Etinosa1234:
Samuel Johnson (an indigenous historian) gave two accounts of Oduduwa as at early 20th century and never claimed that Oduduwa was from ife

“1”: This is not a historical account, but rather a mythological narrative aimed to glamorize and deify the person of Oduduwa.

The parallel of this narrative in Benin kingdom is the mythical narrative of a certain Igodo who is said, in Benin accounts, to be the progenitor of Benin’s first monarchy.

The Benin account of his roots has it that he had came into Benin-City from the sky. This account is apparently non-historical — hence a mythological narrative.

The historical Benin account of his roots, however, states that he is a real human being who came from Ife on a mission to rule over ‘Benin’.

These two accounts aren’t contradictory for the basic and obvious reason that they serve two different purposes. While one is obviously intended as an hyperbole, the other is obviously intended as a literal historical information.

The account that Oduduwa came from ife is recent revisionism

I don't even know when Benin had an official account that says we came from ife

TAO11:
This is so revealing! I never knew. /s lol!

First of all, the extensively widespread Yoruba account (shown in your first attachment) that Oduduwa is a son of God sent from heaven to Ife, etc. is obvious enough as a non-historical account.

In fact, S. Johnson himself made that clear (on that page of your first attachment) that this is a mythological narrative rather than a historical account. As a gentle reminder, what we’re examining here are historical accounts.

I have discussed this contrast in details in one of my earlier comments on this page. You may refer to the box below for quick guidance on that:


Regarding the second account (shown in your second attachment), my initial comment goes thus: If by your phrase “an indigenous historian” you meant that Johnson is a Yoruba man who gathered accounts that speak of his people, then your usage is correct.

But if by this phrase you meant that the Middle-East story in his book is actually of Yoruba origination; then your phrase is ignorantly false.

Having said that, Samuel Johnson himself made it clear that the oldest traceable origination of this Middle-East story is in the writings of Sultan Bello of Sokoto which he was only able to access via Captain Clapperton.

Your second attachment is taken from page 3 of S. Johnson's work. If you had bothered to go down some two more pages, then you would have found where Johnson continued and clarified that the oldest known root of this Middle-East story is from Sultan Bello of Sokoto.

On this, Rev. Samuel Johnson writes (quoting Captain Clapperton’s extract of Sultan Bello’s story) and I quote here:

“The only written record we have on this subject is that of the Sultan Belo of Sokoto, the founder of that city, the most learned if not the most powerful of the Fulani sovereigns that ever bore rule in the Soudan.

Capt. Clapperton (Travels and Discoveries in Northern and Central Africa, 1822—1824) made the acquaintance of this monarch. From a large geographical and historical work by him, Capt. Clapperton made a copious extract, from which the following is taken :-- “Yarba is an extensive province containing rivers, forests, sands and mountains, as also a great many wonderful and extraordinary things. In it, the talking green bird called babaga (parrot) is found.”

“By the side of this province there is an anchorage or harbor for the ships of the Christians, who used to go there and purchase slaves. These slaves were exported from our country and sold to the people of Yarba, who resold them to the Christians.”

“The inhabitants of this province (Yarba) it is supposed originated from the remnant of the children of Canan, who were of the tribe of Nimrod. The cause of their establishment in the West of Africa was, as it is stated, in consequence of their being driven by Yar-rooba, son of Kahtan, out of Arabia to the Western Coast between Egypt and Abyssinia. From that spot they advanced into the interior of Africa, till they reach Yarba where they fixed their residence. On their way they left in every place they stopped at, a tribe of their own people. Thus it is supposed that all the tribes of the Soudan who inhabit the mountains are originated from them as also are the inhabitants of Ya-ory. Upon the whole, the people of Yarba are nearly of the same description as those of Noofee (Nupe)*”“

~ Rev. Samuel Johnson, “The History of the Yorubas”, Completed 1897, Published 1921, pp. 5-6.


Make sure to read up on what “revisionism” means, and then supplement such understanding with my antepenultimate comment — particularly where I touched on this same idea.

