^^^^Sorry, I will not accept that from you that Smacking and flogging are the same. I like the way you put it flogging smacking! Hehehe.

Peace, my dearest sis!

..

chaircover:


please calm down and read my post on page 1. Where did I ever say that I wasnt smacked and where did I say that smacking a child is bad upbringing?

Take a chill pill abeg. Your kids are yours so you can beat/flog/smack your children anyway you like.

Each to their own.

its not as if am worked up by this,really.
Like you rightly said,Each to their own.
ciao.

chaircover:

^^^^ flogging and smacking are not the same thing regardless of which country you live in.

all4naija:

^^^^Sorry, I will not accept that from you that Smacking and flogging is the same. I like the way you put it flogging smacking! Hehehe.

Peace, my dearest sis!

ok flogging is harsher,and smacking is milder,yea? I've just remembered the sharia way of flogging,Lmao.
and it is totally different from the flogging people receive from parents,i see why you two are all bent down to correcting it.
i see.

mcro:

I grew up in an environment where corporal punishment was highly encouraged. One common denomination i can see today is dt one of us children of dt particular environment are v responsible citizens 2day. Thanks 2my father of blessed memory, i wud have bn worse off had i bn left 2my own devices. Truth is dt some children need more than mere verbal chastisement 2be corrected. That d child gets immuned 2d punishment is not totally true; he stl dreads d prospect of d sure cane. I am talking 4m experience. Most of my friends 2day seem 2have same story of childhood, they were stubborn & were not indulged and today they are better 4it. As a matter of fact, d real rebels among us when we were young grow up 2love d parent dt stood up against our delinquencies. All we need 2learn is how 2 draw d line btw punishment as a corrective measure or as an abuse. My father knew just dt.

I would like to know how a lot of those same friends resolve conflicts that arise at work and also in the home today.
How many wives are battered and have to suffer in silence because domestic violence is sometime we often sweep under the table?
How many children have their creativity stifled at a tender age because corporal punishment is seen as an effective means of communication?

The truth is, if we look to Nigeria, we won't find reliable working statistics since none is kept.
We all know it exists though: we see it in the actions of the trigger-happy MOPOL we encounter as we go about our daily business; we see it in the roforofo fights we choose to ignore on a daily basis.

Of course children are different; and this is why parents have to get creative with the discipline methods they employ.
It is not simply enough in 2011 to say: "guess what, I turned out right, buddy".

The discussion has much wider ramifications in my eyes; it goes to the very heart of how issues bothering on childhood and the welfare of children are understood in Nigeria.

Is it not true that the past informs much of what obtains in the present?
How can the act depicted in the picture provided below instill feelings of remorse as opposed to total humiliation?

I grew up in an environment where corporal punishment was highly encouraged. One common denomination i can see today is dt one of us children of dt particular environment are v responsible citizens 2day. Thanks 2my father of blessed memory, i wud have bn worse off had i bn left 2my own devices. Truth is dt some children need more than mere verbal chastisement 2be corrected. That d child gets immuned 2d punishment is not totally true; he stl dreads d prospect of d sure cane. I am talking 4m experience. Most of my friends 2day seem 2have same story of childhood, they were stubborn & were not indulged and today they are better 4it. As a matter of fact, d real rebels among us when we were young grow up 2love d parent dt stood up against our delinquencies. All we need 2learn is how 2 draw d line btw punishment as a corrective measure or as an abuse. My father knew just dt.

eGuerrilla:


Oh, I perfectly understand where you are coming from?
The bible is the sole authority on what it takes to discipline a child, and here is where you stand.

You may not know this but there was once a time when Christians is the so-called developed world framed policies concerning the welfare of children based on the same premise.
You'd have to go back a long way though, as such notions have long been done away with in the face of growing awareness about the institution of childhood and all it entails.

No where have you offered proof that corporal punishment, which was instituted in schools by our colonial masters, actually helps develop upright citizens, and, in turn, the task of nation building.
And just to be clear, I will make it obvious, once more, that your literal interpretation of the bible puts your thinking on the same plane as that of a shariarist in one of our northern states. Same difference really!

go back and read my comment about the sharian way of discipline,stop misinterpreting what i said,and please do yourself
a favour to read properly and stop being controversial.

