We still hope that many will ultimately use discussion forums to learn more about issues they don't fully comprehend instead of fighting and abusing people that choose not to believe their half baked information.

The news below refers, why would a system be put in place to make a country collect taxes on behalf of another?

Who gives the country the right to withhold such taxes from a democratically elected government in Palestine?

What makes democracy in one part of the world accepted and in another part rejected?

These and similar questions are the real issues making things worse in the Israeli Palestinian conflict and unfortunately many have already taken sides based on religion and not common sense.

Enjoy!

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/6234556.stm

Israel to free Palestinian funds

Prime Minister Ehud Olmert asked the cabinet to approve the vote
Israel has approved the release of frozen tax funds to the emergency government of Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas.
The move will help reinforce Mr Abbas's position against Hamas, which has taken control of the Gaza Strip.

An Israeli official said the tax revenues would be handed over in stages to prevent the money reaching Hamas.

The money was originally withheld by Israel after the Islamist group came to power in the January 2006 election.

The cabinet's vote came ahead of a summit that Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert is due to attend with Mr Abbas and Egyptian and Jordanian leaders.

But the summit will not see Israel entering into negotiations on a final peace deal with the Palestinians, a government official said.

"These talks do not include final status issues, but rather, how the prime minister and the president of the Palestinian Authority would envision a future Palestinian state," David Baker said.

Scepticism

Mr Olmert said the funds would "gradually help the new Palestinian government, one that is not a Hamas government".

"We will discuss with the Palestinian president tomorrow, and with the Palestinian government in the summit's aftermath, how we release the funds," he said.

The Israelis should release all our money. These are Palestinian, not Israeli, funds

Saeb Erekat

An official said the money would be released once a mechanism is established to ensure that it does not reach Hamas.

A BBC correspondent says Israel has spoken about releasing the tax revenues over before, and many Palestinians will be sceptical until the funds are handed over.

An Israeli government official said the cabinet approved the transfer of around $350m (£125m), the Reuters news agency reported.

But it added this was short of the $700m sought by the Palestinian president.

A senior aide to Mr Abbas, Saeb Erekat, said: "The Israelis should release all our money. These are Palestinian, not Israeli, funds."

Last week, the US, the EU, and Israel said they would lift the economic embargo on the emergency government announced by Mr Abbas.

At the time Israel said it would handover about $800m (£400m) of custom taxes.

Earlier this month Mr Abbas dissolved government and declared a state of emergency, following deadly clashes between his Fatah faction and Hamas in the Gaza Strip.

The fighting left Hamas in control of Gaza, while Fatah says it retains control in the West Bank.

These and similar questions are the real issues making things worse in the Israeli Palestinian conflict and unfortunately many have already taken sides based on religion and not common sense.

Lets do common sense

If Nigeria is at war with any country, it is no doubt that the opponents target for bombing will be our Military and Oil installations for obvious reasons. Military installations in other to prevent repriasal attacks and then oil installations to starve us of funds to stockpile amunitions to lunch future attacts. Sounds harsh but that is the art of warfare and is justified.

Isreal witholding Palestenian taxes because it has access to it, and because it thinks Palestine under the leadership of militants will simply use such tax funds to stockpile Bombs and rocket propelled grenades which they will use to launch unprovoked attacks is a war strategy. While it may not be right in principle in an ideal world, in the middle of a battle anything that guarantees the security of a Nation becomes justified. It is a pre-emptive strategy.

Isreal is at war with a people who go to bed everyday hoping that they will wake up the next day and Isreal will disappear or cease to exist. If you transfer Isrealli military myth to Palestine, they will not cease their tax they will simply wipe them out of mother earth. They have proclaimed it so many times that they dont recognise Isreal's right to existence.

I dont know what transpired between both many years before I was born, whoever was the true owner of the lands they are fighting for I dont care to know. The fact remains that a lot has been taken over by events and thus compromise has to be sort. We can not have a situation where Palestenians will keep on thinking the whole of Isreal should be relocated or wiped out for them to live. That wo'nt happen.

Two summers ago, after the death of Arafat then came Mahmoud Abbas. Abbas was able to strike a deal with Aeriel Sharon and we all saw the Isreali army evacuating its own people from parts of Gaza strip and West Bank. Something the bullet could not achieve so many years under Arafat, dialogue achieved it under Abbas.
What did Isreal get in return, further bombings.

