Informer155:


Interesting!.. Allah gave Jesus injeel?OK.when was Jesus given that injeel Empiree?and for what? Where is even the injeel now?....remember that Jesus had lived for 33 years with people on earth before he died! And he was able to talk as early as an infant!..maryam 19:29-32

فَأَشَارَتْ إِلَيْهِ  ۖ قَالُوا كَيْفَ نُكَلِّمُ مَنْ كَانَ فِى الْمَهْدِ صَبِيًّا
"So she pointed to him. They said, How can we speak to one who is in the cradle a child?"

قَالَ إِنِّى عَبْدُ اللَّهِ ءَاتٰىنِىَ الْكِتٰبَ وَجَعَلَنِى نَبِيًّا
"[Jesus] said, Indeed, I am the servant of Allah. He has given me the Scripture and made me a prophet."

وَجَعَلَنِى مُبَارَكًا أَيْنَ مَا كُنْتُ وَأَوْصٰنِى بِالصَّلٰوةِ وَالزَّكٰوةِ مَا دُمْتُ حَيًّا
"And He has made me blessed wherever I am and has enjoined upon me prayer and zakah as long as I remain alive"

وَبَرًّۢا بِوٰلِدَتِى وَلَمْ يَجْعَلْنِى جَبَّارًا شَقِيًّا
"And [made me] dutiful to my mother, and He has not made me a wretched tyrant.".............so tell me more about injeel sir empires!

Look at his(Jesus word) verse 33 " as long as he is alive he remained blessed, prayerful,zakah,and with the scripture (injeel ) given to him.or is it that he forget/didn't use the injeel while living??.... Am just thinking

Informer155:


Look at his(Jesus word) verse 33 " as long as he is alive he remained blessed, prayerful,zakah,and with the scripture (injeel ) given to him.or is it that he forget/didn't use the injeel while living??.... Am just thinking

This is verse 33 of sura Maryam


And peace is on me the day I was born and the day I will die and the day I am raised alive."


must he mention name of his Book?

Empiree:
Whats your question?. Injeel of Jesus was simply his message sent to him by God to preach to the people. That's his Book called Injeel. No evidence of compiled injeel in book form. Once Jesus preached a message, that's gone. Some are written down by his disciples. But all these bibles you see today claiming Mathew, Mark, Luke and John. These 4 writers are not disciples. This is why their account of story of Jesus differ amongst themselves (contradictions).

Quran the other hand captured and preserved Jesus message.

"A message sent by God to preach to people... and his disciples heard it... His disciples wrote down some" interesting...

Jesus was a Jew,preaching to them in their ears the words of injeel......was there a formating of brain of his disciples and the people he preached to after he departed? No!! There must be a record of his birth,death,works,lifstyles,words,teachings etc Even Quran and Jesuses disciples recorded some,who are his disciples that recorded the correct words he had said from injeel Were they buried with the words spoken to them by Jesus(from injeel) or continued to share it after his dead? Empiree?

Informer155:


Look at his(Jesus word) verse 33 " as long as he is alive he remained blessed, prayerful,zakah,and with the scripture (injeel ) given to him.or is it that he forget/didn't use the injeel while living??.... Am just thinking

31 I mean pls

Empiree:
Are you basing validity of stories of religious Books in order of age?. Is this your methodology?. If so it is wrong methodology

. ...


This question need to be answer also Empiree....Question 1

Informer155:


"A message sent by God to preach to people... and his disciples heard it... His disciples wrote down some" interesting...

Jesus was a Jew,preaching to them in their ears the words of injeel......was there a formating of brain of his disciples and the people he preached to after he departed? No!! There must be a record of his birth,death,works,lifstyles,words,teachings etc Even Quran and Jesuses disciples recorded some,who are his disciples that recorded the correct words he had said from injeel Were they buried with the words spoken to them by Jesus(from injeel) or continued to share it after his dead? Empiree?

Remember majority o them dont believe him till this day. SO they rejected him. What do you think they would write about him?



But when Isa perceived unbelief on their part, he said Who will be my helpers in Allah's way? The disciples said: We are helpers (in the way) of Allah: We believe in Allah and bear witness that we are submitting ones. Q3:52


So if today you see a jew who claims to be christian and accept Jesus christ, you better scrutinize him/her very well. He/she has a plan that is neither in favor of christianity and definitely not islam.

