The Jerusalem Shopkeeper's Assertion: What Really (matters In) Religion. - Religion (2) - Nairaland
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| Re: The Jerusalem Shopkeeper's Assertion: What Really (matters In) Religion. by JeSoul(f): 8:39pm On Mar 25, 2011 |
vescucci:Seconded (or is it thirded by now?  )There might very well be a 'way' but it is not a religion.My movie buff, I know you will get this . . . recall Nicholas Cage in the movie National Treasure. They find the map to the treasure, but need to find a way to read the map. They locate the cypher in the museum - it translates to the location of a pair of glasses. They locate the glasses and look through it at the map: Gates - It says "Heere at the wall" Riley - That's it? I thought the glasses were a way to read the map? Gates - No. The glasses were a way - to find a way - to read the map Riley (frustrated) - why can't they just say "here's the treasure, spend wisely?" lol. Hope I haven't confused you. Religion is a way - to find the way - to God. At least that's what I think. We would much rather be like Riley and have the answers directly in front of us but God chose otherwise for us. The finding of religion itself will not get you to God (as we have all agreed). At the center of it all, is Faith, an inherent knowledge of God, when one recognizes it and the recognition of it reflects in how they live their lives (sin, love, God etc), God approves of them. And when instead they choose to "sear of their conscience" or supress this God implanted knowledge, He disapproves. So I don't think an "atheist" can still be "accepted by God" - the atheist has afterall rejected God and the evidence of Him all around us completely. ^at least depending on how much authority you want to ascribe to the bible  . I've chosen to believe it. Though I concede my comprehension of it is far far from 10% talkless of 100%. This much I know, is that we were made for God (shout out to Dulcet and the manufacturer bit), to do the work of God here on earth. You (uhm Vesc) asked D7 about after here then what? hmm . . . na by Faith I go take answer this kweshtion, so indulge me a bit. I believe that "there/next" will be the fruition of here - for us to dwell with God as He intended. If you think about it, according to christianity no one really "dies", its a transition into the next phase - and which phase depends on what happened in this stage. I do believe in a judgement. Beyond that, I believe a Just and Righteous God must judge and accord sentences according to the crimes. Would any of us respect a judge who let a serial killer go free under the guise of 'mercy'? Which to me is the most beautiful thing about Christ. He presents a way of salvation - redemption - that does not rest on our "performance" here on earth - but rather our Faith in God - and how this Faith manifested itself in our lives - regardless of how often or hard we fell short. . . . I don ramble finish. Make u no vex jare. |
| Re: The Jerusalem Shopkeeper's Assertion: What Really (matters In) Religion. by DeepSight(m): 8:58pm On Mar 25, 2011 |
^^^ Salutations. Re: the last bit of your post above - if that was the case then there would be no need for us to have come into the world at all. These are tellingly contradictory - JeSoul: Which to me is the most beautiful thing about Christ. He presents a way of salvation - redemption - that does not rest on our "performance" here on earth . . . |
| Re: The Jerusalem Shopkeeper's Assertion: What Really (matters In) Religion. by JeSoul(f): 9:04pm On Mar 25, 2011 |
^Salutay back sir. Deep Sight:Ah! but read it again - and finish the sentence. The "why are we here" is the question many much more smarter people than I have been asking for ages. I'm only attempting to represent the biblical/christian perspective. We are here to serve God and each other - what we "do" (Faith, faith, faith!) here will determine where we will be headed to next. |
| Re: The Jerusalem Shopkeeper's Assertion: What Really (matters In) Religion. by JeSoul(f): 9:19pm On Mar 25, 2011 |
vescucci:yikity yikes! Vesc . . . this height that you have set for me, I no fit reach am at all at all oh  Hmmm. It seems you're God sent. About two years ago I finally had the courage to admit to myself the things I believed and the things I did not. Initially, I felt so liberated and I was excited. But afterwards were trying times for me. I wonder if I lost or gained in my new outlook. I don't feel that connection with God like I did before even though it was on a placebo. That's why I think religion is immaterial to one's relationship with God. But religion can also do a lot of harm. Because it is dogmatic and fatal to one's faculty of reasoning. Almost no religious argument makes any sense. Mostly there're based on a faulty premise or assumption. I