Am terribly sorry to say this, Enigma or whatever you call yourself, u sound like a pompous blockhead. From reading the entire thread i just realised u are a never learning empty barrel, no wonder your likes never experience miracles because u stick to doing stuff all wrong! and as per English language, doing stuff in the name of Jesus is very different from doing stuff thru Jesus, even my baby neice knows that, she is just 5, perhaps she should school u

^^^ Thank you very much 

At least I am not a dumbass anti-Christ like Oyakhilome. As long as I am not anti-Christ, I'm doing fine thank you. 

Joagbaje:
We have the right of attorney to function in His stead, the same way a delegated member of a presidents cabinet can represent him at a state function.

Representing a president does not take away the responsibilities of the president. The delegates ensure they don’t misrepresent the president as he takes ultimate responsibility for the outcome of the function.

Enigma:

So it has already come to "play the version/translation card" again?

Even sticking to your own translation your English is so poor that you don't know that "in him" also means "through him?

It really is important that you take those English classes.

Actually a question for you: if we want to give glory to God do we do it directly or can we do it through Jesus Christ?

The one question I would love to ask. These things we were taught from childhood religiously is it bible based. Are we taught to pray through jeus? Or not? Yes or No. Are we taught to pray through the name of Jesus or In hus name. If you say otherwise ,simply prove it scripturally but if it is not in the bible ,let's not go in circles.

Enigma:

Funny also, they can say people should go to the father directly but when it comes to "tithes" they don't tell the people to go to God direct; that one can only get to God through the "pastors"!

This i find interesting. how come i need to rely on the pastors' anoiting to send the devourer on his way or go through the pastor to get my blessings

@Joagbaje

I asked you: can we give glory to the Father God through Jesus Christ or not?

Zikkyy:

Representing a president does not take away the responsibilities of the president. The delegates ensure they don’t misrepresent the president as he takes ultimate responsibility for the outcome of the function.

You are right. They speak for him. They speak his speech ,his language and do his will. And that's what we are talking about. We speak his language .

1 John 4:17
17 In this [union and communion with Him] love is brought to completion and attains perfection with us, that we may have confidence for the day of judgment [with assurance and boldness to face Him], because as He is, so are we in this world.

John 17:22
22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:

Enigma:

@Joagbaje
I asked you: can we give glory to the Father God through Jesus Christ or not?

Christ is our life and ability. We can bring glory to God through the christ in us, but it is different from praying through the name of jesus.  Our works of service has to be sanctified by the holygost to make it acceptable by God also .

I still ask , is there any where in the bible where we are taught to pray through the name of Jesus rather than in his name.

How did I know you will try the side-step. No don't keep on that chicanery, try the below instead.

Romans 16:27

To God only wise, [be] glory through Jesus Christ for ever. Amen.

Phillipians 4:7

And the peace of God, which passeth all understanding, shall keep your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus.

Phillipians 4:13

I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me.

Are you sure that the author of the opening piece who you are defending and following blindly is genuinely and truly a believer in Christ?

Oh it is no longer "through the christ-life in you" but now "through the christ in you":

So you see, I notice the edit: OK what is the difference between the two then?

Joagbaje:

God accepts me on the bases of Jesus in me. He sees me as Jesus . That's eternal life. Christ in me. Jesus is divided into all of us.
That's what God sees. That's what the devil sees.  

How because you look like Jesus abi i think God only sees the Jesus in you (if any ). the devil knows you are not Jesus so, dont deceive yourself

Oh by the way and in case someone is still asking for an example of who prayed TO Jesus, well

Acts 7

59While they were stoning him, Stephen prayed, “Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.” 60Then he fell on his knees and cried out, “Lord, do not hold this sin against them.” When he had said this, he fell asleep.

You have mastery in derailing a topic. Applying gradualism to take us into another issue. I will follow you. But let's go step by step. answer my question.I ask a 3rd time is it scriptural praying to God  through the name of Jesus or in the name of Jesus. Is there any place the church was instructed to pray through the name of Jesus. Is there any place they prayed through the name of Jesus? Give a direct answer.

^^ I have already answered your question, mate; read post #72 and #75!