Informer155:
Q1


**The stories I read in Quran about Noah,John,Zacharias, Mary,Jesus etc is so unreal,funny and dramatic compared to the BIble.world believed that Bible existed more than 600 years before Quran.so which story should I believe in? Example:
Allah SWT said:

قَالَ رَبِّ اجْعَل لِّىٓ ءَايَةً  ۚ قَالَ ءَايَتُكَ أَلَّا تُكَلِّمَ النَّاسَ ثَلٰثَ لَيَالٍ سَوِيًّا
"[Zechariah] said, My Lord, make for me a sign. He said, Your sign is that you will not speak to the people for three nights, [being] sound."
Maryam 19: 10

"And, behold, thou shalt be dumb, and not able to speak, until the day that these things shall be performed, because thou believest not my words, which shall be fulfilled in their season." Luke1:20

which one is true between the two? and so many other stories

What's your concern here?. Both Quran and Bible verses you quoted actually have some similarities except different wordings. Which means this specific story is true about Zakariya(as).

Note, we use Quran as Divine standard to deduce truth from falsehood from the Bible bcus Bible also has elements of truth in it. But unfortunately, there are lots of fabricated stories in it. This is why we use Quran as the standard. For in stance we read in the Bible where great prophets of God are blasphemed. We reject such nonsense.

Empiree:
Remember majority o them dont believe him till this day. SO they rejected him. What do you think they would write about him?



But when Isa perceived unbelief on their part, he said Who will be my helpers in Allah's way? The disciples said: We are helpers (in the way) of Allah: We believe in Allah and bear witness that we are submitting ones. Q3:52


So if today you see a jew who claims to be christian and accept Jesus christ, you better scrutinize him/her very well. He/she has a plan that is neither in favor of christianity and definitely not islam.

But his disciples believed him na? And recorded his injeel teachings na.....or when he died his disciples too died all without doing anything.... Check history no man ever lived that his family and friends don't know about him well....if not all his lifestyle at least the key words he spoke will be remembered by his disciples na....

And concerning Jew...lol we have millions of Jew Christian that lived,died, and some still alive preaching Jesus.we also have Muslim Jews... So what are you saying? If Jew accept Islam u won't ....I know maryam as a Jew so at least if all Jew hate him she won't do that right.....I know paul the convert etc

Let me show you something Empiree....see what your brothers say about injeel to me.if I lied "search it in my THREAD of " my confused question about islam''.......

See the screenshot sir...down

Informer155:


But his disciples believed him na? And recorded his injeel teachings na.....or when he died his disciples too died all without doing anything....

I said that not all of them. Many of them rejected him save few. Read my subsequent post above. Those who believed him sincerely, what they wrote in truth are the remnants truths you found in the Bible today. But majority of the stories are either dilluted or outright false

Check history no man ever lived that his family and friends don't know about him well....if not all his lifestyle at least the key words he spoke will be remembered by his disciples na....

why then modern Bibles have conflicting narrations about Jesus and many other events?.

For instance, if you ask 10 CHRISTIANs who is Jesus?. You will get different answers. Why is that?. Because they have different accounts of Jesus identity. Understand?.

And concerning Jew...lol we have millions of Jew Christian that lived,died, and some still alive preaching Jesus.we also have Muslim Jews... So what are you saying? If Jew accept Islam u won't ....I know maryam as a Jew so at least if all Jew hate him she won't do that right.....I know paul the convert etc

sorry, Paul was not Jesus disciple. He came much later after Jesus and he was the founder of CHRISTIANITY

Rashduct4luv said...this sir

Informer155:
Rashduct4luv said...this sir

so what's the difference from what I said?. Just bcus he said it is lost?. Yes, that's what we say generally. It is lost bcuz Jesus original message is lost

Abdulhakeem44 said...

^^^

So what's your point?. All of us are saying the same thing. He's right. Read pictures I posted above earlier and see dates those Bibles were written

Empiree said

My point is this...
1-one said the book given to him is lost(was it a written form)
2-one said the injeel (scripture was distorted lol).was it a book written and was distorted or what?)
3-empiree said....once Jesus spoke a word that's gone.and the injeel(scripture is never compiled)
The dicples just recorded some injeel words...



Was the injeel a book,spirit, head knowledge, or something I can't understand

Where is/was the recorded words/deeds of Jesus if at all there was a record?

Informer155:
My point is this...
1-one said the book given to him is lost(was it a written form)
2-one said the injeel (scripture was distorted lol).was it a book written and was distorted or what?)
3-empi.ree said....once Jesus spoke a word that's gone.and the injeel(scripture is never compiled)
The dicples just recorded some injeel words...



Was the injeel a book,spirit, head knowledge, or something I can't understand

Where is/was the recorded words/deeds of Jesus if at all there was a record?

I seen your confusion.

