her husband and said, let us go before he harms us.
27. And Omeyin said, no juju can harm a wise homo. Neither is there any juju at all before he who is full of knowledge.
28. For they are nothing but clever tricks. And the most clever shall be the winner.
29. Now Awoyele brought out the scary craftworks of wood and iron and said, flee before the sigidi, for they shall deal with you cruelly.
30. And he began to shake the woroworo in his hands, making incantations along.
31. And the head of Oyioji failed her in the multitude of words spoken by Awoyele and she fainted because of extreme fear.
32. But Omeyin took a cutlass suddenly and set it on the neck of Awoyele, saying, I crafted sigidi myself and I know the secret of Ogun.
33. Now give me my children or I shall rip your head off your body and sacrifice it to Ogun.
34. And the herbalist shook with fear and shouted, come out you osanyin! Come out because Awo is in danger!
35. And the two children of Omeyin came out from the other side of the curtains. And they appeared smaller than how Omeyin had left them, for they had been malnourished.
36. And they had not been exposed to sunlight for three years.
37. And they appeared not to recognise their father even after Awoyele had told them.
38. And Omeyin shook Oyioji his wife back to life. And they departed with the two children.
39. But the third child was nowhere to be found.

FOLYKAZE:
Seriously I am not the type. Go and check all my previous posts on this forum, I don't usually engage women.

Aw don't be so chicken, FOLYKAZE. It's just an argument, not a wrestling bout lol.

I am beginning to lose interest in the thread already.

Reason is we are just arguing aimlessly.

Uncanny observation! Especially from you lol!

That thread my dear would take us on an endless long ride.

It is the cross you and your fellow spiritualists must carry when you can only present long explanations when simple questions are asked! May i suggest Occam's Razor next time?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occam's_razor

It would help shorten your ride and do you a lot of good intellectually

I could argue it has supernatural cause. That is because no one has provided scientific information to explain how event/manifestation happen.

There was a time when thunders and floods had no scientific information to explain them.

Have you ever considered? Has it ever occured to you that there's a possibility that these "supernatural" events/manifestations are simply science we do not yet understand? Isn't tagging an event/manifestation "supernatural" a special pleading fallacy in light of this?

When you are asked a question and you have no idea what the answer is, you can respond in ONE of these ways
a) "I don't know!"
b) "It must be X..."

I know which ONE is more intellectually honest.....

(event/manifestation here is Osanyin ability to communicate audibly, and Eletu to pick criminal with gunpowder)

SMH

If you're honest with yourself, you'll know that the other users have given you logical responses to these phenomena. It is left for you to use your tongue to count teeth and check if none of them are missing.....

Hahaha

Si, Signore. You should try my beans sometime!

XxSabrinaxX:

Aw don't be so chicken, FOLYKAZE. It's just an argument, not a wrestling bout lol.

Either way, It is a win-lose tussle

XxSabrinaxX:
Uncanny observation! Especially from you lol!

Lol

XxSabrinaxX:
It is the cross you and your fellow spiritualists must carry when you can only present long explanations when simple questions are asked! May i suggest Occam's Razor next time?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occam's_razor

It would help shorten your ride and do you a lot of good intellectually

It's tiring when you tend to detail anti-atheists but they keep coming with parallel opinions just to have you shouted down.

XxSabrinaxX:
There was a time when thunders and floods had no scientific information to explain them.

Not to the Yoruba spiritualist. They knew the full understanding of lightening and thunder. And they explained it with Sango. There is a thread by Reyginus where I contributed in it. I tend to decipher the esoteric facts hidden in praises and stories about Sango. I argued Sango is an electric energy. Will provide link later.

XxSabrinaxX:
Have you ever considered? Has it ever occured to you that there's a possibility that these "supernatural" events/manifestations are simply science we do not yet understand? Isn't tagging an event/manifestation "supernatural" a special pleading fallacy in light of this?

I know that is what it is.

What I am advocating for is that instead of throwing all the ancient knowledge into the dustbin, we should workhard and decipher those claims and throw away the false details in it.

A while ago, I found out human evolution in Ifa. Surprised? How can that happen if I had thrown everything away?

A thread by Pastor Aio tried to explain coding, programming and computation in Ifa. It focused primarily on binary coding.

This is shinning of light in the dark.

XxSabrinaxX:
When you are asked a question and you have no idea what the answer is, you can respond in ONE of these ways
a) "I don't know!"
b) "It must be X..."

I know which ONE is more intellectually honest.....

The question on ground bounds on True/false. You are injecting a new thing into it you know.

XxSabrinaxX:
SMH

If you're honest with yourself, you'll know that the other users have given you logical responses to these phenomena. It is left for you to use your tongue to count teeth and check if none of them are missing.....

Who asked for logical responses?

The query is that we can see and check the phenomena. If my claims are true, then we can require logical explanation of to why and how.

XxSabrinaxX:
Si, Signore. You should try my beans sometime!