totally get trying to know God on one's terms. I was conscious of this, that I might be too empirical about my spirituality. But when I see some people talking about their fantastic beliefs, I get a little pissed cuz they look down on other people's beliefs which are just as fantastic as their own and sometimes even less so. What I'm trying to say is religion, with a sincere heart, may be a good means to an end but can never be the end in itself.Thanks for sharing this V. I understand the "knowing God on your own terms" bit . . . the part I tussle with is we all know 'above all the heart is deceitfully wicked'. We can deceive ourselves  and even be sincere in this self-imposed deception. Its a sobering thought. And should be a humbling thought for all of us. Even the brightest of "spiritual superstars" (© Dulcet) can get it wrong in the basic things . . . God is no respecter of persons like we are - and thankfully so! At the end of the day, mama sunday may end up having a tighter grasp of the true gospel than Martin Luther.In all . . . just continue to search and seek God. I do believe He rewards all who do so in diligence and sincerity of heart. How awesome it is you don't have to explain yourself to Him. He already knows the motives and thoughts of the deepest of hearts - that alone should be a comforting, reassuring thought - I know it is to me. . . . I have talked too much today. Oya next pesin carry go. |
| Re: The Jerusalem Shopkeeper's Assertion: What Really (matters In) Religion. by PastorAIO: 9:30pm On Mar 25, 2011 |
Oga Deepsight, I no know say you vex for me like that. I was referring to the fact that you were always accusing me of inconsistency in my position. It did not require a whole phd thesis to rebutt me. Haba!! If the core doctrines of christianity that you outlined are really core doctrines of christianity then that would mean that Jehovah's witnesses were not christians. They don't believe in trinity, or the oneness of Jesus with God. In fact that would mean that those 'christians' before the doctrine of trinity was judged to be acceptable were not christians. If Original sin from Adam were a core christian doctrine then that means that there were no christians before St. Augustine of Hippo formulated the doctrine. menh, the way I see it we can keep making up core doctrines till we go blue in the face. It becomes totally arbitrary which notions we then consider to be the core doctrines of our faith which everybody claiming to be one with us must believe. Even muslim 5 pillars are not across the board. Unless you want to say that the Iranians are not muslems. Even within one church you'll find doctrinal differences. As long as human beings have independent minds then they'll independently come up with various doctrines. Now when you consider this: How creative the human mind is, how inventive, how resourceful? Then does it not make you stagger that there are any similarities at all between religions. Like I said before, if you don't stagger then you simply haven't been drinking enough. But I didn't know that the issues of that thread stuck with you so much that you have now dragged it across this vast expanse of time and cyber space, kicking and screaming, into this thread. Which one now? That was not the only thread in which you challenged me for being inconsistent. I was referring to a more general trait of our interactions, not that thread specifically. Abeg now Deepsight, cool down for me. Sebi we be padi? No dey vex for me like that now. |
| Re: The Jerusalem Shopkeeper's Assertion: What Really (matters In) Religion. by Sweetnecta: 9:50pm On Mar 25, 2011 |
@Dulcet17; Goggle search hadith of Muhammad [as] that says anyone who hears about me, or Islam or Allah and does not begin to concern himself to know the truth, has leaned towards disbelief. Quranic verse that says Islam is the only accepted way for mankind, chosen by Allah. Other ways [religions] are henceforth unacceptable. If a man lived in the time of Moses, but insisted to believe Noah and disbelieve Moses, such a man has disbelieved Noah as well. The correct way to believe Noah in the time of Moses, was through Moses [what Moses says about him in general and what he says is still relevant about Noah. it will make no sense if such a man saw Moses crossing the sea on foot, but decided to row a canoe instead as in the time of Noah]. Similarly, it is Muhammad's way that leads directly to Allah the Almighty, today instead of Moses or Jesus or any old time prophet [AS]. those who reject Muhammad today have in actuality rejected the prophet the claim to follow, except that they do not realize their error[s]. Could you define what direct prophet[hood] from God Almighty is? Use Moses or Jesus, or Noah or Abraham if you agree that each was a prophet. What book did each receive to preach? Or what did each preach? Were their teaching essential the same, rooted in the sole worship of God? After all Jesuss worshiped God Almighty and even cried to Him? Is there any god other than God? |