Well, if your use of “we” here means that you are a member of the royal family of Benin Kingdom, then the “official” account of Benin kingdom states that your ancestors are originally Ife-Yoruba people.

Refer to pages 65-78 of Dmitri M. Bondarenko, “Advent of the Second (Oba) Dynasty: Another Assessment of a Benin History Key Point,” History in Africa, 2003, Vol. 30.

But if your parents are not born of the Benin royalty, then you may not really bother about any such "official" account of Benin Kingdom.

On a side note however, the origin of the Binis generally is given as follows in one of Chief Eghrevba’s works:

“Many centuries ago, the Binis came from Egypt in one of those migrations common to many tribes seeking more fertile land or a more secure retreat from an enemy. They halted a while in Sudan, then at Ife whence they came to this land.”

~ J. U. Egarevba, “The Origin of Benin”, 1954, p. 6.

Cheers!

Cc: gomojam, Amujale, macof, babtoundey, scoles0, Balogunodua, SaintBeehot, reallest, talktrue1234, Gratefulheart1, DenreleDave, Newton85

samuk:
[s]Why all these epistle when the summary of what you are trying to say is.
1. Yoruba early accounts of the origin of Oduduwa says he was a mythical figure.

2. Saudi Arabia origin of Oduduwa, but there are no records of this in Saudi Arabia

3. Benin Origin of Oduduwa

4. Ife 2010 origin of Oduduwa.

None of the above have an historical backing. Oduduwa was nothing but myth.

Everyone parading themselves as children of Oduduwa today, killed, sacrificed and sold each other into slavery pre-1800.

Stop digging yourself into a bigger hole. Oduduwa was a mythical figure.[/s]

TAO11:
LMAO! All I see is a pained and insecure lad who dared not present a case against even one of my arguments, thereby affirming them implicitly. Haha

Anyways, thank you for admitting publicly that you could not possibly muster a single come-back to address even one of my arguments. Keep it up lad!

Having now implicitly admitted that your diatribe and delusion have been debunked, may you now confirm to me if the following individuals are truly mere fictional cartoons (rather than real human beings) as some Binis have being suggesting lately:

Eweka I, Uwakhuahen, Henmihen, Ewedo, Oguola, Edoni, Udagbedo, Ohen, Egbeka, Orobiru, Uwaifiokun, Ewuare I, among others.

I hope to hear from you on this in due course. Thank you!

Cheers!

Cc: gomojam, Amujale, macof, babtoundey, scholes0, Balogunodua, SaintBeehot, reallest, talktrue1234, Gratefulheart1, DenreleDave, Newton85

samuk:


You have no argument, Oduduwa is a myth according to Yoruba early historical accounts....see S. Johnson, if you believe otherwise, you can carry on debating myth with yourself, I thought you have grown beyond that.

Ideadoctor:
great historical figures are mythified to add glory to their glory,take for example, the great Macedonian king Alexander the great who conquered all empires, was mythified at the apex of His greatness, it is rumored that he is the son of Olympus one of the Greek deities, and their are a lot of stories about him that are more mythical than historical, but that does change the fact that he once lived as a man,oduduwa is not an exception, Yorubas are one of the largest tribes in Africa, spreading from Nigeria as far as Sierra Leone, and yet they believe that they descended or have affinity with oduduwa, if oduduwa is not real his name would not have Been popular so fae

samuk:


Samuel Johnson in his book which has already been provided talked about Oduduwa being a myth and the Oduduwa Saudi Arabia origin which Tao said was the creation of the Sultan of Sokoto.

The Sultan of Sokoto sold the Yoruba a dummy by turning Your mythical Oduduwa into a historical figure from Saudi Arabia in other to make it easy to convert the Yoruba to Islam

All Yoruba muslims (more than half Yoruba population and their Obas) today have the Sultan of Sokoto as their spiritual leader/head not the Ooni.

The Yoruba only woke up in 2010 to realised the political and spiritual implications of what Sultan Belo did in the 1800s and decided to author a book linking the mythical Oduduwa to Ife but the damage has already been done. How are you going to convince Yoruba muslims who take spiritual directives from Sultan of Sokoto not to do so.