You are a good cook

FOLYKAZE:


The point isn't if you agree with the definition, it is if you understand it.

The dividing line between natural and supernatural is scientific understanding.

Nope, there's nothing supernatural in this our natural world, every phenomena in this natural world are natural, not understanding something does not equate to "supernatural", you're simply appealing to Ignorance!

Science don't say "we don't know yet". They rather deploy some mumbo jumbo called Conjecture and Hypothesis which are mostly are not facts or truth.

My goodness!

Science use the world "we don't know yet" when something has not yet being understood, the origin of life is an example, science don't actually know the origin of life but the various study and research carried out has provide them some evidences but not sufficient which made it a theory.

You need to understand scientific methods.

Supernatural claims have overtime been authenticated and proven to be truth.

If an acclaimed supernatural can be proven and explain then it's no supernatural.

Supernatural is more like a fantasy claim.

Herbs can be scientific. The method of application may not be scientific.

Again, herbs are classical medicine, it's a form of medicine used in the past, we have evolved to develop modern medicine. The chemicals used for modern medicine didn't fell from the sky.

Some herbs are used after series of incantations and rituals. And it works. Does that mean the incantations and other spiritual process is scientific? Or would you argue disease cannot be cured when spiritual use of herbs is involved?

The incantation does not do the work, it's actually the chemicals in this herbs that do the work.

Do doctors tell you to mention some incantations before taking Aspirin? These medicine works without any incantations or prayers.

All these incantations and rituals are waste of time, they are as results of Ignorance, some are used to extort money from their clients, some to make people believe they have potent powers. Imagine a medical doctor telling you to do some incantations before taking anti-malaria.

Dude reason!!

Ogbeni shut up.

The BBC investigator didnt sit in London headquarter and asked Dibia to come over and make it rain. They went to the remote village of the Dibia...report even shows they have been on search for over four months. And they went there and got their curiosity watered down. Dibia made it rain and proven right.

Who investigated this?

However, you want to sit in your coven and want magic brought to your doorstep. Isn't that poor thinking?

I didnt mention anything like my doorstep.

Tell your magicians to come to a neutral ground and display their powers. Simple.

Method of usage can make it supernatural.

Again, herbs are not supernatural!

Metaphor!!!!

A primary school kids don't take tortoise story literally.

Think smart and wide.

Lol, do ancient Yorubas think the creation story that said chicken, corn and sand were used to create the world is metaphorical? Did you assume this or what?

I think you're ashamed to accept your God literally used chicken, corn and sand to create the world, you find this ridiculous.

Sam Harris in a debate made mention of the problem when people interpret ancient mythologies as metaphors, it looses it honesty, truth and objectivity, it becomes fictions.

A piece for kiddie thinkers like you

Smh

Oga, there's no explosion in the big bang, it's an expansion. I'm yet to see where they said the big bang is an explosion.

The bible creation story starts with light. Yoruba creation story starts with Light (Obatala is God of light). So is all other culture creation stories. They have knowledge of things before modern science. You are the only one acting dull here.

I don't know what has light got to do with the beginning of the universe.

What silly question is that? "am I taking Ogun out of literal meaning?" Did I ever told you the story should be taken literally?

Ogun is god of iron and metal. Simple, stop adding what is not.

That was why fools think disbelieve in the existence of a Man that lives in the sky. Who told you there is a man there?

Olorun is a deity that lives in the sky, the ancient Yorubas sees it that way, they believe God reside in the sky.

Aje, money is a god. Do you also take that literally?

Aje has to do with money and wealth. You're praying to god of wealth.

And you even said we don't have metal but skeleton.... Do you know what calcium is? And who cares if you are X-men wolverine? My dear you aint smart and think like a dolt.

Human skeleton is not metal oga.

Stop twisting what the ancient Yorubas never believed in.

And maybe you don't know calcium is the building block of bone. 99% of it are found in bone and teeth. Please read https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/248958.php

If science journal could refer to Calcium as metal and a bone building block, and Yoruba spirituality explain Ogun (God of metal) as the moulder of bone, if you can't see the correlation, then you are a dolt and should be ignored.

Human skeleton is not metal.

Please mention in details how Ogun mould the human skeleton.

I am getting sick already with your warped and silly arguments.

Lol.

Evidence like a man living in the sky?

Do you have Indomie as brain?



Conjecture and hypothesis are founded on guess and scientific junks. It isn't the fact.



Explain Proton in Yoruba sire.



Scientific explanation on the standard of the west right?



And spiritualist don't research?



Do it yourself. Stop asking me to brainstorm for you.

I cannot be repeating myself again.

It is a known fact in scientist community that spirituality is the profound source of science.

Please eat that.

Lol, and is spirituality used in scientific methods?

FOLYKAZE:


Either way, It is a win-lose tussle

Obviously...

It's tiring when you tend to detail anti-atheists but they keep coming with parallel opinions just to have you shouted down.

The mirror in front of you when you made this statement, how big was it?