Abeg flogging is essential part of training,shebi dem flog all of us and if we are honest we will agree that it helped us turn out well. However, I don't believe in flogging in academics, if a child is not understanding then teacher is not creative enough. Secondly, parents are facing more economic challenges these days, these frustrations should not be vented on innocent children.Flogging should be reserved for moral issues only.

Jimmy Boy:

Abeg flogging is essential part of training,shebi dem flog all of us and if we are honest we will agree that it helped us turn out well. However, I don't believe in flogging in academics, if a child is not understanding then teacher is not creative enough. Secondly, parents are facing more economic challenges these days, these frustrations should not be vented on innocent children.Flogging should be reserved for moral issues only.

We could not have turned out well without the benefit of corporal punishment, eh?

Do you see how following this trail of thought through to its logical conclusion compels a rational thinker to ask what was/is so different about us?
Are you saying errant children in Nigeria can only be persuaded about the errors of their ways by being flogged?
If you believe this, would you also feel comfortable with the idea that we are somewhat closer to the animal kingdom and hence could not have turned out well otherwise?
Listen to yourself again.

Jimmy Boy:

Abeg flogging is essential part of training,shebi dem flog all of us and if we are honest we will agree that it helped us turn out well. However, I don't believe in flogging in academics, if a child is not understanding then teacher is not creative enough. Secondly, parents are facing more economic challenges these days, these frustrations should not be vented on innocent children.Flogging should be reserved for moral issues only.

Obviously, you didnt do well academically.


School must have been hard for you. What do you do now?

Alaru in oyingbo?

Goldieluks:



go back and read my comment about the sharian way of discipline,stop misinterpreting what i said,and please do yourself
a favour to read properly and stop being controversial.

The problem with comprehension, here, is not mine.
I have been as clear as possible on where I stand with respect to flogging children, while at once making it clear your rigid position (which derives from the book of proverbs) puts you in the same league as an adherent of sharia.
Simple.

@eGuearilla, you are absolutely free to adopt any system you believe will work for your family. I just reflected on several pranks I played when I growing up and wondered what what I would have become if I was just slapped on the wrist. You tell ur kids to take can of juice each when going to school and you found out that one of them took extra or u come home and see ur 10yrs old watching adult movie? Or they kick ball in the living room and break an expensive glassware.If your answer to these scenario is to tell them not to do it again or you won't buy them ice-cream then goodluck to you.

^^^^ Good talk bro. For those who refuse smacking their children when the child refuse to conform to norms have themselves to blame these days . We could see them behaving confused . Some oof them develop the attitude of can do whatever I loike and here they are today so disrespectful and indecent.
I gave a couple of them a lift from Lokoja to Abuja the other time, and were lacking courtesy and decorum in my bus that, I ahd to let off my car at abaji and guess what? they were from the so called educated enlightened family.
The truth is, when you refuse to correct, instil discipline by all means available ( canning , spanking and beating but not abuse) your kids, you get the kind of confussed uncivilised, uncultured, disrespectful , dispeakable societal misfit, impatient, adults that could speak english language, make money that will embarrass their family and the society.

Jimmy Boy:

@eGuearilla, you are absolutely free to adopt any system you believe will work for your family. I just reflected on several pranks I played when I growing up and wondered what what I would have become if I was just slapped on the wrist. You tell your kids to take can of juice each when going to school and you found out that one of them took extra or u come home and see your 10yrs old watching adult movie? Or they kick ball in the living room and break an expensive glassware.If your answer to these scenario is to tell them not to do it again or you won't buy them ice-cream then goodluck to you.

Thanks for this response.
Just so you know, I have worked with thousands of kids in a professional capacity, so feel adequately qualified to opine on this issue.
If I allow 6 year son to play football in my living room, with this activity culminating in breakage of expensive glassware; guess who is to blame?

