Summary Answer:
Muslim scholars teach that Muslims should generally be truthful to each other, unless the purpose of lying is to "smooth over differences."

There are two forms of lying to non-believers that are permitted under certain circumstances, taqiyya and kitman. These circumstances are typically those that advance the cause Islam - in some cases by gaining the trust of non-believers in order to draw out their vulnerability and defeat them.


The Qur'an:
Qur'an (16:106) - Establishes that there are circumstances that can "compel" a Muslim to tell a lie.

Qur'an (3:28) - This verse tells Muslims not to take those outside the faith as friends, unless it is to "guard themselves."

Qur'an (9:3) - ", Allah and His Messenger are free from liability to the idolaters, " The dissolution of oaths with the pagans who remained at Mecca following its capture. They did nothing wrong, but were evicted anyway.

Qur'an (40:28) - A man is introduced as a believer, but one who must "hide his faith" among those who are not believers.

Qur'an (2:225) - "Allah will not call you to account for thoughtlessness in your oaths, but for the intention in your hearts" The context of this remark is marriage, which explains why Sharia allows spouses to lie to each other for the greater good.

Qur'an (66:2) - "Allah has already ordained for you, (O men), the dissolution of your oaths"

Qur'an (3:54) - "And they (the disbelievers) schemed, and Allah schemed (against them): and Allah is the best of schemers." The Arabic word used here for scheme (or plot) is makara, which literally means deceit. If Allah is deceitful toward unbelievers, then there is little basis for denying that Muslims are allowed to do the same. (See also 8:30 and 10:21)

Taken collectively these verses are interpreted to mean that there are circumstances when a Muslim may be "compelled" to deceive others for a greater purpose.

From the Hadith:

Bukhari (52:269) - "The Prophet said, 'War is deceit.'" The context of this is thought to be the murder of Usayr ibn Zarim and his thirty unarmed men by Muhammad's men after he "guaranteed" them safe passage (see Additional Notes below).

Bukhari (49:857) - "He who makes peace between the people by inventing good information or saying good things, is not a liar." Lying is permitted when the end justifies the means.

Bukhari (84:64-65) - Speaking from a position of power at the time, Ali confirms that lying is permissible in order to deceive an "enemy."

Muslim (32:6303) - ", he did not hear that exemption was granted in anything what the people speak as lie but in three cases: in battle, for bringing reconciliation amongst persons and the narration of the words of the husband to his wife, and the narration of the words of a wife to her husband (in a twisted form in order to bring reconciliation between them)."

Bukhari (50:369) - Recounts the murder of a poet, Ka'b bin al-Ashraf, at Muhammad's insistence. The men who volunteered for the assassination used dishonesty to gain Ka'b's trust, pretending that they had turned against Muhammad. This drew the victim out of his fortress, whereupon he was brutally slaughtered despite putting up a ferocious struggle for his life.

From Islamic Law:

Reliance of the Traveler (p. 746 - 8.2) - "Speaking is a means to achieve objectives. If a praiseworthy aim is attainable through both telling the truth and lying, it is unlawful to accomplish through lying because there is no need for it. When it is possible to achieve such an aim by lying but not by telling the truth, it is permissible to lie if attaining the goal is permissible (N:i.e. when the purpose of lying is to circumvent someone who is preventing one from doing something permissible), and obligatory to lie if the goal is obligatory, it is religiously precautionary in all cases to employ words that give a misleading impression,

"One should compare the bad consequences entailed by lying to those entailed by telling the truth, and if the consequences of telling the truth are more damaging, one is entitled to lie.



Additional Notes:

Muslims are allowed to lie to unbelievers in order to defeat them. The two forms are:

Taqiyya - Saying something that isn't true.

Kitman - Lying by omission. An example would be when Muslim apologists quote only a fragment of verse 5:32 (that if anyone kills "it shall be as if he had killed all mankind" while neglecting to mention that the rest of the verse (and the next) mandate murder in undefined cases of "corruption" and "mischief."

Though not called Taqiyya by name, Muhammad clearly used deception when he signed a 10-year treaty with the Meccans that allowed him access to their city while he secretly prepared his own forces for a takeover. The unsuspecting residents were conquered in easy fashion after he broke the treaty two years later, and some of the people in the city who had trusted him at his word were executed.

Another example of lying is when Muhammad used deception to trick his personal enemies into letting down their guard and exposing themselves to slaughter by pretending to seek peace. This happened in the case of Ka'b bin al-Ashraf (as previously noted) and again later against Usayr ibn Zarim, a surviving leader of the Banu Nadir tribe, which had been evicted from their home in Medina by the Muslims.

At the time, Usayr ibn Zarim was attempting to gather an armed force against the Muslims from among a tribe allied with the Quraish (against which Muhammad had already declared war). Muhammad's "emissaries" went to ibn Zarim and persuaded him to leave his safe haven on the pretext of meeting with the prophet of Islam in Medina to discuss peace. Once vulnerable, the leader and his thirty companions were massacred by the Muslims with ease, belying the probability that they were mostly unarmed, having been given a guarantee of safe passage (Ibn Ishaq 981).

Such was the reputation of Muslims for lying and then killing that even those who "accepted Islam" did not feel entirely safe. The fate of the Jadhima is tragic evidence for this. When Muslim "missionaries" approached their tribe one of the members insisted that they would be slaughtered even though they had already "converted" to Islam to avoid just such a demise. However, the others were convinced that they could trust the Muslim leader's promise that they would not be harmed if they simply offered no resistance. (After convincing the skeptic to lay down his arms, the unarmed men of the tribe were quickly tied up and beheaded - Ibn Ishaq 834 & 837).

Today's Muslims often try to justify Muhammad's murder of poets and others who criticized him at Medina by saying that they broke a treaty by their actions. Yet, these same apologists place little value on treaties broken by Muslims. From Muhammad to Saddam Hussein, promises made to non-Muslim are distinctly non-binding in the Muslim mindset.

Leaders in the Arab world routinely say one thing to English-speaking audiences and then something entirely different to their own people in Arabic. Yassir Arafat was famous for telling Western newspapers about his desire for peace with Israel, then turning right around and whipping Palestinians into a hateful and violent frenzy against Jews.

