fortran12:

I have read the Quran very well, I did not say Jesus is Greek , I said the translation of his name in Greek, I know Jesus was born in the middle east and not Europe. The Quran has several text like that of Alexander the great who the quran claim he was a muslim and allah saying he found the setting place of the sun (Quran: ( 18:86 ) and mohammed collaborating allah's story that the sun sets in a pool of muddy water.
What type of god thinks the sun has a setting place.
Or the Quran telling us that Mary the mother of Jesus is the sister of Aaron or Samaritans in the time of Moses even though they did not exist historically at that time, or Solomon and his magic ring a story from Arabian legends that existed in the time of Mohammed.
The quran is not original, its a badly copied text from several sources, but why won't it be when the one author ibn warqa was old and had poor eye sight and the other Mohammed a semi illiterate man.

Even sef, the Quran is incomplete as a sheep ate some pages that was kept under the bed at Mohammed's. The verse for stoning and breastfeeding for adults was eaten by this sheep.

smh, i wil l soon have your time.

najib632:
smh, i wil l soon have your time.

Rashduct4luv:

I don't how an unlettered man can plagiarise books revealed over thousands of years. Then restructure it to conform to his own narrative in 23years? Impossible!
Injeel is the name of the Book revealed to 'Eesa the Arabicised name for Jesus.
Na Jesus-'Eesa and Injil translation dey give you headache from the post?

Must he be the one to plagiarise or document it
Does Muhammad not have secretaries and servants then
Or are you dumb ?

Rashduct4luv:


And it was you after over 1441 years that could detect the deceit right? The Qur'an is to be the final revelation after the revealed Book to Jesus.
So why should it be different since it confirmed the previous scriptures?
.
If the Prophet had wanted to gain favour from them he would have joined them in what they do.
.
Lakum deenukum waliyadin

Which yeye book was revealed to Jesus

true2god:
The issue the quran has is that every Dick and Harry in the Jewish and Christian scripture is a prophet. Islam called Adam a prophet without him making a single prophecy. The quran called Lot a prophet without Lot giving a single prophesy, etc. For the fact that a name appears in the Bible does not make him/her a prophet.

You muslims condemned biblical detailed narratives concerning Lot, Noah, Solomon, Abraham, Moses, Jesus etc but the quran has no single narrative on any of these people. If a writer writes about how his father was born, where he was born, who have birth to his father, where his father grew up, the job his father did in his youthful age, how he good drunk at a time, and how he later beat and divorced his wife. And another writer, 70 years later, came and disregard all what he wrote by simply saying 'the man never drink for once', does that makes sense to you? This is the exact position the quran takes when it comes to the bible. The Bible gives a detailed analysis of events while the quran, poorly written and disorganized, will simply say 'the never killed him, it was meant to appear so' (FULL STOP). This is a nonsensical and illogical way of making a logical argument which the quran is notorious for.

I will analyse the points you made one by one when I am free.

Do not use the Christians standard of prophethood for Islam. Prophet in Islam doesn't necessarily mean someone who prophecy. There are many people today who called themselves prophet of God in the name of prophecy whereas in Islam, prophethood ends with the death of Prophet Muhammad. We can have preachers those who propagate the teachings of Islam, not prophets. But as per Christianity ideology, there are many prophets nowadays, I hope you can see that your standards for measuring prophethood is quite different from Islam. If Islam says they are prophet, yes they are cos we don't use ur standards for prophethood. Thank you.

true2god:
The issue the quran has is that every Dick and Harry in the Jewish and Christian scripture is a prophet. Islam called Adam a prophet without him making a single prophecy. The quran called Lot a prophet without Lot giving a single prophesy, etc. For the fact that a name appears in the Bible does not make him/her a prophet.

