birdman:

Always start with C. Always. After mastering C, I've never had any other language take me more than a week to master (if you can name it, I've programmed in it). You could relax the rules and learn Java at the same time. But if you want to write world class code (no memory leaks, security holes etc, ) you have to start with the fundamentals. You also definitely DO NOT want to start with a scripting language. You pick up really bad habits and will shoot yourself in the foot when you move to more powerful languages.

Bah

C sucks bro

You spend too much time focusing on things that don't matter. Memory management in this day and age?  Is that really what someone should be focusing on? I'd rather have someone master unit testing, design patterns, object oriented programming, concepts like that.

C and C++ code is buggier imo. And the errors are more subtle and harder to catch.

Also, kindly explain what bad habits one learns from a WELL DESIGNED scripting language like Python or Ruby (I'm not talking about a junk languages like PHP here).

And in what way is Python less powerful for most applications?

I'm not a fan of C at all for  99% of software that one writes.

Now, if I have to write a compiler, operating system, things of that sort, sure, then use C. But for most software that beginners are likely to write (text processing, some GUI stuff, SQL database stuff), makes way more sense to use a scripting language, imo.

macomrades:

may want to get your hands dirty early on by learning C which is a smaller and also a procedural language but you would gain a lot by understanding the low-level implementation details like manipulating bits in memory etc.

What is up with this fascination of making things hard for new programmers? 

If you have a 13 or 14 year old kid and you want them to get into programming, you'd really want to start them off with low-level stuff like this that is only of interest to a small fraction of programmers?

Only thing this will do is scare away people from programming, suck away their enjoyment.

Anyway, you can do bitwise operations in almost every language. So no reason to choose C alone for that.

I think you guys have the idea that getting as close to the metal as possible is a good way to teach someone programming. Imo, it is way better to treat it like a onion. . . keep things very high-level, then work your way in more deeply as time progresses.

You don't want to lose sight of the big picture, imo

ekt_bear:

Bah

C sucks bro

You spend too much time focusing on things that don't matter. Memory management in this day and age?  Is that really what someone should be focusing on? I'd rather have someone master unit testing, design patterns, object oriented programming, concepts like that.

Lol. People have been saying this for decades, and it still isnt true. If you plan on writing mid-sized to large code bases for corporations and you are competing with other developers, you will worry about it. Ask any IT guy about budget allocatios for equpmet such as servers, memory and storage. You are always under-budgeted. Always.

C and C++ code is buggier imo. And the errors are more subtle and harder to catch.

ITs easy to shoot yourself inthe foot with C no doubt. But its much better to learn not to shoot yourself in the foot, than just switch to an "easier" language. Easier in quote, because as the complexity of your code grows, you will eventually run into trouble if you dont have a C background.

Also, kindly explain what bad habits one learns from a WELL DESIGNED scripting language like Python or Ruby (I'm not talking about a junk languages like PHP here).
And in what way is Python less powerful for most applications?

These are named scripting languages for a reason. They are meant to be like shell scripts. You sacrifice performance for a good API that lets you do powerful things quickly. There is absolutely nothing wrong with this. Scripting languages have been used by experts since sed, awk, ,  BUT, they cannot be your basis for learning programming. Why? The API acts as an opaque barrier, preventing you from seeing what is going on under the hood. Try writing a high-impact database app or graphics app with Python and watch your company go under.

I'm not a fan of C at all for  99% of software that one writes.

No worries, every one has their preference.

Now, if I have to write a compiler, operating system, things of that sort, sure, then use C. But for most software that beginners are likely to write (text processing, some GUI stuff, SQL database stuff), makes way more sense to use a scripting language, imo.

A few years back, PHP was all the rage in web programming. Sweet APIs meant you could do all sorts of great stuff and not worry about whats under the hood. Or so people thought. Until code complexity went up, hosting bandwidth cost went up as more people started using the web, and hosts started metering intensive CPU applications (if your app is using too many CPU cycles, it gets metered wether you know it or not. Your users will sometimes see a sluggish or no response from your site). A good number of websites couldn't handle load, and they had to switch to well designed packages like Joomla and Drupal (my favorite). Guuess what the developers of the packages had. A good low-level background of how programs run on computers.


