Poanan:


How many has the the subsidy removed so far in electricity attracted?

The states should by equity in the electricity companies that service their states, Governors have nothing to show, other than employing & paying civil servants that add no value to the system.

Fourwinds:



You are a typical demonic Nigerian politician

Thanks for being courteous, particularly as most Nigerian polticans have never supported removing subsides since the onset of democracy when they were in power.

There is a reason why I support subsidy removal...and it has to do with the fact that the N1 trillon spent on subsidy this year could have enrolled 1million Nigerians on NHIS. Instead we threw that money away

Also subsides is why the pertoleum sector has not been able to earn enough profit and repair refinereis, and is the soruce of a lot of waste and corruption.

Again thanks for being courteous.

.....

People buy transformers, poles etc for their community, did NEPA ever considered those facilities as community facilities? All the money saved from looting , no government has ever accounted for it . now you want me to believe that when subsidies go ,everything will fall in place...to me ,you just wrote jargons. Paper jargons as usual

People buy cables, poles, transformers simply because

1.Government price controls means that power companies cannot make enough cash to pay for all of that..so people have to buy it.

The power companies have been operating at a loss since 2012 (I'll post a link and a graphic showing why)..and the subsidy paid to cover that loss is enough to keep them from going under...but does nothing for their operating costs.

2.If power companies were allowed to charge market prices..ie subsides go..yes we would pay higher for power, but in return they would buy cables, trransformers, etc instead of us doing so..because NOW they can afford it.

I went to a private school in the 1980's. School fees there were five times higher than the government school..which was closer to my house (and my parents had to take side hustles to pay such fees...rich they weren't then). In return for high fees...we got desks, chairs, exercise books when we needed them, textbooks, pencils and biros.

Then I went to a government secondary school..where fees were cheap. Thus I had to buy books, textbooks , writing materials, etc...while I had to make my own chair and desk.

Modified

1.LINK as promised

backbencher:


Yes, subsidy was a bad decision, economically speaking.

But every time government suggested complete subsidy removal..from 1993 to date, Nigerians have always said NO. (That's why even people like Abacha never contemplated subsidy removal totally).

All government can do is to reduce subsidy payments from time to time when the cost of producing petrol rises. (which manifests as a price increase...and which means all is well, until the cost of producing a liter of fuel rises again)...ie periodic partial subsidy removals...which have happened several times for over 3 decades.

Now we are a t a point where falling oil prices means it has to go....or we keep on taking more loans (which IMF doesn't want us to do, because they are tired of us doing so).

I keep asking myself, why will what I produce be expensive for my consumption? Simple, the Nigeria government failed to train Nigerians for the job...the Chinese government train a lot of Chinese in the united states for the production of phones, cars, machines etc . so can a Chinese say he or she can not afford phone or car or tractor? Many of you are just dull and foolish

IMF LOAN = IMF AUSTERITY MEASURES = CURRENCY DEVALUATION!

Subsidy began 30+ years ago when Babangida and Abacha allowed the 4 NNPC refineries to fall into disrepair and didn't build any new ones to meet the demands of the growing domestic market.

They discovered that through the so called "subsidy" of refining petroleum abroad, they could award contracts to their cronies and enrich themselves.

The domestic market for petroleum continued to grow, so the racket in subsidy grew to the point where it became unmanageable. Now that they can no longer make money from the scheme, they want to pass the entirety of the financial burden of refining petroleum abroad onto the shoulders of Nigerians.

backbencher:


Yes, subsidy was a bad decision, economically speaking.

But every time government suggested complete subsidy removal..from 1993 to date, Nigerians have always said NO. (That's why even people like Abacha never contemplated subsidy removal totally).

All government can do is to reduce subsidy payments from time to time when the cost of producing petrol rises. (which manifests as a price increase...and which means all is well, until the cost of producing a liter of fuel rises again)...ie periodic partial subsidy removals...which have happened several times for over 3 decades.

Now we are a t a point where falling oil prices means it has to go....or we keep on taking more loans (which IMF doesn't want us to do, because they are tired of us doing so).

Fourwinds:


I keep asking myself, why will what I produce be expensive for my consumption? Simple, the Nigeria government failed to train Nigerians for the job..

No, because of subsidies, there weren't enough profits made to keep refineries running well.

Simply put, government was forcing fuel to be sold at a cheap price, the cost of prodcing that fuel was going up, and the subsidy being paid was not covering the losses...then crude oil revenues are never stable enough to help us afford subsides

.the Chinese government train a lot of Chinese in the united states for the production of phones, cars, machines etc . so can a Chinese say he or she can not afford phone or car or tractor?

