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Is Arsene Wenger A Magician? by norrisman: 9:25am On Feb 03, 2011
I had some spare time on my hands and in light of the current spending spree by premiership clubs; I put together the cost of the current Arsenal first team.

Szczesny - Trainee
Sagna - £7.5 million
Djourou - Trainee
Koscielny - £8.5 million
Clichy - Undisclosed
Walcott - £5 million
Song - £1 million
Wilshere - Trainee
Fabregas - Trainee
Nasri - £12.5 million
V. Persie - £2.75 million

The total amount for players we have figures for is £37.25. There are 4 players on Arsenal’s books who joined as trainees of which nominal fees of less than £0.5 million each will have been paid for 3 of them i.e. Fabregas, Djourou and Szczesny who joined from other clubs. Wilshere started with the Arsenal so no fee applies in his case. Clichy was signed for an undisclosed amount and I’ll use a ball park figure and assume he was signed for £2.5 million in 2003. I doubt the figure will be this high considering the fact that V.Persie was signed for £2.75 million in 2004 (1 season left on his contract at Feyernoord) and Alex Song was signed for £1 million in 2006.

This brings the total value of current first team players to £41.25 million. This is £10 million less than Chelsea paid for Torres and the entire team cost only £6 million more than Andy Carroll. In fact Cristiano Ronaldo is worth 2 Arsenal first teams.

My conclusion to this is either one of 2 things; Football has gone crazy or Arsene Wenger is a magician.
Re: Is Arsene Wenger A Magician? by switch47(m): 3:34pm On Feb 03, 2011
@ post
Simply put Wenger is a pure coach. he does not reply on ready made players to be at the top. Wenger can blend any set of players and achieve a competitive result. that is what makes a great coach. and as per winning tropgies, Wenger has done that before and i am sure he will do it again. he is one f the best in the world!!
Re: Is Arsene Wenger A Magician? by duduspace(m): 4:32pm On Feb 03, 2011
Thanks for the work put in my brother, this is what some blockheads on this forum have not been able to understan.d.  grin

When we talk about the Arsenal youth project, this is what we mean and this is the way forward which is why UEFA is now giving Arsenal a lot of credit.

The most impressive thing is that on the list, 7 out of 11 players came to Arsenal before they clocked 18.
Szczesny, Djorou, Clichy, Walcott, Song, Wilshere and Fabregas, and some mumpties will still come out and argue that Arsenal have no youth policy?  undecided
Re: Is Arsene Wenger A Magician? by codeb(m): 5:02pm On Feb 03, 2011
what has he won with those money saving players? Total rubbish. Little wonder your trophy cabinet is so dry and full of cobwebs. grin grin

Arsenal fans are real mugus, suffering and smiling!

I dey laugh o.
Re: Is Arsene Wenger A Magician? by Cougar2: 5:05pm On Feb 03, 2011
norrisman:

I had some spare time on my hands and in light of the current spending spree by premiership clubs; I put together the cost of the current Arsenal first team.

Szczesny - Trainee
Sagna - £7.5 million
Djourou - Trainee
Koscielny - £8.5 million
Clichy - Undisclosed
Walcott - £5 million
Song - £1 million
Wilshere - Trainee
Fabregas - Trainee
Nasri - £12.5 million
V. Persie - £2.75 million

The total amount for players we have figures for is £37.25. There are 4 players on Arsenal’s books who joined as trainees of which nominal fees of less than £0.5 million each will have been paid for 3 of them i.e. Fabregas, Djourou and Szczesny who joined from other clubs. Wilshere started with the Arsenal so no fee applies in his case. Clichy was signed for an undisclosed amount and I’ll use a ball park figure and assume he was signed for £2.5 million in 2003. I doubt the figure will be this high considering the fact that V.Persie was signed for £2.75 million in 2004 (1 season left on his contract at Feyernoord) and Alex Song was signed for £1 million in 2006.

This brings the total value of current first team players to £41.25 million. This is £10 million less than Chelsea paid for Torres and the entire team cost only £6 million more than Andy Carroll. In fact Cristiano Ronaldo is worth 2 Arsenal first teams.