Isreal is only releasing these funds to tell the palestenian people, if you embrace peace we can do a lot together. If you listen to Abbas and Fatah there will be peace. Ehud Olmert has even ordered the realease of further 250 Fatah Prisoners.
It is up to the palestenian people to either toe the path of peace and be loyal to Fatah or continue to vote in a terrorist group (Hamas) as their leaders.

And guess what, Isreali most decorated Army General rtd. (Ehud Barack) has been voted the defence minister. He is no stranger to their cat and mouse game.

What am saying in essence is that, any talk about fundamental human right that does not recognise Isreal's right to life, National Security and Territorial integrity is baseless.

Afam:

We still hope that many will ultimately use discussion forums to learn more about issues they don't fully comprehend instead of fighting and abusing people that choose not to believe their half baked information.

One only hopes that you will take your own self righteous advice.

Afam:

The news below refers, why would a system be put in place to make a country collect taxes on behalf of another?

Maybe we should even ask why a system should be put in place to make a country BE FORCED to provide eletricity, water and other social infrastructure as Isreal has been forced to do in Gaza and Judea-Samaria (decietfully refered to as the westbank).

Afam:

Who gives the country the right to withhold such taxes from a democratically elected government in Palestine?

Mckren has said it all. Where the shoe to be on the other foot, FATAH and HAMAS would not only withhold taxes they would have wiped Isreal off the map ages ago. All is fair in war, if Isreal rightfully percieves that the "taxes" are merely going to be used to procure more weapons to fire at them then it would make sense to withhold it.
What is the purpose of the taxes anyway? Isreal is forced to supply the palestinians with basic social amenities while funds for workers salaries come from the US and the EU! Maybe the REAL question to ask here is WHAT hamas and fatah have been doing with the taxes they've been recieving all along.

And about this hypocrisy of "democratically elected government", Hitler was also democratically elected, no one is condemning the allies from iinvading his country.

Afam:

What makes democracy in one part of the world accepted and in another part rejected?

The real problem is not the process of democracy itself BUT the motive behind it. If indeed Hamas was "democratically elected" why did they go on a murderous rampage to sack the Fatah party from Gaza? Does that itself not completely defeat the democratic process?
What if the US government writes in its constitution not to recognise Nigeria and to do all in its power to drive all Nigerians into the sea, would you sit back and claim they have a legitimate right simply because they were democratically elected?

Afam:

These and similar questions are the real issues making things worse in the Israeli Palestinian conflict and unfortunately many have already taken sides based on religion and not common sense.

That is a falsehood! The REAL ISSUES is not whether hamas was democratically elected or that Isreal is withholding taxes! This problem has been ongoing for more than 40 yrs! Isreal has not been withholding taxes for more than a yr and hamas was only elected less than 2 yrs ago. The real problem is one of religiously inspired hatred and a desire to destroy the Jewish race as enshrined in the Hamas charter. Land, water, taxes, democracy are all buta means to achieving an end- the destruction of the Jewish race.

Is Isreal withholding taxes from Iran?

Al-Qaeda seeks unity with Hamas

[size=14pt]Osama Bin Laden's number two has called on the Islamist group Hamas to unite with al-Qaeda after its victory in Gaza over Fatah, in a web-posted audiotape.
Ayman al-Zawahiri also warned against any attempt by Arab countries to wrest control of the Gaza Strip from Hamas.

The speaker, identified as the Egyptian-born militant, called on Muslims around the world to back Hamas with arms, money and violence against US and Israeli interests.

The speaker urged Hamas to implement Islamic law in Gaza.

"Taking over power is not a goal but a means to implement God's word on earth," he said.

"Unite with mujahideen in Palestine,  and with all mujahideen in the world in the face of the upcoming attack where Egyptians and Saudis are expected to play part of it," he added, suggesting the two Arab countries intend to intervene in Gaza.

"Provide them with money, do your best to get it there, break the siege imposed on them by crusaders and Arab leader traitors.

"Facilitate weapons smuggling from neighbouring countries. We can support them by targeting the crusader and Zionist interest wherever we can," he said in the 25-minute recording. [/size]

What a democratically elected government! Do we need to ask what god's word they are talking about here? Please read Hamas article 24 for further clarification.