The 9/11 hijackers practiced deception by going into bars and drinking alcohol, thus throwing off potential suspicion that they were fundamentalists plotting jihad. This effort worked so well, in fact, that even weeks after 9/11, John Walsh, the host of a popular American television show, said that their bar trips were evidence of 'hypocrisy.'

The transmission from Flight 93 records the hijackers telling their doomed passengers that there is "a bomb on board" but that everyone will "be safe" as long as "their demands are met." Obviously none of these things were true, but these men, who were so intensely devoted to Islam that they were willing to "slay and be slain for the cause of Allah" (as the Qur'an puts it) saw nothing wrong with employing Taqiyya in order to facilitate their mission of mass murder.

The near absence of Qur'anic verse and reliable Hadith that encourage truthfulness is somewhat surprising, given that many Muslims are convinced that their religion teaches honesty. In fact, it is because of this ingrained belief that many Muslims are quite honest. When lying is addressed in the Qur'an, it is nearly always in reference to the "lies against Allah" - referring to the Jews and Christians who rejected Muhammad's claim to being a prophet.

Finally, the circumstances by which Muhammad allowed a believer to lie to a non-spouse are limited to those that either advance the cause of Islam or enable a Muslim to avoid harm to his well-being (and presumably that of other Muslims as well). Although this should be kept very much in mind when dealing with matters of global security, such as Iran's nuclear intentions, it is not grounds for assuming that the Muslim one might personally encounter on the street or in the workplace is any less honest than anyone else.

Nairalanders, now you know why Muslims on this forum are now denying their hadiths which confirm the relationship between Muhammad and 6 year old Aisha, and also of Muhammad snatching his adopted son's wife.

To be honest if I READ the Bible and heard such things about Jesus Christ, i will abandon the faith.

But thanks be to GOD, our GOD who hates Lies and Liars and even refers to SATAN as the father of lies.

"44 You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father’s desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies." - John 8:44

It is impossible to understand Islam and Muslims by listening to their protestations against terror and their proclamations of patriotism for America. Usually, it is wise and fair to give people the benefit of the doubt but when it comes to national safety and the future of America, we had better look twice, even thrice at Muslim patriotism. Why? Because Islam permits lying! It is called “Al-taqiyya.” One Muslim said that Al-taqiyya means dissimulation then he expanded it to diplomacy but he should have gone further to deception. Now some Muslims who do not follow the Koran are as faithful Americans as any of us, but the problem is, we cannot know.

It seems our President and his advisors are clueless as to the desires, doctrines, and distinctives of Islam. While I feel a little audacious in giving advice to national leaders, it is necessary since no one else is doing it. Muslims lie not because they are liars by nature but by choice. Systematic lying as a religious policy is deadly, and if our politicians do not understand this, thousands could die.

Muslims lie not because they are liars by nature but by choice. Systematic lying as a religious policy is deadly, and if our politicians do not understand this, thousands could die.

Muslims lie when it is in their interest to do so and “Allah” will not hold them accountable for lying when it is beneficial to the cause of Islam. They can lie without any guilt or fear of accountability or retribution. A lie in the defense of Islam is approved even applauded in their “holy” books.

Muslims are permitted to lie: (1) to save their lives, (2) to reconcile a husband and wife, (3) to persuade a woman into a bedroom and (4) to facilitate one on his journey. Muslims are even permitted to disavow Islam and Mohammed if it is not a genuine heart-felt rejection. Muslims will tell you that concealment of a truth is not an abandonment of that truth if it benefits Islam.

Mohammed gave permission for a follower to lie in order to kill a Jewish poet who had offended Mohammed. I could provide many examples of permissible lying from the Koran and Hadith and will do so when my critics accuse me of hatred and bigotry because of this column. My motives are not important but the truth is. However, many unprincipled people do not consider truth important. It is political correctness that sits on the throne to be worshiped.

Muslims may appear very sincere; in fact, they are sincere, when they lie for their own protection or in the cause of Islam. They have permission to lie. Yes, Christians have also lied but never are they given permission to lie. However, a Muslim has no guilt since the Koran and Hadith permit his deception.

They will lie to make Islam more attractive to potential converts as they speak of “no compulsion in religion” while all of them know that verse was abrogated by later verses. They will quote verses that speak of tolerance and kindness knowing that those verses were written when Mohammed was desirous of “tolerance and kindness,” but when he climbed into the catbird seat, everything changed and he became a terrorist.


Muslims have no hope for eternal salvation without their good works, so they must keep working to advance Islam. If a few lies will accomplish that goal, then lying is not bad but good. If they can get good publicity for Islam by lying, then lying is acceptable, even desirable. The Muslim is earning his way to heaven by lying to a non-Muslim.

Unlike Christians who are saved once for all by the grace of God through faith in Christ’s propitiatory death, no Muslim knows for sure if his works are good enough for Heaven. The only Muslim who knows for sure that his eternal destiny is secure and he will drop into a delightful garden filled with 72 virgins on soft green cushions is the one who dies while “taking out” unbelievers in Islam.

Most Muslims will not have the “opportunity” to become a martyr in this war between Islam and the rest of the world and make no mistake every true Muslim must be involved in making America (or the nation where he lives) a Muslim nation. Since Muslims are limited in their ability to die for the cause, they can help the cause by supporting terrorists with money, succor, and cover. Sure, they are aiding terror against the U.S. but since they believe they are doing Allah’s will, then any deception is acceptable.

How should this affect America’s war on terror? Officials must look closely at every Muslim chaplain in the military and in our prisons; also look at those involved in the CIA, FBI, and other sensitive areas; look at all Arabic translators, military or civilian; look at all Muslim employees at the Pentagon, White House, atomic power plants, and in Congress; look at all civilian Muslim pilots; look at Muslim clerics in all U.S. mosques. In other words, get serious about this war before our cities are rubble.

Our President must stop playing the game of “Let’s Stop the Terrorists” and get serious by going to the heart of the matter. This war on terror is a religious matter and could become a Hundred Years’ War. To resurrect an old slogan: You can trust the Muslims to be Muslims. They are lying their way to world domination!