My conclusion to this is either one of 2 things; Football has gone crazy or Arsene Wenger is a magician.

did you generate these figures from your behind? walcott is 12 million, nasri is 16 million and koscielny is 10 million. besides that, what have these runts won since wenger bought robin van persie(the oldest of the lot)? nothing. like evra said, arsenal is an academy. a football institution to groom embryos and play exhibition football. chelsea spend money and they win trophies. arsenal don't spend and they don't win. i know what i'd rather have.
Re: Is Arsene Wenger A Magician? by debosky(m): 5:20pm On Feb 03, 2011
Stop spreading falsehood Sharon - Koscielny cost £8.5m and Nasri cost £12m. . . .again I don't know what this obsession with inflating Arsenal transfer fees is all about.

I don't know which gutter you pulled your information from either. tongue
Re: Is Arsene Wenger A Magician? by Cougar2: 5:26pm On Feb 03, 2011
debosky:

Stop spreading falsehood Sharon - Koscielny cost £8.5m and Nasri cost £12m. . . .again I don't know what this obsession with inflating Arsenal transfer fees is all about.

I don't know which gutter you pulled your information from either. tongue

nasri is 12 million again and walcott is also free? grin cheesy keep piling your duds while united win the big ones. never mind, arsene will get the award for the stingiest manager in the world.
Re: Is Arsene Wenger A Magician? by debosky(m): 5:28pm On Feb 03, 2011
Did I mention Walcott? I said Nasri was £12m and that is a fact.

Arsenal is spending within its means and there is no shame in that.
Re: Is Arsene Wenger A Magician? by Cougar2: 5:32pm On Feb 03, 2011
debosky:

Did I mention Walcott? I said Nasri was £12m and that is a fact.

Arsenal is spending within its means and there is no shame in that.

nasri is more than 12 million. stop lying before thunder strikes your sinews.
Re: Is Arsene Wenger A Magician? by debosky(m): 5:34pm On Feb 03, 2011
Nasri cost less than £12m, that was just the rounding up effect. Now stop propagating fallacies before you are stricken with leprosy.
Re: Is Arsene Wenger A Magician? by Cougar2: 5:38pm On Feb 03, 2011
debosky:

Nasri cost less than £12m, that was just the rounding up effect. Now stop propagating fallacies before you are stricken with leprosy.

nasri's transfer deal was £15.8m

look out for nasri here: http://www.transferleague.co.uk/premiership-transfers/arsenal-transfers.html
Re: Is Arsene Wenger A Magician? by amurx(m): 5:43pm On Feb 03, 2011
in arsene we trust
Re: Is Arsene Wenger A Magician? by debosky(m): 5:48pm On Feb 03, 2011
Nasri's fee was £12m.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/a/arsenal/7462281.stm

Besides, your dubious website claims Walcott was bought for £9.1m. . . .are you picking and choosing which accounts you believe from them?  grin
Re: Is Arsene Wenger A Magician? by switch47(m): 5:51pm On Feb 03, 2011
What he has won? He has maintained his team in top 4 for 14 consecutive years, he went ubeaten wining the epl,got to champion league final keeping a record clean slate,he is the work best coach of the decade and the fact that he did not get a trophy for 5 years does not mean he wont ever get one.wenger will still win trophies! Arsenal trophy winning days shall come again and with the new UEFA RULE Arsenal is the most favoured.wenger is indeed the best magician
Re: Is Arsene Wenger A Magician? by Cougar2: 5:52pm On Feb 03, 2011
debosky:

Nasri's fee was £12m.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/a/arsenal/7462281.stm

Besides, your dubious website claims Walcott was bought for £9.1m. . . .are you picking and choosing which accounts you believe from them?  grin

conveniently omitting this. . . .Although no details of the fee were announced by the Gunners, Nasri is reported to have cost £12m. theo walcott's deal plus add-ons was 12 million which arsenal must have paid the same season sven took walcott to the world cup.
Re: Is Arsene Wenger A Magician? by debosky(m): 6:09pm On Feb 03, 2011
No fees are ever announced for Arsenal transfers, so why should I accept your own fee as authentic when my reliable sources inform me it was 11.8 rounded up to £12m?
Re: Is Arsene Wenger A Magician? by Cougar2: 6:14pm On Feb 03, 2011
debosky:

No fees are ever announced for Arsenal transfers, so why should I accept your own fee as authentic when my reliable sources inform me it was 11.8 rounded up to £12m?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/a/arsenal/4614538.stm

i thought arsenal never announce their transfers. surely, if the buying club don't say it, the selling club would.
Re: Is Arsene Wenger A Magician? by debosky(m): 6:22pm On Feb 03, 2011
Who is debating TW14's price? All I've shown is that your website is a dubious source - no fee of £9.1 was paid for Theo at any point in time.

Besides, you can't accept BBC's account on Theo and reject the one for Nasri - you gotta be consistent.

Secondly, if you can find a Marseille report claiming £15.8m then I'll accept your evidence.
Re: Is Arsene Wenger A Magician? by Cougar2: 6:26pm On Feb 03, 2011
debosky:

Who is debating TW14's price? All I've shown is that your website is a dubious source - no fee of £9.1 was paid for Theo at any point in time.

Besides, you can't accept BBC's account on Theo and reject the one for Nasri - you gotta be consistent.

Secondly, if you can find a Marseille report claiming £15.8m then I'll accept your evidence.

theo's deal was supposed to be 12 million but wenger eventually paid 9.1million. it saddens me i know much more about the club you have been supporting since 19XX. shame on you - now take these lectures and digest it.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/2296011/Southampton-lose-2.9m-over-Theo-Walcott.html

there you have it, my link is as genuine as they come. wenger stingily stitched southampton for 2.9 million.
Re: Is Arsene Wenger A Magician? by debosky(m): 6:29pm On Feb 03, 2011
So you lied when you said this:

*Cougar*:

did you generate these figures from your behind? walcott is 12 million

Why should I believe anything you say?
Re: Is Arsene Wenger A Magician? by Cougar2: 6:32pm On Feb 03, 2011
debosky:

So you lied when you said this:

Why should I believe anything you say? 

that was the worth of the transfer as at jan 2006 - when walcott penned the dotted lines. eventually, southampton settled for 9.1 milla few years later. whichever way you wanna look at it. the 12 milla story and the 9.1 milla story are all correct. wenger should have paid 12 milla but he paid 9.1 mil. at least, i know my facts whereas debosky is completely ignorant. tongue
Re: Is Arsene Wenger A Magician? by dayokanu(m): 7:39pm On Feb 03, 2011
Is someone here saying Arshavin is not in Arsenal again?

If you dont spend, whats the worst that could happen to you? Go trophyless which wenGAY has been doing.

Its like a student who doesnt read and fails an exam but expects to be respected for not reading and failing. shocked

SMH at GAYYner logic
Re: Is Arsene Wenger A Magician? by debosky(m): 8:38pm On Feb 03, 2011
^^ Are you dyslexic or something?

The OP was talking about the first team (i.e. 11) not the entire squad.
dayokanu:

If you dont spend, whats the worst that could happen to you? Go trophyless which wenGAY has been doing.

Why not look at the worst that could happen after spending? You 'win' like Portsmouth and go into administration and get relegated. Or you drop down like Leeds and still don't win.

It is moronic to think spending alone will yield trophies - AW has spent less compared to his main rivals and still is providing a competitive team, albeit one that has failed to win a title in the past 5 years.
Re: Is Arsene Wenger A Magician? by Cougar2: 8:44pm On Feb 03, 2011
debosky:

^^ Are you dyslexic or something?

arshavin is no longer a first teamer? grin since when?
Re: Is Arsene Wenger A Magician? by debosky(m): 8:49pm On Feb 03, 2011
Since Walcott displaced him against Chelski.
Re: Is Arsene Wenger A Magician? by Cougar2: 9:01pm On Feb 03, 2011
debosky:

Since Walcott displaced him against Chelski.

in other words, wenger is a magician by parading cheap players in the league, isn't it? the op still wants us to believe robin van persie bought for 2.75 milla almost six years ago hasn't appreciated in value and walcott bought for 9.1m hasnt appreciated for 5 yrs. it makes no sense at all calculating the value of the first team based on what these duds cost when they were bought. does van persie still play as a 2m player after six years of intensive training including his continuous usage of the state of the art facility @ the emirates and his five-figure wages? with andy caroll valued at 35 milla, van persie cannot be less than 40 milla which renders the op's concept worthless. grin
Re: Is Arsene Wenger A Magician? by duduspace(m): 9:15pm On Feb 03, 2011
So only Arsenal player values are appreciating? are other club's player's values depreciating?   grin grin

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Re: Is Arsene Wenger A Magician? by Cougar2: 9:20pm On Feb 03, 2011
duduspace:

So only Arsenal player values are appreciating, are other club's player's values depreciating?   grin grin

that's not the point. all i am saying is y'all should compare like for like. don't compare a striker wenger bought in 2005 at 2.75 milla to torres that chelsea bought in 2011 for 50 million. it is moronic to compare 2.75 milla striker of 2005 who has benefited from 6 yrs state of the art facility and still value him at 2.75 milla.
Re: Is Arsene Wenger A Magician? by duduspace(m): 9:26pm On Feb 03, 2011
I see yur point, but yu've still got to give credit to the policy and how much its saved the club. The current true value of the squad is definitely much more than the cost but its still credit to the manager to have built up such a squad with relatively minimal outlay without sacrificing the footballing principles and maintaining a top 4 position at all times.
Re: Is Arsene Wenger A Magician? by debosky(m): 9:32pm On Feb 03, 2011
*Cougar*:

that's not the point. all i am saying is y'all should compare like for like. don't compare a striker wenger bought in 2005 at 2.75 milla to torres that chelsea bought for 50 million. it is moronic to compare 2.75 milla striker of 2005 who has benefited from 6 yrs state of the art facility and still value him at 2.75 milla.

I agree - but that is the type of shallow thinking promoted by sky and the tabloids' hype over transfer fees.

However, since you don't have subsisting offers for RVP at the moment, it is nearly impossible to properly quantify his 'present day' worth.

Nevertheless, the value he was bought for remains a pertinent measure - the only other quantifiable way to do it would be to include wages paid say over the 6 years for RVP. The inherent flaw in the latter approach is that we can confidently presume that the wages would've been spent regardless, either on RVP or on another striker in his place. Therefore, the only externally comparable measure remains the transfer fee incurred.

At best, the inflationary increases could be factored in - £2.75m in 2004 might be worth say £8m today - that will be a reasonable comparator.
Re: Is Arsene Wenger A Magician? by dayokanu(m): 9:34pm On Feb 03, 2011
debosky:


The OP was talking about the first team (i.e. 11) not the entire squad.
Why not look at the worst that could happen after spending? You 'win' like Portsmouth and go into administration and get relegated. Or you drop down like Leeds and still don't win.  

You mean wenGAY uses peanuts to build his first team but uses millions to build his bench with players like Arshavin? Smart right?

It is moronic to think spending alone will yield trophies - AW has spent less compared to his main rivals and still is providing a competitive team, albeit one that has failed to win a title in the past 5 years.

You have not won anything in half a decade is the main point.

It doesnt make sense giving accolades to a student who doesnt read when he still fails exams
Re: Is Arsene Wenger A Magician? by dayokanu(m): 9:39pm On Feb 03, 2011
duduspace:

I see yur point, but yu've still got to give credit to the policy and how much its saved the club. The current true value of the squad is definitely much more than the cost but its still credit to the manager to have built up such a squad with relatively minimal outlay without sacrificing the footballing principles and maintaining a top 4 position at all times.

Michael Ballack at his peak moved to Chelsea for free, we should also give Mourinho accolades for getting a top midfielder for free (never mind that his wages were in the region of 130,000 GBP per week)

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