If I arrive home from work and find my 10 year watching an adult movie, I would be concerned enough see this for the bigger issue it is.
I'll tell you a story: I once had a 12 year old boy who was sexually aware way beyond his chronological age referred to me at work.
The concern those who taught him had was that he was not only a bad influence but hell bent on spreading smut amongst his peers.
To cut a long story short, I situated this incidence in an appropriate context and summoned his parents for a consultation session, before taking any further action.
What I discovered while interviewing li'l Jay's father was that, not only was his own (the father's) childhood wholly dysfunctional, he had recently taking to watching adult movies in the company of his girlfriend, once they were sure Jay was asleep on the sofa.
Question for you: where does the blame lie under such circumstances?

Having cleared up the foregoing, please understand that I do sympathise with parents who are left with no option but to smack their toddlers occasionally, to demonstrate displeasure. Most parents would have done so at some point, since it is virtually impossible to reason with a 2 year old bent on sticking a sharp object in the mouth.
Where I draw the line is flogging children to instil discipline simply because it convenient to do so, or because our interpretation of the Bible or Koran 'lends' credence to this approach.

@eGuerilla, I happened to have read some text on early years of the american society and I found that is was very close to the african system I.e communal living, strong moral values with smacking an integral part of the family disciplinary system. Now we have internet,I-phones and the rest but we surely don't have a better society.We have more junkies and gay right activist etc Many times we here of a teenagers who goes to school with a rifle and kills several pupils. Recent survey shows that Asian kids are outdoing white kidz in everything, something is terribly wrong and you guys should try to find out

i think it might be possible to discipline a child without beating but it would be really difficult. Pain is there for a reason. Physical pain is a survival mechanism because it is a very good teacher. Nerves that carry pain signals are strongly connected to the memory part of our brains. So, flog that wayward child but not before trying other methods. If you can't bring yourself to beat your child, frog jumps would do just fine .

Jimmy Boy:

@eGuerilla, I happened to have read some text on early years of the american society and I found that is was very close to the african system I.e communal living, strong moral values with smacking an integral part of the family disciplinary system. Now we have internet,I-phones and the rest but we surely don't have a better society.We have more junkies and man-lover right activist etc Many times we here of a teenagers who goes to school with a rifle and kills several pupils. Recent survey shows that Asian kids are outdoing white kidz in everything, something is terribly wrong and you guys should try to find out

Thanks for your response once again, Jimmy Boy.
I take it the literature you read did not touch on the genocide perpetrated against the Indians who were the original occupants of the US; the horrors of the slave trade - which spanned more than 200 years (think about generations - child, parents, grand-parents, great grandparents born and raised on plantations); Jim Crowism, which followed; segregation (think apartheid, here) and so on.
What communal system did you read about; when most of the founding fathers were sired by progenitors who were themselves were criminals?

Your post up there brings a lot of disparate issues into sharp focus; issues which take the discussion on corporal punishment off on a tangent.

My original poser remains (just in case there is anyone willing to rise to the challenge): how has corporal punishment improved our lot in Nigeria?
You think the criminals in your neigbourhood turned out that way because they didn't get caned often enough?
Would a horsewhip have been a more appropriate tool for rehabilitation before the sapling grew into an iroko tree?

Enlighten me, brother.

@eGuerilla My last post was not to absolve anyone of genocide on apache indians or something that is not even topic being discussed, I was just trying to show that a society without strong moral values which starts from the family. I am not saying spanking is the only way to make kids conform to our norms, because there is no silver bullet when it comes to behavoral issues, it is always a cocktail of factors which must be addresed together. But I still insist that caning is effective , I heard of several families who had to bring their kids back from abroad to come and continue their education because these kidz became uncontrollable. About why we have area boys and the rest around, I am sure you know the reasons yourself, people with many wives and children that they can not look after,some of them were born by mothers of 13 or 14 years old without a father that is willing to take responsibility.

Since you said you are a professionalin child correction or something that I assume you ply your trade abroad. You ply your trade abroad because there is little or no market for your trade in Nigeria . There is no market simply because here we flog our own kids and still love them, so we don't need to consult professors to make them behave.All the same, I am willing to learn any technique that can make me flog them less and still make them conform to the moral codes in my home.

..