Let me tell you what you don't understand. God doesn't have language. He communicated with us in a language we can understand. Quran used "message" and "Book" to describe mission of Prophets and messangers. Also Quran uses the word "Book" to describe Divine scriptures revealed on tablets (Lauh Al-Mahfuz).

So if God speaks of Book doesn't mean injeel (in book form) dropped from the sky. Rather it is the message itself that were later coverted to written form. So bottom line is, true message of Jesus was lost. Whether you call it book or message, it is lost. It is true that desciples must have written some infos about Jesus and his mission. Some of the truth of what they wrote down is what we found today in the Bible.

What is clear is that Bible today is not injeel. If you think it is, then onus is on you to provide evidence that Jesus wrote and compiled them.

Jesus did not write anything down. What we have evidence for is here was sent with message.

Empiree:
I seen your confusion.

Let me tell you what you don't understand. God doesn't have language. He communicated with us in a language we can understand. Quran used "message" and "Book" to describe mission of Prophets and messangers. Also Quran uses the word "Book" to describe Divine scriptures revealed on tablets (Lauh Al-Mahfuz).

So if God speaks of Book doesn't mean injeel (in book form) dropped from the sky. Rather it is the message itself that were later coverted to written form. So bottom line is, true message of Jesus was lost. Whether you call it book or message, it is lost. It is true that desciples must have written some infos about Jesus and his mission. Some of the truth of what they wrote down is what we found today in the Bible.

What is clear is that Bible today is not injeel. If you think it is, then onus is on you to provide evidence that Jesus wrote and compiled them.

Jesus did not write anything down. What we have evidence for is here was sent with message.

OK..these are the facts then!!
1-God(Allah) gave Jesus scriptures (injeel) to preach it to mankind. They are all the words of Allah sent from him.lets read....
"He said, Thus [it will be]; your Lord says, 'It is easy for Me, and We will make him a sign to the people and a mercy from Us. And it is a matter [already] decreed.' " maryam 19:21

This messages, book,injeel,scripturres was preached to Israelites. The disciples of Jesus heard it and recorded SOME OF THE WORDS.Jesus talk as an infant and died at 33.he lived among thousands of people,healed and taught them the truth of injeel(scriptures).risen from dead and he is coming again.He is the word of God and the spirit of God.

And Allah now send somebody (Mohammed)peace be upon him 600 years after Jesus have preached injeel(scripture of Allah) to the world. With a different teaching and corrections of what happened before his birth even correcting the stories and words of his ancestors (for Allah gave it to him).

Now someone WAKEUP and say all the injeel IS LOST!!!!!!! No record, only some RECORDS,recorded by Jesus dicples (JESUS FOLLOWER'S) who have no brain to share,practice or think about his teaching 33/years on earth

Thank you Muslims for such great revelation.

2- I have some of Jesus words recorded by his disciples to share with you if you want to hear some of the remaining injeel(scripture) Jesus talked about for Allah gave him.if you don't want peace be upon you brothers......read Qur'an, read Bible (new testament) and compare

We have done justice to the second question.NOW I UNDERSTOOD what injeel(scripture from Allah is)
Thank you...let him that have EARS HEAR WHAT empiree and informer155 have discussed!! I love you all
ONE NIGERIA, ONE GOD,ONE LOVE!!!


Back to Q 1

Informer155:
2- I have some of Jesus words recorded by his disciples to share with you.

Share please.

Informer155:



Now someone WAKEUP and say all the injeel IS LOST!!!!!!! No record, only some RECORDS,recorded by Jesus dicples (JESUS FOLLOWER'S) who have no brain to share,practice or think about his teaching 33/years on earth

Thank you Muslims for such great revelation.

you don't need to rush to conclusions and condemn muslims. The truth is glaring and this is how you know Jesus teaching is almost non-existent amongst CHRISTIANs and Jews.


Ask 10 CHRISTIANs if Jesus is God and wait for their answers. If their responses collaborate then, they have true message of Jesus. If however they give you conflicting responses like some say Jesus is God. Others say, no he's not God but son of God. Another set of Christians say Jesus is both God and son at the same time.

Then, you should ask yourself what exactly Jesus disciples wrote down about Jesus?. It is a matter of sincerity on your part. Islam however is very clear about Jesus. You will never get conflicting reports about who Jesus is.

So I am giving you this assignment to do your research. Your logic is Quran came much later which means it could not have corrected Bible. The question then comes, which one of the many Bibles Jesus preached?. Again, it is about sincerity in your part to inquire critically.

Empiree:
you don't need to rush to conclusions and condemn muslims. The truth is glaring and this is how you know Jesus teaching is almost non-existent amongst CHRISTIANs and Jews.