You muslims condemned biblical detailed narratives concerning Lot, Noah, Solomon, Abraham, Moses, Jesus etc but the quran has no single narrative on any of these people. If a writer writes about how his father was born, where he was born, who have birth to his father, where his father grew up, the job his father did in his youthful age, how he good drunk at a time, and how he later beat and divorced his wife. And another writer, 70 years later, came and disregard all what he wrote by simply saying 'the man never drink for once', does that makes sense to you? This is the exact position the quran takes when it comes to the bible. The Bible gives a detailed analysis of events while the quran, poorly written and disorganized, will simply say 'the never killed him, it was meant to appear so' (FULL STOP). This is a nonsensical and illogical way of making a logical argument which the quran is notorious for.

I will analyse the points you made one by one when I am free.

Also your point of believing those who wrote about Jesus and his life and a prophet who came 600 year after debunking the history narratives, yes, because the creator of these prophets revealed to the last messenger the truth and undiluted story. There are lots of contradictions in the bible itself which shows that people were just narrating what they know or heard, whereas it was a revelation to Prophet Muhammad from ALLāh the most high, hope u can see the difference.,

OLUWABIG:


Which yeye book was revealed to Jesus

It's not a yeye book. Please learn curtsey! It's called Injeel.

OLUWABIG:


Must he be the one to plagiarise or document it
Does Muhammad not have secretaries and servants then
Or are you dumb ?

Why not mention the names of those that plagiarised for him with the necessary references? If you can't find that then you must be the dumbest ignoramus around.

Rashduct4luv:


It's not a yeye book. Please learn curtsey! It's called Injeel.

No body revealed anything to Jesus I don't know where you got your own from

Jesus himself is the Good news they were waiting for then

OLUWABIG:

No body revealed anything to Jesus I don't know where you got your own from

Jesus himself is the Good news they were waiting for then

OK, no book for your Jesus. Our own Jesus get book. I forgot say na Matthew, mark, Luke, John and Paul books you get.

Rashduct4luv:


OK, no book for your Jesus. Our own Jesus get book. I forgot say na Matthew, mark, Luke, John and Paul books you get.

when did Jesus become a writer ?

OLUWABIG:


when did Jesus become a writer ?

Who said Jesus wrote the Book? It was revealed just like the Tawrah was revealed to Moses.
.
You're mistaken.

AbdulHakeem44:


Do not use the Christians standard of prophethood for Islam. Prophet in Islam doesn't necessarily mean someone who prophecy. There are many people today who called themselves prophet of God in the name of prophecy whereas in Islam, prophethood ends with the death of Prophet Muhammad. We can have preachers those who propagate the teachings of Islam, not prophets. But as per Christianity ideology, there are many prophets nowadays, I hope you can see that your standards for measuring prophethood is quite different from Islam. If Islam says they are prophet, yes they are cos we don't use ur standards for prophethood. Thank you.

If you appropriate some characters and claim exclusive right to them then the people (whose ancestors are the prophets) will appraise you on how you view those characters. If a Yorubaman said his ancestor, Chief Obafemi Awolowo, was a politician and a Ghanaian, after 100 years, wrote a short essay on chief Obafemi Awolowo and claimed he was a doctor, Yoruba people has the right to tell the Ghanaian man he is wrong.

All the prophets, except Mohammed, were characters in Jewish and Christian religion and they didnt identify Lot, Adam and Noah as a prophet. If Islam, which came last, claimed they are also prophets then you should explain what and what make them prophets. The prophecies they made and who they prophesied on or to. Adam is regarded as the first man in all the 3 major religions but only Islam regarded him as a prophet. Who did he prophesied to and what did he prophesied on? You cannot make a blanket statement and expect the people to 'figure it out'. Maybe you are parroting the same narrative because Muhammad called them 'proohets' and you don't want to take a position contrary to your prophet, however Mohammed asked Muslims to consult the people of the book to get a better understanding of whatever he says or teaches but unfortunately 99% of Muslims failed to adhere to this instruction.