More than half Yoruba population is under the spiritual and political leadership of the Sokoto caliphate and I don't see this changing soon.

The Hausa/Fulani you call illiterates have always be ahead of you. Being able to write in English language doesn't make you clever and smart.

Ideadoctor:
anyways, if oduduwa is a myth,then why did Benin tradition says oranmiyan the first oba of Benin is a son of oduduwa, and why do Benin people celebrate oduduwa festival? perhaps, Edo elders are dumb too,to believe oduduwa is an historical figure, you said Yoruba Muslims pledge their allegiance to the sultan instead of the Ooni,your knowledge is limited just as I have said earlier, Yorubas wherever and whatever they recognized their source they are born like that, Edo folks like you can not use religion to divide our people, before I became a Christian I was born a Yoruba, that is how Yoruba think,they value humanity rather than religion, because religion is actually preaching humanity, Yorubas today are educated, intelligent and smart,the success of operation Amotekun shows how united Yoruba people can be if they are threatened, either Muslim, Christian, ATR,they come together and fight off aggressors,any Yoruba that is extreme in his religion till the extent that he forget his source is viewed as an slowpoke, deformed and a bastard by the Yoruba society, forget bro,you can't use religion to divide the Yoruba nation,we are wiser than that, Yoruba Christian, Yoruba Muslims, Yoruba ATr,we are one

Ideadoctor:
anyways, if oduduwa is a myth,then why did Benin tradition says oranmiyan the first oba of Benin is a son of oduduwa, and why do Benin people celebrate oduduwa festival? perhaps, Edo elders are dumb too,to believe oduduwa is an historical figure, you said Yoruba Muslims pledge their allegiance to the sultan instead of the Ooni,your knowledge is limited just as I have said earlier, Yorubas wherever and whatever they recognized their source they are born like that, Edo folks like you can not use religion to divide our people, before I became a Christian I was born a Yoruba, that is how Yoruba think,they value humanity rather than religion, because religion is actually preaching humanity, Yorubas today are educated, intelligent and smart,the success of operation Amotekun shows how united Yoruba people can be if they are threatened, either Muslim, Christian, ATR,they come together and fight off aggressors,any Yoruba that is extreme in his religion till the extent that he forget his source is viewed as an slowpoke, deformed and a bastard by the Yoruba society, forget bro,you can't use religion to divide the Yoruba nation,we are wiser than that, Yoruba Christian, Yoruba Muslims, Yoruba ATr,we are one

gregyboy:



Oduduwa is a myth to benin and never came here
I dont know if he is a myth to yorubas though he is but that is not my concern


Oduduwa or oromiyan never ventured to benin prove it with an 1800 document

gregyboy:

What is oduduwa festival

Ideadoctor:
don't ever say that at the hear of Oba of Benin, he would certainly curse you, you are trying to call him a bastard who doesn't know his father

gregyboy:



The oba of benin history says oduduwa is from benin, yet you spilling nonsense


Maybe because your ancestors is not from ife so you can troll since it doesn't concern really concern you

gregyboy:



The oba of benin history says oduduwa is from benin, yet you spilling nonsense


Maybe because your ancestors is not from ife so you can troll since it doesn't concern really concern you

Ideadoctor:



let Oni of ife stand and let Oba of Benin stand, and let see if oba of Benin will say what you claim he said, Ooni is the spiritual fathee of all those who share affinity with ife including Benin

samuk:


The late Oba of Benin told the late Ooni of Ife that Oduduwa was from Benin and the current Oba of Benin told the current Ooni, Emir of Kanu, Sultan of Sokoto and the entire world during his coronation that Oranmiyan was a Benin prince. Look for the Oba of Benin coronation speech on YouTube and listen to it yourself.

Whose spiritual father is the Ooni? Oba of Lagos recognises the Oba of Benin as his father not the Ooni, look of the video of Oba of saying so during the one year anniversary of the coronation of oba of Benin on YouTube.

Olugbo, Awujale don't recognise Ooni as their superior let alone spiritual father, you are living in a dream land.