Not to the Yoruba spiritualist. They knew the full understanding of lightening and thunder.

Really?

And they explained it with Sango.

[img]https://s2/images/MuttleyHilarious.gif[/img]

There is a thread by Reyginus where I contributed in it. I tend to decipher the esoteric facts hidden in praises and stories about Sango. I argued Sango is an electric energy. Will provide link later.

FOLYKAZE you wouldn't happen, perhaps, to be the type that looks up and down before crossing the street, huh?

Lightning occurs when a charged cloud comes in contact with another charged cloud.. these clouds are charged due to friction IE rubbing together with other clouds. The upper portion of clouds are positively charged & lower portion is negatively charged..when these portions of two clouds come in contact with each other, they discharge creating a bright flash! There's nothing remotely "supernatural" going on here. Tagging a deity as the cause of it is simply committing a fallacy of assumptive thinking and is not scientific in any way.

What I am advocating for is that instead of throwing all the ancient knowledge into the dustbin, we should workhard and decipher those claims and throw away the false details in it.

Any claim with false details is not worth salvaging in my opinion

The question on ground bounds on True/false. You are injecting a new thing into it you know.

Nothing was injected, FOLYKAZE. Obviously you'd know this if you had heeded my advice and asked Occam for his razor!

Who asked for logical responses?

I guess illogical responses would've sufficed?

The query is that we can see and check the phenomena. If my claims are true, then we can require logical explanation of to why and how.

And i'm just trying to find out on which basis you make these claims? That spirit exists?

You are a good cook

How would you know? You could be eating a different beans!

Edit: Happy 666th post to me!

Cc. Budaatum, LordReed, Martinez39, CAPSLOCKED, MJBOLT

XxSabrinaxX:

Obviously...


The mirror in front of you when you made this statement, how big was it?

A very big mirror. That was a typo.

XxSabrinaxX:
Really?

Yes Madame

XxSabrinaxX:
FOLYKAZE you wouldn't happen, perhaps, to be the type that looks up and down before crossing the street, huh?

Sure I will. I know you can potentially eat me raw.

XxSabrinaxX:
Lightning occurs when a charged cloud comes in contact with another charged cloud.. these clouds are charged due to friction IE rubbing together with other clouds. The upper portion of clouds are positively charged & lower portion is negatively charged..when these portions of two clouds come in contact with each other, they discharge creating a bright flash! There's nothing remotely "supernatural" going on here. Tagging a deity as the cause of it is simply committing a fallacy of assumptive thinking and is not scientific in any way.

I made a claim and promised to provide the link so that you can look it up. Save your energy Ma'am.

Most of the thread where I engage Reyginus is lost (no thanks to Seun that doesn't have good backup).

When you study Sango story, praises and Ifa notation about it, you will understand it is simply electrical energy.

Ifa corpus entails history, scientific facts, poem, medicine and lots more. You need to look beyond the religion aspect of it to get the clearer picture.

XxSabrinaxX:
Any claim with false details is not worth salvaging in my opinion

The duty of proving it is false falls on your shoulder Ma'am. Can you bear it?

XxSabrinaxX:
Nothing was injected, FOLYKA. Obviously you'd know this if you had heeded my advice and asked Occam for his razor!

You should please read my words carefully.

My submissions here were from past experiences. You have to experience it too and come to conclusion if my claims are true or false. Afterward, we can raise questions

XxSabrinaxX:
I guess illogical responses would've sufficed?

Either logical or illogical is inconsequential when they haven't examine my claim objectively.

This is why I invited them first...others would follow.

XxSabrinaxX:
And i'm just trying to find out on which basis you make these claims? That spirit exists?

My claims are Osanyin has no audio device and talks audibly...therefore, the voice is from supernatural source. So firstly, you will need to confirm if truly it talks or not. And also find the device installed in it that talks. Then we can argue if the voice is from supernatural source or not. Anything else is a round trip that has no end.

Secondly, Baba Eletu can accurately pick a criminal with gunpowder. Doesn't necessary a criminal, we can innocent give him a trial and see if it works. When it is confirmed, we can then step into explanations for or against science.




Side note... Spirit does exist.

But how would you understand without knowing Naturalistic Pantheism?

XxSabrinaxX:
How would you know? You could be eating a different beans!

Your heart is beautiful. I don't care about taste,enjoy it already

XxSabrinaxX:


Edit: Happy 666th post to me!

You this antichrist of a different beans

LordReed:


Exactly. Our teachers and other staff kept animals so they were constantly moving around the school grounds, sometimes it's a goat bleating or in one bizarre case a dog giving birth. My fellow students would laugh at how scared they were at first till they found out it was just an animal. It was in that school I first experienced sleep paralysis and of course I was told it was "spiritual oppression". I didn't know any better so for a long time I believed that explanation, thank Zeus for Wikipedia that soon opened my eyes to the wider world.

Hail Zeus

hopefulLandlord:


Hail Zeus

Hail the mighty oak!

XxSabrinaxX:

Obviously...