Well, 51% of chinese live in poverty.(I once watched a documentary on migrant chinese workers..not easy viewing)

Plus China crucially relies on exporting industrial products. Nigeria does not. And they make money from doing so because with industrial products they can control the prices. Nigeria, having always been an resource dependent over importer, doesn't.( and with the way many Nigerians mock domestic products...)

China also does not subsidize fuel...as it would be an expense.

That hypothesis does not work in Nigeria...

backbencher:
If subsidy goes, investment flows in...meaning more and more jobs

Also, more and more taxable income.

But Nigerians want cheap fuel and cheap power...

Poanan:


How many has the the subsidy removed so far in electricity attracted?

What happens in the power sector is that government from time to time reduces the amount of money spent subsiding power which manifests as a price increase.

This it does because the cost of producing power rises at a higher rate than the level at which subsides can cover it.

(Power sector subsides are covered by loans and by government money )

adamsmith914:
The states should by equity in the electricity companies that service their states, Governors have nothing to show, other than employing & paying civil servants that add no value to the system.

There u go again. So do u buy equity in a firm forcefully? Why cant u say u and I should be free to buy into the electricity companies? Do u think they dont have subsidized things abroad? IMF is only saying that cos they are tired of giving out loans. When they go to take those loans we dont know what is in the proposal.

Chieffoo007:
Davido
For president 2023

Its a good gesture but don't be carried away!

Fourwinds:



You are a typical demonic Nigerian politician..... People buy transformers, poles etc for their community, did NEPA ever considered those facilities as community facilities? All the money saved from looting , no government has ever accounted for it . now you want me to believe that when subsidies go ,everything will fall in place...to me ,you just wrote jargons. Paper jargons as usual

Very correct

Are we developed?

backbencher:


1.Developed countries don't subsidize petrol and power like we do. A liter of petrol costs far more in the US and UK than it does in Nigeria.(and both of them are oil producing nations)

2.Where subsides exist, they are for the poorest of the poor...and they are paid out of tax revenue. Here in Nigeria we pay for subsides from our oil revenues...which is why we have forex issues...and from loans. Not from taxes. (And developed countries have tax to gdp ratios of at least 30% . Nigeria is at 6.1%. )

Subsidy will not be removed until Dangote refinery comes on stream. It is just too risky for PMB and APC to pull off ahead of an election in less than 2 years' time.

dallyemmy:
That hypothesis does not work in Nigeria...

It did...I present to you the GSM sector.

Obasanjo

1.Did not tell GSM Companies to charge N5 for a N50 calll

2.Did not promise them that he would pay N20 to cover the loss made charging N5 for a call that cost N50.

As a result...GSM companies made huge profits...which also attracted more and more investment...and at the end of the day, we have things like home internet (in 2001, internet was very very limited) and an expansive telecoms sector...providing lots of jobs and taxable income.

Subsides in power mean that power companies have not been making enough to even pay local taxes self.

AllahIsShit:
Subsidy began 30+ years ago when Babangida and Abacha allowed the 4 NNPC refineries to fall into disrepair and didn't build any new ones to meet the demands of the growing domestic market.

They discovered that through the so called "subsidy" of refining petroleum abroad, they could award contracts to their cronies and enrich themselves.

The domestic market for petroleum continued to grow, so the racket in subsidy grew to the point where it became unmanageable. Now that they can no longer make money from the scheme, they want to pass the entirety of the financial burden of refining petroleum abroad onto the shoulders of Nigerians.

Even back in IBB'S time, and Abacha's time...we were told to remove subsidy. And Nigerians said NO.(and anyone back then who supported subsidy removal was called an IMF lackey. I remember those times)

Even during Obasanjo's time, we were told that severally. We said no.

GEJ tried...and guess what Nigerians said (Even back then, people like us who saw the light then had to keep our mouths shut)..NO.

So the fact the racket lasted as long as it did is because both the poor and the corrupt were benefiting..at Nigeria's expense.

backbencher:


What happens in the power sector is that government from time to time reduces the amount of money spent subsiding power which manifests as a price increase.

This it does because the cost of producing power rises at a higher rate than the level at which subsides can cover it.

