mhmsadyq:


Your senses seem to be returning. Good!

Abdul, you have a basket for a brain i am beyond your intellectual capacity.

Like you could see i have been having a very deep intellectual exchange with the atheist before you.

He is also far beyond your mental capacity, (why he surrendered is very obvious)

I won't be a part of this your tears shedding and questions evading when ever you put on the spot.

Quran is a pathetic excuse without content created to deflect theology not answer them

Go and call your imam to debate me

Mikecold:
Abdul, you have a basket for a brain i am beyond your intellectual capacity.

Like you could see i have been having a very deep intellectual exchange with the atheist before you.

He is also far beyond your mental capacity, (why he surrendered is very obvious)

I won't be a part of this your tears shedding and questions evading when ever you put on the spot.

Quran is a pathetic excuse without content created to deflect theology not answer them

If you disparage the Quran then you must also do the same to the Jewish Torah.
Yet Christianity and Islam git their foundation from the Torah.

Myer:


If you disparage the Quran then you must also do the same to the Jewish Torah.
Yet Christianity and Islam git their foundation from the Torah.

If you have an iota of comprehension you would see that the question isn't about the Torah (we all agree it's genuinely correct)

Christianity gifts it's foundation from Torah and have validation/historic proof from the Torah to back it up

Quran/Islam gifts it's foundation from the Torah but can't back it up.

I challenge the both of us to show the validation from the Torah on our respective religion, do you accept my challenge?

Mikecold:
If you have an iota of comprehension you would see that the question isn't about the Torah (we all agree it's genuinely correct)

Christianity gifts it's foundation from Torah and have validation/historic proof from the Torah to back it up

Quran/Islam gifts it's foundation from the Torah but can't back it up.

I challenge the both of us to show the validation from the Torah on our respective religion, do you accept my challenge?

I'm not a Muslim though. But I know a couple of Muslims that will gladly accept your challenge.

If the Torah and Quran reject Jesus Christ as Son of God, talkless of being the God. Then it means Christianity is the questionable one.

Even the bible says at the mouth of 2 witnesses the truth is established. Islam and Torah witness the same Truth but Christianity is on its own.

MaxInDHouse:
This is political!

The Arab world want to take over power from the West, they found out that the nation that served longest as world power in the past was Italy (Rome) and the tool Romans used to keep that position for that long was Catholicism (religion)
So after lots of internal disputes amongst themselves they came to agree that Muhammad whom they themselves exterminated would have been useful to them. HOW?
If all Arabs should embrace the same god instead of each family having it's own god as they've been doing in the past, it will be easier for them to form alliance against the west and they will use Islam (religion) to recruit more fighters to support them.
Muhammad was assassinated because he is imposing the custom of the Jews on them and telling them that their numerous gods are worthless. Before then there was no nation on this planet that's worshiping just one deity except Israel. So they thought he is insulting them by raising the tradition of their enemies against their own, but when they now reconciled and thought of making use of what Muhammad introduced, the bone of contention now is which name will the God of Islam be called?
Of course Muhammad can't call on the name of the God of the Jews "JEHOVAH" in the midst of the enemies of Israel so he can't fabricate any name other than living it as God (Allah)
So Allah simply means God and God is just a title not the name of any specific deity, the name the God of the Hebrews called himself is "JEHOVAH"
If i want to preach and teach an Arabian about my own God now, i'll use the name JEHOVAH but when talking about the title then Allah would be appropriate because Allah simply means God therefore all the deities in the world could be referred to as Allah (god) why the Arabs fought against Muhammad wasn't the name but that there is just one Allah (god) so which Allah (god) should be scrapped amongst several deities that the inhabitants of Mecca worshiped back then and which should be retained? That's what caused the rift between Muhammad and his people not the issue of a specific name!

Another perspective of the origin of Islam.

Allah means "the god": as you said, it's just a qualifying word for a non specific title of a god just like king is a non specific title of a ruler of a community.

Allah and Elohim both Semitic in origin (singular Eloah) means the same thing (the god)



First, YHWH is a proper noun, the personal name of Israel's deity. Second, Elohim is a common noun, used to refer to deity. Elohim is actually a plural noun (indicated by the /im/ as in cherubim and seraphim).
... Sometimes Elohim refers to plural "gods," as in "You shall have no other gods before me" (Deuteronomy 5:7).
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.nas.org/articles/ask_a_scholar_what_does_yhwh_elohim_mean&ved=2ahUKEwigq7aptsruAhXK8uAKHV9KBocQFjAKegQILxAE&usg=AOvVaw1kcp76butv-3FU3bvyvRZc

The first century Jewish Christians were inspired to pen down the Gospel account not in Hebrew but Greek language for two main reasons
[1] they want to preach and teach about the Messiah in a language that's widely spoken back then and Greek (Greece) is still the world's most common language, it's was later that Latin (Italian) gained ground after so many years that the Romans kept conquering all other nations.
[2] they want to keep the gospel accounts safe and away from their Jewish people who doesn't want Jesus' name to be publicized as the Christ.