The mirror in front of you when you made this statement, how big was it?


Really?


[img]https://s2/images/MuttleyHilarious.gif[/img]


FOLYKAZE you wouldn't happen, perhaps, to be the type that looks up and down before crossing the street, huh?

Lightning occurs when a charged cloud comes in contact with another charged cloud.. these clouds are charged due to friction IE rubbing together with other clouds. The upper portion of clouds are positively charged & lower portion is negatively charged..when these portions of two clouds come in contact with each other, they discharge creating a bright flash! There's nothing remotely "supernatural" going on here. Tagging a deity as the cause of it is simply committing a fallacy of assumptive thinking and is not scientific in any way.


Any claim with false details is not worth salvaging in my opinion


Nothing was injected, FOLYKAZE. Obviously you'd know this if you had heeded my advice and asked Occam for his razor!


I guess illogical responses would've sufficed?


And i'm just trying to find out on which basis you make these claims? That spirit exists?


How would you know? You could be eating a different beans!

Edit: Happy 666th post to me!

Cc. Budaatum, LordReed, Martinez39, CAPSLOCKED, MJBOLT

Happy 666th post!

Watch the 666 watchers brigade come for us. LoL!

tintingz:
Nope, there's nothing supernatural in this our natural world, every phenomena in this natural world are natural, not understanding something does not equate to "supernatural", you're simply appealing to Ignorance!

You are actually confused...

Firstly, supernatural simply mean event/manifestation that is not of the usual; not natural; altered by forces that are not understood fully if at all.

You also presented a definition which I think you don't understand by yourself. You defined supernatural as event or manifestation attributed to some force beyond scientific understanding or the laws of nature.

This implies that the concept of the supernatural encompasses anything that is inexplicable by scientific understanding of the laws of nature.

So now that you begin to negate your own definition, it means you are not with your senses again.

If everything is natural, I wonder if paranormal is natural too.

tintingz:
My goodness!

Science use the world "we don't know yet" when something has not yet being understood, the origin of life is an example, science don't actually know the origin of life but the various study and research carried out has provide them some evidences but not sufficient which made it a theory.

You need to understand scientific methods.

The embolden is what is called conjecture and hypothesis. It is one of those good smelling horseshiit that are been sold to you. It is not empirical fact and not truth.

tintingz:
If an acclaimed supernatural can be proven and explain then it's no supernatural.

Supernatural is more like a fantasy claim.

Proven in what standard? Scientific research huh?

What about paranormals that cant be proven scientifically? Can such experience be tagged natural in your own world view?

tintingz:
Again, herbs are classical medicine, it's a form of medicine used in the past, we have evolved to develop modern medicine. The chemicals used for modern medicine didn't fell from the sky.

Stop taking me to unnecessary circle.

I am not disputing herbs been medicinal. I am only talking about methods of usage which ain't natural.

Here is a video of an African Priest who performs Brain Surgery with primitive tools, medicine , equipment and WITHOUT Anaesthesia .


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M5TRY1dCzsQ

Did you notice the ritual performed and the concoction given to the man to drink?

What part of those spiritual art is scientific to you?

tintingz:
The incantation does not do the work, it's actually the chemicals in this herbs that do the work.

Do doctors tell you to mention some incantations before taking Aspirin? These medicine works without any incantations or prayers.

All these incantations and rituals are waste of time, they are as results of Ignorance, some are used to extort money from their clients, some to make people believe they have potent powers. Imagine a medical doctor telling you to do some incantations before taking anti-malaria.

You are very poor in reasoning.

Are doctors practising medical science or medical spirituality?

tintingz:
Dude reason!!

Who investigated this?

Your comrades dropped the link.. Check the thread.

tintingz:
I didnt mention anything like my doorstep.

Tell your magicians to come to a neutral ground and display their powers. Simple.

You fail to pick the challenge. Another coward.

tintingz:
Again, herbs are not supernatural!

It is when you can't provide scientific explanation.

Let me hint you. I usually soak garri in lime water and drink it to treat malaria.

What is the chemical contents in that concoction that cures my malaria?

tintingz:
Lol, do ancient Yorubas think the creation story that said chicken, corn and sand were used to create the world is metaphorical? Did you assume this or what?

I think you're ashamed to accept your God literally used chicken, corn and sand to create the world, you find this ridiculous.

Sam Harris in a debate made mention of the problem when people interpret ancient mythologies as metaphors, it looses it honesty, truth and objectivity, it becomes fictions.

You see, western approval. I have been waiting so that you can mention one of your prominent leader and you just did. Because you guys find it hard to make sense on your own without reference to higher authorities in the western world.

This is the Harris that proclaimed his admiration for Buddhism and encourages his people to embrace it. Richard too is sexing up atheism with some pantheism bullshiit. Western atheism taken new dimension while African professed atheists throws away everything in African spirituality. Maybe you are waiting for them to come and approve the philosophy in ATR for you. Your wait likely gonna be forever.