Didn't Jesus of the Bible lie when the Roman asked him about him being the king of the Jews?

his answer if you remember was not yes.


but all christians take him as king of Kings, which must definitely include being king of the Jews. are you following me so far?

or is the liar not Jesus, but the liars are those who say he is King anyway; the apostle[s] if not the disciples all the way to you, frosbel?

we can all see how ignorant you are, including your lying spirit as i will explain below;

if two countries are going to war, it is normal for the two sides to psyche their warriors up, telling them how great they are and how weak the enemies are. the impression is to instill courage in the heart of the fighters. the leadership may begin a propaganda campaign by lying about the presence of yellow cakes as the US did, do a surgical strike as the US did in the shock and awe bombing of bagdad to get rid of saddam so there is no need for ground personnel.

all the efforts will be to scare the enemy enough that she is forced to surrender. if the lies work from the start, a single bullet may not be fired, or loss of lives is at the barest minimum.

America lied to get other countries to that war on her side, including the girlfriend britain which here calls a lap-dog. you see what lies accomplished for george bush and his cabal; getting rid of hussaine, access to iraqi oil, kbr's of dick cheney made tons of money.


america is the heart protestant christians if not the whole of christians; she even gets her wishes of the pope, the late pope was the hand pick of president carter, and i am almost certain is not more than what bush imposed.


if you are a husband and your unattractive wife puts on a moo moo dress which makes her even cantankerous to the eyes, if when she asked for a yes or no as your answer for her being a fashion plate, you will be sleeping with the enemy if you ever tell her the truth as being an ugly woman.


i know you are in experience; so ask men or women who are married about the wife who is told the brutal truth about her lack of beauty by the dunce of a husband.

frosbel:


To be honest if I READ the Bible and heard such things about Jesus Christ, i will abandon the faith.

Do you mean what you said? let's put your honor 7 integrity to test
now chew on this,

Does the Bible Approve of Lying?

Isn't it true the Bible condones lying and deception in several passages, indicating that God approves? Therefore, the Bible is a flawed book and Christianity is not worthy of respect, right?

For example, the Hebrew midwives lied to the Pharoah's men about male children born to the Israelite women (Exodus 1:19). Then, the very next verse indicates God approved: “So God was good to the midwives” (Exodus 1:20). God not only sanctioned the lie, He even blessed the midwives because of their deception.

But, the Bible also states the Lord is a God of truth (Psalm 31:5, 2 Samuel 7:28, Isaiah 65:16, Psalm 86:15). So, doesn't God's acceptance of lies and deception run counter to His nature?

@Frosbel; « #2 on: Today at 12:52:26 PM »
[Quote]Nairalanders, now you know why Muslims on this forum are now denying their hadiths which confirm the relationship between Muhammad and 6 year old Aisha, and also of Muhammad snatching his adopted son's wife.[/Quote]about Aisha [ra] i asked when did her mother gave birth to her for her father who divorced this wife in the first year of revelation, because she refused to enter Islam with the whole family, you refused to answer. we know she was not pregnant with Aisha when she was divorced. we also know that she did not get pregnant for a husband who did not want her for a wife, but made her an ex-wife. do people who dislike a spouse so much so that they get divorced go get pregnant for the same spouse as divorced? a person with good moral like Abu Bakr [as] will not go behind and eat the meat that he rejected when it could been permissible.

and in the matter of adoption, truly your adopted child has no moral standing on your inheritance, only your blood child does. what you have created with adoption is artificial family unit which God does not sanction or joined together.



[Quote]To be honest if I READ the Bible and heard such things about Jesus Christ, i will abandon the faith.

But thanks be to GOD, our GOD who hates Lies and Liars and even refers to SATAN as the father of lies.

"44 You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father’s desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies." - John 8:44[/Quote]is this verse speaking to Muslims or Muhammad [as] but Jews of Jesus time, from which came the 12 disciples? Read your Bible because the message of Jesus is for the Jews, not muslims, not arabs, not africans.you have picked the wrong group to put yourself because you are not from any of the 12 nations of the children of israel. are you a benjamite?

i now expect to carry out your threat upon yourself as in the first bold and quit christianity if you have any honesty in you by the below; Jesus said, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me" (John 14:6).

is Jesus not lying if he said the bold to cover everyone from Adam to the end of time? let us examine the condition of the children of Israel since the became a people; Jacob became Israel, hence his children are the children of Israel. Jesus message is to them alone and no one else. Moses Message is also to them alone and no one else.

in the time of Moses, however, they were 'slaves' of Pharaoh, so a strong man, Moses came as the way out to God. In essence Moses was the way to God and no one among the children of Israel can get to Yahweh except through Moses. my proofs; the many miracles that Moses showed to prove that he was the elect of God, His way. he finally by his staff drowned the military might of Egypt and Pharaoh their ruler. through Moses, God gave the 10 commandments which guided all those among them until death. if they followed this way of God through Moses, they have came to Yahweh. if they didn't they have not came to Yahweh.

the position of the 10 commandments was so powerful that Jesus had to obey it and in essence 'cursed' those who would abolish it as being the least in the kingdom of God.

Frosbel, you wanna be the least? if you want to follow Paul because he abolished it.

if you say Jesus abolished it, then that is a second proof of the reasons you must now leave christianity. Jesu can't say he came to live it out, and warned about abolishing it and then abolish it himself.

how about saying somebody is a fool after he had warned that such a saying will take one to hell fire?

how about being a bringer of peace, a lamb of God as you say it, as if God needs any lamb but Jesus said he brought no peace but swords and division among family members?

how about willing putting himself up to be killed, but crying out, begging, etc and then complained why God not his father abandoned him?


I want you to declare your leaving christianity right here on nairaland, if none of what i wrote is a lie. check your bible and i want to read your leaving christianity this week.

AIRDIG:

Do you mean what you said? let's put your honor 7 integrity to test
now chew on this,

Does the Bible Approve of Lying?