(Edited: I got the post numbers wrong initially)

This is post 78

OK, look at #77 again then.

Enigma you are being evasive . Are you saying it is scriptural to pray through the NAME of Jesus .What is the scriptural reference.

Enigma:

Oh by the way and in case someone is still asking for an example of who prayed TO Jesus, well

Acts 7

But you are a Yoruba man are you not? Why do you not pray through, Oduduwa for example> Why do you not believe Oduduwa was a god who came down to the earth?

You reject that no? But a foreign nation TELLS YOU THE EXACT SAME THING ABOUT THEIR OWN PERSON WHO DESCENDED FROM THE SKY AND YOU BELIEVE IT.

It is safe to say that . . .colonial mentality don take over o!

Black man's myth = myth

White man's myth = sacred truth for Enigma to write hymns on nairaland about.

Lol, bruv, pinkie and the brain got nuthin on you as entertainment

^^^Look, just keep out of my way this morning.

Joagbaje:

Enigma you are being evasive . Are you saying it is scriptural to pray through the NAME of Jesus .What is the scriptural reference.

If posts #72 and #75 are not clear enough for you, then may Almighty God help you.

Enigma:

If posts #72 and #75 are not clear enough for you, then may Almighty God help you.

When paul used the phrase Through Jesus ,he is talking of christ in us or life of christ in us. It is not a case of an intermediary . Christ is our life.Everything we do ,we do it by christ. But we are talking about the use of the name of Jesus . How do you use the authority of his name. Will you stand before a demonic person and say "come out devil , through the name of Jesus" or rather in the name. Or while praying to God you say " father we pray through the name of Jesus"
I believe I'm clear enough . If you still insist on that claim ,can you give example where the church prayed through the name of Jesus. Rather than IN the name. Which has to do with in his stead and his authority.

Enigma:

^^^Look, just keep out of my way this morning.

Lol, Enigma, good morning!

Na tease o.

But make we no lie, na true talk na, abi na lie. Black man myth = myth. White man myth = sacred truth.

I cannot imagine a deeper or more exhaustive slavery.

@ Joagbaje

Post #72; you will see someone praying through Christ Jesus

Whereas this is what the dumbass author said in your opening post

As Christians, we don’t need an intermediary between us and the Father. Hence we don’t pray to the Father through Jesus, but in the Name of Jesus. To pray through Jesus is to make Him a medium or intermediary to the Father, and that’s wrong. But to pray in the Name of Jesus means your standing in the place of Jesus; you’ve become His voice!

All through the Scriptures, there’s no place where the Christian is asked to pray to Jesus or through Jesus. Neither do you ask the Father to grant your request for “Jesus’ sake,” for God wouldn’t answer your prayers for Jesus’ sake. He loves you as much as He loves Jesus. So when you pray to the Father in the Name of Jesus, it’s as though Jesus Himself were praying, because you stand in His stead.

So you see the dumbass author didn't just say don't pray through Jesus' name! He said don't pray through Jesus.

Enigma:

@ Joagbaje

Post #72; you will see someone praying through Christ Jesus

Whereas this is what the dumbass author said in your opening post
So you see the dumbass author didn't just say don't pray through Jesus' name! He said don't pray through Jesus.

His emphasis was on the use of name of jesus. Read it in contex. There is difference between christ in us as our ability and as a medium or intermediary. In context, the scripture you quoted didn't present christ as an intermediary. You are the one making it so. What ever we do , we do it by. Christ. The emphasis of the post is the use of the name . And I think you should dwell on that.

^^^ Whatever twist you may wish to put to this, the author's own words condemn him as an idiotic and dumbass spreader of an anti-Christ message.

There is no twisting . You missed his point. There is difference between praying to God through Jesus christ. Paul didn't say he was praying to God through Jesus. The use of the word through didn't suggest intermediary but ability. He could have as well used the. Word "by". It's not the same as using Jesus as a medium to reach God. He is the life in us. We work through his ability within.

Joagbaje:

You are right. They speak for him. They speak his speech ,his language and do his will. And that's what we are talking about. We speak his language .

Yes they speak for him, but it does not make them president. The fact that christians have authority does not make them Christ.