Surprisingly,Afam failed to mention that the West Bank and Gaza received 700 million Euros($939 million) in aid last year.With a population of 4 million,that will be the equivalent of Nigeria receiving a minimum of $30 billion per annum.

[url]http://www.dw-world.de/dw/article/0,2144,2613545,00.html[/url]

I-man:

Surprisingly,Afam failed to mention that the West Bank and Gaza received 700 million Euros($939 million) in aid last year.With a population of 4 million,that will be the equivalent of Nigeria receiving a minimum of $30 billion per annum.

[url]http://www.dw-world.de/dw/article/0,2144,2613545,00.html[/url]

You don't think for me, I don't think like you so stop imagining things that Afam will state or not state on a forum. I cannot be brainwashed and manipulated like you.

davidylan:

One only hopes that you will take your own self righteous advice.

Maybe we should even ask why a system should be put in place to make a country BE FORCED to provide eletricity, water and other social infrastructure as Isreal has been forced to do in Gaza and Judea-Samaria (decietfully refered to as the westbank).

Mckren has said it all. Where the shoe to be on the other foot, FATAH and HAMAS would not only withhold taxes they would have wiped Isreal off the map ages ago. All is fair in war, if Isreal rightfully percieves that the "taxes" are merely going to be used to procure more weapons to fire at them then it would make sense to withhold it.
What is the purpose of the taxes anyway? Isreal is forced to supply the palestinians with basic social amenities while funds for workers salaries come from the US and the EU! Maybe the REAL question to ask here is WHAT hamas and fatah have been doing with the taxes they've been recieving all along.

And about this hypocrisy of "democratically elected government", Hitler was also democratically elected, no one is condemning the allies from iinvading his country.

The real problem is not the process of democracy itself BUT the motive behind it. If indeed Hamas was "democratically elected" why did they go on a murderous rampage to sack the Fatah party from Gaza? Does that itself not completely defeat the democratic process?
What if the US government writes in its constitution not to recognise Nigeria and to do all in its power to drive all Nigerians into the sea, would you sit back and claim they have a legitimate right simply because they were democratically elected?

That is a falsehood! The REAL ISSUES is not whether hamas was democratically elected or that Isreal is withholding taxes! This problem has been ongoing for more than 40 years! Isreal has not been withholding taxes for more than a yr and hamas was only elected less than 2 years ago. The real problem is one of religiously inspired hatred and a desire to destroy the Jewish race as enshrined in the Hamas charter. Land, water, taxes, democracy are all buta means to achieving an end- the destruction of the Jewish race.

Is Isreal withholding taxes from Iran?

I will pass your very narrow minded questions to a mad man on the street to provide answers.

You think you know when you don't know.

When you find it fashionable stating that muslims worship idols then it goes to show how stupid and silly you are and tomorrow you will talk about christianity.

If christianity is all about what you have displayed here then being a pegan will be a far better choice. Religous blindness and bigotry at its best, you are a big embarassment to christians.

Afam started this thread by writing:  We still hope that many will ultimately use discussion forums to learn more about issues they don't fully comprehend instead of fighting and abusing people that choose not to believe their half baked information.

Davidylan responded to the above statement thus: One only hopes that you will take your own self righteous advice.

Afam came back with the following: I will pass your very narrow minded questions to a mad man on the street to provide answers.
You think you know when you don't know.
When you find it fashionable stating that muslims worship idols then it goes to show how stupid and silly you are and tomorrow you will talk about christianity.
If christianity is all about what you have displayed here then being a pegan will be a far better choice. Religous blindness and bigotry at its best, you are a big embarassment to christian.

And the never ending cycle just continues!!!!

I will pass your very narrow minded questions to a mad man on the street to provide answers.

You think you know when you don't know.

When you find it fashionable stating that muslims worship idols then it goes to show how stupid and silly you are and tomorrow you will talk about christianity.

If christianity is all about what you have displayed here then being a pegan will be a far better choice. Religous blindness and bigotry at its best, you are a big embarassment to christians.