AbdulHakeem44:


Also your point of believing those who wrote about Jesus and his life and a prophet who came 600 year after debunking the history narratives, yes, because the creator of these prophets revealed to the last messenger the truth and undiluted story. There are lots of contradictions in the bible itself which shows that people were just narrating what they know or heard, whereas it was a revelation to Prophet Muhammad from ALLāh the most high, hope u can see the difference.,

Your claim is subjective and based on Islamic bias. Can you show me, in the Quran, where Allah said Mohammed is the last messenger?

Christians claim there are contradiction in the Quran and the Muslims also claim there are contradictions in the Bible, that's fair enough but this is not the bone of contention now. The argument here is the characters associated with biblical prophets which Islam deny because, to Muslims, God's prophet can never fall into grave errors, but the Quran has no detailed information about the biblical prophets. And Mohammed asked Muslims to consult the people of the book for further clarification on theological issues. Now tell me, why did Mohammed ask Muslims to consult the people of the book to confirm if what he said was true or false? This is because he understood that the people of the book has the torah and the injil upon which Mohammed's 'revelation' can either be validated or invalidated by the meccan pagans. Mohammed didn't ask the arab Muslims or/pagan to consult the sabians or the Hindus.

true2god:
If you appropriate some characters and claim exclusive right to them then the people (whose ancestors are the prophets) will appraise you on how you view those characters. If a Yorubaman said his ancestor, Chief Obafemi Awolowo, was a politician and a Ghanaian, after 100 years, wrote a short essay on chief Obafemi Awolowo and claimed he was a doctor, Yoruba people has the right to tell the Ghanaian man he is wrong.

All the prophets, except Mohammed, were characters in Jewish and Christian religion and they didnt identify Lot, Adam and Noah as a prophet. If Islam, which came last, claimed they are also prophets then you should explain what and what make them prophets. The prophecies they made and who they prophesied on or to. Adam is regarded as the first man in all the 3 major religions but only Islam regarded him as a prophet. Who did he prophesied to and what did he prophesied on? You cannot make a blanket statement and expect the people to 'figure it out'. Maybe you are parroting the same narrative because Muhammad called them 'proohets' and you don't want to take a position contrary to your prophet, however Mohammed asked Muslims to consult the people of the book to get a better understanding of whatever he says or teaches but unfortunately 99% of Muslims failed to adhere to this instruction.

What you have written is a repetition of what I am refuting. You claim Adam isn't prophet because Christianity and Judaism doesn't carry them so, you also buttress your point that they didn't prophecy to anyone. Those characteristics may be a yardstick for being a prophet in Christianity but not Islam. Seems you don't understand my point. We don't need a Christian Bible to tell us who a prophet is in Islam, we don't need the religion of Judaism to tell us who a prophet is in Islam. Islam as a religion believe in the previous prophets and ALLāh mentioned them in the Quran and we Muslims belief without an iota of doubt.

The major problem here is that the non Muslims do not believe in the prophethood of Muhammad in the first place, so why would they believe the Quran if Quran calls Adam a prophet. I hope you get my point. That the Christian don't call a particular person prophet doesn't mean Islam has to follow suite all in the name of one came first. Haba, it is very easy to understand na, Christian says Jesus is God and they worship, the same Jesus muslims believe is a prophet And messenger of ALLāh, hope u get the logic. So Christianity doesn't characterize a prophet for Islam. Islam believes in those who were called prophet by ALLāh and His messenger.

As for the Quran verses you quoted where ALLāh ask the prophet to ask the people of the book, it wasn't the book that has Ben distorted ALLāh was referring to, it was the original testament given to the prophet. So do not get confused.



Secondly, I could have messaged this differently but i choose to write it here, concerning the analogy you wrote about Ghanaians calling awolowo something what the Yoruba (who owned him) never called him. Lol, I will like to counter that with this analogy of mine as well, Yoruba see Oduduwa as their father, someone divine and they hold him of high esteem, but to an Arab where he came from (either Saudi or egypt: since historians are not sure) , he is just a common man. Can you see? Imagine a Yoruba man and an Arab man now arguing about the personality of oduduwa, you can't expect them to be the same!!! As simple as that!!!!!