So when they quote from the Hebrew scriptures (Old Testament) any intelligent reader can sense that the first century Jewish Christians and their leader (Jesus) acknowledged that they are all worshipers of JEHOVAH the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob! Mark 12:29 compared to Deuteronomy 6:4
Jesus himself declared that the person who sent him is the God of Abraham he never said he came on his own {John 8:28; 20:17} Peter (one of the Apostles) publicly declared that Jesus is the PROPHET God promised that will come in the manner of Moses! Act 3:22 compared to Deuteronomy 18:15-18

So it was the misinformed churchgoers who mistranslated God's word and misconstrued everything when they were trying to establish the doctrine of TRINITY that was never found anywhere in the Old Testament. Jesus said JEHOVAH our God is one JEHOVAH not three gods in one!

Myer:


You're right to point out the fact that Allah simply means God by translation.
Whether that God is the same as Jehovah is a subject of debate.
But I believe even gods know and recognise that there's only one God. Even Apostle Paul corroborates this. Acts 17:23-24
So for the Muslims and Jews to be worshipping that God means their followers are all worshipping the same One God.

Do you know that the name Jehovah only exists in the old testament?
Not once was Jehovah mentioned in the new testament.
Christians now believe God having exalted the name of Jesus even above his own name means that Jesus is the God of Christianity. Philippians 2:9-11

If I'm wrong please don't hesitate to prove me wrong with scriptures.

mhmsadyq:


Can you go to any Church and shout "Jehovah Akbar"? or "God Akbar". LOL

Jehovah is Hebrew, Allah is Arabic.
Jehovah is Hebrew, Akbar is Arabic.
Reconcile them.

What about "Olohun Akbar".
Chineke Akbar
Ubangiji Akbar
Ojoo Akbar etc.

Think!

You just reiterated the point. You can't go to the church and shout Jehovah Akbar.

Allah and Elohim are both Semitic languages meaning "the god" and it is non specific TITLE for a deity (like "the king" . But as we all know, every king has a name just like every God has a name!

The name of the God of the Christians is Jehovah!
The name of the God of the Muslims is Allah!

They are NOT the same Personality!

It couldn't have been more explicit than this if i was to explain it, thanks Shadeyinka!

shadeyinka:

Another perspective of the origin of Islam.

Allah means "the god": as you said, it's just a qualifying word for a non specific title of a god just like king is a non specific title of a ruler of a community.

Allah and Elohim both Semitic in origin (singular Eloah) means the same thing (the god)



First, YHWH is a proper noun, the personal name of Israel's deity. Second, Elohim is a common noun, used to refer to deity. Elohim is actually a plural noun (indicated by the /im/ as in cherubim and seraphim).
... Sometimes Elohim refers to plural "gods," as in "You shall have no other gods before me" (Deuteronomy 5:7).
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.nas.org/articles/ask_a_scholar_what_does_yhwh_elohim_mean&ved=2ahUKEwigq7aptsruAhXK8uAKHV9KBocQFjAKegQILxAE&usg=AOvVaw1kcp76butv-3FU3bvyvRZc

Myer:


I'm not a Muslim though. But I know a couple of Muslims that will gladly accept your challenge.

If the Torah and Quran reject Jesus Christ as Son of God, talkless of being the God. Then it means Christianity is the questionable one.

Even the bible says at the mouth of 2 witnesses the truth is established. Islam and Torah witness the same Truth but Christianity is on its own.

lol, firstly let us both agree that the Torah is our original manuscript (i don't think this would be difficult for you) guiding us on this search.

Since you have chosen to beam your search light on Jesus as son of God i don't have a problem with it (we can use our manuscript to search this out)

We don't have business with the opinion of Islam yet to compare anything until it validates itself from been from the Torah (By Torah affirming it from it's end)


Without much ado, where do you want to start from

(1). Do we go to the challenge of validation of both religion from Torah (i can see you already denying been a Muslim despite holding brief for it all this while).