Afam,
you have choosen a way of life which is insult as against providing those of us who are not well informed about isreal and palestine the necessary information that we need to be normal people.

above is your statement and even before you started this topic, below is your statement;
We still hope that many will ultimately use discussion forums to learn more about issues they don't fully comprehend instead of fighting and abusing people that  choose not to believe their half baked information.

the truth of the matter is that you have to keep what you believe about isreal and palestine because you know alot and for those of us who are not well informed to live by on our ignorance.

if you afam believes that isreal and the whole western world will raise money to sponsor al-qaeda and hamas in their interests to bomb isreal on daily bases.
it has never occured to you that this same group has been holding someone hostage for over a year now and maybe that person is not a human being.

did you come across such news as;Al-Qaeda seeks unity with Hamas ?
what is ur view on that?
the money isreal is with-holding and releasing belongs to who?
who are the donors of these funds?
what are the conditions for the release of these funds?
why is abbas having problems with hamas?
is the popularities of hamas on the growth of degrading at the moment?
what is the relationship between al-qaeda and hamas?
since hamas is not a terrorist organisation, could you please tell us if al-qaeda is one?
who is abbas and what is his relevance in the settlement of isreali/palestine conflict?
have you heard of the latest tape from al-qaeda which has called for muslims all over the world to back hamas witharms, money, and voilence against the US and isreali interest?



because i need to know, i am doing my best here to avoid any insult with hope you will do the same and give me kind answers to some of these lingering questions as i am well convienced of the high level impact your answers are going to do to my person.

TayoD:

And the never ending cycle just continues!!!!

That's my line! You are so right though.

you people give afam too much publicity by quoting the rantings of a self righteous hypocrite. The fellow accuses others of limited knowledge and yet has consistently striven NOT to answer any questions put across to him.

My advice is to ignore him. He is not here to discuss but to insult those who dont share his warped views.
Here is what he first said:

Afam:

We still hope that many will ultimately use discussion forums to learn more about issues they don't fully comprehend instead of fighting and abusing people that choose not to believe their half baked information.

Here is his idea of "learning more about issues":

Afam:

You don't think for me, I don't think like you so stop imagining things that Afam will state or not state on a forum. I cannot be brainwashed and manipulated like you.

I will pass your very narrow minded questions to a mad man on the street to provide answers.

You think you know when you don't know.

When you find it fashionable stating that muslims worship idols then it goes to show how stupid and silly you are and tomorrow you will talk about christianity.

If christianity is all about what you have displayed here then being a pegan will be a far better choice. Religous blindness and bigotry at its best, you are a big embarassment to christians.

you can draw ur own conclusions about this individual.

davidylan:

you people give afam too much publicity by quoting the rantings of a self righteous hypocrite. The fellow accuses others of limited knowledge and yet has consistently striven NOT to answer any questions put across to him.

My advice is to ignore him. He is not here to discuss but to insult those who don't share his warped views.
Here is what he first said:

Considering the fact that you advised others to ignore him and went ahead to repeat what they did which you considered was responsible for giving too much publicity then you make yourself the biggest hypocrite and sycophant of our time.

Discuss? With you? You are own your own oo as I have already made it clear that people should not be held responsible for your limit level of comprehension, this forum can not be a substitute for real education.

Afam forget personal grudges and Religous sentiments, lets do common sense like you rightly suggested.

The question is, Does Isreal have the right to defend itself?

Does the call for fundamental human right exclude Isreals right to life and existence?

Lets hear your views on these questions.

McKren:

Afam forget personal grudges and Religous sentiments, lets do common sense like you rightly suggested.

The question is, Does Isreal have the right to defend itself?

Yes.

McKren:

Does the call for fundamental human right exclude Isreals right to life and existence?

Lets hear your views on these questions.

No.

I am very sure that for the simple fact that I am a practicing christian I cannot be accused of siding with the muslims so the issue of religous sentiments don't hold water.

My position remains that any bad or wrong action must be acknowledged regardless of the person, group or nation responsible.

Afam:

Considering the fact that you advised others to ignore him and went ahead to repeat what they did which you considered was responsible for giving too much publicity then you make yourself the biggest hypocrite and sycophant of our time.

Discuss? With you? You are own your own oo as I have already made it clear that people should not be held responsible for your limit level of comprehension, this forum can not be a substitute for real education.

my dear u make too much inconsequential noise considering you dont even know what a sycophant is!