AbdulHakeem44:
What you have written is a repetition of what I am refuting. You claim Adam isn't prophet because Christianity and Judaism doesn't carry them so, you also buttress your point that they didn't prophecy to anyone. Those characteristics may be a yardstick for being a prophet in Christianity but not Islam. Seems you don't understand my point. We don't need a Christian Bible to tell us who a prophet is in Islam, we don't need the religion of Judaism to tell us who a prophet is in Islam. Islam as a religion believe in the previous prophets and ALLāh mentioned them in the Quran and we Muslims belief without an iota of doubt.

Muslims claim Islam is the continuation of the Abrahamic faith (the first two were assumed corrupt according to islam), and equally claimed to accept all prophets attributable to christianity and Judaism (muslims have no prophets attributable to hunduism or budism). The issue is that Islam has not provided the criteria for ascribing prophethood to anyone except lifting almost all Old testamant bible characters as prophets. What are the criteria for prophethood in Islam?

AbdulHakeem44:
The major problem here is that the non Muslims do not believe in the prophethood of Muhammad in the first place, so why would they believe the Quran if Quran calls Adam a prophet. I hope you get my point. That the Christian don't call a particular person prophet doesn't mean Islam has to follow suite all in the name of one came first. Haba, it is very easy to understand na, Christian says Jesus is God and they worship, the same Jesus muslims believe is a prophet And messenger of ALLāh, hope u get the logic. So Christianity doesn't characterize a prophet for Islam. Islam believes in those who were called prophet by ALLāh and His messenger.

You are gradually shifting the dicsussion to the Trinity, the best and sweetest Islamic debate topic. We are discussing the characters of some prophets attributable to Judaism and christiniaty but unacceptable to the ummah. Yes, mohammed did not fulfil the requirement for the office of prophethood that is why the Jews and the christians in medina rejected him, the same reason the christians today is rejecting him.

AbdulHakeem44:
As for the Quran verses you quoted where ALLāh ask the prophet to ask the people of the book, it wasn't the book that has Ben distorted ALLāh was referring to, it was the original testament given to the prophet. So do not get confused.

I will be glad if you can provide the ORIGINAL torah and the injil to at least put all christians to shame. Allah said his words can not be distorted (Surah 6:115 and 18:27), do the words of allah include the torah and the injil of mohammed's era?

AbdulHakeem44:
Secondly, I could have messaged this differently but i choose to write it here, concerning the analogy you wrote about Ghanaians calling awolowo something what the Yoruba (who owned him) never called him. Lol, I will like to counter that with this analogy of mine as well, Yoruba see Oduduwa as their father, someone divine and they hold him of high esteem, but to an Arab where he came from (either Saudi or egypt: since historians are not sure) , he is just a common man. Can you see? Imagine a Yoruba man and an Arab man now arguing about the personality of oduduwa, you can't expect them to be the same!!! As simple as that!!!!!

Your analogy actually nailed your arguemnt as being wrong. I would rather believe the narration of the Yorubas concerning Oduduwa instead of the Arabs. Why? Oduduwa is a mythical figure, the the genesis of Yoruba people, culture and tradition, the same way the Jews believed that all prophets, except mohammed, represent their culture, religion and tradition. It is quite strange that you are remotely saying that Oduduwa is an Arab. Very strange and wrong; an insult to the Yoruba race.

Arabs/muslims of course borrowed all their prophets (Jewish prophets), minus mohammed, from the Jewish religion and tradition, why will muslims now claim to know their propehts (Jewish prophets) better than Jews? The same way you try to connect Oduduwa to the Arab; do you mean Abdul-Oduduwa?