As a Spiritual atheist or naturalistic panthiest, I see God as a natural entity.

There are 401 Gods in Yoruba spirituality and I can relate each and everyone to natural entities.

Only a dunderhead like you is looking for a man living in the sky.

tintingz:
Smh

Oga, there's no explosion in the big bang, it's an expansion. I'm yet to see where they said the big bang is an explosion.

I don't know what has light got to do with the beginning of the universe.

You might take your time and read all over again. Cant afford repeating myself.

tintingz:
Ogun is god of iron and metal. Simple, stop adding what is not.

The last time you saw people worshipping Ogun, did you see a Mystical figure called Ogun that gin and blood is spilled on his head OR you saw pieces of metal?

Why are you so dull?

tintingz:
Olorun is a deity that lives in the sky, the ancient Yorubas sees it that way, they believe God reside in the sky.

Eledumare is even an impersonal God.

Eledumare doesn't even interfare with human... There are deities, kings and leaders who run the affair of the world.

Who prayed to Eledumare? Where did you see that?

Does Eledumare has a dedicated shrine?

Please stop fooling yourself. You know nothing about your culture and heritage. Stick to the jewish nonsense and your western mumbo jumbo.

tintingz:
Aje has to do with money and wealth. You're praying to god of wealth.

And that Aje is what?

A handsome fella, son of Olokun abi?

Or cowries...?

tintingz:
Human skeleton is not metal oga.

Stop twisting what the ancient Yorubas never believed in.

Calcium is metal. Go back to school if you don't know that.

You are probably the one that need to stop believing there is actually a tortoise that can talk and that live with human.

If people see you disputing the wrong essence of tortoise story, when you start disbelieving tortoise talk, people would assume you are mad.

tintingz:
Human skeleton is not metal.

Please mention in details how Ogun mould the human skeleton.

Lol.

Calcium is metal. Deal with your science scholars on that.

tintingz:
Lol, and is spirituality used in scientific methods?

Remember me where Chemistry stem from please.

Folykaze

Baba, you get time. An oldee Awo once told me that everyone can not be 'awake', if that happens, there will be problems. So it is best to let some sheeple remain just that, sheeple.

I have followedthe thread & you have actually tried. In the end to me, these 'ignant' folks have just had you going in a cycle or say, have you on repeat. You may just want to leave them alone, you are not on their plane & you may just want to keep them where they are, below you. Just my suggestion.

What I know is, most of this pseudo-educated people have NEVER in their lives carried out a scientific experiment or observation to prove anything. They just sit on their butt cheeks, scurry the internet to see if the white man has said something then pick it & run with it. They are not independent thinkers. They won't take up your challenge to go out there to observe/test & neither do they have the senses or resources to carry out a test of the scientific nonsense they say. They are just couch potatoes waiting to be fed by the West & think they look 'smart' or 'modern' when they talk. For instance, see one talking about charged cloud like s/he conducted some type of research & came to that conclusion to gleefully regurgutated what the white master said.

In the end, most if not all of them have patronized a magico-spiritual service provider be it an Awo, Pastor or Alfa at one point in life and some still do. So they know what you speak of, they just like to deny like most hypocritical Nigerians.

Awo, what these people do not understand is that, the finest minds who led scientific revolution [and all other endeavours we enjoy today]that set the stage for today's scientific advancements were initiates of esoteric rights. Their achievements in sciences with which they are known today were derived from esotericism. If you can, read Albert Pike & Manly P Halls's works to see renowned scientists [and thinkers] who were Masons & other rights and how their 'crafts' contributed to the knowledges they gave to the public.

Ogbo Ato, Awo.

Ekaaro.

OgboAto:
Folykaze

Baba, you get time. An oldee Awo once told me that everyone can not be 'awake', if that happens, there will be problems. So it is best to let some sheeple remain just that, sheeple.

I have followedthe thread & you have actually tried. In the end to me, these 'ignant' folks have just had you going in a cycle or say, have you on repeat. You may just want to leave them alone, you are not on their plane & you may just want to keep them where they are, below you. Just my suggestion.

What I know is, most of this pseudo-educated people have NEVER in their lives carried out a scientific experiment or observation to prove anything. They just sit on their butt cheeks, scurry the internet to see if the white man has said something then pick it & run with it. They are not independent thinkers. They won't take up your challenge to go out there to observe/test & neither do they have the senses or resources to carry out a test of the scientific nonsense they say. They are just couch potatoes waiting to be fed by the West & think they look 'smart' or 'modern' when they talk. For instance, see one talking about charged cloud like s/he conducted some type of research & came to that conclusion to gleefully regurgutated what the white master said.

In the end, most if not all of them have patronized a magico-spiritual service provider be it an Awo, Pastor or Alfa at one point in life and some still do. So they know what you speak of, they just like to deny like most hypocritical Nigerians.