Isn't it true the Bible condones lying and deception in several passages, indicating that God approves? Therefore, the Bible is a flawed book and Christianity is not worthy of respect, right?

For example, the Hebrew midwives lied to the Pharoah's men about male children born to the Israelite women (Exodus 1:19). Then, the very next verse indicates God approved: “So God was good to the midwives” (Exodus 1:20). God not only sanctioned the lie, He even blessed the midwives because of their deception.

But, the Bible also states the Lord is a God of truth (Psalm 31:5, 2 Samuel 7:28, Isaiah 65:16, Psalm 86:15). So, doesn't God's acceptance of lies and deception run counter to His nature?

Yeeepa! OoooSe!

@Sweetnecta

about Aisha [ra] i asked when did her mother gave birth to her for her father who divorced this wife in the first year of revelation, because she refused to enter Islam with the whole family, you refused to answer. we know she was not pregnant with Aisha when she was divorced. we also know that she did not get pregnant for a husband who did not want her for a wife, but made her an ex-wife. do people who dislike a spouse so much so that they get divorced go get pregnant for the same spouse as divorced? a person with good moral like Abu Bakr [as] will not go behind and eat the meat that he rejected when it could been permissible.

Aisha  

Ask your Imam

Muhammad was a The craddle-robber Pirate

Muhammad had no morals either.

Tabari VII:7 "The Prophet married Aisha in Mecca three years before the Hijrah, after the death of Khadija. At the time she was six."

Ishaq:281 "When the Apostle came to Medina he was fifty-three."

Tabari VII:6 "In May, 623 A.D./A.H. 1, Allah’s Messenger consummated his marriage to Aisha." He would be dead in ten years; she hadn't lived that long. Pedophilia was, and continues to be, child abuse. The abused had come full circle; he was now an abuser.

Tabari IX:128 "When the Prophet married Aisha, she was very young and not yet ready for consummation." This is how it happened: Tabari IX:131 "My mother came to me while I was being swung on a swing between two branches and got me down. My nurse took over and wiped my face with some water and started leading me. When I was at the door she stopped so I could catch my breath. I was brought in while Muhammad was sitting on a bed in our house. My mother made me sit on his lap. The other men and women got up and left. The Prophet consummated his marriage with me in my house when I was nine years old." Given a choice, I believe most people would prefer to get their spiritual inspiration from someone who wasn't a intimate predator.

is this verse speaking to Muslims or Muhammad [as] but Jews of Jesus time, from which came the 12 disciples? Read your Bible because the message of Jesus is for the Jews, not muslims, not arabs, not africans.you have picked the wrong group to put yourself because you are not from any of the 12 nations of the children of israel. are you a benjamite?

Another LIE, You just cannot stop lying, can you ??

" Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit " - Matthew 28:19

" He said to them, "Go into all the world and preach the good news to all creation." - Mark 16:15

" But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes on you; and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth." - Acts 1:8

"I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting,’ the Lord replied.  ‘Now get up and stand on your feet. I have appeared to you to appoint you as a servant and as a witness of what you have seen and will see of me.  I will rescue you from your own people and from the Gentiles. I am sending you to them  to open their eyes and turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, so that they may receive forgiveness of sins and a place among those who are sanctified by faith in me.’" - Acts 26:15-18

"But the Lord said to Ananias, "Go! This man is my chosen instrument to carry my name before the Gentiles and their kings and before the people of Israel." - Acts 9:15[/b]

i now expect to carry out your threat upon yourself as in the first bold and quit christianity if you have any honesty in you by the below; Jesus said, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me" (John 14:6).

Indeed Jesus is the WAY , the TRUTH and the LIFE.

Muhammad is not the way, he is dead and buried, he tomb is still in Mecca today, he will one day wake up to judgement and bow his knee to the Almighty God of Israel.

is Jesus not lying if he said the bold to cover everyone from Adam to the end of time? let us examine the condition of the children of Israel since the became a people; Jacob became Israel, hence his children are the children of Israel. Jesus message is to them alone and no one else. Moses Message is also to them alone and no one else.

Another LIE


" he says: “It is too small a thing for you to be my servant    to restore the tribes of Jacob  and bring back those of Israel I have kept. I will also make you a light for the Gentiles,    that my salvation may reach to the ends of the earth.” - Isaiah 49:6

"Fellow children of Abraham and you God-fearing Gentiles, it is to us that this message of salvation has been sent." -Acts 13:26

n the time of Moses, however, they were 'slaves' of Pharaoh, so a strong man, Moses came as the way out to God. In essence Moses was the way to God and no one among the children of Israel can get to Yahweh except through Moses. my proofs; the many miracles that Moses showed to prove that he was the elect of God, His way. he finally by his staff drowned the military might of Egypt and Pharaoh their ruler. through Moses, God gave the 10 commandments which guided all those among them until death. if they followed this way of God through Moses, they have came to Yahweh. if they didn't they have not came to Yahweh.

What gibberish are you talking about, even Moses predicted the coming of the messiah.

“The Lord your God will raise up for you a prophet like me from among you, from your brothers—it is to him you shall listen—  just as you desired of the Lord your God at Horeb on the day of the assembly, when you said, ‘Let me not hear again the voice of the Lord my God or see this great fire any more, lest I die.’  And the Lord said to me, ‘They are right in what they have spoken.  I will raise up for them a prophet like you from among their brothers. And I will put my words in his mouth, and he shall speak to them all that I command him.  And whoever will not listen to my words that he shall speak in my name, I myself will require it of him.  But the prophet who presumes to speak a word in my name that I have not commanded him to speak, or who speaks in the name of other gods, that same prophet shall die.’  And if you say in your heart, ‘How may we know the word that the Lord has not spoken?’—  when a prophet speaks in the name of the Lord, if the word does not come to pass or come true, that is a word that the Lord has not spoken; the prophet has spoken it presumptuously. You need not be afraid of him." - Deuteronomy 18:15-22

the position of the 10 commandments was so powerful that Jesus had to obey it and in essence 'cursed' those who would abolish it as being the least in the kingdom of God.

, You are getting more and more confused.

AIRDIG:

Do you mean what you said? let's put your honor 7 integrity to test
now chew on this,

Does the Bible Approve of Lying?