In summary, a sane mind will go with the narrative of the Yorubaman on Oduduwa instead of the arabman's narrative because Oduduwa represents the Yoruba people, culture and religion and did not have any role in Arab mythology. The Arabian story on Oduduwa will of course be false if it contradicts the yoruba version. Two contradcitory statements cannot be both true, it is either both of them are false or only one of the version is true.

Torah was written about 9000 years before the birth of Mohammed while the bible 600 years.

So, who should we believe?

IamAtikulate:
Torah was written about 9000 years before the birth of Mohammed while the bible 600 years.

So, who should we believe?

Why would I believe in a book that some parts were removed and some were added.Did you know that there were books in the bible in the past that talked about Magic but later it was removed.The bible believes the Earth is around 6000yrs and and you are talking about 9000yrs.

sulasa07:

Why would I believe in a book that some parts were removed and some were added.Did you know that there were books in the bible in the past that talked about Magic but later it was removed.The bible believes the Earth is around 6000yrs and and you are talking about 9000yrs.

You need help. Real help.

The bible is just a library of books written over a period of 1500 years. There were a lot of writers whose work didn't make it to the Bible because they were not inspired.

So there is nothing like such. Some people compiled there own (library) bible which were not accepted.

Islam and stupid lies.

The bible didn't believe such. From Adam to Jesus is over 10000 years according to Bible genealogy.

In Christian theology, there is something we call first and second account of creation.

Creation didn't begin with Adam. Adam highlights beginning of a new dispensation.

Gen 1:1 In the beginning God created heaven and earth.

Gen 1:2 the earth was without form and void and darkness was upon the face of the deep and the spirit of God was moving upon the face of the water.

The earth, water, rock, even light had been created years before the creation of water.

Now go to revelation to understand why the earth is now shapeless, void, covered with water and darkness.

Revelation 12: 7-17

There was a rebellion in heaven and Satan was cast down to earth. Don't forget before that, there were no Adam and Eve.

He was on earth even before Adam was created.

According to our Bible, the world has been in existence before the creation of Adam

IamAtikulate:

You need help. Real help.

The bible is just a library of books written over a period of 1500 years. There were a lot of writers whose work didn't make it to the Bible because they were not inspired.

So there is nothing like such. Some people compiled there own (library) bible which were not accepted.

Who determines which book get accepted to be canonical? Paul who was against Christ when he was alive wrote more books in the NT than the 11 disciples combined.

Secondly, if the Bible was written over 1500yrs and Adam to Jesus is 10,000yrs then there's a gap of 8,500yrs of Christianity and stupid lies.

IamAtikulate:

The bible didn't believe such. From Adam to Jesus is over 10000 years according to Bible genealogy.

In Christian theology, there is something we call first and second account of creation.

Creation didn't begin with Adam. Adam highlights beginning of a new dispensation.

Gen 1:1 In the beginning God created heaven and earth.

Gen 1:2 the earth was without form and void and darkness was upon the face of the deep and the spirit of God was moving upon the face of the water.

The earth, water, rock, even light had been created years before the creation of water.

Now go to revelation to understand why the earth is now shapeless, void, covered with water and darkness.

Revelation 12: 7-17

There was a rebellion in heaven and Satan was cast down to earth. Don't forget before that, there were no Adam and Eve.

He was on earth even before Adam was created.

According to our Bible, the world has been in existence before the creation of Adam

If there could be a rebellion in heaven apparently your Gods have failed in keeping tabs of his domicile.
.
Our beliefs are different from yours. Allah is always in control. Angels never disobey His command. Only humans and Jinns do.
Satan is a Jinn not an Angel.

Rashduct4luv:


Who determines which book get accepted to be canonical? Paul who was against Christ when he was alive wrote more books in the NT than the 11 disciples combined.

Secondly, if the Bible was written over 1500yrs and Adam to Jesus is 10,000yrs then there's a gap of 8,500yrs of Christianity and stupid lies.