Awo, what these people do not understand is that, the finest minds who led scientific revolution [and all other endeavours we enjoy today]that set the stage for today's scientific advancements were initiates of esoteric rights. Their achievements in sciences with which they are known today were derived from esotericism. If you can, read Albert Pike & Manly P Halls's works to see renowned scientists [and thinkers] who were Masons & other rights and how their 'crafts' contributed to the knowledges they gave to the public.

Ogbo Ato, Awo.

Ekaaro.

Foolish ignorant nonsense.
So because u know 2 guys who were Masons and scientists then it means scientists need esoteric nonsense to achieve results? It's like saying because I know 2 guys who where Rastafarians then Rastafarianism is needed for scientific achievements. Where do u guys get Ur foolish arguments from?

If it is so, why aren't Ur babalawos achievers? Why are they usually poverty-stricken bastards that work from one bush and hype up their achievements. I am sure Einstein would have been a Mason too according to u. Even atheist scientists have pastronised a spiritualist before. Foolish dumb arguments.

Why don't u use the esoteric knowledge u have and win a Nobel prize? Is it only shouting "Ogbo ato" u know how to do? U think it is by ascribing powers to urself online that we make us take u seriously? Bring proof.

It takes exceptional impotence and low self-esteem to come online and be ascribing great works of other people to a belief u share while u urself are just a husk of a man with no footprint. It is intellectual parasitism.

Anybody using Masons as an argument is an ignorant clown that hardly knows what Masonry is about and what its origins and practices are. Masonry argument is nothing but another appeal to conspiracy theory.

OgboAto:
Folykaze

Baba, you get time. An oldee Awo once told me that everyone can not be 'awake', if that happens, there will be problems. So it is best to let some sheeple remain just that, sheeple.

I have followedthe thread & you have actually tried. In the end to me, these 'ignant' folks have just had you going in a cycle or say, have you on repeat. You may just want to leave them alone, you are not on their plane & you may just want to keep them where they are, below you. Just my suggestion.

What I know is, most of this pseudo-educated people have NEVER in their lives carried out a scientific experiment or observation to prove anything. They just sit on their butt cheeks, scurry the internet to see if the white man has said something then pick it & run with it. They are not independent thinkers. They won't take up your challenge to go out there to observe/test & neither do they have the senses or resources to carry out a test of the scientific nonsense they say. They are just couch potatoes waiting to be fed by the West & think they look 'smart' or 'modern' when they talk. For instance, see one talking about charged cloud like s/he conducted some type of research & came to that conclusion to gleefully regurgutated what the white master said.

In the end, most if not all of them have patronized a magico-spiritual service provider be it an Awo, Pastor or Alfa at one point in life and some still do. So they know what you speak of, they just like to deny like most hypocritical Nigerians.

Awo, what these people do not understand is that, the finest minds who led scientific revolution [and all other endeavours we enjoy today]that set the stage for today's scientific advancements were initiates of esoteric rights. Their achievements in sciences with which they are known today were derived from esotericism. If you can, read Albert Pike & Manly P Halls's works to see renowned scientists [and thinkers] who were Masons & other rights and how their 'crafts' contributed to the knowledges they gave to the public.

Ogbo Ato, Awo.

Ekaaro.

Eji re bi

Awo o ni te, Awo o ni faya

Ke pe o

NPComplete:


Foolish ignorant nonsense.
So because u know 2 guys who were Masons and scientists then it means scientists need esoteric nonsense to achieve results? It's like saying because I know 2 guys who where Rastafarians then Rastafarianism is needed for scientific achievements. Where do u guys get Ur foolish arguments from?

If it is so, why aren't Ur babalawos achievers? Why are they usually poverty-stricken bastards that work from one bush and hype up their achievements. I am sure Einstein would have been a Mason too according to u. Even atheist scientists have pastronised a spiritualist before. Foolish dumb arguments.

Why don't u use the esoteric knowledge u have and win a Nobel prize? Is it only shouting "Ogbo ato" u know how to do? U think it is by ascribing powers to urself online that we make us take u seriously? Bring proof.

It takes exceptional impotence and low self-esteem to come online and be ascribing great works of other people to a belief u share while u urself are just a husk of a man with no footprint. It is intellectual parasitism.

I wonder how many of them genuflect before their electrical outlets or offer sacrifices to it before they plug in their devices. The dolts are even using modern scientifically and technologically procured devices to post their rubbish without thinking of when next they will chant an incantation for the device to work properly and without interruption.

Arrant Nonsense.

LordReed:


I wonder how many of them genuflect before their electrical outlets or offer sacrifices to it before they plug in their devices. The dolts are even using modern scientifically and technologically procured devices to post their rubbish without thinking of when next they will chant an incantation for the device to work properly and without interruption.

Arrant Nonsense.

Lol. The morons will come and tell you that incantations were already made by the people who invented power generation that's why it is working.
The same way they will argue that bridges are only built after sacrificing to Yemoja.

Backwards monkeys.

FOLYKAZE:


You are actually confused...