| Re: The Jerusalem Shopkeeper's Assertion: What Really (matters In) Religion. by DeepSight(m): 9:53pm On Mar 25, 2011 |
Pastor AIO: Excellent. Cardinally articulated. Now take a moment and read again the above. Recognise that it simply shows that which i have tried to put across: namely that religious doctrines are dissimilar! For the very reason that these very dotrines you have artiulated vary from sect to sect. Now it is you and I that contend that Love is all that matters. Many contend that too. Nonetheless we must be sincere in acceding that the vast majority of the Christian world regard such elements as the trinity and redemption by the sacrifice on the cross to be absolutely central to Christian doctrine! Particularly redemption by the sacrifice on the cross! - Nor can you deny - even by a reading of the bible - that that dotrine is central to Christian thought. I needn't be tempted to produce the quote where you advised me that the redemption by cricifixion was a sacred rite completed before the founding of the world. You therefore may not deny that that is a core christian teaching. Pray, tell me where such a dotrine may be found in Judaism, Islam, Busshism or Hinduism? That is the point i seek to make. Aside that, i very well understand and accept the obvious common threads of truth: such as the common adjuration towards human love and brotherhood. Abeg now Deepsight, cool down for me. Sebi we be padi? No dey vex for me like that now. Your repeated snub notwithstanding, I am the richer for interacting with you sir. |
| Re: The Jerusalem Shopkeeper's Assertion: What Really (matters In) Religion. by vescucci(m): 10:05pm On Mar 25, 2011 |
First, I have to salute some posts. This thread is turning out to be really something. Deep Sight: To borrow Dulcet's method: +75. Mad_Max likes to say no religion has a monopoly on truth. Which is to stress the fact that you can't rest on your laurels because you're a Muslim, Christian or whatever. You are still kinda charged with the task of 'poke-nosing' into other faiths and ideas to get a full picture, or as close as you can get to a full picture. Where I am different is that I believe that whilst many religions contain truths, they're not necessarily truths descended from God. Anyone coulda said love your neighbour as yourself or give to the needy or any of those cool stuff. I believe if we follow our moral compass, we know what's right and what's wrong. Some people are good even when they do wrong because they do it for the right reasons and some are evil when they do good cuz they do it for the wrong reasons. Only God knows about all that. We're to try our best. |
| Re: The Jerusalem Shopkeeper's Assertion: What Really (matters In) Religion. by vescucci(m): 10:17pm On Mar 25, 2011 |
JeSoul: +200! You're right. I will get you. I've really never thought of it this way and I'll chew this cud wey you give me well well. Though, I'll modify thus: Religion can be a way - to find the way - to God. This is because I believe religions are man made and God didn't intend for us to be doing good and not doing bad because we fear hell or covet heaven. He wants us to do stuff and not do stuff because our it's our nature. Which brings me to something you said about the human heart being deceitful (evil). I think so, but not completely. I like to think we're both intrinsically good and evil and what really makes us is the path we choose to follow. Given that the evil road is way easier, more of us are evil. But I don't think any human being is hundred percent evil as we all agree none is hundred percent good. But I digress. |
| Re: The Jerusalem Shopkeeper's Assertion: What Really (matters In) Religion. by vescucci(m): 10:24pm On Mar 25, 2011 |
JeSoul: This is touchy ground like Deepsight surmised o. Because the Christian idea of salvation is exactly like letting a serial killer go free under the guise of mercy (due to repentance). I'm not disagreeing with this per se. It's precisely the reason why I don't believe in classical hell. It's just unfair. Nothing one can do can deserve that punishment. What I think though, does not in any way affect what truth and reality is because no one can ever really know. We all say what we think and believe is consistent with the nature of God one is comfortable with. For all I know, God may really be a trinity and everything I find hard to believe may be true. |
| Re: The Jerusalem Shopkeeper's Assertion: What Really (matters In) Religion. by vescucci(m): 10:30pm On Mar 25, 2011 |