(2). Do we solve the challenge of Verifying Jesus divinity which you diverting our attention to (mind you we would only be using the Torah because the Quran remains invalidated in this discussion from Torah)

MaxInDHouse:
It couldn't have been more explicit than this if i was to explain it, thanks Shadeyinka!

You are welcome.

I appreciate that it isn't "war" every time we meet.

Cheers!

It could have been WAR again!

What you just explain is from our teachings as you've learned from us so whenever you speak in harmony with our teachings i know it's part of the things you gained from studying with JWs, i am 100% certain that ECWA can never teach you this!

shadeyinka:

You are welcome.
I appreciate that it isn't "war" every time we meet.
Cheers!

MaxInDHouse:
It could have been WAR again!

What you just explain is from our teachings as you've learned from us so whenever you speak in harmony with our teachings i know it's part of the things you gained from studying with JWs, i am 100% certain that ECWA can never teach you this!

You gave me the biggest laughter of this morning. Things learnt from you!?

Very funny joke!

ECWA has one of the Best Children school and Bible study. In bibles studies, we are encouraged to be like the Berean Christians. Not to accept doctrines without verifying and coming to a personal conviction and understanding (in spite of any official church position).

Anyways, I enjoyed the joke!

shadeyinka:

You just reiterated the point. You can't go to the church and shout Jehovah Akbar.

Allah and Elohim are both Semitic languages meaning "the god" and it is non specific TITLE for a deity (like "the king" . But as we all know, every king has a name just like every God has a name!

The name of the God of the Christians is Jehovah!
The name of the God of the Muslims is Allah!

They are NOT the same Personality!

If you say they are not the same personality, no Wahala nah!

Islam tells me who Allah is and that is where i stand.

[2:255] Al-Baqarah-الْبَقَرَة
"اَللّٰہُ لَاۤ اِلٰہَ اِلَّا ہُوَۚ اَلۡحَیُّ الۡقَیُّوۡمُ ۬ۚ لَا تَاۡخُذُہٗ سِنَۃٌ وَّ لَا نَوۡمٌ ؕ لَہٗ مَا فِی السَّمٰوٰتِ وَ مَا فِی الۡاَرۡضِ ؕ مَنۡ ذَا الَّذِیۡ یَشۡفَعُ عِنۡدَہٗۤ اِلَّا بِاِذۡنِہٖ ؕ یَعۡلَمُ مَا بَیۡنَ اَیۡدِیۡہِمۡ وَ مَا خَلۡفَہُمۡ ۚ وَ لَا یُحِیۡطُوۡنَ بِشَیۡءٍ مِّنۡ عِلۡمِہٖۤ اِلَّا بِمَا شَآءَ ۚ وَسِعَ کُرۡسِیُّہُ السَّمٰوٰتِ وَ الۡاَرۡضَ ۚ وَ لَا یَـُٔوۡدُہٗ حِفۡظُہُمَا ۚ وَ ہُوَ الۡعَلِیُّ الۡعَظِیۡمُ ﴿۲۵۵﴾

Allah! None is worthy of worship but He, the Ever-Living, the Self-Subsisting, the One Who sustains and protects (the entire universe with His strategy). He is seized by neither slumber nor sleep. Whatever is in the heavens and whatever is in the earth belongs to Him alone. Who can dare intercede with Him except by His permission? (He) knows all that is (happening or has happened) before the Creation, and all that is (about to happen) after them; and they cannot encompass anything of His knowledge except that which He wills. His Throne (of Empire and Power and Authority) encompasses the heavens and the earth, and the protection of both (the earth and the heavens) does not pose Him any difficulty. And He alone is Most High, Most Great.

mhmsadyq:


If you say they are not the same personality, no Wahala nah!

Islam tells me who Allah is and that is where i stand.

[2:255] Al-Baqarah-الْبَقَرَة
"اَللّٰہُ لَاۤ اِلٰہَ اِلَّا ہُوَۚ اَلۡحَیُّ الۡقَیُّوۡمُ ۬ۚ لَا تَاۡخُذُہٗ سِنَۃٌ وَّ لَا نَوۡمٌ ؕ لَہٗ مَا فِی السَّمٰوٰتِ وَ مَا فِی الۡاَرۡضِ ؕ مَنۡ ذَا الَّذِیۡ یَشۡفَعُ عِنۡدَہٗۤ اِلَّا بِاِذۡنِہٖ ؕ یَعۡلَمُ مَا بَیۡنَ اَیۡدِیۡہِمۡ وَ مَا خَلۡفَہُمۡ ۚ وَ لَا یُحِیۡطُوۡنَ بِشَیۡءٍ مِّنۡ عِلۡمِہٖۤ اِلَّا بِمَا شَآءَ ۚ وَسِعَ کُرۡسِیُّہُ السَّمٰوٰتِ وَ الۡاَرۡضَ ۚ وَ لَا یَـُٔوۡدُہٗ حِفۡظُہُمَا ۚ وَ ہُوَ الۡعَلِیُّ الۡعَظِیۡمُ ﴿۲۵۵﴾