Firstly, supernatural simply mean event/manifestation that is not of the usual; not natural; altered by forces that are not understood fully if at all.

You also presented a definition which I think you don't understand by yourself. You defined supernatural as event or manifestation attributed to some force beyond scientific understanding or the laws of nature.

This implies that the concept of the supernatural encompasses anything that is inexplicable by scientific understanding of the laws of nature.

So now that you begin to negate your own definition, it means you are not with your senses again.

If everything is natural, I wonder if paranormal is natural too.

Again, people like the theists attributes a manifestation/events to supernatural out of ignorance! They believe since science nor anyone cannot explain an event, they will conclude it must be supernatural, one is "appealing to ignorance" here.

We have given you how lightning and thunder were once seen as supernatural, now we know how they works, the idea of supernatural has diminished here.

Appealing or argument from ignorance is nonsensical, you're simply committing a fallacy.

Paranormal has not been proven, they are all fake and tricks.

The embolden is what is called conjecture and hypothesis. It is one of those good smelling horseshiit that are been sold to you. It is not empirical fact and not truth.

Lol,

There's scientific fact while hypothesis and theories are research that leads to it.

I've told you to go understand scientific methods.

Proven in what standard? Scientific research huh?

What about paranormals that cant be proven scientifically? Can such experience be tagged natural in your own world view?

Paranormal has been proven to be fake and tricks.

No one has been able to demonstrate a real paranormal powers.

There was challenge organized for it.

One Million Dollar Paranormal Challenge
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/One_Million_Dollar_Paranormal_Challenge

Stop taking me to unnecessary circle.

I am not disputing herbs been medicinal. I am only talking about methods of usage which ain't natural.

Here is a video of an African Priest who performs Brain Surgery with primitive tools, medicine , equipment and WITHOUT Anaesthesia .


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M5TRY1dCzsQ

Did you notice the ritual performed and the concoction given to the man to drink?

What part of those spiritual art is scientific to you?

LMAO, you're a clown.

There's nothing spiritual here, they only want you to believe it's spiritual since you're ignorant.

Herbs mixing is medicinal, it's like when you mix chemicals. Many modern medicine are also gotten from plants but you don't see medical doctors attributing it to some mumbo jumbo spirit.

There have been surgeries since the ancient days.

You are very poor in reasoning.

Are doctors practising medical science or medical spirituality?

Medical doctors heal people without attributing it to some mumbo jumbo spirit, they use same source of medicine the traditional doctors use but in advanced form.

Medical doctors know invoking spirits for medical treatment is irrelevant and nonsensical, it's ignorant like you that still believe in this nonsense.

Your comrades dropped the link.. Check the thread.

I've, no investigative report on it.

You fail to pick the challenge. Another coward.

Tell your magicians to come to a neutral ground, we're waiting.

It is when you can't provide scientific explanation.

Let me hint you. I usually soak garri in lime water and drink it to treat malaria.

What is the chemical contents in that concoction that cures my malaria?

Lmao!!!!!

Dude, you're Ignorant. Always appealing to ignorance.

Did you ask anyone in the medical field about this? Ask them they will give you answers if they actually works and the contents in this substance that makes it works.

Oga, there's nothing supernatural here, this is a natural thing. Garri and lime are natural.

You see, western approval. I have been waiting so that you can mention one of your prominent leader and you just did. Because you guys find it hard to make sense on your own without reference to higher authorities in the western world.

This is the Harris that proclaimed his admiration for Buddhism and encourages his people to embrace it. Richard too is sexing up atheism with some pantheism bullshiit. Western atheism taken new dimension while African professed atheists throws away everything in African spirituality. Maybe you are waiting for them to come and approve the philosophy in ATR for you. Your wait likely gonna be forever.

As a Spiritual atheist or naturalistic panthiest, I see God as a natural entity.

This is non-sequitur fallacy.

My premise was about how Sam Harris states the problems of interpreting a story into metaphor, instead of you to counter my premise you're talking about someone admiration for Buddhism and western approval, abeg how do they follow?

Stick to the premise given.

There are 401 Gods in Yoruba spirituality and I can relate each and everyone to natural entities.

Only a dunderhead like you is looking for a man living in the sky.

Abeg what's the meaning of OLORUN?

You might take your time and read all over again. Cant afford repeating myself.

The last time you saw people worshipping Ogun, did you see a Mystical figure called Ogun that gin and blood is spilled on his head OR you saw pieces of metal?

Why are you so dull?

Ogun is the God of iron and metal, Abeg I'm tired of repeating myself.

I've asked you to mention in details how Ogun created the human skeleton.

Eledumare is even an impersonal God.

Eledumare doesn't even interfare with human... There are deities, kings and leaders who run the affair of the world.

Who prayed to Eledumare? Where did you see that?

Does Eledumare has a dedicated shrine?

Please stop fooling yourself. You know nothing about your culture and heritage. Stick to the jewish nonsense and your western mumbo jumbo.

I don't think Eledumare is totally an impersonal God, he has children and grandchildren, he's concern about humans.

