I don't really understand what is going on with most Nigerian Pastors as regards their sermons.Most preach same thing on success,success.No wonder most people hardly have an encounter with God.What should be done to check this drift?

I don't think Gospel Preachers are motivational speakers. Most preachers I have met are quite judgemental and prejudiced. The reason Nigerian churches are flourishing is because pastors are giving people what the majority want - material wealth, visions and miracles. These preachers should be more concerned about meeting the spiritual needs of their flock.

The only way it can be stopped is when more church goers start placing emphasis on spiritual enlightenment and stop chasing after miracles.

Don't find this offensive, but I perceive you have never known THE GOSPEL of Jesus.

Gospel means good news

No one is motivated by bad news

sure.

most pastors are motivational speakers just to win more people.

i don't know if you've considered Pastor (Dr.) Kumuyi.

he is an example the rest of the pastors/preachers should follow.

and the deeper life church (3rd Largest in the world) keeps growing from day to day though P. Kumuyi preaches only on Holiness.

wots ur opinion about my post?

join the Deeper LIfe Bible Church if you want to refrain from "Motivational speakers".

Stay Blessed

I don't analyse pastors. I am a committed member where I am. And I'm sold out for the vision even if it sounds like motivational speaking.
Thanks for the invite though, it displays your commitment.

However, I need you to consider that no matter the words pastor kumuyi or any other pastor preach, whether it sounds motivational or not, it is the holy spirit who interpretes the words into the hearts of men. If people believe and are being transformed and made better in such churches, then let them be.

And besides, the bible says in Thessalonians 5:21

Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.

It boils down to a personal factor, I observe!

Word!

Papa:

Don't find this offensive, but I perceive you have never known THE GOSPEL of Jesus.

Gospel means good news

No one is motivated by bad news

That doesn't necessarily mean that preachers of the Gospel should parade themselves as what we understand by "Motivational Speakers". Ministers of the Gospel preach Jesus Christ and the Cross (1 Cor. 2:2); Motivational Speakers abound - and not all are actually preaching the Gospel.

What is the preaching of the cross except freedom from sin, sickness, poverty, death, and the devil.

That cross tells of my complete victory for He was wounded for my transgressions, bruised for my iniquities; the chastizement that brought me peace was upon Him and with His stripes, I was healed glory!

It is a joy to suffer for the sake of the gospel. There is no reason to be sorrowful for we have joy in the Holy ghost.

@donnie,

There's a difference between ministers of the Gospel and those who are known as Motivational Speakers. I hope you can understand that simply?

I undersdand that. Thank you.

No worries.

@topic,

I started noticing this same "problem" while in naija a few years back. I remember my Pastor mentioning how easy it is to teach the Bible and yet never talk about Jesus. That led me to pay a closer attention to people's teachings and I realise how true his statement is.

I think it was Mike Murdock who said the entire Bible teaches us two main things: the life of Jesus and the principles of Jesus. It is unfortunate that many now focus on His principles while "not holding the Head" as Paul rightly put it. When you teach His principles without teaching His person, you are no more than a motivational preacher. Unfortunately, while His principles will bless anyone (including unbelievers), it is His life that will save us.

An unbeliever who lives by His principles will surely prosper, likewise a believer. An unbel who sows will reap, an unbel who works hard will prosper and an unbel who casts his bread on the water will find it after many days. These are natural principles which when put to work, will work!

On the other hand, people will be deceived when all they hear are His principles which has propered them becuase they put it to practice. Their apparent success makes it seem as if all is well when in the true sense, they lack the vital relationship for the salvation of their souls. One of the scripture that touched me the most during my study was Romans 11:9 And David saith, Let their table be made a snare, and a trap, and a stumblingblock, and a recompence unto them: In other words, the success they have based on teaching and imbibing Jesus' principles was now a stumbling block to their seeking what truly matters - His life. And that is the problem with unbalanced motivational teaching.

That is why my motto till date remains Acts 17:28 For in him we live, and move, and have our being; Anything I do, teach or say must have its source in Him, must be sustained by Him and must glorify Him. If I am disconnected from the Head at any stage, I lose my reward. This is the balance that needs to be taught along with all these motivational teachings.

@TayoD,

I don't even know where to start from in yours above. I'd just say that I enjoyed every bit of it. Blessings.

@ TayoD,

Is that you? Greetings. Nice, tightly scripted and pertinent post. Looks like the sabbatical has reinvigorated you. You should go away more often, we all should !

God bless bro'
TV

@TV01,

That seems to be a very verbous way of saying you miss me?

TayoD:

That seems to be a very verbous way of saying you miss me?

If only you knew mate . There's a paucity of real characters and stimulating conversation in this joint nowadays.