Isn't it true the Bible condones lying and deception in several passages, indicating that God approves? Therefore, the Bible is a flawed book and Christianity is not worthy of respect, right?

For example, the Hebrew midwives lied to the Pharoah's men about male children born to the Israelite women (Exodus 1:19). Then, the very next verse indicates God approved: “So God was good to the midwives” (Exodus 1:20). God not only sanctioned the lie, He even blessed the midwives because of their deception.

But, the Bible also states the Lord is a God of truth (Psalm 31:5, 2 Samuel 7:28, Isaiah 65:16, Psalm 86:15). So, doesn't God's acceptance of lies and deception run counter to His nature?

First of all, learn to cite your sources. this was copied verbatim from another source.

Note the example you cite. God did not reward the midwives for lying, He did so because they saved the jewish male children. In that case, the women were allowed in that one account to lie in order to prevent a horrible evil, not to wickedly manipulate or gain an unfair advantage. Dont mix the two.

davidylan:

First of all, learn to cite your sources. this was copied verbatim from another source.

Note the example you cite. God did not reward the midwives for lying, He did so because they saved the jewish male children. In that case, the women were allowed in that one account to lie in order to prevent a horrible evil, not to wickedly manipulate or gain an unfair advantage. Dont mix the two.

This is an example of sophisticated christian theology. The point is they lied. The point is Abraham lied about Sarah being his wife, and god approved.
In another post, I pointed out that frosbel fails to take the log out of his eye before trying to take one out of another person's eye.
This post is another example of his delibrate attempts to cause trouble in the name of his god.

^^

The midwives would have none of the Pharaoh’s evil plan:

"The midwives, however, feared God and did not do what the king of Egypt had told them to do; they let the boys live. Then the king of Egypt summoned the midwives and asked them, ‘Why have you done this? Why have you let the boys live?’ The midwives answered Pharaoh, ‘Hebrew women are not like Egyptian women; they are vigorous and give birth before the midwives arrive’" (vss. 17-19).

It took a great amount of courage to defy a direct order from the Pharaoh. The source of their courage and their admirable behavior in this episode was that they "feared God." The fear of God is a good thing. It keeps us from evil.


Now let us put things in context, what was the result of their action ?? Thousands of Lives were saved.





Islam on the contrary approves deception for the explicit purpose of destruction and death. Please refer to Quranic and Hadith verses below to prove my point :

Bukhari:V7B67N427 "The Prophet said, 'If I take an oath and later find something else better than that, then I do what is better and expiate my oath.'"

Qur'an 9:3 "Allah and His Messenger dissolve obligations."

Qur'an 66:2 "Allah has already sanctioned for you the dissolution of your vows."

Bukhari:V4B52N268 "Allah's Apostle said, 'War is deceit.'"

Qur'an 4:142 "Surely the hypocrites strive to deceive Allah. He shall retaliate by deceiving them."

Bukhari:V7B71N661 "Magic was worked on Allah's Apostle and he was bewitched so that he began to imagine doing things which in fact, he had not done."

Bukhari:V6B60N8 "Umar said, 'Our best Qur'an reciter is Ubai. And in spite of this, we leave out some of his statements because Allah's Apostle himself said, "Whatever verse or revelation We abrogate or cause to be forgotten We bring a better one."

Qur'an 33:11 "In that situation the Believers were sorely tried and shaken as by a tremendous shaking. And behold! The Hypocrites and those in whose hearts is a disease said: 'Allah and His Messenger promised us nothing but delusion; they have promised only to deceive us."

Qur'an 33:14 "Say: Flight will not avail you if you flee from death, killing, or slaughter. In that case you will not be allowed to enjoy yourselves but a little while. Say, 'Who will screen you, saving you from Allah if he intends to harm and injure you?'"

Qur'an 33:21 "You have in (Muhammad) the Messenger of Allah a beautiful pattern of conduct for any one to follow."

Qur'an 74:31 "We have appointed nineteen angels to be the wardens of the Hell Fire. We made a stumbling-block for those who disbelieve and We have fixed their number as a trial for unbelievers in order that the people of the Book may arrive with certainty, and that no doubts may be left for the people of the Book, those in whose hearts is a disease. And for those to whom the Scripture Book has been given, and the believers, there should be no doubt. The unbelievers may say, 'What does the Lord intend by this?' The Lord will lead astray whomever He pleases, and He will guide whomever He pleases: and none can know the armies of your Lord except He, and this is no other than a warning to mankind."

Qur'an 74:52 "Each one of them wants to be given scrolls of revelation spread out! No! By no means! Nay, this is an admonishment. Let them keep it in remembrance! But they will not heed unless the Lord wants them to. He is the fountain of fear."

Bukhari:V2B24N555 "I heard the Prophet say, 'Allah hates for you for asking too many questions.'"



Your ALLAH and Prophets were habitual LIARs.

@Frosbel; « #8 on: Today at 09:40:51 PM »
[Quote]@Sweetnecta
Quote
about Aisha [ra] i asked when did her mother gave birth to her for her father who divorced this wife in the first year of revelation, because she refused to enter Islam with the whole family, you refused to answer. we know she was not pregnant with Aisha when she was divorced. we also know that she did not get pregnant for a husband who did not want her for a wife, but made her an ex-wife. do people who dislike a spouse so much so that they get divorced go get pregnant for the same spouse as divorced? a person with good moral like Abu Bakr [as] will not go behind and eat the meat that he rejected when it could been permissible.

Aisha Huh Grin

Ask your Imam

Muhammad was a The craddle-robber Pirate

Muhammad had no morals either.

Tabari VII:7 "The Prophet married Aisha in Mecca three years before the Hijrah, after the death of Khadija. At the time she was six."

Ishaq:281 "When the Apostle came to Medina he was fifty-three."[/Quote]i know you have no gut to stand behind your own words. you only make empty promises. Aisha [ra] herself called Muhammad [as] the walking Quran. no one called Jesus or Paul the living Bible. My proof about Muhammad was that Allah did not say he went against any order, including that a person must be a balagh [already matured for marriage, no more a pre puberty]. this goes for man and woman, not just woman.