Ask 10 CHRISTIANs if Jesus is God and wait for their answers. If their responses collaborate then, they have true message of Jesus. If however they give you conflicting responses like some say Jesus is God. Others say, no he's not God but son of God. Another set of Christians say Jesus is both God and son at the same time.

Then, you should ask yourself what exactly Jesus disciples wrote down about Jesus?. It is a matter of sincerity on your part. Islam however is very clear about Jesus. You will never get conflicting reports about who Jesus is.

So I am giving you this assignment to do your research. Your logic is Quran came much later which means it could not have corrected Bible. The question then comes, which one of the many Bibles Jesus preached?. Again, it is about sincerity in your part to inquire critically.

OK my dear empiree I try to do your assignment, and I must acknowledged your peace and understanding. Can we go to the next question sir? I think we've done justice to that already.

Informer155:
2- I have some of Jesus words recorded by his disciples to share with you if you want to hear some of the remaining injeel(scripture) Jesus talked about for Allah gave him.

kindly share with us. Let's see

By the way, who is Jesus according to your understanding?

Informer155:


OK my dear empiree I try to do your assignment, and I must acknowledged your peace and understanding. Can we go to the next question sir? I think we've done justice to that already.

Yes, bring it on, sir.

Empiree:
The question then comes, which one of the many Bibles Jesus preached?

Jesus preached the Bible as extant when he preached it, so his followers preach all scripture even after him. He did say we are [url=https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke+6%3A1-5&version=NIV]not subject[/url] to the words in a book, and in as much as one loves one's fellow human being, God in [url=https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+25%3A40&version=KJV]heaven[/url] is pleased and every word too, but I guess even one book is big enough for some so they engage in a battle of understanding with no knowledge in their heads while missing the fact that both books are for gaining wisdom.

Q1


**The stories I read in Quran about the prophets(thousands years before prophet Mohammad) e.g Noah,John,Zacharias, Mary,Jesus ,Abraham etc are far DIFFERENT compared to the ones in the Bible.

Example: the birth of JOHN

قَالَ رَبِّ اجْعَل لِّىٓ ءَايَةً  ۚ قَالَ ءَايَتُكَ أَلَّا تُكَلِّمَ النَّاسَ ثَلٰثَ لَيَالٍ سَوِيًّا
"[Zechariah] said, My Lord, make for me a sign. He said, Your sign is that you will not speak to the people for three nights, [being] sound."
Maryam 19: 10

"And, behold, thou shalt be dumb, and not able to speak, until the day that these things shall be performed, because thou believest not my words, which shall be fulfilled in their season." Luke1:20

*The birth of Jesus*

MARYAM 19:22-30

فَحَمَلَتْهُ فَانْتَبَذَتْ بِهِۦ مَكَانًا قَصِيًّا
"So she conceived him, and she withdrew with him to a remote place.

فَأَجَآءَهَا الْمَخَاضُ إِلٰى جِذْعِ النَّخْلَةِ قَالَتْ يٰلَيْتَنِى مِتُّ قَبْلَ هٰذَا وَكُنْتُ نَسْيًا مَّنْسِيًّا
"And the pains of childbirth drove her to the trunk of a palm tree. She said, Oh, I wish I had died before this and was in oblivion, forgotten.
"But he called her from below her, Do not grieve; your Lord has provided beneath you a stream.
"And shake toward you the trunk of the palm tree; it will drop upon you ripe, fresh dates.
"So eat and drink and be contented. And if you see from among humanity anyone, say, 'Indeed, I have vowed to the Most Merciful abstention, so I will not speak today to [any] man.
"Then she brought him to her people, carrying him. They said, O Mary, you have certainly done a thing unprecedented.
"O sister of Aaron, your father was not a man of evil, nor was your mother unchaste.
"So she pointed to him. They said, How can we speak to one who is in the cradle a child?
"[Jesus] said, Indeed, I am the servant of Allah. He has given me the Scripture and made me a prophet."