@Chaircover-Thanks for your response, we practise everything you have mentioned they are all native intelligence that was passed down from generation to generation including the caning that happened to be the contentious issue in this thread. I was actually waiting for some techy stuff from some university laboratory that a local dad like me might be ignorant of. I do not suggest that kids should be beaten like horse most of work so hard just to give the best to them. I want to rest my case on the matter.

eGuerrilla:

The problem with comprehension, here, is not mine.
I have been as clear as possible on where I stand with respect to flogging children, while at once making it clear your rigid position (which derives from the book of proverbs) puts you in the same league as an adherent of sharia.
Simple.

I don't get you at all,how can you compare the Holy book of Proverb to the harsh law of sharia?
even if your not a Christian, that shouldn't give you the intrepidity to disrespect the Holy book.
Each to their own.
peace.

its a good cop bad cop stunt

one parent play the good guy the other parent the bad guy

if both parents are good cop or both parent are bad cop, nah wahala be that for the children

Talk to them. simply talking to children about what they did wrong works wonders.

I'm not calling it a panacea.

Flogging only preaches violence, which seldom works.

Nice topic. Children of these days are smarter and can read their parent very fast. It is appropriate to correct a child instantly when he/she is caught doing something wrong.
Sometimes, my wife screams to calm the children but they don’t listen, but when I come in with a loud voice, they calm down. Also, the cain on their palm, kneeling down works; it shows the gravity of what they have done. Never use your hand to discipline them. These kids learn from the school, church, mosque, playground, nannies, uncles, cousins and the list goes on. When you see funny character 
Wait until you have them, then you will understand…

Jimmy Boy:

@eGuerilla My last post was not to absolve anyone of genocide on apache indians or something that is not even topic being discussed, I was just trying to show that a society without strong moral values which starts from the family. I am not saying spanking is the only way to make kids conform to our norms, because there is no silver bullet when it comes to behavoral issues, it is always a cocktail of factors which must be addresed together. But I still insist that caning is effective , I heard of several families who had to bring their kids back from abroad to come and continue their education because these kidz became uncontrollable. About why we have area boys and the rest around, I am sure you know the reasons yourself, people with many wives and children that they can not look after,some of them were born by mothers of 13 or 14 years old without a father that is willing to take responsibility.

Since you said you are a professionalin child correction or something that I assume you ply your trade abroad. You ply your trade abroad because there is little or no market for your trade in Nigeria . There is no market simply because here we flog our own kids and still love them, so we don't need to consult professors to make them behave.All the same, I am willing to learn any technique that can make me flog them less and still make them conform to the moral codes in my home.

@Chaircover did an excellent job itemizing most of the points I would have raised, so I won't cover the same old ground.

I am glad you are indeed open to alternative options and commend you for this quality - something often lacking in most Nigeria parents I deal with.
It is interesting you associate some of the indiscipline and criminal behaviour that currently plagues our society on factors bordering on polygamy, teenage motherhood and, not doubt, absent fathers.
I also recognise these causal factors but would make bold to say that in 2-parent households, where neither parent spends quality time with the kids, you could easily arrive at the very same outcome; the loony who took so many young lives in Norway recently comes to mind here.

You see, when we refuse to examine reasons why others abandoned certain practices we invariably make unavoidable mistakes.
I stand against corporal punishment mainly because, I feel, it has done so little to advance the cause of progress in homes or schools in Nigeria.

Why is it so easy to flog children when our corrupt politicians go unpunished?
Over the years, I have seen parents flog squabbling siblings with reckless abandon, and without caring to get to the root cause of the dispute, simply because the short-hand way of disciplining their children achieves quietude for a short time.
Ever heard that peace is not the absence of war but the presence of justice?
What sense of justice or fair play is induced by flogging an entire class of students simply because a lazy-boned teacher is too incompetent to determine what the trigger factor for a transgression was?

Listen, I am not for a moment suggesting the methods outlined by @chaircover are easy.
Being a parent is full time job and it is time we began to see children as more than mere extensions of ourselves.
We are all long done with the agrarian revolution (which never really happened in Nigeria anyway), which would have required extra farm hands?
The subsisting model of childhood in Nigeria, based largely on a paternalistic model framed by adults need to be done away with, if we are to engender upright citizens who think for themselves and understand what civic responsibility is.