JeSoul: The bolded is what Dulcet has been trying to say and the way you put makes me warm inside. And which height? I just put a footstool in front of you to start climbing, you dey say height. You're welcome even though that is watered down stuff. |
| Re: The Jerusalem Shopkeeper's Assertion: What Really (matters In) Religion. by Sweetnecta: 10:50pm On Mar 25, 2011 |
@Dulcet17; Nowhere in Taurah of Moses or Injil of Jesus will you find God saying to the prophet, your religion is Judaism or Christianity. Allah says in the Quran that Islam is the religion He ordains on us all. He says that Abraham was neither a Jew nor Christian, but a Hanifan muslima, upright in his worship of One God, Allah. www.islamicfinder.org/articles/article.php?id=1004&lang= - Cached “Abu Hurairah (May Allah be pleased with him) narrated that Allah’s Messenger (p.b.u.h.) said, ‘By Him in Whose Hand is the life of Muhammad, he amongst the community of Jews or Christians hears about me; but does not affirm his belief in that with which I have been sent (i.e., Islam) and dies in his state (of disbelief), he shall be but one of the denizens of Hell-Fire.’” (Muslim 1/ 284) islamworld.net/true.html - Cached - Similar "This day have I perfected your religion for you, completed My favour upon you, and have chosen for you Islam as your religion". (Soorah Al-Maa'idah 5:3) "If anyone desires a religion other than Islam (submission to Allah (God) never will It be accepted of Him" (Soorah Aal'imraan 3:85) "Abraham was not a Jew nor Christian; but an upright Muslim." (Soorah Aal'imraan 3:67) The Prophet (PBUH) reported that Allah said, "I created my servants in the right religion but devils made them go astray". The Prophet (PBUH) also said, "Each child is born in a state of "Fitrah", then his parents make him a Jew, Christian or a Zoroastrian, the way an animal gives birth to a normal offspring. Have you noticed any that were born mutilated?" (Collected by Al-Bukhaaree and Muslim) Thus, the final Prophet of Islam is reported to have said, "Any one who says: There is no god but Allah and dies holding that (belief) will enter paradise".(Reported by Abu Dharr and collected by Al-Bukhaaree and Muslim). |
| Re: The Jerusalem Shopkeeper's Assertion: What Really (matters In) Religion. by DeepSight(m): 11:12pm On Mar 25, 2011 |
vescucci: Post of the year 2011. Bros, you sabi. |
| Re: The Jerusalem Shopkeeper's Assertion: What Really (matters In) Religion. by Sweetnecta: 11:48pm On Mar 25, 2011 |
@Dulcet17; « #18 on: Yesterday at 07:32:32 PM » [Quote]Quote from: Pastor AIO on Yesterday at 05:29:04 PM Since I've been on Nairaland I have seen anyone mirror my standpoint so precisely and yet say it so differently. I especially like the term Inaugural objective. It was this question that I asked on the Islam section in different terms. I asked how the practice of the 5 pillars can bring anyone to the state of Al-Fitra. Till today I have not received an answer. If your religious practice does not bring you to that pure state then how can you claim to be practicing a pure religion. I like to place the emphasis on Practice. And sometimes our practice can be faulty and not lead to 'optimisation'. Also when you say 'some religions carry out functions that detract rather than sustain the global objective' I am assuming that you are referring to religions as organisations, not in the ideology itself.[/Quote]Fitra is natural inclination based on original knowledge. Allah is the One Who impacted or gave that "Fitra'" on man and makes it a compulsory and testimony of human acceptance of His Godship, instead of associating anyone with Him [the trinity, idol worship, or leadership worship are clear examples] or rejection of His Presence or Existence [Agnostic or Atheism are example]. Allah says in the Quran that He took the souls of the children of Adam from his loin and says to them 'Am I not your Lord that you should worship, alone?" They all affirm that Allah is their Lord without any other. Allah then says that He took this oath from us so that we will have no excuse against Him. Allah then made Adam our father a prophet, on himself, his wife and all his family on earth, teaching them to seek forgiveness when they transgress, as he and his mate sort forgiveness of their only sin. Allah turned to him and his mate in Mercy. Hence, he remained in the fitra, along with those who sort forgiveness unlike Cain who killed his brother and nowhere was he mentioned to turn to Allah for forgiveness. Satan also continues to pile up sins and engaged in mischief in leading humans to sinfulness, whereby many more dies on the errors without seeking forgiveness which is readily available from Allah. As the religion of Islam is now complete on the last messenger with the five pillars, as you rightly said, the most important which is the most natural inclination of them is the first; There is no deity worthy of worship except Allah The