In short, You need C. Always. In a competitive business environment, memory, processing power and storage will never be cheap. If you want to be a world-class programmer, there is no shortcut. Hopefully my post doesn't sound condescending in any way,

I'm reposting this so the OP has a better chance of seeing it:

We are overanalyzing his problem, people. The boy wants to learn PROGRAMMING. He doesnt know squat yet.

Once he understands PROGRAMMING, then he will be able to learn any PROGRAMMING LANGUAGE he wants in a few days max. Then you can start looking at stuff like, 'are there good prospects' or 'what are the career options', etc.

@Topic:

My friend, these are the two languages you should use to learn PROGRAMMING. Once you understand programming, then your next question will be
"What language is best for web development?" and then we can start arguing about php, python, etc.

Here are the answers:

1. To learn HOW TO PROGRAM: Use visual basic. Dont listen to what anyone else says. It is super easy and you will quickly grasp the basics.

2. To learn OBJECT ORIENTED PROGRAMMING: Use Java. It has the double benefit of being commercially successful, and in high demand but most importantly, a lot of quality info on the net about OOP assumes you know java. Also, it is a way to graduate from the hand-holding IDE of visual basic (you will learn what an IDE is when u study VB) to a less hand-holdy environment.

When you are through learning, from there you can jump into ANY language. Trust me. Follow this path and you can't go wrong!

@birdman

Yes, C will always be needed but 90% of programmers will never use it.

Just like 99% of C programmers will never use assembler.

And the truth is, C can never ever ever in a million years be able to match up to assembler when it comes to pure raw speed (6502 assembly programmer speaking)

@ Original poster

Dont be confused by all these holy wars. Just follow my advice above for the fastest easiest route. Visual Basic to start off, then move to java. VB is the easiest language to learn and Java is the best documented and easiest "real" language to learn.

You can go on to C, C++ and assembler later when Siemens hires you to program their nuclear reactors.

LOL! @blindcopy. Nuclear reactor ke? Well, I'm sure the OP is smart enough to make his/her own decision from all the opinions on this thread. Whatever you choose, best of luck to you. Determination is key.

Blindcopy and I are mostly on the same page.

Is Visual Basic really easier to learn than than Python (or Ruby)?

Or is it the visualization/GUI stuff that I guess you find makes it superior?

how about taking a look @ being a web programmer
HTML and ASP.Net would not be a bad start or PHP


Every Web developer has to know the building blocks of the Web: HTML 4.01
CSS
XHTML
XML and XSLT
JavaScript
ASP or PHP
Managing data with SQL
The future of the Web

08026393592 gbengalite@yahoo.com

As some people have said, Visual Basic is best suited for beginners. Do not start with C or even C++. They are more complex. A task that you can accomplish with 5 lines of code in VB may require 20 or more lines in C. Take the classic "Hello World" as an example:

Hello World in VB6:

Private Sub Command1_Click()

Msgbox "Hello Word"

End Sub


Hello World in C:

/* Hello World program */

#include<stdio.h>

main()

{

   printf("Hello World";

}

As you can see, VB took only 3 lines while C took 6. Also VB was practically written in plain English, while C involves a lot of computer jargon.

Start with this book and go from there: "Beginning Visual Basic 6 by Peter Wright". Like most beginner books, it assumes that you know absolutely nothing about the subject.

Good luck.

BizBooks:

As some people have said, Visual Basic is best suited for beginners. Do not start with C or even C++. They are more complex. A task that you can accomplish with 5 lines of code in VB may require 20 or more lines in C. Take the classic "Hello World" as an example:

Hello World in VB6:

Private Sub Command1_Click()

Msgbox "Hello Word"

End Sub


Hello World in C:

/* Hello World program */

#include<stdio.h>

main()

{

   printf("Hello World";

}

As you can see, VB took only 3 lines while C took 6. Also VB was practically written in plain English, while C involves a lot of computer jargon.

Start with this book and go from there: "Beginning Visual Basic 6 by Peter Wright". Like most beginner books, it assumes that you know absolutely nothing about the subject.