Allah! None is worthy of worship but He, the Ever-Living, the Self-Subsisting, the One Who sustains and protects (the entire universe with His strategy). He is seized by neither slumber nor sleep. Whatever is in the heavens and whatever is in the earth belongs to Him alone. Who can dare intercede with Him except by His permission? (He) knows all that is (happening or has happened) before the Creation, and all that is (about to happen) after them; and they cannot encompass anything of His knowledge except that which He wills. His Throne (of Empire and Power and Authority) encompasses the heavens and the earth, and the protection of both (the earth and the heavens) does not pose Him any difficulty. And He alone is Most High, Most Great.

But Prophet Mohammed's father's name was Abdullah (servant of Allah). The question I'll like you to answer is this:

Is the God of Abdullah the same as the God of Prophet Mohammed?

Samfloxin:
No,christians worship God while Muslims worship a god called allah.

Christian Protestants worship the image of the white Jesus on a cross, insisting he is also the son if god and God@ same time.

Catholics worship god via Mary, who they say mothered god the son an god the god.

Muslims worship Allah who they believe has no eartly image, while believing Jesus is the prophet of Allah.

Now, whatever you do or believe not having humanity and empathy equates all your prayers, vigil and other excessive worship to zero!!

I am still waiting for a Muslim that is proud of his religion to come engage me

I don't want running o, face me in an intellectual debate, no allah knows best too

shadeyinka:

But Prophet Mohammed's father's name was Abdullah (servant of Allah). The question I'll like you to answer is this:

Is the God of Abdullah the same as the God of Prophet Mohammed?

lol, they won't answer this o,

They all verify that Mohammed was first Muslim on earth, that is father worshiped Qureshi god.

Yet Mohammed father is called Abdullah (someone who supposedly died before Mohammed satanic prophethood began)

I have always asked them which allah Mohammed father worshiped?

why is Mohammed a slave to the same allah his idol father worshiped?

Muslims are intellectually bankrupt that's why they hide under allah knows best.

No theology, no history, no consistency, just copy and paste.

They love to follow history of Jesus birth etc but they supposed prophet they throw him under the bed like hot potato

It's good to start a new day with joy and laughter in our faces my friend!
There is a secret i'll like you to keep in your mind from today, whenever people speak in contrast to our teachings only JWs will know but whenever anyone speak in harmony with our teachings EVERYONE WILL KNOW!

JW Perspective. Ok. ~ mhmsadyq

shadeyinka:

You gave me the biggest laughter of this morning. Things learnt from you!?
Very funny joke!
ECWA has one of the Best Children school and Bible study. In bibles studies, we are encouraged to be like the Berean Christians. Not to accept doctrines without verifying and coming to a personal conviction and understanding (in spite of any official church position).
Anyways, I enjoyed the joke!

MaxInDHouse:
It's good to start a new day with joy and laughter in our faces my friend!
There is a secret i'll like you to keep in your mind from today, whenever people speak in contrast to our teachings only JWs will know but whenever anyone speak in harmony with our teachings EVERYONE WILL KNOW!

JW Perspective. Ok. ~ mhmsadyq

I perfectly disagree with you (if there is an English like that)!

There are points of agreement with most similar faiths like
* We believe in the virgin birth of Christ
* We believe that Jesus was Executed
* We ascribe to the Lordship of Christ
* We believe in the Bible as scripture and authority
But there are things we vehemently disagree with
* Trinity
* Definition of Soul and Spirit
* Crucifiction on a cross vs torture stake
* Angel Michael being Jesus etc.

Even muslims have some seemingly similar agreement with christians on
* the virgin birth of Christ
* the importance of the patriarchs (who they refer to as Prophets)
* that there is only ONE God

Considering your statement that : whenever people speak in contrast to our teachings only JWs will know but whenever anyone speak in harmony with our teachings EVERYONE WILL KNOW!
I know YOUR doctrines that is why I can speak in opposition to it when it contradicts what I consider as true doctrine and I recognize whenever anyone else speak in opposition to your doctrines: yet I am no JW!

Mikecold:
lol, they won't answer this o,

They all verify that Mohammed was first Muslim on earth, that is father worshiped Qureshi god.