And that Aje is what?

A handsome fella, son of Olokun abi?

Or cowries...?

Smh

Calcium is metal. Go back to school if you don't know that.

Ok

You are probably the one that need to stop believing there is actually a tortoise that can talk and that live with human.

If people see you disputing the wrong essence of tortoise story, when you start disbelieving tortoise talk, people would assume you are mad.

So what's the purpose of tortoise talking in a story?

Theists should just accept that their stories in the scriptures are myths and fairytales.

Calcium is metal. Deal with your science scholars on that.

Ok, Ogun is now calcium?

Remember me where Chemistry stem from please.

Oga answer my question, is spirituality used in scientific methods?

To answer your question, it's "alchemy" which was unsuccessful in explaining the nature of matter and transformation, it was not useful, then chemistry came in.

I never disputed the early scholars were spiritual, many were spiritual. Kindly go read my premises again.

The early scholars which were spiritual started being sceptical about their beliefs, they find spirituality not useful they delve into science which works for them.

Apologies for the delay. Lab work can be very stressful & time consuming . Its very early & time will not permit me hence i sieved out the unimportant parts of your post...

By the way, SMH @ you FOLYKAZE. Clearly reason & logic is the Bane of your existence!

FOLYKAZE:

The duty of proving it is false falls on your shoulder Ma'am.

Says who? You?

LOL. You must have me mistaken with yourself!

My submissions here were from past experiences. You have to experience it too and come to conclusion if my claims are true or false. Afterward, we can raise questions

Seeing as I largely don't believe that the supernatural beings you've cited actually exist, why on Earth would I bother with the hassle and expense of coming halfway around the world to "experience what you experienced?"

It's your job to demonstrate that these creatures exist, not ours, and orchestrating a one-on-one exhibition marathon isn't really a scientifically valid way of going about it anyway.

So you see, FOLYKAZE, that you already knew that you weren't going to get what you supposedly need in order to fulfil your end of the challenge. And as I’ve seen in at least one of your comments on another answer, this has allowed you to bring out that sorry, pathetic, dusty, age-old “oh, so you're too chicken to do it then? You must believe at least a tiny little bit if you're too afraid to do what I'm asking!” counter. This is a logical fallacy, and it doesn't help your cause.

So, I can safely dismiss your entire request as being disingenuous. It's a ‘gotcha!’ in disguise!

And based on your exchange with tintingz, It sounds to me that even if your beloved jinns et al did exist, they’ve become irrelevant and impotent in the modern age. You see now, FOLYKAZE, that you are very pious in reasoning, and very susceptible, hence you lack the capacity to be logical at the very least!

I tell you what, FOLYKAZE. If time allows me & you're willing to arrange to travel over to my pub on a set date, I'd be more than willing to investigate your claims. So long as it costs absolutely no effort or money on my end, I don't care what you do. We could have some independent observers come along and witness it too, that way!

My claims are Osanyin has no audio device and talks audibly...therefore, the voice is from supernatural source. [s]So firstly, you will need to confirm if truly it talks or not. And also find the device installed in it that talks. Then we can argue if the voice is from supernatural source or not. Anything else is a round trip that has no end.[/s]

Secondly, Baba Eletu can accurately pick a criminal with gunpowder. [s]Doesn't necessary a criminal, we can innocent give him a trial and see if it works. When it is confirmed, we can then step into explanations for or against science.[/s]

Just because we cant explain how such an event occurred naturally, does not mean that it cant occur naturally. I explained this some time ago here. Can't remember the thread...

When accessing an event as a supernatural occurence, you must first assume that the universe follows some regular order(the natural laws and such)!

There are 3 options to choose from when
accessing an event:
a) you were mistaken in what you saw,
b) you are ignorant of how such an event occurred naturally, or
c) its a suspension of the natural laws (not necessarily supernatural).

a) happens. People
are always mistaken in what they witness. Obviously, watching a talking figurine isn't hard to be mistaken about (seriously, what do you know about sound and sound waves)
b) also happens. We are constantly updating our understanding upon the finding of new evidence and explaining the ones unexplained. General Relativity explained things Newtonian physics could not. However, we have no actual clue whether c) actually happens. Since the universe follows some particular order, and because we know a) and b) happen, it is more reasonable to assume that the universe still follows a particular order and that a) or b) happened. Most likely b) in the cases you gave.

The suspension of the laws of nature is not necessarily supernatural because a supernatural event is caused by the divine. The suspension of the laws could simply be a random event with no connection to some divine intelligence. There is nothing that says the universe must follow these laws, and it could stop doing so.

So in order to prove your claims, FOLYKAZE,
one must prove not only that c) is the most likely answer(good luck with that), and that it was most likely caused by the divine, rather than just a random occurrence. This makes proving the supernatural almost impossible.

PS: Natural Pantheism is bullshit. Nature is nature and electrical energy is electrical energy! Learn how to cook your beans well. No wonder you don't care for taste!