Let's take it from Mckren's question and deal with this issue as adults. Your childishness is bothering on disgusting.

.

Afam

I am very sure that for the simple fact that I am a practicing christian I cannot be accused of siding with the muslims so the issue of religous sentiments don't hold water.

It does hold water because I think you are arguing along this lines because you are a christain and want to be seen as someone who speaks the truth regardless of religous linings. But I think you are trying too hard.

Palestine is not Iraq, I share your views in Iraq but not palestine.

This is exactly why sometimes I accuse of political correctness.

My position remains that any bad or wrong action must be acknowledged regardless of the person, group or nation responsible.

Well you are arguing along the lines of ethical do's and don'ts. But unfortunately that is not the case here. The issue here is a Nations right to protecting its security and territorial integrity in the face of war. The dos and donts of ethics apply in the Ideal world when all things are equal not at the middle of a war.
Palestineans voted a terrorist organisations whose most significant election manifesto is to wage a war against Isreal, in essence they voted for war. They are simply facing the consequesnces of war. There is no need for Propaganda.

@Mckren,

Thanks for the wonderful comments. You are indeed addressing the issues.

What are my views about Palestine if I may ask so as to be certain we are on the same page because I very much doubt it?

Enjoy!

Afam,
i will suggest you stop starting topics that you cannot defend.
trace any topic that i have started here and ask me any question on it and i will surely answer it to the best of my knowledge.
the issue of copy and paste is not educating. each an everyone of us has email address of which we can subscrbe for free news letters and post twenty threads here on daily bases.
all you choose in all your thread is to reply to insults from any angle even raise more insults to other parties.
even from the begining of this thread, you started with insult.
isreal and western world stopped the palestine funds because of the position of the hamas led government which does not believe that isreal has a right to exist but today, abbas in his wisdom has disolved to an extent the hamas pm and of which palestine government by a way has recognised isreal as a nation and right to exist hence the release of the funds.
a child who says his mother will not sleep would as well not sleep.
i want you to re-visit my numerious questions and answer them one after the other.
do not think or consider yourself popular and by the way there is negative and positive popularity.
on my own i think u are notorious because of the way u insult people here.
since u claim to a practicing christain and an inpartial umpire, then reffer us to any of your posts which has condem anything about al-qaeda, hamas or hezeboulah or your wisest president(iran president)

How many times will one tell this slowpoke to leave Afam out of his incoherent and silly thinking?

Guy, take a cold beer and mix it with otapiapia so you can relax.

I will rather watch cartoon than pay any attention to your confused and incoherent analysis based on unadultrated religous bigotry.

Get a life or jump into the nearest lake, you disgust me.

Afam on June 25:

We still hope that many will ultimately use discussion forums to learn more about issues they don't fully comprehend instead of fighting and abusing people that choose not to believe their half baked information.

Afam on June 27:

How many times will one tell this slowpoke to leave Afam out of his incoherent and silly thinking?
Guy, take a cold beer and mix it with otapiapia so you can relax.
I will rather watch cartoon than pay any attention to your confused and incoherent analysis based on unadultrated religous bigotry.
Get a life or jump into the nearest lake, you disgust me

Pure comedy

what makes it even more hilarious is that unlike Tornadoz who at least manages to stand truth on its head Afam makes absolutely no attempt to even address the issues. I think he is perpetually angry! Even the muslims i tease constantly still make out time to laugh over a couple of jokes.
Haba oga Afam, take style laugh small! Na forum no be ya papa bedroom.

@I-man/4Play,

With zero credibility your posts are meaningless so don't try to salvage anything as you are pure fraud.

davidylan:

what makes it even more hilarious is that unlike Tornadoz who at least manages to stand truth on its head Afam makes absolutely no attempt to even address the issues. I think he is perpetually angry! Even the muslims i tease constantly still make out time to laugh over a couple of jokes.
Haba oga Afam, take style laugh small! Na forum no be ya papa bedroom.

Do not reference my father in any of your silly comments or jokes or else I will respond in kind.

Do you tease muslims or you insult them? You boldly stated that the muslims worship idol and you call that teasing?

You are certainly worse than an islamic fundamentalist because you lie about your position and shamelessly too.

lol the same old worn out predictable response.