Almighty, Alone. If a person believes this at least from the age of puberty, this is the time of record beginning, such a person is a true muslim, remaining on the fitra of the oath that he swore/bore to Allah in his state of heavenly spirit/soul without the earthly body. Such a person will have natural inert disposition to be conscious of Allah, and eager to obey Him. Hence part of that obedience is making the prescribed daily salah; action that Allah says will prevent a sincere worshiper from evil deeds and loving to do good deeds in reverence of Allah. Charity brings in the heart of the giver the ability to detach from excessive love of worldly possession, knowing fully well that the return is to Allah. Fasting helps the one who is observing it to feel the condition of those who are without, not by choice of fasting but by lack of not having. Hajj is a way to meet other muslims not just from your immediate community, pointing out to the ujaj [hajji] that the community of believers extends and includes many colors and hues. Allah of the above really in obedience to Allah, which is based on the Fitra established on mankind when the oath was witnessed. The belief in God as the first in the five pillars have at least over 70 levels or branches. The least is removing harmful things from the pathway so that people do not get injured. Yet there are 6 article of faith; Belief [in] Unseen God, The Angels, The pure revealed books, all messengers and prophets of God, Day of Judgment [Paradise and Hell] and divine decree [the good and the not so good]. When you observe the natural instinct of babies to imitate a praying muslim, you will know what is meant by Al Fitra being inert in mankind based on the oath already taken in our spiritual form. |
| Re: The Jerusalem Shopkeeper's Assertion: What Really (matters In) Religion. by Dulcet7(m): 9:25am On Mar 26, 2011 |
JeSoul: Yes, Jessy. This is exactly what I am saying. Religion is the surface of an object, and this object in itself is a way that binds us back to God. This is just the way you also put it, succinctly: Religion is a way [b]to find the way to reconnect to God. JeSoul: |
| Re: The Jerusalem Shopkeeper's Assertion: What Really (matters In) Religion. by Dulcet7(m): 9:29am On Mar 26, 2011 |
Dear Sweetnecta, Inasmuch as our names have the same meaning, our understanding and leanings differ greatly. But thanks for your posts above! P.S. This thread is geared to help each of us evaluate our personal religion(s), no matter what the religion is. Please note it is not a witch-hunting manoeuvre set upon any particular religion. |
| Re: The Jerusalem Shopkeeper's Assertion: What Really (matters In) Religion. by Sweetnecta: 12:43pm On Mar 26, 2011 |
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ i did not make my last post with the thought that somebody is against Islam by wanting to know what Fitra means relative to the 5 pillars of Islam. what i tried to do, and i hope that that my effort was some form of introduction to the connection that they have [fitra and the 5 pillars] was to answer the curious mind, even directing such a mind that the 6 articles of faith are part of Islam and Laa ila ha Ilallah is the most important and has over 70 levels to it. There is the concept of false hope that humans exhibit when they are in disbelief. A muslim who sells alcohol for example may say, 'after all i do not steal'. He forgets that he remains only muslim by name. but not a true believer by deeds. imagine the person who is not even a muslim, say a multi godhead worshiper. He may say that he does good and that is enough and cant see why God will punish him, forgetting that on every level he disregards God's commandments, but follows his own desire. The good he does though shall earn him benefits only on earth, without any reward of it in the day of Judgment for rejecting the Commandments of God. |
| Re: The Jerusalem Shopkeeper's Assertion: What Really (matters In) Religion. by Sweetnecta: 1:30pm On Mar 26, 2011 |
@Deepsight; « #38 on: Yesterday at 09:53:30 PM » [Quote]Quote from: Pastor AIO on Yesterday at 09:30:18 PM If the core doctrines of christianity that you outlined are really core doctrines of christianity then that would mean that Jehovah's witnesses were not christians. They don't believe in trinity, or the oneness of Jesus with God. In fact that would mean that those 'christians' before the doctrine of trinity was judged to be acceptable were not christians. Excellent. Cardinally articulated. Now take a moment and read again the above. Recognise that it simply shows that which i have tried to put across: namely that religious doctrines are dissimilar! For the very reason that these very dotrines you have artiulated vary from sect to sect. Now it is you and I that contend that Love is all that matters. Many