Yet Mohammed father is called Abdullah (someone who supposedly died before Mohammed satanic prophethood began)

I have always asked them which allah Mohammed father worshiped?

why is Mohammed a slave to the same allah his idol father worshiped?

Muslims are intellectually bankrupt that's why they hide under allah knows best.

No theology, no history, no consistency, just copy and paste.

They love to follow history of Jesus birth etc but they supposed prophet they throw him under the bed like hot potato

Actually, Muslims are trained not to critique their doctrine: it is haram.
They are just expected to accept whatever the Quran, Hadiths and the Sunnah say without question.

For example:
*You will hardly find a Muslim that will lookup the meaning of Allah in Arabic
*They will hardly check out the chronological order of events as recorded in the quran. (Abraham was put in fire by the Chaldeans even though the Chaldeans did NOT exist as of the time of Abraham)
*They will certainly not read the Taurat, Zabur and Injeel even though copies older than Mohammed exists neither will they try to translate them into arabic for Muslims to read.

They honestly do not know that some of the stories in the quran are from the Jewish folktales (Mishnah, the two Talmuds and Midrash.) Most of the embellishment of the Torah and distortions introduced by sweet mouth rabbis making commentaries are found there.


We can only pray for "the sincerely in error"!

Myer:


I'm not a Muslim though. But I know a couple of Muslims that will gladly accept your challenge.

If the Torah and Quran reject Jesus Christ as Son of God, talkless of being the God. Then it means Christianity is the questionable one.

Even the bible says at the mouth of 2 witnesses the truth is established. Islam and Torah witness the same Truth but Christianity is on its own.

Jesus wasn't born yet as at the time the Torah was compiled, therefore, the Torah couldn't have rejected Jesus as the Son of God.

When people utter contrary things to our teachings only JWs will know!

It's deeper as in much more deeper than you can imagine my friend, so don't worry yourself.
The TRUTH when spoken connects us with our fellow believers who are lost in other religions {John 10:3-6} so when we speak the (spiritual) language {Zephaniah 3:9} instantly those who belong to us will feel it and follow us. John 10:27
While those on the opposition will be irritated by it!

For instance let me speak one of our language that you can't hear anywhere else!

Our God is One and there is just one way to worship him John 14:6

Only those who belong to our fold will take this seriously, some may even be lost in other forms of religion like Islam, Buddha, Krishna, Òsun, Catholic and so on. The language that connects us is "this is the one and only pure worship of the true God" once our lost brother or sister {Matthew 10:6} hear this, they will not feel comfortable again until they get to the root of the matter. Some may be gentle like Zacchaeus or resentful like Nathaniel or brutal like Paul, but one thing brings us together there can't be two ways of worshiping our God it must be one!

So whenever we meet anyone who feels like people can come up with different opinions or ideas regarding sacred service, instantly we know such a person is never one of us so we will just tell him "go and worship your God, our own God must be worshiped THE SAME WAY!"
That is the first language we need to hear from whoever is on our side!

shadeyinka:

I perfectly disagree with you (if there is an English like that)!

There are points of agreement with most similar faiths like
* We believe in the virgin birth of Christ
* We believe that Jesus was Executed
* We ascribe to the Lordship of Christ
* We believe in the Bible as scripture and authority
But there are things we vehemently disagree with
* Trinity
* Definition of Soul and Spirit
* Crucifiction on a cross vs torture stake
* Angel Michael being Jesus etc.

Even muslims have some seemingly similar agreement with christians on
* the virgin birth of Christ
* the importance of the patriarchs (who they refer to as Prophets)
* that there is only ONE God

Considering your statement that : whenever people speak in contrast to our teachings only JWs will know but whenever anyone speak in harmony with our teachings EVERYONE WILL KNOW!
I know YOUR doctrines that is why I can speak in opposition to it when it contradicts what I consider as true doctrine and I recognize whenever anyone speak in opposition to your doctrines: yet I am no JW!

shadeyinka:

Actually, Muslims are trained not to critique their doctrine: it is haram.
They are just expected to accept whatever the Quran, Hadiths and the Sunnah say without question.

For example:
*You will hardly find a Muslim that will lookup the meaning of Allah in Arabic
*They will hardly check out the chronological order of events as recorded in the quran. (Abraham was put in fire by the Chaldeans even though the Chaldeans did NOT exist as of the time of Abraham)
*They will certainly not read the Taurat, Zabur and Injeel even though copies older than Mohammed exists neither will they try to translate them into arabic for Muslims to read.