Koran is less than 2000 years but it talked about Adam. The books in the bible were inspired by the Holy Spirit who has been in existence since the beginning.

There was no gap.

Rashduct4luv:

If there could be a rebellion in heaven apparently your Gods have failed in keeping tabs of his domicile.

Your quran also stated that devil rebelled against Allahu by refusing to bow to Adam. It seems your brand of islam is different from what is obtainable in the north?

Rashduct4luv:

Our beliefs are different from yours. Allah is always in control. Angels never disobey His command. Only humans and Jinns do.
Satan is a Jinn not an Angel.

Yeah, we don't believe the same thing and we will never. You mean some that sends his followers astray just to punish them is in control?

Una need help.

fortran12:


Even sef, the Quran is incomplete as a sheep ate some pages that was kept under the bed at Mohammed's. The verse for stoning and breastfeeding for adults was eaten by this sheep.

Are you sure about this?

Rashduct4luv what sayest thou?

IamAtikulate:

Are you sure about this?

Rashduct4luv what sayest thou?

..
Same things we have answered being regurgitated again.
.
Paste your references here.

IamAtikulate:

Koran is less than 2000 years but it talked about Adam. The books in the bible were inspired by the Holy Spirit who has been in existence since the beginning.
There was no gap.

I know you will not answer the subject matter posed to you except to run. The books in the Bible were inspired but some men had to copy, edit, translate, ...it. Do you know that no two original manuscript of the Bible is similar?

IamAtikulate:

Your quran also stated that devil rebelled against Allahu by refusing to bow to Adam. It seems your brand of islam is different from what is obtainable in the north?

The devil disobeyed Him but there was no rebellion in heaven. It's only in the Bible that sons of God will sleep with daughters of men and bore children through them. Then another son will come to die for the world again.

IamAtikulate:

Yeah, we don't believe the same thing and we will never. You mean some that sends his followers astray just to punish them is in control?
Una need help.

You need more help. Your Gods that were brutal killing unbelievers anyhow in the OT without freewill....

Rashduct4luv:


I know you will not answer the subject matter posed to you except to run. The books in the Bible were inspired but some men had to copy, edit, translate, ...it. Do you know that no two original manuscript of the Bible is similar? [
/quote]
Aren't you stupid? The original manuscript of Matthew was the one written by Matthew and it is the manuscript we are using.

If you are talking about translation manuscripts, then you need bigger help.

The bible is the most translated book and when people translate books, they use different words but the true meaning is not lost.

[quote author=Rashduct4luv post=83927856]

The devil disobeyed Him but there was no rebellion in heaven. It's only in the Bible that sons of God will sleep with daughters of men and bore children through them. Then another son will come to die for the world again.

So disobedience to a sovereign authority is not rebellion? Islam is something else.

Angels lusted after the daughter of men and took human form.

What is the difference between this and the eternal erection in islamic paradise?

Rashduct4luv:


You need more help. Your Gods that were brutal killing unbelievers anyhow in the OT without freewill....

No unbeliever was killed in the OT because of their faith. It is either God is helping Isreal to fight their wars or someone entered a sacred place and was struck by the glory of God or they sinned.

In the OT, God is fighting his wars but in Islam, Mohammed was fighting for allahu

Your allahu should learn how to fight his battles

[quote author=IamAtikulate post=83928323][/quote]

Angels are not humans with sex and genitals. They only worship Allah and can't disobey him.
.
As for your claim that your God fights for himself, here are the Bible verses for your perusal.

In the Old Testament:

Let us look at Deuteronomy 13:6-9 "If your very own brother, or your son or daughter, or the wife you love, or your closest friend secretly entices you, saying: Let us go and worship other gods (gods that neither you nor your fathers have known, gods of the peoples around you, whether near or far, from one end of the land to the other, or gods of other religions), do not yield to him or listen to him. Show him no pity. Do not spare him or shield him. You must certainly put him to death. Your hand must be the first in putting him to death, and then the hands of all the people."

