There really in no point in debating christian issues with Joagbaje or anyone else that attends CEC.

Chris Oyakhilome is a fraud who most likely does not even really believe in God (if he did would he be brave enough to fake miracles ?)

There really is no point in debating finer points of christianity with him or his followers.

I have always thought that people when presented with facts would be able to think things through themselves and see sense - but it seems a lot of the followers of these prosperity charlatans refuse to do this.

EarsWide:

There really in no point in debating christian issues with Joagbaje or anyone else that attends CEC.

Chris Oyakhilome is a fraud who most likely does not even really believe in God (if he did would he be brave enough to fake miracles ?)

There really is no point in debating finer points of christianity with him or his followers.

I have always thought that people when presented with facts would be able to think things through themselves and see sense - but it seems a lot of the followers of these prosperity charlatans refuse to do this.

So is that your conclution

@EarsWide, the average pastor is a fraud.

@kandiikane

the average pastor is a fraud

Sad but very true.

Image123:

but why do we exert so much on nothing.

Enigma:

1. Unfortunately it is not "nothing"! Experience teaches that those who say the kind of things in the piece in the opening post are working a different agenda which is to drag Jesus down and turn people away from "remaining in Him"!

Joagbaje now believes he is 'him' (Christ). Jo and his people have taken the doctrine of trinity to another level; membership have been extended to include Jo & co. now we have multiple persons in one God

Zikkyy:

Joagbaje now believes he is 'him' (Christ). Jo and his people have taken the doctrine of trinity to another level; membership have been extended to include Jo & co. now we have multiple persons in one God

Actually, thinking about the line above again and considering a few other things that Joagbaje has said, I would suggest that Joagbaje will soon be interceding for Christ himself.

As Joagbaje said: Christ is now only interceding for Christians and is not an intermediary; Christians are equal with Christ; Christ himself was "born again" (:spit and in the same way as Joagbaje; Christ and Joagbaje are brothers (and yes I am familiar with "I have called you brethren"; Joagbaje and Oyaks now stand in Christ stead (sic) i.e. they now replace Christ etc etc etc ad nauseam

If that is the case and if Christ can intercede for Joagbaje and Oyaks, why also can Joagbaje and Oyaks not intercede for Christ? Afterall they are all equals?

kandiikane:

@EarsWide, the average pastor is a fraud.

So how did you come about you conclution l would want to know

Enigma:

i.e. they now replace Christ etc etc etc ad nauseam

Nobody can replace Christ

newmi

Well, I'm glad to read the above; but you know you never did answer my question even after you invited it! Also remember you were defending the author saying "don't pray through Christ". He said

Hence we don’t pray to the Father through Jesus, but in the Name of Jesus. To pray through Jesus is to make Him a medium or intermediary to the Father, and that’s wrong.

In that event, would you like to compare what the author said there with the prayer below from the book of Hebrews?

Hebrews 13

20Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant, 21Make you perfect in every good work to do his will, working in you that which is wellpleasing in his sight, through Jesus Christ; to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.

Would you say that the writer of Hebrews who prayed through Jesus Christ is wrong and Oyakhilome is right?

Enigma
these people are too proud and arrogant to admit their wrongs and u can't see them correcting one another even after the obvious is stated.

My worry is that anything that oyaks says is the truth and they will take it like that without analyzing such. Even his most deluded pastor, joagbaje can never prove himself wise enough to bring his master's statement to the light of the scriptures instead he will rush to nairaland to display his ignorance.

It is just not wise!

i was reading somewhere that oyakhilome has handed over the church to another minister.

is this true?

While it seems Joagbaje and newmi have gone AWOL, let us deal with a technical issue (in fact first raised by Joagbaje) concerning the word "by".

Let us look at 1 Peter 2:5

KJV

Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.

NKJV

you also, as living stones, are being built up a spiritual house, a holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ.

NIV

you also, like living stones, are being built into a spiritual house to be a holy priesthood, offering spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ.

NLT

And you are living stones that God is building into his spiritual temple. What's more, you are his holy priests. Through the mediation of Jesus Christ, you offer spiritual sacrifices that please God.

OK and in fact I will not make any comment on the above; however I would ask the honest enquirer to follow the link below to learn more about "by" and "through".

http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=G1223&t=KJV

@Enigma
It is interesting the fact you brought up these translations and the inter-usage of the words "by" and "through", but the point l believe Pastor Chris is keen to pass across as explained in the article joagbaje posted is simple which in effect is, whether "by" or "through" it makes no difference especially when one puts into retrospect the Greek word from whence these translations were deduced: the word "dia" which depending on the context could both be translated as "by" or "through" the same goes for several others words like "soteria" for salvation which could also be translated health; safety, deliverance, rescue. You see the point is that now as lively stones (1pet 2:5) because according to Ephesians 2:1nd5-6 we were dead in our sins trespasses but now God has quickened us TOGETHER with Christ and has raised us up TOGETHER with Christ and has made us to sit TOGETHER in heavenly places we can now as priests in the new order (1pet 2:9, Rev 1:6) access The Father boldly (Heb 4:16) with our sacrifice being acceptable to Him IN THE NAME OF JESUS

^^^ So do you still agree with Oyakhilome that Christians should not pray through Jesus?

@Enigma
We pray in His name and by Him (Christ in us)

You are still afraid to disagree with Oyaks publicly? I pray that you be freed from the bondage one day and turn to the true teachings of Christ and His apostles ---- who confidently prayed through Christ. 

Oh by the way - my prayer is made through Jesus Christ and through the name of Jesus Christ, Amen.

I wish the best

Thanks sis, God bless and keep you.

Enigma:

Thanks sis, God bless and keep you.

Oh no! Lol am male. Thank you too

^^^ Didn't realise that, lol; God bless and keep you bros.