They honestly do not know that some of the stories in the quran are from the Jewish folktales (Mishnah, the two Talmuds and Midrash.) Most of the embellishment of the Torah and distortions introduced by sweet mouth rabbis making commentaries are found there.


We can only pray for "the sincerely in error"!

My brother i am intellectually disappointed in this people, i enjoy debates with athiest to them.

They have no history, the only time Mohamed tried to explain his own history by birth he was bursted (little wonder why he borrowed the whole Bible and took the part that goes against his political conquest).

If you have a religion it should be perfect, it should have a theology behind it (Islam doesn't)

I ask Muslims what they think about the Abraham story, all they say is it's a test from God.

What is the significance they don't know yet they borrowed it.

Abraham already had ismael, God didn't ask him to kill his only son Ismael for test (that would have been the true time for a supposed test)

God waited till he had a second child Isaac, then suddenly ask him for some test when God already knows he also had ismael and it won't pain him.

The purpose of a mere test is defeated

What was God business in taking the human blood of a man's son? (It wasn't primarily a test intention but a show of what God was to do in future).

Infact Abraham knew it wasn't a test as Muslims claim, he also knew the outcome of the supposed test.

Genesis 22:5

And Abraham said unto his young men, abide ye here with the ass, and "i and the lad will go yonder and worship and come again to you".

Genesis 22:7

And Isaac spake unto Abraham his father and said, My father and he said Here am i my son, and he said, Behold the fire and the wood, but "where is the lamb"

And Abraham said My son, " God will provide himself a lamb"

God provided a ram to Abraham from nowhere in description that he would send his own holy substitute to Abraham sacrifice

Isaac was his only begotten son just like Jesus

Abraham and Isaac spend three days before getting to the place of sacrifice significant with Christ three days of death and resurrection.



In essence Muslims accept the essence of Christ when they accept Abraham sacrifice story (which they kill Rams for till date yet they foolishly say they don't believe Christ came to die for sins).

How pathetically ignorant they are

Mikecold:
My brother i am intellectually disappointed in this people, i enjoy debates with athiest to them.

They have no history, the only time Mohamed tried to explain his own history by birth he was bursted (little wonder why he borrowed the whole Bible and took the part that goes against his political conquest).

If you have a religion it should be perfect, it should have a theology behind it (Islam doesn't)

I ask Muslims what they think about the Abraham story, all they say is it's a test from God.

What is the significance they don't know yet they borrowed it.

Abraham already had ismael, God didn't ask him to kill his only son Ismael for test (that would have been the true time for a supposed test)

God waited till he had a second child Isaac, then suddenly ask him for some test when God already knows he also had ismael and it won't pain him.

The purpose of a mere test is defeated

What was God business in taking the human blood of a man's son? (It wasn't primarily a test intention but a show of what God was to do in future).

God provided a ram to Abraham from nowhere in description that he would send his own holy substitute to Abraham sacrifice

Isaac was his only begotten son just like Jesus

Abraham and Isaac spend three days before getting to the place of sacrifice significant with Christ three days of death and resurrection.



In essence Muslims accept the essence of Christ when they accept Abraham sacrifice story (which they kill Rams for till date yet they foolishly say they don't believe Christ came to die for sins).

How pathetically ignorant they are

Actually, Islam accepts most things in the Bible that has nothing to do with salvation: but anything that has to do with salvation is rejected in its entirety.

One of the greatest weakness of Islam (claiming Abrahamic Faith) is that they do NOT understand the purpose of BLOOD SACRIFICE as ordered by God for the remission of the sins of Israel. They actually have no iota of clue nor does it have any relevance to them.

If they do not even understand the significance of sacrifice in Abrahamic religion, how can they claim that their religion stems from Abraham?

Jesus wasn't crucified neither did He die BUT they can't explain what happened to Jesus!

I pray for them and try to explain the way of salvation to them as best as I can BUT they need mercy to break free from the chain they are entangled in.

MaxInDHouse:
When people utter contrary things to our teachings only JWs will know!

It's deeper as in much more deeper than you can imagine my friend, so don't worry yourself.
The TRUTH when spoken connects us with our fellow believers who are lost in other religions {John 10:3-6} so when we speak the (spiritual) language {Zephaniah 3:9} instantly those who belong to us will feel it and follow us. John 10:27
While those on the opposition will be irritated by it!

For instance let me speak one of our language that you can't hear anywhere else!