This argument that "I turned out right, Jack, so I'm ok" fails to acknowledge that because you (and most of us) had no other option, we simply towed the line handed down.
I bet every corrupt Nigerian official in Government today was caned at some point in his/her life, most likely by a corrupt parent whose mantra back then was: do as I say but not as I do

In closing, I concede it will be a lot easier to do away with corporal punishment altogether if our society was a lot fairer and equitable.
That is to say, if 5 , 6, 7, 8 year old Ngozi, Adeolu, Hassan and Ekaete regularly came into contact with veritable examples of other law abiding citizens that society celebrates as opposed to 419-police officers, 419-teachers, 419-politicians, 419-church ministers and so on.

The insanity of nowadays is really appalling . I was telling my friend the other day that eventually morals will collapse everywhere Simply because we have lost the will to do the right thing. the level of immorality and all manner of crimes has increased over the years because of continuosly decreasing quality parenting. The truth is always bitter. the Ancient of days put it succintly" spare the rod and spoil the child". Nobody knows better than him. It is just like Homosexuality. The scripture roundly condems it but our wise men from the east says it is genetical. they  conveniently invented experiments to make us believe that even animals are homosexual.

I know sum kids whu were not flogged & nw pple warn dier kids nut 2 associate wit dem cos of bad habitz
'm talkin of cousins,relatives,etc hwmuchmore Outsiders

I know sum kids whu were not flogged & nw pple warn dier kids nut 2 associate wit dem cos of bad habitz
'm talkin of cousins,relatives,etc hwmuchmore Outsiders
2 evribodi dier own

I actually smacked a friend's son one day right in the presence of his mum. I was visiting them and that was the day osama died and the news was on the TV. This boy was playing, running around, screaming and shouting(all na play) anyways the mum told him to be quiet because we were watching the news, this boy looked at his mum and gave her the eye and continued doing his thing, after like 2mins of not keeping quiet, I called him by his name and told him to talk and play quietly because we were trying to listen to the news. This silly boy looked at me and told me to ''shuush'' with hands on lips and in that instant I got up and gave him a good smack on his back without even thinking. I could not even believe the little boy, he started crying immediately and went to his mum . I was thinking his mum would start petting him cos she also is someone that does not believe in smacking kids but she she told him off verbally and pushed him slightly away from her. I apologised to her for smacking her child but I also told her that I will not hesitate to smack him again if he acts in a disrespectful manner. She actually told me even before the day I smacked him that she was going to bring him over to my place for a week to tame him, i told her to face her wahala abeg and not bring it into my own home. Since then whenever I go there to visit, the boy just sits at one corner and does his thing ( whether na fear ooo or respect, e no consign me,just don't disrespect me). I was actually leaving for home one day when he called me by my name and told me he loves me lol. Shocked? I really was.

jennykadry:

I actually smacked a friend's son one day right in the presence of his mum. I was visiting them and that was the day osama died and the news was on the TV. This boy was playing, running around, screaming and shouting(all na play) anyways the mum told him to be quiet because we were watching the news, this boy looked at his mum and gave her the eye and continued doing his thing, after like 2mins of not keeping quiet, I called him by his name and told him to talk and play quietly because we were trying to listen to the news. This silly boy looked at me and told me to ''shuush'' with hands on lips and in that instant I got up and gave him a good smack on his back without even thinking. I could not even believe the little boy, he started crying immediately and went to his mum . I was thinking his mum would start petting him cos she also is someone that does not believe in smacking kids but she she told him off verbally and pushed him slightly away from her. I apologised to her for smacking her child but I also told her that I will not hesitate to smack him again if he acts in a disrespectful manner. She actually told me even before the day I smacked him that she was going to bring him over to my place for a week to tame him, i told her to face her wahala abeg and not bring it into my own home. Since then whenever I go there to visit, the boy just sits at one corner and does his thing ( whether na fear ooo or respect, e no consign me,just don't disrespect me). I was actually leaving for home one day[b] when he called me by my name and told me he loves me lol. Shocked?[/b] I really was.

So what happened after that?

Are you guys seeing each other?