But if we can do all things through Christ, why can't we pray through Christ. You're both right in a sense but why do we exert so much on nothing. Don't think God is as interested in our lexis and semantics as He is in faith and the fervent prayer of a RIGHTEOUS man. All our name calling and twistings do not further God's work but self.

Joagbaje:

There is no twisting . You missed his point. There is difference between praying to God through Jesus christ. Paul didn't say he was praying to God through Jesus. The use of the word through didn't suggest intermediary but ability. He could have as well used the. Word "by". It's not the same as using Jesus as a medium to reach God. He is the life in us. We work through his ability within.

@Joagbaje or whatever you call yourself, listen to me before you go out there and start vomiting this piece of poo you call explanation.

It is ok to criticize, test every spirit and disagree with suggestions made by others and still remain God's beloved. If Jesus were on earth today, we don't have to necessarily agree with everything he said, but we could still go to heaven because we're God's children.

Pls and pls stop confusing people with 'praying in Jesus name' and ' praying through Jesus'. Are you guys so dump? Don't you know that whenever you mention Jesus's name in prayers, God immediately relate to that? As long as you call Jesus, you're directly or indirectly telling God that your prayers should be considered by the mentioning of that name.

Pastor Chris should stop calling Jesus whenever he perform  'miracle'. Calling the name of Jesus is not the same thing as standing in Jesus's stead, is it. With this new heresy, I forbid every CE member to call the name of Jesus (call yourself, you're now in Christ stead, abi). Chris should call himself and cast out the devil. He should call God directly and heal the sick.

If I asked what part of Nigeria you're from, You'd tell me 'Zion', abi? Faith does not deny fact. Its good to have faith, its another thing to be entirely silly and religious.

The last few posts help to prompt us in the direction of an explanation. We can go into further detail later but here/now a brief summary.

There are two important principles or two important parts of this issue.

1. Christ in us ----- He indeed gives us power and authority to do various things including approaching the throne of God

2. Us in Christ ---- arguably even more important than 1 above; thus whatever we do pursuant to 1 above only has effect because of this most important no 2. Because we do it in Christ, because when we do it in Christ we do it through Christ, and God answers because of Christ and for Christ's sake.

So Christians should confidently pray in Christ's name, through the name of Christ, through Christ, expect an answer from God for Christ's sake or because of Christ.

All of the above with one important qualification which the likes of the author prefer to ignore: we get the results if we do/pray etc in accordance with the will of God/Jesus.

EDIT from John 15

4 Remain in me, and I will remain in you. No branch can bear fruit by itself; it must remain in the vine. Neither can you bear fruit unless you remain in me.

5 “I am the vine; you are the branches. If a man remains in me and I in him, he will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing. 6 If anyone does not remain in me, he is like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned. 7 If you remain in me and my words remain in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be given you. 8 This is to my Father’s glory, that you bear much fruit, showing yourselves to be my disciples.

Image123:

But if we can do all things through Christ, why can't we pray through Christ.

I wonder! Is giving thanks to God through Christ not praying through Christ?

Romans 1:8 "First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for you all, that your faith is spoken of throughout the whole world."

Romans 7: 24, 25 "Who will rescue me from this body of death? 25 Thanks be to God—through Jesus Christ our Lord!"

What about giving thanks to God for victory through Jesus?

1 Corinthians 15:57 "But thanks [be] to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ."

Image123:
. . . but why do we exert so much on nothing. Don't think God is as interested in our lexis and semantics as He is in faith and the fervent prayer of a RIGHTEOUS man. All our name calling and twistings do not further God's work but self.

1. Unfortunately it is not "nothing"! Experience teaches that those who say the kind of things in the piece in the opening post are working a different agenda which is to drag Jesus down and turn people away from "remaining in Him"!

2. Indeed the fervent prayer of the righteous availeth much and as long as we are in Him and He in us we should not allow any one to deceive us that our prayers will not be heard when we pray through Jesus or even through Jesus' name. As we are taught even when we do not know what to pray for or even how, we still have help!

Romans 8:26

Likewise the Spirit also helps in our weaknesses. For we do not know what we should pray for as we ought, but the Spirit Himself makes intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.