Our God is One and there is just one way to worship him John 14:6

Only those who belong to our fold will take this seriously, some may even be lost in other forms of religion like Islam, Buddha, Krishna, Òsun, Catholic and so on. The language that connects us is "this is the one and only pure worship of the true God" once our lost brother or sister {Matthew 10:6} hear this, they will not feel comfortable again until they get to the root of the matter. Some may be gentle like Zacchaeus or resentful like Nathaniel or brutal like Paul, but one thing brings us together there can't be two ways of worshiping our God it must be one!

So whenever we meet anyone who feels like people can come up with different opinions or ideas regarding sacred service, instantly we know such a person is never one of us so we will just tell him "go and worship your God, our own God must be worshiped THE SAME WAY!"
That is the first language we need to hear from whoever is on our side!

Our God is One and there is just one way to worship him John 14:6

Of course by moving in line as directed by the JW organisation so that there can be only one voice and sameness of opinion. How dare anyone have an idea different from that which is prescribed by the organisation!?

You see!?

We give thanks to Almighy Allah, may His blessing be upon our noble Messanger Muhammad.

Surely, we Muslim worship Allah meaning God in english the creator of the universe.

He created mankind from one soul, only Him is worthy of worship all other gods are false.

Verily, Muslims are not worshiping the same God with Christians with the following reasons:

* We believed in oneness of God and worship Him alone, this is the belief of all the prophets and messangers of God starting from Adam, Noah, Ibrahim, Zakariyah, Mosa, Luth, Yahya, Isa (Jesus) and Muhammad etc May the peace and blessing of Allah be upon them amen.

Ibrahim called to oneness of God, Jesus called to oneness of God , he didn't tell his apostles to worship him nor says he is the son of God or called to trinity.

Jesus was a Muslim because he called to oneness of God and also worshiped his God.

Christianity was founded after God raised Jesus to heaven by Paul according to Bible and he formed his own doctrine, he introduced trinity, etc.

Christian worship three in one god which go against the doctrine of Prophets and Messangers of God.

He who ever claimed Abraham is their faith of faith let him bring his evidence from Abraham (Ibrahim) where he called to trinity like wise Isa ( Jesus ) peace and blessing of Allah be upon them.

shadeyinka:

Actually, Islam accepts most things in the Bible that has nothing to do with salvation: but anything that has to do with salvation is rejected in its entirety.

One of the greatest weakness of Islam (claiming Abrahamic Faith) is that they do NOT understand the purpose of BLOOD SACRIFICE as ordered by God for the remission of the sins of Israel. They actually have no iota of clue nor does it have any relevance to them.

If they do not even understand the significance of sacrifice in Abrahamic religion, how can they claim that their religion stems from Abraham?

Jesus wasn't crucified neither did He die BUT they can't explain what happened to Jesus!

I pray for them and try to explain the way of salvation to them as best as I can BUT they need mercy to break free from the chain they are entangled in.

yes brother

I put it to you that Islam isn't an Abrahamic faith as people wrongly claim.

Abrahamic in it's sense is the inheritance of the blessings attached to Abraham.

Jews are the children of Abraham through Isaac his son (Direct Inheritance)

Christians are the children of Abraham through the finished work of Jesus the son of God and his lineage to Abraham.

Muslims have no business with Abraham, admitting i am son of Dangote doesn't make me his son in any way.

Ismael which Muslims claim Inheritance to Abraham as father of Arabs wasn't even an Arab.

Ismael was sent off to Egypt his mother's (Haggai) place

Genesis 25: 12 lists the generations of Ismael

In Genesis 25:17

And these are the years and life of Ismael, an hundred and thirty and seven years, and he gave up the ghost and died, "and was gathered to his people".

19.
And they dwelt from Havi-lah unto Shur, that is before Egypt as thou first toward Assyria, and he died in the presence of all his brethen.


This verse makes no mention of Ismael having any business with Arab who were primarily Saudis Arabia the birth place of Islam.

Egypt were Ishmael lived and died wasn't/isn't Arab, so how does Islam and the Arabs who were already existing before Ismael verify he is their father?

Mikecold:
yes brother

I put it to you that Islam isn't an Abrahamic faith as people wrongly claim.

Abrahamic in it's sense is the inheritance of the blessings attached to Abraham.

Jews are the children of Abraham through Isaac his son (Direct Inheritance)

Christians are the children of Abraham through the finished work of Jesus the son of God and his lineage to Abraham.

Muslims have no business with Abraham, admitting i am son of Dangote doesn't make me his son in any way.

Ismael which Muslims claim Inheritance to Abraham as father of Arabs wasn't even an Arab.