(Power sector subsides are covered by loans and by government money )

There is an agreement with electric companies to increase rate twice every year. How do you want us to believe that these things are really subsidized as claimed? U just wake up one morning and sell the asset of govt in one kind of arrangement. Why not start by selling such in the capital market where anyone interested can have a stake? For as long as u dont make the sale transparent, u cannot convince me that the electricity is still subsidized. That money is just going I to the hands of few people

Poanan:


There u go again. So do u buy equity in a firm forcefully? Why cant u say u and I should be free to buy into the electricity companies? Do u think they dont have subsidized things abroad? IMF is only saying that cos they are tired of giving out loans. When they go to take those loans we dont know what is in the proposal.

You subsidize what gives you value i.e. if it will create lots of jobs or makes your exports more competitive than your competitors. Certainly shouldn't be subsidising consumption like we are doing with petrol

Yes. I subscribe to removal of fuel and electricity subsidy on the account the government pay unemployment benefit and increase the minimum wage.
How do you expect an unemployed and underemployed people to cope with paying 20k a month for power and N500 for a litre of fuel without benefits.
The government can't have it both ways.

WE'LL REMOVE EVERYTHING WHEN WE CAN PRODUCE ALL WE CONSUME LOCALLY LIKE THE DEVELOPED NATIONS. FOR NOW THEIR ECONOMIC HYPOTHESIS AND LOANS WILL DO MORE EVIL THAN GOOD.

IT'S LIKE PUTTING THE CART BEFORE THE �

thebosstrevor1:


You first claimed there is no subsidies in the United states, now you claiming they pay subsidies from higher taxation

Don't you get it?
They (DSS+ world bank globalists) have stupid and idiotic morons who act as disinformation agents on their behalf on social media.
Men and women who sell their souls to pure evil.

Poanan:


There is an agreement with electric companies to increase rate twice every year. How do you want us to believe that these things are really subsidized as claimed?

In 2018, it cost N53 to make one kwh of power . We were paying N22-30 for that same kwh of power...that's where the subsidy comes in...to cover the difference between N22 and N53.

Now it is N73 to make one kwh of power (prolly higher now due to rising gas prices) and between N50-70 (Varies by DISCO and by location) that we pay for that one kwh of power.

U just wake up one morning and sell the asset of govt in one kind of arrangement. Why not start by selling such in the capital market where anyone interested can have a stake? For as long as u dont make the sale transparent, u cannot convince me that the electricity is still subsidized. That money is just going I to the hands of few people

Well, the reason why it went to government cronies was that foreign investors did not want to come...because government controlling the price of power meant they would operate at a loss.

If you have time read this report

It is not realistic. Have you heard about Structual Adjustment Programme and its negative impact on Nigerian Economy? Do a little research on it.

Where are the professors in Economics from this country? They need to help our government to develop realistic economic policies

Barryseal:
Yes. I subscribe to removal of fuel and electricity subsidy on the account the government pay unemployment benefit and increase the minimum wage.
How do you expect an unemployed and underemployed people to cope with paying 20k a month for power and N500 for a litre of fuel without benefits.
The government can't have it both ways.

dallyemmy:
It is not realistic. Have you heard about Structual Adjustment Programme and its negative impact on Nigerian Economy? Do a little research.

We ended up in SAP because in 1982, oil prices collapsed and left us in a severe lurch

By 1986, we had two choices...either do SAP or take a loan. SAP we chose.

But even then, because oil prices were still low, and were to remain low till 1990/1 when they rose briefly before falling...our revenue was still low, hence things were hard. SAP was just a reality check.

And even then we were still subsiding fuel...UNDER SAP...and expanded it in 88...making matters worse.

Mind you we weren't the only one..the 1980's was a tough time for oyel producers. (Low oil prices is partly why Saddam attacked Kuwait in 1990...largely because oil prices were low, and Iraq was broke from the recently ended eight year war with Iran...and Kuwait oil wells looke attractive. )

backbencher:


Thanks for being courteous, particularly as most Nigerian polticans have never supported removing subsides since the onset of democracy when they were in power.

There is a reason why I support subsidy removal...and it has to do with the fact that the N1 trillon spent on subsidy this year could have enrolled 1million Nigerians on NHIS. Instead we threw that money away

Also subsides is why the pertoleum sector has not been able to earn enough profit and repair refinereis, and is the soruce of a lot of waste and corruption.

Again thanks for being courteous.

.....

People buy cables, poles, transformers simply because

1.Government price controls means that power companies cannot make enough cash to pay for all of that..so people have to buy it.