The Ooni is not even Tinubu spiritual father, as a Muslim, the Sultan of Sokoto is Tinubu's spiritual father if you really know the meaning of spiritual father.

Ideadoctor:



let Oni of ife stand and let Oba of Benin stand, and let see if oba of Benin will say what you claim he said, Ooni is the spiritual fathee of all those who share affinity with ife including Benin

Ideadoctor:
.




dey there

TAO11:
LMAO! All I see is a pained and insecure lad who dared not present a case against even one of my arguments, thereby affirming them implicitly. Haha

Anyways, thank you for admitting publicly that you could not possibly muster a single come-back to address even one of my arguments. Keep it up lad!

Having now implicitly admitted that your diatribe and delusion have been debunked, may you now confirm to me if the following individuals are truly mere fictional cartoons (rather than real human beings) as some Binis have being suggesting lately:

Eweka I, Uwakhuahen, Henmihen, Ewedo, Oguola, Edoni, Udagbedo, Ohen, Egbeka, Orobiru, Uwaifiokun, Ewuare I, among others.

I hope to hear from you on this in due course. Thank you!

Cheers!

Cc: gomojam, Amujale, macof, babtoundey, scholes0, Balogunodua, SaintBeehot, reallest, talktrue1234, Gratefulheart1, DenreleDave, Newton85

gregyboy:


You're sleeping you don't even know if your ancestors is from ife....

samuk:
You have no argument, Oduduwa is a myth according to Yoruba early historical accounts....see S. Johnson,

if you believe otherwise, you can carry on debating myth with yourself, I thought you have grown beyond that. Samuel Johnson in his book which has already been provided talked about Oduduwa being a myth

and the Oduduwa Saudi Arabia origin which you said was the creation of the Sultan of Sokoto.

The Sultan of Sokoto sold the Yoruba dummy by turning Your mythical Oduduwa into an historical figure from Saudi Arabia in other to make it easy to convert the Yoruba to Islam

The Yoruba only woke up in 2010 to realised the political and spiritual implications of what Sultan Belo did in the 1800s and decided to author a book linking the mythical Oduduwa to Ife but the damage has already been done.

How are you going to convince Yoruba muslims who take spiritual directives from Sultan of Sokoto not to do so. More than half Yoruba population is under the spiritual and political leadership of the Sokoto caliphate and I don't see this changing soon. All Yoruba muslims (more than half Yoruba population and their Obas) today have the Sultan of Sokoto as their spiritual leader/head not the Ooni

The Hausa/Fulani you call illiterates have always be ahead of you. Being able to write in English language doesn't make you clever and smart.

samuk:


You have no argument, Oduduwa is a myth according to Yoruba early historical accounts....see S. Johnson, if you believe otherwise, you can carry on debating myth with yourself, I thought you have grown beyond that.

Samuel Johnson in his book which has already been provided talked about Oduduwa being a myth and the Oduduwa Saudi Arabia origin which you said was the creation of the Sultan of Sokoto.

The Sultan of Sokoto sold the Yoruba dummy by turning Your mythical Oduduwa into an historical figure from Saudi Arabia in other to make it easy to convert the Yoruba to Islam

All Yoruba muslims (more than half Yoruba population and their Obas) today have the Sultan of Sokoto as their spiritual leader/head not the Ooni.

The Yoruba only woke up in 2010 to realised the political and spiritual implications of what Sultan Belo did in the 1800s and decided to author a book linking the mythical Oduduwa to Ife but the damage has already been done. How are you going to convince Yoruba muslims who take spiritual directives from Sultan of Sokoto not to do so.

More than half Yoruba population is under the spiritual and political leadership of the Sokoto caliphate and I don't see this changing soon.

The Hausa/Fulani you call illiterates have always be ahead of you. Being able to write in English language doesn't make you clever and smart.

gregyboy:



Oduduwa is a myth to benin and never came here
I dont know if he is a myth to yorubas though he is but that is not my concern


Oduduwa or oromiyan never ventured to benin prove it with an 1800 document