contend that too. Nonetheless we must be sincere in acceding that the vast majority of the Christian world regard such elements as the trinity and redemption by the sacrifice on the cross to be absolutely central to Christian doctrine! Particularly redemption by the sacrifice on the cross! - Nor can you deny - even by a reading of the bible - that that dotrine is central to Christian thought. I needn't be tempted to produce the quote where you advised me that the redemption by cricifixion was a sacred rite completed before the founding of the world. You therefore may not deny that that is a core christian teaching. Pray, tell me where such a dotrine may be found in Judaism, Islam, Busshism or Hinduism? That is the point i seek to make. Aside that, i very well understand and accept the obvious common threads of truth: such as the common adjuration towards human love and brotherhood. Quote Abeg now Deepsight, cool down for me. Sebi we be padi? No dey vex for me like that now. Your repeated snub notwithstanding, I am the richer for interacting with you sir.[/Quote]I do hope that you at least feel that all the generations of humanity that passed before the cross would be considered doomed, if the crucifixion is all the only truth for salvation, forgiveness, redemption? Can The God Who set up such process by morally just to those people before the crucifixion, since there were sins recorded and acts of repentance and forgiveness were known even as early as the time of Adam [AS] and Eve? What role did the cross play in those generations or are all of them destined for hell? Why was Moses given victory over Firawn then, and what was the importance of the Taurah he was given? Id it just if the likes of Hitler who was a christian were to enter paradise for believing in the cross, while Gandhi ended up in hell without wasting a single innocent life versus Hitler with 6 millions only from the jews, not counting other? @vescucci (m); « #39 on: Yesterday at 10:05:54 PM » [Quote]First, I have to salute some posts. This thread is turning out to be really something. Quote from: Deep Sight on Yesterday at 07:52:42 PM Religion is a variegated quest for truth. However, given that it is colored by human tradition, culture, politics, warfare, and even economic considerations, Religion, and religious doctrines are diversified, notwithstanding that common themes do permeate the lot. Religion, however, is to be distinguished from TRUTH. Truth is constant. Religion is not. To borrow Dulcet's method: +75. Mad_Max likes to say no religion has a monopoly on truth. Which is to stress the fact that you can't rest on your laurels because you're a Muslim, Christian or whatever. You are still kinda charged with the task of 'poke-nosing' into other faiths and ideas to get a full picture, or as close as you can get to a full picture. Where I am different is that I believe that whilst many religions contain truths, they're not necessarily truths descended from God. Anyone could've said love your neighbour as yourself or give to the needy or any of those cool stuff. I believe if we follow our moral compass, we know what's right and what's wrong. Some people are good even when they do wrong because they do it for the right reasons and some are evil when they do good cuz they do it for the wrong reasons. Only God knows about all that. We're to try our best.[/Quote]What is the constant Truth except Guidance from God Almighty through His messengers and the books of singular core guidance directing us to consciousness of The Almighty in worship? if the messages were not essentially singular in its core, then every religion would have correct? the way to God could have been each person his/her own way, is it is just not one way alone starting from Adam and Eve, the earliest human. no everything that glitters is gold. A true message/guidance from God is often hard to accept. but such a guidance has a direct connection with was the earlier generation was guided by. We see that all books say that God is One deserving all worship, obedience, reverence, etc. Only He should be feared in what He told us to abstain from because He dislikes it. Only He should be loved, the opposite of fear. We should love to hasten to please Him in all that He commands. It is a test that will be rewarded if we obey God in even the littlest of His commandments. |
| Re: The Jerusalem Shopkeeper's Assertion: What Really (matters In) Religion. by vescucci(m): 2:03pm On Mar 26, 2011 |
I have no problem with truth that is descended directly from God. How could anybody? The problem is that there're many claimants of this correspondence with God. One woman, I think Karen Armstrong but I'm not sure, said this: It's a peculiar habit of God's that when he wishes to reveal himself to mankind, he will communicate only with a single person. The rest of mankind must learn the truth from that person and thus purchase their knowledge of the divine at the cost of subordination to another human being, who is eventually replaced by a human institution, so that the divine remains under other people's control Her position sums up mine. |