Aisha participated in her own marriage contract. the remember where she was when a particular early Makkan Surah was revealed. these are profound evidence that she was not a little girl, 6 or 9 anymore in the 10th year of Islam. i dont know how old you are, it you are born in 1966 there is no way you can discuss the nigerian civil war except what your elders told you. for Aisha to say she knew when that early Makka Surah was revealed tell a normal mind that she knew her bearing already at that time.

Aisha was engaged already to a man just like Mary mother of Jesus was claimed to have been engaged to old man Joseph the carpenter. The engagement of Aisha was annulled because of her father's entry into Islamic faith the reason he divorced Aish's mother earlier. how do i know that it was earlier? i know because as the pagans were making life intolerable to the muslims, Abu Bakr [ra] approach the family of the future husband to take her off his hand so that he may go as an emigre to Ethiopia. Just as the family was turning his request down, they said to him that they do not want to be in laws to muslim man, him. it was by divine order that here was a powerful man who decided that he will protect Abu Bakr, one powerful makkan before embracing islam to be able to remain in his father's land, Makka and keep Aisha his daughter.

we can't therefore say that in year 10 of islam, Aisha is only 6 or 9. she must have to be born by the time she was engaged to a previous future husband, being a female in her mother's womb no one can know her gender then until delivery. we know her mother didn't get pregnant after Abu Bakr divorced her and was not pregnant at the time of divorce. if you know better and you can prove it, please do so.

I have asked you to tell me if Abu Bakr became a new father after entering Islam, who was the child born and which wife was the mother, and what year was the birth, you have failed to answer. how many years was Asmaa [ra] older than Aisha?


this is a step by step logical argument of my view. If all hadith are true, then the books of hadith will be in the same level with Quran. we know that is not so. Hadith that does not agree with Quran is canned. all the hadith collectors you referenced, if they do not make a single mistake, their work will be in the level as Quran and we know Whose Word is the Quran.


As i defend the truth, please unravel my premise. then defend the lies of your god in his book; the bibles.
did Jesus not say whoever calls a person raca [fool] he will be in hell. then Jesus called somebody 'fool'. is Jesus in hell? if he is not, you bible has confirmed the worst; he lied.

your God is not merciful. My God is Merciful.


to justify lying of the midwives by preventing evil is similar to a muslim who told the enemies of his people that his people are more equipped and more powerful than they are, a husband saying to his ugly wife that she is very beautiful or a friend saying to one of the feuding friends that the other friend said good things about him, like missing his companionship when such a statement had not been made. these make sense.


i am still expecting you to resign your membership from christianity, and i will hold you to it.

@Frosbel;[Quote] Another LIE, You just cannot stop lying, can you ??

" Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit " - Matthew 28:19

" He said to them, "Go into all the world and preach the good news to all creation." - Mark 16:15

" But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes on you; and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth." - Acts 1:8

"I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting,’ the Lord replied. ‘Now get up and stand on your feet. I have appeared to you to appoint you as a servant and as a witness of what you have seen and will see of me. I will rescue you from your own people and from the Gentiles. I am sending you to them to open their eyes and turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, so that they may receive forgiveness of sins and a place among those who are sanctified by faith in me.’" - Acts 26:15-18

"But the Lord said to Ananias, "Go! This man is my chosen instrument to carry my name before the Gentiles and their kings and before the people of Israel." - Acts 9:15[/b][/Quote]are talking about Jesus of the bibles or another Jesus? here is what Jesus said; “I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel” (Matthew 15:24). ,

compare the two and tell me if both are from the same speaker and he has not lied?

where is your resignation letter, frosbel?

@Frosbel: [Quote]
Indeed Jesus is the WAY , the TRUTH and the LIFE.

Muhammad is not the way, he is dead and buried, he tomb is still in Mecca today, he will one day wake up to judgement and bow his knee to the Almighty God of Israel.[/Quote] if the bold does not cover Moses, Aaron, young Joshua and the children of Israel who didn't enter hell, or covers Noah, his people in the ship who didn't drown, Jesus is indeed not the way, the truth and the life, because Noah was in his own time, Moses was in his own time.

i will stop here because you now know that there was a liar on the pages of the bibles; saying he is the only way when the rest of us who are not gullible know that he is not.


where is your leaving christianity?

@Frosbel; [Quote]Another LIE


" he says: “It is too small a thing for you to be my servant to restore the tribes of Jacob and bring back those of Israel I have kept. I will also make you a light for the Gentiles, that my salvation may reach to the ends of the earth.” - Isaiah 49:6

"Fellow children of Abraham and you God-fearing Gentiles, it is to us that this message of salvation has been sent." -Acts 13:26[/Quote]is either of this from Jesus?

maybe you will say Isiah was Jesus? then the people in the acts were Jesus[es]?

where is your conscience, frosbel? you have none i am thinking?

@Frosbel; [Quote]What gibberish are you talking about, even Moses predicted the coming of the messiah.

“The Lord your God will raise up for you a prophet like me from among you, from your brothers—it is to him you shall listen— just as you desired of the Lord your God at Horeb on the day of the assembly, when you said, ‘Let me not hear again the voice of the Lord my God or see this great fire any more, lest I die.’ And the Lord said to me, ‘They are right in what they have spoken. I will raise up for them a prophet like you from among their brothers. And I will put my words in his mouth, and he shall speak to them all that I command him. And whoever will not listen to my words that he shall speak in my name, I myself will require it of him. But the prophet who presumes to speak a word in my name that I have not commanded him to speak, or who speaks in the name of other gods, that same prophet shall die.’ And if you say in your heart, ‘How may we know the word that the Lord has not spoken?’— when a prophet speaks in the name of the Lord, if the word does not come to pass or come true, that is a word that the Lord has not spoken; the prophet has spoken it presumptuously. You need not be afraid of him." - Deuteronomy 18:15-22
[/Quote]is this above talking about Jesus? no.
why? Jesus had nothing in common with moses except bloodline; Moses was 100% a prophet. You said Jesus in not.
Moses spoke only what God commanded him. You said Jesus was god and he in reality don't have to accept anyone's commandments.
Personal life and spiritual successes they are completely different.