Also let us look at Deuteronomy 17:3-5 "And he should go and worship other gods and bow down to them or to the sun or the moon or all the army of the heavens, .....and you must stone such one with stones and such one must die."

2 Chronicles 15:13 "All who would not seek the LORD, the God of Israel, were to be put to death, whether small or great, man or woman."

Reply me if you need more.

Rashduct4luv:


Angels are not humans with sex and genitals. They only worship Allah and can't disobey him.
.
As for your claim that your God fights for himself, here are the Bible verses for your perusal.

In the Old Testament:

Let us look at Deuteronomy 13:6-9 "If your very own brother, or your son or daughter, or the wife you love, or your closest friend secretly entices you, saying: Let us go and worship other gods (gods that neither you nor your fathers have known, gods of the peoples around you, whether near or far, from one end of the land to the other, or gods of other religions), do not yield to him or listen to him. Show him no pity. Do not spare him or shield him. You must certainly put him to death. Your hand must be the first in putting him to death, and then the hands of all the people."

Also let us look at Deuteronomy 17:3-5 "And he should go and worship other gods and bow down to them or to the sun or the moon or all the army of the heavens, .....and you must stone such one with stones and such one must die."

2 Chronicles 15:13 "All who would not seek the LORD, the God of Israel, were to be put to death, whether small or great, man or woman."

Reply me if you need more.

But devil disobeyed your allahu nah?

Christianity starts from Matthew and ends in Revelation. Our God fights His fights.

This is a Christianity vs Islam discourse. Be guided

IamAtikulate:

But devil disobeyed your allahu nah?

Christianity starts from Matthew and ends in Revelation. Our God fights His fights.

This is a Christianity vs Islam discourse. Be guided

.
I am guided to expose your falsehood. But Satan did not cause any rebellion in heaven. Rebellion means God's not in control of heaven. Hence God now sent him down.
.
So you mean God did not authorize OT right only NT? No holy spirit is involved in the OT has you said before right?
.
This is from Matthew now.

Matthew 15:1-9
1 Then some Pharisees and teachers of the law came to Jesus from Jerusalem and asked,
2 "Why do your disciples break the tradition of the elders? They don't wash their hands before they eat!"
3 Jesus replied, "And why do you break the command of God for the sake of your tradition?
4 For God said, 'Honor your father and mother' and 'Anyone who curses his father or mother must be put to death.'
5 But you say that if a man says to his father or mother, 'Whatever help you might otherwise have received from me is a gift devoted to God,'
6 he is not to 'honor his father' with it. Thus you nullify the word of God for the sake of your tradition.
7 You hypocrites! Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you:
8 " 'These people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me.
9 They worship me in vain; their teachings are but rules taught by men.'"

There are few points to notice here:

1- Notice in verse 3, Jesus rebuked the Pharisees for breaking the Commands of GOD Almighty.

2- In verse 4, he used the cursing of parents' punishment as an example. The context, however, is not limited to just this example!

3- In verses 7,8 and 9, he used a quote from the book of Isaiah in the Old Testament, to further prove that they are not following the Commands of GOD Almighty.

4- Jesus clearly had a problem with them not following the punishment of death for cursing the parents or any punishment of death that is commanded in the OT for this matter! In fact, Jesus himself said:

"Do not think that I [Jesus] have come to abolish the Law (the Old Testament) or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke or a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law (the Old Testament) until everything is accomplished. (Matthew 5:17-18)"

"Then Jesus said to the crowds and to his disciples: 'The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat. So you must obey them and do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach.' (Matthew 23:1-3)"

This clearly means:

1- Jesus absolutely approved and commanded the following of the OT's Laws regarding apostates!