I love it that you are rational in your thinking my friends, but the gospel is beyond the rationality of the mind. It all together superceedes the interllectual dimension of life, so you can't even try to argue it.

Jesus said preach the good news. Maybe I should highlight to you again that the point according to JESUS is GOOD NEWS That's in the Mark 16:15

Again in Matthew 24:14 He said "And THIS gospel of the kingdom shall be preached for a WITNESS unto all nations, ". Notice He said "'THIS' gospel" of the kingdom and NOT "THE gospel" of the kingdom. So you are right there are many gospels, however, THIS is the one He wants preached.

Don't get me wrong, but Jesus ain't stupid, He knows no poor man will come and receive His life if it carries the message of poverty, neither will a sick man, if its message was disease, nor a failure if the message was failure - He's already a failure, he already feels down, how much more of it does he want before he commits suicide like many who have gone before him without receiving Christ's life JUST because no one could present that life attractive enough.

It is those attractive, motivating things we preach about this life to motivate the man to come and receive the life.

Didn't you read Jesus say ", if I be lifted [beautified and made attractive], I will draw all men unto me, "?

Go check on it! You have not receive the gospel of Jesus if you're not motivated to talk to someone else about Him.
And please tell me, a poor street dude turn rich by the message you call motivational or the guy who was rich and didn't get any richer 'because some guy says ", otherwise you'll go to hell, " who's going to be more grateful and motivated!?

Even Jesus gave such a parable of 2 servants who were forgiven debt. The guy who was shown more grace was more grateful!!!

What do you think Jesus was saying when He said "I came for the sick, not for the healthy; for the healthy need no physician."

Wake up people! Wake up! See things rightly! You are carnally listening to the message wrongly, while another man gratefully seats, listens, hears, receives the message and gets born-again.

The bible says "Whatever is true, whatever is honest, whatever is just, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is of good report; if there be any virtue; if there be any praise, think on these things [ALONE] ,  and the God of peace will be with you." Philippians 4: 8-9

If what you think about a message that gets people born-again is not true AND honest AND just AND pure AND lovely AND of good report AND praise-worthy, then here's my advice,

STOP THE DEVIL FROM BIRTHING IN YOU A THOUGHT THAT HINDERS MEN FROM GOING TO HEAVEN IF THAT'S THE ONLY MESSAGE THAT WILL MOTIVATE, CONVINCE AND CONVICT

That is what it is all about,stay alife,if you need somebody to tell you that,then listen,but the funny thing is that we all have the gift,a little bit of understanding will set you free,then you will be the one.

@Papa,

Thanks for the exhortations. However, there's a VERY thick wall between those we know as MINISTERS of the Gospel and those who have a career as MOTIVATIONAL SPEAKERS! If you're still somewhat confused between the two, please see the following weblinks

http://www.ghinsberg.com/
http://www.bigspeak.com/about-big-speak.html
http://premierespeakers.com/

. . . and tell if what you peruse there can be regarded as the Biblical ministry of preaching the Cross for the salvation of the lost (1 Cor. 2:2)! You can't mix up the commercial business world with the eternal life-changing Ministry of our Redeemer. I understand your persuasion to 'motivate' people for the latter; but don't thereby confuse that for the former.

Papa:

Didn't you read Jesus say ", if I be lifted [beautified and made attractive], I will draw all men unto me, "?

You asked that we go check on it - and I did. Here is the text:

John 12:32-33 -- "And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me. This he said, signifying what death he should die."

The context is clear and self-explanatory. Jesus did not mean that His being 'lifted up' was to be 'beautified and made attractive'. Not at all. I guess it is for people like some of us who might have thought so, that the Holy Spirit interpreted that passage so we don't substitute our own thoughts and make it say what it doesn't.

Papa:

Go check on it! You have not receive the gospel of Jesus if you're not motivated to talk to someone else about Him.
And please tell me, a poor street dude turn rich by the message you call motivational or the guy who was rich and didn't get any richer 'because some guy says ", otherwise you'll go to hell, " who's going to be more grateful and motivated!?

Jesus warned people about the reality of Hell - and He did so several times and emphatically:

Matt. 5:29 -- "And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell."

Matt. 11:21-23 -- "Woe unto thee, Chorazin! woe unto thee, Bethsaida! for if the mighty works, which were done in you, had been done in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes. But I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for Tyre and Sidon at the day of judgment, than for you. And thou, Capernaum, which art exalted unto heaven, shalt be brought down to hell: for if the mighty works, which have been done in thee, had been done in Sodom, it would have remained until this day."

If the focus of the Gospel was to make people financially successful overnight without the core concern for the salvation of their soul, dear Papa, you've missed out already! Poor and rich people alike are invited to the rich grace of God in Christ Jesus to SAVE their souls and find redemption, forgiveness and eternal life freely offered in Him. Any so-called 'motivational' message that seeks to make a poor soul rich and 'motivate' the rich to not stop getting 'any richer' without the core concern for the saving of their souls is a waste of time, purpose and simply civilized religion.