Good luck.

hehe, VBA might even be a better way to go, "rock your excel world"

no listen to people. just start with python. Some think python is weak. I tel u dat is lie, c is good but very hard to masta, python is very izi and has oop like java. 3 months r enuf 4 u 2 masta. Den go to c++. Google run on python. And python get a big komunity and u fit combine d 2 languej. It is called embedding

blindcopy:

We are overanalyzing his problem, people. The boy wants to learn PROGRAMMING. He doesnt know squat yet.

Once he understands PROGRAMMING, then he will be able to learn any PROGRAMMING LANGUAGE he wants in a few days max. Then you can start looking at stuff like, 'are there good prospects' or 'what are the career options', etc.

@Topic:

My friend, these are the two languages you should use to learn PROGRAMMING. Once you understand programming, then your next question will be
"What language is best for web development?" and then we can start arguing about php, python, etc.

Here are the answers:

1. To learn HOW TO PROGRAM: Use visual basic. Dont listen to what anyone else says. It is super easy and you will quickly grasp the basics.

2. To learn OBJECT ORIENTED PROGRAMMING: Use Java. It has the double benefit of being commercially successful, and in high demand but most importantly, a lot of quality info on the net about OOP assumes you know java. Also, it is a way to graduate from the hand-holding IDE of visual basic (you will learn what an IDE is when u study VB) to a less hand-holdy environment.

When you are through learning, from there you can jump into ANY language. Trust me. Follow this path and you can't go wrong!

Thanks man. Your point is well noted. Thanks a million!

BizBooks:

As some people have said, Visual Basic is best suited for beginners. Do not start with C or even C++. They are more complex. A task that you can accomplish with 5 lines of code in VB may require 20 or more lines in C. Take the classic "Hello World" as an example:

Hello World in VB6:

Private Sub Command1_Click()

Msgbox "Hello Word"

End Sub


Hello World in C:

/* Hello World program */

#include<stdio.h>

main()

{

   printf("Hello World";

}

As you can see, VB took only 3 lines while C took 6. Also VB was practically written in plain English, while C involves a lot of computer jargon.

Start with this book and go from there: "Beginning Visual Basic 6 by Peter Wright". Like most beginner books, it assumes that you know absolutely nothing about the subject.

Good luck.

Thanks brov. I like the way you have broken it down and made it so clear. Thanks.

Start with Python. Add C#.  I don talk my own.

ekt_bear:

If you are just starting out with learning how to program, I'd suggest first mastering a scripting language of some sort.

I use Ruby personally, but I'd suggest Python for someone starting from scratch (Lisp and Scheme are also pretty popular in academic/"first course on computer science" circles.)

So why a scripting language? Generally less code written to accomplish the same tasks as compiled languages like Java, C++ and C. Which means more time focusing on the big picture than on details, and thus more time actually learning important concepts. Reducing the amount of time it takes for you to go from "I'd like to write an application that does X" to actually rolling out that application I think is kind of important when you first start programming. . . it helps you stay motivated. And with the libraries available today, pretty much anything you want to do with a compiled language you can do with a scripting language. . . with Ruby I recently wrote some numerical linear algebra software. And you can also do GUIs, etc, etc.

Of course, there is a downside with interpreted languages. . . they usually are a bit slower than compiled languages. But for you, since you are starting from scratch and mainly trying to teach yourself, performance doesn't really matter at this point.

Now, if you get serious about programming or want to do it for a career, at some point you'll need to pick up additional languages. For example, if you follow my advice and master Python, your next job/project might end up using Java instead (for example.)

From what I've seen, the first language you learn is very unlikely to be the one you end up using later in life 

Fortunately, once you master one programming language, to add the next one basically is just learning new syntax. I guess that is why I emphasize picking a relatively easy but expressive, well-designed language to start (like Python) so you can master the important ideas.

Thanks for your several posts on the topic. I get your point. Thanks!!

dem_people:

@OP,

I'll be simplistic as possible in other not to confuse you. Don't mind Beaf and his C#.

As an Enterprise Architect, I'm not gonna lie to you or deceive you. It depends on what part of programming you're interested in. If its enterprise application development then java is your best bet. It's API is larger than windows among other benefits.

The amount of jobs in java is way more than C#. If its hardware specific application development  then you're indeed talking about using C++ together with Very High Speed Integrated Circuit Hardware Description Language (VHDL) or Verilog. When in combination, you're winner. Companies would throw money at you.