What is so interesting about the above verses are what i highlighted. raising a prophet like moses from 'among you, from your brothers' is not exactly saying it will come from the children of Israel. thats the first observation. if we for the sake of argument say it is only from the children and not the other branch of the house of Abraham, we can say any prophet less than 100 years or so after Moses is the prophet and that will eliminate Jesus altogether. How?

Moses spoke a people alive in his time and if the prophesy was to come true, at least one of the people in the time of Moses will have to be alive when it happened. we know that Jesus did not meet any of Moses people on earth.

Why would you not allow Jesus to be a possible candidate? The christians have used their shallow thinking to boxed themselves in; they said another comforter is a ghost instead of a man, and must arrive in the lifetime of the disciples. in their haste to eliminate the true another comforter, they failed to even see that if the argued that Paul was it, it would have been difficult to deny his candidacy, except that Paul didn't say he is hearing from God, but he only heard from Jesus, but Paul fulfilled all other aspects of the roles of the another comforter, because he led the disciples to all things, he corrected them and showed them things to come and of course he glorified Jesus.

the things that will eliminate Paul apart from the fact that he did not say that he was talking to God, since Jesus said before he left that God in Heaven will send the another Comforter, we know it is God's Role to do so, unless Jesus was not telling the truth here as well. What collectively eliminate Jesus as the prophet Moses was talking about is that Jesus didn't speak only what he heard from God in heaven and he and Paul made statements that didn't come true, therefore must be false prophets.

What statement did Jesus make that he failed to make good on? He said he will return to earth before the last of the disciples died. We know that didn't happen.

i will ignore Paul. Frosbel, where is your resignation?




[Quote]
the position of the 10 commandments was so powerful that Jesus had to obey it and in essence 'cursed' those who would abolish it as being the least in the kingdom of God.

Huh Huh, You are getting more and more confused.[/Quote]how? is Jesus above the laws and the prophets? what did he fulfilled then and warned that no one must abolish?

@Davidylan: « #9 on: Yesterday at 09:57:15 PM »
[Quote]Quote from: AIRDIG on Yesterday at 06:39:25 PM
Do you mean what you said? let's put your honor 7 integrity to test
now chew on this,

Does the Bible Approve of Lying?

Isn't it true the Bible condones lying and deception in several passages, indicating that God approves? Therefore, the Bible is a flawed book and Christianity is not worthy of respect, right?

For example, the Hebrew midwives lied to the Pharoah's men about male children born to the Israelite women (Exodus 1:19). Then, the very next verse indicates God approved: “So God was good to the midwives” (Exodus 1:20). God not only sanctioned the lie, He even blessed the midwives because of their deception.

But, the Bible also states the Lord is a God of truth (Psalm 31:5, 2 Samuel 7:28, Isaiah 65:16, Psalm 86:15). So, doesn't God's acceptance of lies and deception run counter to His nature?

First of all, learn to cite your sources. this was copied verbatim from another source.

Note the example you cite. God did not reward the midwives for lying, He did so because they saved the jewish male children. In that case, the women were allowed in that one account to lie in order to prevent a horrible evil, not to wickedly manipulate or gain an unfair advantage. Dont mix the two.[/Quote]I will not bother with the poor midwives. Lets deal with Jesus;

1] You are a fool, the sayer will go to hell fire.
Jesus then says you are a fool.

Where is Jesus in the above?


2] I am sent to the lost sheep of the house of israel.
2a] I am sent to the whole world.

Which one is a lie coming from the same mouth?


3] I will return before you people died.
2,000 years and counting he has not returned.

Is that not a lie?


I have tons of these.


Frosbel, see your life in Christianity? It is fool of lies upon lies.

^^^^^^^^^^^^

I have to admit that I am furious with Frosbel. I intended to write full, instead of the fool that I wrote.

Frosbel; I want you resignation letter on my desk by the time the sun rises over river thames

Zodiac61:

This is an example of sophisticated christian theology. The point is they lied. The point is Abraham lied about Sarah being his wife, and god approved.
In another post, I pointed out that frosbel fails to take the log out of his eye before trying to take one out of another person's eye.
This post is another example of his delibrate attempts to cause trouble in the name of his god.

nothing sophisticated about it. its plain as day, you can take it or leave it. i'm not one of those who believes the gospel MUST NEEDS be understood by all especially those who are DETERMINED not to understand it.

With regard to Abraham, in those days they married their close relatives . . . so indeed Sarah was his sister. Stop making comments based on the half-baked nonsense you read off of websites.

With regard to the midwives, yes they lied . . . to prevent the death of millions of babies. They didnt lie to gain an unfair advantage or wickedly manipulate others. You are free to turn up your nose at this, the explanation really isnt about appeasing you afterall.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ wishy washy.

Abraham was asked if she was his wife. yes she is my wife should have been the answer. if he wanted to say she is also my sister fine. but to say she is my sister alone and nothing further is not the truth. even though i have no problem with his strategy, but truth is always absolute.

as to the mid wives, God was going to preserve Moses, and He did under the care of his enemy. your excuses for the midwives are defeated by God Himself by Moses's life preserved.

but what is important is your avoiding to acknowledge the lies of Jesus according to the Bibles; is Jesus the Only God?

is God One? IS God The Lord One? Has anyone seen God face to face?

is calling a person a fool means going to hell?

has Jesus returned to his disciples?

Did the another comforter hears from God speaks only what he hears; where are the records of what he heard and spoke?

is God the Judge? how about Jesus and his 12 disciples? that must include Judas te son of Iscariot. these were the disciples of Jesus.

Sweetnecta:

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ wishy washy.

Abraham was asked if she was his wife. yes she is my wife should have been the answer. if he wanted to say she is also my sister fine. but to say she is my sister alone and nothing further is not the truth. even though i have no problem with his strategy, but truth is always absolute.

as to the mid wives, God was going to preserve Moses, and He did under the care of his enemy. your excuses for the midwives are defeated by God Himself by Moses's life preserved.

but what is important is your avoiding to acknowledge the lies of Jesus according to the Bibles; is Jesus the Only God?

is God One? IS God The Lord One? Has anyone seen God face to face?

is calling a person a fool means going to hell?

has Jesus returned to his disciples?