Papa:

What do you think Jesus was saying when He said "I came for the sick, not for the healthy; for the healthy need no physician."

Matt. 9:10-13 -- "And it came to pass, as Jesus sat at meat in the house, behold, many publicans and sinners came and sat down with him and his disciples. And when the Pharisees saw it, they said unto his disciples, Why eateth your Master with publicans and sinners? But when Jesus heard that, he said unto them, They that be whole need not a physician, but they that are sick. But go ye and learn what that meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance."

The answer is in verse 13. He was not dealing with physical healing there - but rather the spiritual condition of sinners who need to repent and receive forgiveness unto salvation. That does not mean I don't believe in healing - I do. But the text is clear that it was rather a matter of sinners who need to repent.

Papa:

If what you think about a message that gets people born-again is not true AND honest AND just AND pure AND lovely AND of good report AND praise-worthy, then here's my advice,

I'm sure MOTIVATIONAL SPEAKERS who are gurus of the business world and personal potential expounders are not seeking the message of the Cross to pass on to their recipients.

Please what kind of motivational speakers are we referring to here? is it business seminar lecturers?

benit:

Please what kind of motivational speakers are we referring to here? is it business seminar lecturers?

A beg help me ask them

@benit, @mellow, THANK YOU!!!

After reading pilgrim.1's post I'm made to think Who exactly are we talking about?

Because we both sound like we're talking about the same thing from different view points simply to me.

@Papa, mellow, and benit

Please take a look at those links I posted - answers to your questions are there. I asked a question after posting those links:

If you're still somewhat confused between the two, please see the following weblinks

http://www.ghinsberg.com/
http://www.bigspeak.com/about-big-speak.html
http://premierespeakers.com/

. . . and tell if what you peruse there can be regarded as the Biblical ministry of preaching the Cross for the salvation of the lost (1 Cor. 2:2)!

Has anyone among you gone to those links yet?

The core concern here is simple: Motivational Speakers Or Gospel Preachers?

We know who Gospel Preachers are. But do you know the same thing as those called "MOTIVATIONAL SPEAKERS"?

I beg una well-well to look well before you clap for yourselves.

I took out time to check your links, motivational speakers are Seminar lecturers and they are different from gospel preachers. It's no news.

benit:

I took out time to check your links, motivational speakers are Seminar lecturers and they are different from gospel preachers. It's no news.

Thanks.


@Papa, I hope you can see the difference as well?

I'm not stupid pilgrim.1 I think before I talk. The first thing I did was look at those links. would you just explain what difference you are seeing that is not as obvious.

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THE PASTORS OF THESE DAYS JUST WANT TO MAKE MAONEY
AND HAVE MORE WORSHIPERS, I STILL PREFFER PASTORS
LIKE, KUMUYI AND PASTOR LAZARUS MOUKA,'' WHO PREACHES
ON HOW A CHRISTIAN SHOULD LIVE A HOLY LIFE AND SALVATION.
A CHRISTIAN IS NOT A SINNER AND A SINNER IS NOT A CHRISTIAN
BY PASTOR LAZARUS MOUKA,
WITHOUT HOLINESS, NO EYE SAHLL SEE THE LORD, BY PASTOR
W. F. KUMMUYI,

Papa:

I'm not stupid pilgrim.1 I think before I talk. The first thing I did was look at those links. would you just explain what difference you are seeing that is not as obvious.

Don't confuse yourself. I didn't make you stupid if you wanted to make yourself such. Any careful observer knows there's a huge difference between the two; and if you knew the difference earlier, why was it taking you that long to see it? This is what you said earlier:

Papa:

After reading pilgrim.1's post I'm made to think Who exactly are we talking about?

Because we both sound like we're talking about the same thing from different view points simply to me.

What is the correlation between "the same thing" and "different things"? Point made: they are NOT the same.

Language @Pilgrim.1, language. . .

I see the kind of person you are, and I think it's good - really! It's good, I've been there done that, and have grown so let's leave this where it is.

Good thing you believe something though, because I happen to know where we'll end if I don't stop you here.

You just hold on to what's true. Love you lots!

No worries.

@Poster

This is what is called the Gospel of The Slaughter.

The Church of Ichabod likes to hear it. Nothing is done by God again but by their ways.

The people of this Church end up running after material wealth and ending up miserable.

You don't worry God is setting the difference between the Shiloh Church and Ichabod.

I love Pastor Kumuyi But I know there are so many people that are in the church are from the Ichabod Church . They are in the Church of Shiloh But there are hearts are in the Church of Ichabod.