My main advise is this. You need to understand the fundamentals of Object Oriented Programming (OOP) in other to understand C++, Java or C#. Java itself is 100% OOP (Except with primitives which when wrapped with wrappers, acts as objects which can be used in arrays and collections (generics)).

And so if you've not programmed before then you could start with the C -language in other to understand procedural programming and then, migrating to Java where you'll appreciate OOP better.

Java is also better than C++ in terms of inheritance, garbage collection & memory management etc. Also, the use of pointers in C++ is a no-no as non-expert usage of it, can severely crash a program etc but, I wouldn't get too technical with you so as not to confuse you but, I'm trying to "excite" you!

Go with Java. Recommended books; Thinking in Java (Bruce Eckel). If this book is too boring for you then try  the humoristic "Head First Java" ( Sierra & Bates).

Thanks for your insightful post.

Seun:

Start with Python. Add C#. I don talk my own.

Thanks ooo! A quick question, is it practical and possible for me to learn C# with no background knowledge on say C or C+. I mean would it be easy for me to understand or understand at all?

Blog icon:


Thanks ooo! A quick question, is it practical and possible for me to learn C# with no background knowledge on say C or C+. I mean would it be easy for me to understand or understand at all?

it all depends on whether you truly have a grasp of what programming (algorithm) is all about.

Like some have advised, get on with scripting language like python, get a feel of what it is like, then move on from there.

Once you have a grasp, you can learn any language. It's all down to structure, syntax, style, etc.

I still think you should get your hands on good oleh VB - low level, C - mid/high level before moving on to C++
-high level language.

nuteshell, you don't have to be a C/C++ guru to be able to learn/understand C# but doing so we help you get a grasp of the nitty gritty of designing, writing, testing/debugging, deployment/backlopping-whatelse isnt doing what - which are a common but unique feature in every language you programme in.

I will rather learn Perl instead of python.

@gbengalite: You said what a lot of ppl did no say. XML and so one. A programmer should know Procedural language, and OOP very very.
Your SQL should be very super. Your should know JAVA for OOP and "C" for the procedural,

The other stuff you muss know.

1. Linux OS
2. CSS, PHP, XML
3. Webservices ( that is the further) so therefore your Java EE should be to advanced level.

You will learn other technologies when you need them. But be warned known the above does not make you a good programmer. You must know your mathematics for computer scientist very well.

Good programmer/ programming no be moin moin talk. Na real brain work. I guess una never start for 9ja.

The poster appears to be a beginner. Let us not confuse him. HTML, CSS, XML, SQL are not programming languages. They are technologies. You have to count 1 before 2.

Hello guys
I have read your comments with much interest and i am so impressed with the comments posted

However i have a major problem, i am a financial professional but i have had to use Ms excel on an intermediate level at work
i am really interested in learning the Visual basic Application (VBA) for Excel, so that i could write codes to customize my work sheets and make my work easier
Please can anyone in the house tell me how to go about this and recommend to me any tution house in NIGERIA (LAGOS) where i could learn this Programming language or any other related Language

thanks for your time

Bounce714:

Hello guys
I have read your comments with much interest and i am so impressed with the comments posted

However i have a major problem, i am a financial  professional but i have had to use Ms excel on an intermediate  level at work
i am really interested in learning the Visual basic Application  (VBA) for Excel, so that i could write codes to customize my work sheets and make my work easier
Please can anyone in the house tell me how to go about this and recommend to me any tution house in NIGERIA  (LAGOS)  where i could learn this Programming language or any other related Language

thanks for your time

Dude, you really do not need a school or a lesson house for you to learn VBA. I have tons of e-books of VBA for dummies (very simple yet cool steps)that you can use to learn VBA on either excel 2007/2003 versions and become a pro in les than six months!

Get in touch e-mail and i can forward some to use but that is if you have your own pc/laptop with MS excel 2003/2007.VBA learning is more of lots of pratical and you get to learn lots of tricky twicky as you get along by recording macro.

z.anthony:

I am also a new programmer I don't know which is the best but from my findings and research someone I was told that it will be best to start with c++

that it is a very good language to start with but I am suprised that a lot of people tend to advise more of c# rather than c++ please what is the difference and which do we

think it is better to start with and between the two languages which is more recent than the other many Thanks

how recent a language is shouldn't really be an issue. Fortran is as old as advanced BASIC yet most of your engineering applications that crunch heavy duty numbers behind are still being developed in Fortran. Same goes for C/C++.