| Re: The Jerusalem Shopkeeper's Assertion: What Really (matters In) Religion. by Dulcet7(m): 2:08pm On Mar 26, 2011 |
Hello Vescucci I believe that is not so. God's truth is all around us and inside our hearts if we do not deceive ourselves, even though our understandings of natures might differ. God has succinctly made himself known to us already, but some of us need constant reminders in the form of tangible human interactions. |
| Re: The Jerusalem Shopkeeper's Assertion: What Really (matters In) Religion. by vescucci(m): 2:50pm On Mar 26, 2011 |
Yes, I agree with you, Dulcet. I'm sorry but you misunderstood me and Karen, lol. She was being sarcastic and so was I. The truth is no one should tell another the truth because we're equally equipped or handicapped to seeking out the truth. No one should merely take another person's word for it. I hope I'm clearer now. |
| Re: The Jerusalem Shopkeeper's Assertion: What Really (matters In) Religion. by Dulcet7(m): 3:23pm On Mar 26, 2011 |
 Spot on, Vescucci. Yes, the point was at first lost on me. . . Thanks for clarifying. |
| Re: The Jerusalem Shopkeeper's Assertion: What Really (matters In) Religion. by Jenwitemi(m): 4:55pm On Mar 26, 2011 |
Aaaaahh!! This forum is alive again. THANK GOD!!  |
| Re: The Jerusalem Shopkeeper's Assertion: What Really (matters In) Religion. by DeepSight(m): 6:14pm On Mar 26, 2011 |
Sweetnecta: I DONT know what you are on about. I do not believe in the crucifixion of Jesus as redemption for anybody in any form whatsoever, nor have i ever indicated such. See my views here - https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-336988.0.html |
| Re: The Jerusalem Shopkeeper's Assertion: What Really (matters In) Religion. by benodic: 9:55pm On Mar 26, 2011 |
@ poster, what really matters in a religion? for me it is how close has that religion brought me to God and how has that religion helped me in developing love for God and love for all life. some of the posts i read in this thread reminds me exactly why i left some religions and have absolutely no interests in some other religion. the first time i come across a religion the first thing i look for is how has the practice of that religion made the followers of that particular religion better people and more loving people. unfortunately most of the orthodox religions i have come across is filled with people who have no love for those outside their religion and some have no qualms killing you if you are not members of their religion. it is really sad the state of most religions in the world today. at the end of the day, religion ultimately should be an individual thing. strictly between you and God. and the end product should be something beautiful to behold. love fully personified and overflowing to all life. kindly keep your religion to yourself but please give me your love for that is what we need to survive in this world and beyond. thanks |
| Re: The Jerusalem Shopkeeper's Assertion: What Really (matters In) Religion. by Sweetnecta: 2:52am On Mar 27, 2011 |
@Deep sight and Benodic; You will have to agree that your position at best is 50/50 chance that you are correct, while mine 50/50 chance that I may be wrong in matters of the absolute presence of God and or my chosen religion. This world is not so intelligent that it brings itself to being. But it is so organized that it is impossible to say there is no Organizer of some sort. That One Organizer that has Absolute Intelligence to make this happen is God. God can't create all of these and us human in [it] without a purpose. Hence, God says in the Wise Book full of Guidance [Quran]; And I did not create jinn and man other than they worship Me. I do not ask of them food or anything else. Allah did not just say this but give us the road map for such a worship, naming the religion [even] of which we ought to follow. It has been known that the children of Israel even make holy pilgrimage to Makka, which is still done by the muslims till today. The Bani Israil made the annual hajj in response to the call of Ibrahim [AS]. All of the above point to Islam being the religion of truth, never mind the pockets of evil among the muslim community. |
| Re: The Jerusalem Shopkeeper's Assertion: What Really (matters In) Religion. by DeepSight(m): 3:09pm On Mar 27, 2011 |
Sweetnecta: I have no idea what "position" you are alluding to in referring to me. It seems you do not read. |
| Re: The Jerusalem Shopkeeper's Assertion: What Really (matters In) Religion. by benodic: 7:20pm On Mar 27, 2011 |