2- The fact he commanded death penalty for cursing the parents clearly proves that he also approves of killing apostates as clearly shown in the OT verses above!

There is no question that Jesus approved of killing apostates, exactly as killing those who mistreat their parents!
.
Reply and get more.

Rashduct4luv:

.
I am guided to expose your falsehood. But Satan did not cause any rebellion in heaven. Rebellion means God's not in control of heaven. Hence God now sent him down.
.
So you mean God did not authorize OT right only NT? No holy spirit is involved in the OT has you said before right?
.
This is from Matthew now.

Matthew 15:1-9
1 Then some Pharisees and teachers of the law came to Jesus from Jerusalem and asked,
2 "Why do your disciples break the tradition of the elders? They don't wash their hands before they eat!"
3 Jesus replied, "And why do you break the command of God for the sake of your tradition?
4 For God said, 'Honor your father and mother' and 'Anyone who curses his father or mother must be put to death.'
5 But you say that if a man says to his father or mother, 'Whatever help you might otherwise have received from me is a gift devoted to God,'
6 he is not to 'honor his father' with it. Thus you nullify the word of God for the sake of your tradition.
7 You hypocrites! Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you:
8 " 'These people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me.
9 They worship me in vain; their teachings are but rules taught by men.'"

There are few points to notice here:

1- Notice in verse 3, Jesus rebuked the Pharisees for breaking the Commands of GOD Almighty.

2- In verse 4, he used the cursing of parents' punishment as an example. The context, however, is not limited to just this example!

3- In verses 7,8 and 9, he used a quote from the book of Isaiah in the Old Testament, to further prove that they are not following the Commands of GOD Almighty.

4- Jesus clearly had a problem with them not following the punishment of death for cursing the parents or any punishment of death that is commanded in the OT for this matter! In fact, Jesus himself said:

"Do not think that I [Jesus] have come to abolish the Law (the Old Testament) or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke or a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law (the Old Testament) until everything is accomplished. (Matthew 5:17-18)"

"Then Jesus said to the crowds and to his disciples: 'The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat. So you must obey them and do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach.' (Matthew 23:1-3)"

This clearly means:

1- Jesus absolutely approved and commanded the following of the OT's Laws regarding apostates!

2- The fact he commanded death penalty for cursing the parents clearly proves that he also approves of killing apostates as clearly shown in the OT verses above!

There is no question that Jesus approved of killing apostates, exactly as killing those who mistreat their parents!
.
Reply and get more.

According to the Holy book, Jesus operated under the law to save those who are held bondage by the law.

The death of Christ brought an end to the law.

Be guided!

IamAtikulate:

According to the Holy book, Jesus operated under the law to save those who are held bondage by the law.

The death of Christ brought an end to the law.

Be guided!

So Jesus lied that he did not come to abolish the law of Moses?


Bye.You said Jesus is a liar. Not me.

Rashduct4luv:


So Jesus lied that he did not come to abolish the law of Moses?


Bye.You said Jesus is a liar. Not me.

The whole essence of the law of Moses is to usher in the new covenant that was promised in Genesis.

Jesus is the fulfillment of that law. His death brought it to an end but prior to that, he operated under that law to save the world from the bondage of the law

Islam will never comprehend the gospel of truth.

IamAtikulate:

The whole essence of the law of Moses is to usher in the new covenant that was promised in Genesis.

Jesus is the fulfillment of that law. His death brought it to an end but prior to that, he operated under that law to save the world from the bondage of the law

Islam will never comprehend the gospel of truth.

If this your assertion is true then Jesus is a liar again in Matthew below.

Matthew 19:16-26 King James Version (KJV)

16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?

17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. (I was expecting he would say "accept me as your Lord and personal saviour" or "believe I would later die for your sins"

18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,

19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

20 The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet?

Who is the liar? Jesus, Matthew or you?

Please bring verses that contains "Jesus said" to butress your point. Mind you John 3:16 was not being said by Jesus.