LUKE 2:1-18

And it came to pass in those days, that there went out a decree from Cæsar Augustus, that all the world should be taxed. ( And this taxing was first made when Cyrenius was governor of Syria.) And all went to be taxed, every one into his own city. And Joseph also went up from Galilee, out of the city of Nazareth, into Judaea, unto the city of David, which is called Bethlehem; (because he was of the house and lineage of David To be taxed with Mary his espoused wife, being great with child. And so it was, that, while they were there, the days were accomplished that she should be delivered. And she brought forth her firstborn son, and wrapped him in swaddling clothes, and laid him in a manger; because there was no room for them in the inn. [8] And there were in the same country shepherds abiding in the field, keeping watch over their flock by night. And, lo, the angel of the Lord came upon them, and the glory of the Lord shone round about them: and they were sore afraid. And the angel said unto them, Fear not: for, behold, I bring you good tidings of great joy, which shall be to all people. For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Saviour, which is Christ the Lord. And this shall be a sign unto you; Ye shall find the babe wrapped in swaddling clothes, lying in a manger. And suddenly there was with the angel a multitude of the heavenly host praising God, and saying, Glory to God in the highest, and on earth peace, good will toward men. And it came to pass, as the angels were gone away from them into heaven, the shepherds said one to another, Let us now go even unto Bethlehem, and see this thing which is come to pass, which the Lord hath made known unto us.And they came with haste, and found Mary, and Joseph, and the babe lying in a manger. And when they had seen it , they made known abroad the saying which was told them concerning this child.

This are some of the few example of the stories I read in Bible and Qur'an about the birth of Jesus and John

My questions is this;which of these stories are true the one in Quran or Bible? Am so confused....... Empiree.

Informer155:

My questions is this;which of these stories are true the one in Quran or Bible? Am so confused........

The answer is, neither, literally, spiritually, both. For they both have their underlying message, the what they imply. But as I said, you seek that which to believe.

I wonder how you contend with contradictions in the Bible. They are there to teach one to overcome this error of literalism of yours. Can't you see in Spirit?

Budaatum said "The answer is, neither, literally, spiritually, both. For they bith have their underlying message, the what they imply. But as I said, you seek that which to believe. ""


What are you saying sir.NEITHER, LITERALLY, SPIRITUALLY, BOTH? shed more light

You mean I should not believe even the ones in the Qur'an?(a preserved, Holy Qur'an of Allah,sent from heaven in mecca)....one version for ages?

How do you men sir? Budatan

Informer155:
Budaatum said "The answer is, neither, literally, spiritually, both. For they bith have their underlying message, the what they imply. But as I said, you seek that which to believe. ""


What are you saying sir.NEITHER, LITERALLY, SPIRITUALLY, BOTH? shed more light

You mean I should not believe even the ones in the Qur'an?(a preserved, Holy Qur'an of Allah,sent from heaven in mecca)....one version for ages?

How do you men sir? Budatan

Neither of the narratives is literally true. No one was born by a virgin nor do they speak when born. Yet, spiritually, both are true as they both convey the relevance and importance of Jesus. Just think, since your claim would be someone wrote the latter, they could have claimed the Prophet was born of a virgin and he spoke as soon as he was born.

The stories are not there for you to just believe, but for you to gain an understanding from.

Informer155:
Q1


*

My questions is this;which of these stories are true the one in Quran or Bible? Am so confused....... Empi.ree.

First all, the story around Joseph and Mary is irrelevant in Islam whether it is true or not. That's not what God wanted to work on. God's mission was to send messanger(Jesus) to the children of Israel to guide them to the truth.

As you can see from the verses of Qur'an you quoted, John and Jesus identity are very clear. But look into Bible verse you quoted. It is one of the many confusions in christiandome.

Example:


For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Saviour, which is Christ the Lord.


Look at this Bible passage very well. It calls Jesus Savior with capital S. It goes further to call Jesus Lord with capital L. These are the reasons CHRISTIANs can not truly figure out identity of Jesus. A verse like this is quoted by Christians as evidence of Divinity (God) of Jesus. So confusion sets in for them. Let me give you second assignment.

Kindly show this verse and ask as many different CHRISTIANs as you possibly can what the verse means. I can guarantee you that some will use this verse as evidence that Jesus is God and Son of God. And some CHRISTIANs will also disagree. If that happens do you still think true disciples of Jesus wrote Bible?. This is your assignment. God is not author of confusion

Oh my God! so interesting!!!

Is what you say about the holy Qur'an? Empiree.

that The words/stories inside are inrelevant to your faith ?
Who even put it there sef prophet Mohammad, Allah,Maryam,Jesus or whoooooooo!!!?


So painful that my battery is down sir 1%...,good nite see u 2moro....to be continued

Informer155:
Oh my God! so interesting!!!

Is what you say about the holy Qur'an? Emp.iree.

that The words/stories inside are inrelevant to your faith ?
Who even put it there sef prophet Mohammad, Allah,Maryam,Jesus or whoooooooo!!!?


So painful that my battery is down sir 1%...,good nite see u 2moro....to be continued

I am sorry your battery is down. I don't know what you meant by @underlined. I was referring to story in the Bible verses you quoted in Luke. That's what I said is not relevant to us in Islam. Read my post carefully again please.