@ Sweetnecta
if you understood what i wrote at all you will realize that i do not give a damn if your religion is the supreme one or not or if your religion was handed directly from God to your Spiritual leader or if your religion is the purest on earth today. what matters to me is how has that religion changed the followers of that religion to become better and more loving people. if you look around in Nigeria today you will have an inkling in what i am talking about. Nigeria is well known as a very religious country but we are also well known as a corrupt country. it is the same religious people in nigeria that form the bulk of the corrupt people. why is it that the religions in Nigeria has not been able to bring out good citizens meanwhile the white countries that have relegated religion to the background are doing very well. so for me the test of a religion will always be how it affects its followers. and how its followers treat others who are not from their religion. a religion will always be judged by the action of its followers. there are no excuses. so please keep your religion to yourself and give me your unconditional love if you can. for it is unconditional love that takes us closer to God and definitely not your religion. thanks |
| Re: The Jerusalem Shopkeeper's Assertion: What Really (matters In) Religion. by KunleOshob(m): 7:49pm On Mar 27, 2011 |
^^^ Like |
| Re: The Jerusalem Shopkeeper's Assertion: What Really (matters In) Religion. by Sweetnecta: 8:07pm On Mar 27, 2011 |
@benodic; Those who are evil even as they say they are believers are one of the followings; 1]. ignorant of what the religion requires of them while they just let their bad qualities take over. 2]. they know the truth, but they prefer to be hypocritical anyway, liars of what they say they follow. There is nothing called unconditional love. just like there is nothing called unconditional hate. God does not practice either. if you write your own understanding of God, the reality is actually what God is; He loves and hates with reasons; His rules obeyed or disobeyed are major factors which brings about His Mercy or Justice. Forgiveness from Him is a reality. Adam and Eve received it of their sin/mistake. Justice from Him is a reality. At the end of the Day, on Judgment Day satan and those who follow him shall receive te just punishment. Even you who is asking for unconditional love can never give unconditional love to all all the time. somebody or something will bring the other side out of you. the other side you are suppressing so much. Why do you think God will create you, hell and paradise, endowed you with ability to know right and wrong, yet you think that your decision about His Rule must be based on what you see of others, instead of you finding out if there is the right rule from Him that you must adopt and follow over and above other 'rules'. And the white people you think are good without religion, are just as rotten as the nigerian religious hypocrites or outright evil people with or without religion. God consciousness is goo. the best is sincere God consciousness. a person without consciousness of God is like a cattle, only better than a religious hypocrite. hypocrisy is not a good barometer to measure anything. |
| Re: The Jerusalem Shopkeeper's Assertion: What Really (matters In) Religion. by PastorAIO: 8:25pm On Mar 27, 2011 |
Sweetnecta: @Sweetnecta. I think you miss his point. Let me ask it in my own way. How has your practice of Islam made you a better person? How does it make your fellow practitioners better people? All I've ever heard from you is all sorts of twisted arguments about why your religion is superior to others, but please can you point me to any practical tangible benefits of practicing your religion that I can observe in the real world. |
| Re: The Jerusalem Shopkeeper's Assertion: What Really (matters In) Religion. by Sweetnecta: 5:14am On Mar 28, 2011 |
^^^^^ Islam brought the whole of Arab to the world stage. I am simply presenting the islam i know. It was Islam that woke Europe from its slumber of the dark ages. Maybe you have not read about the Arabs before Islam. Then when Islam entered their hearts, and the world stage. As for me, i am no more an ethnic man in the sense that all muslims are now my brothers and sisters. Many people i know have left the gutter behaviors that they used to have for the good garb of islam; they become speakers of truth or be silent. they do not give in to their desires [the lower instincts, etc]. it is islam that stopped the Arabs from burying their baby daughters alive because they preferred male children. there is a ton of benefit in Islam. the best is doing good for the sake of God. and avoiding evil for the same reason. you try it sometimes. |
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