I wouldn't want to have a go at C# 'cos 'm strongly the C/C++ baised type.

@ Omo_Tier1

Well the truth Is I have been trying to learn it on my own, but i only got as far as recording MACROS, too much programming terminology which aint ma field
well the good news is you seem to be well grounded in that aspect so "I go dey relate with you well well"
ma email addy is jbouncesquare4life@yahoo.com

please help your guy.

java dead and long buried. php& .net rules the web. loooking 4 a language SPEAK THE UNIVERSAL LANGUAGE. most java programmers are migrating or they snuff.

BizBooks:

As some people have said, Visual Basic is best suited for beginners. Do not start with C or even C++. They are more complex. A task that you can accomplish with 5 lines of code in VB may require 20 or more lines in C. Take the classic "Hello World" as an example:

Hello World in VB6:

Private Sub Command1_Click()

Msgbox "Hello Word"

End Sub


Hello World in C:

/* Hello World program */

#include<stdio.h>

main()

{

   printf("Hello World";

}

As you can see, VB took only 3 lines while C took 6. Also VB was practically written in plain English, while C involves a lot of computer jargon.

Start with this book and go from there: "Beginning Visual Basic 6 by Peter Wright". Like most beginner books, it assumes that you know absolutely nothing about the subject.

Good luck.

and in python, the hello world program is simply;     Print "hello world"
(just one line)
another example:
                             foo=bar
                             print bar
                              foo                

you see, python is very great for beginners, in fact python is the BASIC of today. Like I said before Google runs their website on python, and python is here to stay for a long long time to come.  because python is very much closer to the English language and closer  to c++ (C++ is the Ferrari of programming world) than any other language.  Look if you want a Job at Google, you must know python (just to let you know the power of python)
I am advocating python so much because the syntax is simple, It has OOP features and powerful and it makes use of white spaces

probably vb is the easiest for newbie

or you can try hausa

,

C:\>python
Python 3.2 (r32:88445, Feb 20 2011, 21:30:00) [MSC v.1500 64 bit (AMD64)] on win32
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> import this
The Zen of Python, by Tim Peters

[size=14pt]Beautiful is better than ugly.
Explicit is better than implicit.
Simple is better than complex.
Complex is better than complicated.
Flat is better than nested.
Sparse is better than dense.
Readability counts.
Special cases aren't special enough to break the rules.
Although practicality beats purity.
Errors should never pass silently.
Unless explicitly silenced.
In the face of ambiguity, refuse the temptation to guess.
There should be one-- and preferably only one --obvious way to do it.
Although that way may not be obvious at first unless you're Dutch.
Now is better than never.
Although never is often better than *right* now.
If the implementation is hard to explain, it's a bad idea.
If the implementation is easy to explain, it may be a good idea.
Namespaces are one honking great idea -- let's do more of those![/size]
>>>

You get the picture? Python ROCKS!!!!

cocoduck:

and in python, the hello world program is simply;     Print "hello world"
(just one line)

I have heard a lot of programmers speak highly of Python. I know nothing about Python but thinks your code may be incomplete. You did not specify the event that will trigger 'Print "hello world". Is it the click of a button, form load event or what? Include the event in your code so we know exactly how many lines it takes.

In the VB6 example, I could have simply said:

MsgBox "Hello World"

But you and I know that is not a complete code and will not work.

BizBooks:

I have heard a lot of programmers speak highly of Python. I know nothing about Python but thinks your code may be incomplete. You did not specify the event that will trigger 'Print "hello world". Is it the click of a button, form load event or what? Include the event in your code so we know exactly how many lines it takes.

In the VB6 example, I could have simply said:

MsgBox "Hello World"

But you and I know that is not a complete code and will not work.

aint no specifying of any event triggering "Hello world" . The code is as complete as 24 hours is for a day. Thats all you need to print hello word. No imports, no #includes, no semi-columns, no variable declarations, no main methods or classes.

Voila, just type that and you are good to go. Too good to be true right? That's Python for u. Very easy indeed. The Zens above explains it all: Simple is better than complex.