Ismael was sent off to Egypt his mother's (Haggai)

Genesis 25: 12 lists the generations of Ismael

In Genesis 25:17

And these are the years and life of Ismael, an hundred and thirty and seven years, and he gave up the ghost and died, "and was gathered to his people".

19.
And they dwelt from Havi-lah unto Shur, that is before Egypt as thou first toward Assyria, and he died in the presence of all his brethen.


This verse makes no mention of Ismael having any business with Arab who were primarily Saudis Arabia the birth place of Islam.

Egypt were Ishmael lived and died wasn't/isn't Arab, so how does Islam and the Arabs who were already existing before Ismael verify he is their father?

Well, Arabs may certainly be descendants of Ishmael for a number of reasons
1. They are of the Semitic stock by language (slightly similar to Hebrew)
2. They have oral traditions to that which seem to be supported by Jews.

My only problem with them is TWISTING the truth out of place by INSERTING Allah to have all the attribute of Jehovah and tricking people away from the path of salvation by introducing RELIGION.

If Mohammed is NOT sure of paradise, how can he be the intercessors for them (Muslims at the Judgement time)? (Quran 46:9)
If ALL muslims will enter into Hell, what is the guarantee that they will come out of it? (Quran 19:71-72)

Please pray for them! It is by grace you have been saved. If your father was an Imam, probably you too will be arguing blindly with Christians thinking you are on the right path.

You garrit you garrit!

shadeyinka:

Our God is One and there is just one way to worship him John 14:6

Of course by moving in line as directed by the JW organisation so that there can be only one voice and sameness of opinion. How dare anyone have an idea different from that which is prescribed by the organisation!?

You see!?

shadeyinka:

Well, Arabs may certainly be descendants of Ishmael for a number of reasons
1. They are of the Semitic stock by language (slightly similar to Hebrew)
2. They have oral traditions to that which seem to be supported by Jews.

My only problem with them is TWISTING the truth out of place by INSERTING Allah to have all the attribute of Jehovah and tricking people away from the path of salvation by introducing RELIGION.

If Mohammed is NOT sure of paradise, how can he be the intercessors for them (Muslims at the Judgement time)? (Quran 46:9)
If ALL muslims will enter into Hell, what is the guarantee that they will come out of it? (Quran 19:71-72)

Please pray for them! It is by grace you have been saved. If your father was an Imam, probably you too will be arguing blindly with Christians thinking you are on the right path.

Listen, we are all children of Adam by virtue of our origin both physically as he was first human and spiritually because we inherited the fall from him.

Abraham by virtue of heriditary has physical descendants as well as spiritual descendants.

Arabs been physical descendants to Abraham is proven by the Bible to be incorrect (unless you want to start looking at it with your own comprehension of mere physical looks, heavy copy pasting of traditions which the Arabs were involved in over time).

Again the term Abrahamic is actually because we look at Abraham as our father of faith which in it's term is spiritual in nature (if not spiritual a Christian from China can't call Abraham father).

It is Abrahamic because of the spiritual Inheritance attached

By this inclination Islam as i said before cannot be Abraham (which is largely spiritual) because God never made a covenant with Ishmael which Islam leverage on

Mikecold:
Listen, we are all children of Adam by virtue of our origin both physically as he was first human and spiritually because we inherited the fall from him.

Abraham by virtue of heriditary has physical descendants as well as spiritual descendants.

Arabs been physical descendants to Abraham is proven by the Bible to be incorrect (unless you want to start looking at it with your own comprehension of mere physical looks, heavy copy pasting of traditions which the Arabs were involved in over time).

Again the term Abrahamic is actually because we look at Abraham as our father of faith which in it's term is spiritual in nature (if not spiritual a Christian from China can't call Abraham father).

It is Abrahamic because of the spiritual Inheritance attached

By this inclination Islam as i said before cannot be Abraham (which is largely spiritual) because God never made a covenant with Ishmael which Islam leverage on

I perfectly agree with you. Islam cannot be an Abrahamic faith mainly because the main pivot of Abrahamic faiths stem from Blood Sacrifice as a means of remission of sin. Any religion or faith that rejects this is not an Abrahamic faith

shadeyinka:

But Prophet Mohammed's father's name was Abdullah (servant of Allah). The question I'll like you to answer is this:

Is the God of Abdullah the same as the God of Prophet Mohammed?

Allah is the name of the Supreme God.
Whether the Prophet's father was named after a chief idol called Allah according to some writers is subjective.
One thing that cannot be disputed is that Allah is the name of the Supreme being in Arabic language.
The Allah of Islam is not an idol.