The power companies have been operating at a loss since 2012 (I'll post a link and a graphic showing why)..and the subsidy paid to cover that loss is enough to keep them from going under...but does nothing for their operating costs.

2.If power companies were allowed to charge market prices..ie subsides go..yes we would pay higher for power, but in return they would buy cables, trransformers, etc instead of us doing so..because NOW they can afford it.

I went to a private school in the 1980's. School fees there were five times higher than the government school..which was closer to my house (and my parents had to take side hustles to pay such fees...rich they weren't then). In return for high fees...we got desks, chairs, exercise books when we needed them, textbooks, pencils and biros.

Then I went to a government secondary school..where fees were cheap. Thus I had to buy books, textbooks , writing materials, etc...while I had to make my own chair and desk.

Modified

1.LINK as promised

Let me ask you...during COVID 19, the minister for humanitarian disaster "that is what I call her" said she went to all the 36 states of the federation and the money from federal government got to everybody.. Did you receive such money? That is the way money save from subsidies will disappear while government goes to the world and say every Nigeria is benefiting from the subsidy removal

One of the problems of this country is IMF.

Fourwinds:


Let me ask you...during COVID 19, the minister for humanitarian disaster "that is what I call her" said she went to all the 36 states of the federation and the money from federal government got to everybody.. Did you receive such money? That is the way money save from subsidies will disappear while government goes to the world and say every Nigeria is benefiting from the subsidy removal

That's why I always say here...that democracy is hard work.

The big countries we want to run to...all work because people do the hard work of holding their governments to account.

So, if we all held our government to account, no money would disappear.

But we all want to vote, and go home.

backbencher:


In 2018, it cost N53 to make one kwh of power . We were paying N22-30 for that same kwh of power...that's where the subsidy comes in...to cover the difference between N22 and N53.

Now it is N73 to make one kwh of power (prolly higher now due to rising gas prices) and between N50-70 (Varies by DISCO and by location) that we pay for that one kwh of power.




Well, the reason why it went to government cronies was that foreign investors did not want to come...because government controlling the price of power meant they would operate at a loss.

If you have time read this report

They wont come in cos it is not in the capital market. Once a sale is made throught the capital market it will never remain the same. If govt wants to sell anything and u want foreign investors put it in the capital market.

backbencher:


We ended up in SAP because in 1982, oil prices collapsed and left us in a severe lurch

By 1986, we had two choices...either do SAP or take a loan. SAP we chose.

But even then, because oil prices were still low, and were to remain low till 1990/1 when they rose briefly before falling...our revenue was still low, hence things were hard. SAP was just a reality check.

And even then we were still subsiding fuel...UNDER SAP...and expanded it in 88...making matters worse.

Mind you we weren't the only one..the 1980's was a tough time for oyel producers. (Low oil prices is partly why Saddam attacked Kuwait in 1990...largely because oil prices were low, and Iraq was broke from the recently ended eight year war with Iran...and Kuwait oil wells looke attractive. )

During Gulf war, Nigeria made a hell of money, where is the money? IBB looted that money.. Look young man there is no reason or excuse you will give me that will palatable.. Money are always looted not deploy to benefit Nigerians

Poanan:


They wont come in cos it is not in the capital market. Once a sale is made throught the capital market it will never remain the same. If govt wants to sell anything and u want foreign investors put it in the capital market.

And remove price controls...because one cannot do business and be having government control his or her prices.

Plus GSM did not go through capital market then...

Fourwinds:


During Gulf war, Nigeria made a hell of money, where is the money? IBB looted that money.. Look young man there is no reason or excuse you will give me that will palatable.. Money are always looted not deploy to benefit Nigerians

Yeah he looted the money because ...army rule is autocratic rule

Which is why people fought and died for democracy so that we can hold our government to account more and more easily.

And I am not excusing corruption, as it is not the subject of this thread....plus if subsidies are removed, corruption in the subsidy process would go.

backbencher:


That's why I always say here...that democracy is hard work.

The big countries we want to run to...all work because people do the hard work of holding their governments to account.

So, if we all held our government to account, no money would disappear.

But we all want to vote, and go home.

We have been urging people to do the needful... Endsars was one way of holding government accountable.. Did you see the way they handle it...people go out for peaceful protest, what government now do is to bring in hoodlums and thugs to make it look violent.. Even here on Nairaland, you see the pathetic palliative zombies supporting clear fail government....
I don't know how some foolish Nigerians reason...all because of #30000 per month...they sold their generations to useless politicians