Did the another comforter hears from God speaks only what he hears; where are the records of what he heard and spoke?

is God the Judge? how about Jesus and his 12 disciples? that must include Judas te son of Iscariot. these were the disciples of Jesus.

but i thought allah was the one who sent the torah? Shouldnt he have guarded against such a mistake?

We are talking about your gods in the trinity, mehn [lol; mashaAllah]

what i have quoted were all in your Bibles. torah you ain't got , son.


when you have the torah of Musa, let me know, doll.


answer the freakin question, man up.

you wanna be coward now?

you are just like de dude strung up; before they got him, he was like all mouth.

when the mob got him, suddenly he aint king no more. [lol. you call this on yoursef jack]

davidylan:

nothing sophisticated about it. its plain as day, you can take it or leave it. i'm not one of those who believes the gospel MUST NEEDS be understood by all especially those who are DETERMINED not to understand it.

With regard to Abraham, in those days they married their close relatives . . . so indeed Sarah was his sister. Stop making comments based on the half-baked nonsense you read off of websites.

With regard to the midwives, yes they lied . . . to prevent the death of millions of babies. They didnt lie to gain an unfair advantage or wickedly manipulate others. You are free to turn up your nose at this, the explanation really isnt about appeasing you afterall.

Typical christian dishonesty. Over the years, one has become accustomed to their capacity to lie and make things up as they go along.
For one who appears to get his morality from the insane justifications of William Craig Lane,the above comment is very rich.
Put aside he fact that the the Israelites were never enslaved by the Egyptians, and gte Exodus account never ever happened, it is debatable whether you know the bible as well as you claim.
What did I write that is not from the bible? Instead, you introduce another dimension: god supports in.cest.
Abraham lied, Sarah was his wife. Twisting the plain facts is dishonest.

^^ I'm puzzled.

If we start from Eden (assuming you accept the Biblical perspective you are using to argue), how would mankind have been propagated aside "incest"? I thought the first instinct is survival - would you rather extinction than "incest"? So what's special about Abraham marrying a half sister under those conditions. Or has Davidylan supported that someone marry their mother "today"?

You say "God supports it" but where? Do you see Abraham "rewarded" for incest? Where is this famous "support"? Its like the quest to find error has got you grasping at straws here.

Did God send lying spirits?

Astute Bible students and critics have noticed a passage in which the prophet Micaiah described a vision in which it appears God not only condoned lying, but promoted it:

“I saw the LORD sitting on His throne, and all the host of heaven standing on His right and on His left. The Lord said, 'Who will entice Ahab king of Israel to go up and fall at Ramoth-gilead?' And one said this while another said that. Then a spirit came forward and stood before the Lord and said, 'I will entice him.' And the Lord said to him, 'How?' He said, 'I will go and be a deceiving spirit in the mouth of all his prophets.' Then He said, 'You are to entice him and prevail also. Go and do so.' Now therefore, behold, the Lord has put a deceiving spirit in the mouth of these your prophets, for the Lord has proclaimed disaster against you." (2 Chronicles 18:18-22)

Another example is given by the Apostle Paul:

“and with all the deception of wickedness for those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth so as to be saved. For this reason God will send upon them a deluding influence so that they will believe what is false, in order that they all may be judged who did not believe the truth, but took pleasure in wickedness.” (2 Thessalonians 2:10-12)

Isn't that disingenuous for God to command people not to lie (Exodus 20:16), then personally promote deception?

^^

Let us "reason"

If we start our discussion from the point of view that God exists as Christians state, we needs must accept that He is not bound by the same laws or morals we are bound by

So I ask - do you have a dog? Does it have the same priviledges you have e.g. would you allow it sleep with your wife (and be considered normal)? In the same way does God have us (even greater since we did not create our dogs)- do we then expect to share same "priviledges"? Laws were made for us and not Him just as you expect friendship but not equality of your dog.

Where there is no law, there is NO transgression. What laws were made for God?

Jon.Bee:

Did God send lying spirits?

Astute Bible students and critics have noticed a passage in which the prophet Micaiah described a vision in which it appears God not only condoned lying, but promoted it:

“I saw the LORD sitting on His throne, and all the host of heaven standing on His right and on His left. The Lord said, 'Who will entice Ahab king of Israel to go up and fall at Ramoth-gilead?' And one said this while another said that. Then a spirit came forward and stood before the Lord and said, 'I will entice him.' And the Lord said to him, 'How?' He said, 'I will go and be a deceiving spirit in the mouth of all his prophets.' Then He said, 'You are to entice him and prevail also. Go and do so.' Now therefore, behold, the Lord has put a deceiving spirit in the mouth of these your prophets, for the Lord has proclaimed disaster against you." (2 Chronicles 18:18-22)

Another example is given by the Apostle Paul:

“and with all the deception of wickedness for those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth so as to be saved. For this reason God will send upon them a deluding influence so that they will believe what is false, in order that they all may be judged who did not believe the truth, but took pleasure in wickedness.” (2 Thessalonians 2:10-12)

Isn't that disingenuous for God to command people not to lie (Exodus 20:16), then personally promote deception?

One must pay careful attention to what's going on in 1 King 22.

Ahab is the King of Israel. Obviously, he doesn't want to hear any bad news, or anything that would suggest he's a bad king, so he surrounds himself with prophets, who prophesy favorably for him. In reality, these "prophets" are liars, they are false prophets, who tell Ahab what he wants to hear. They're not really receiving any divine messages from God, they're just saying anything they can to make Ahab happy. Later, Ahab allies himself with Jehoshaphat, the King of Judah, and the two decide to fight against Syria in order to seize the city of Ramoth-Gilead. So Jehoshaphat tells Ahab, "Hey, see what God has to say about this." So Ahab consults his "prophets", who tell him, "Oh, yeah, you'll have no problem taking Ramoth-Gilead!"

Jehoshaphat, however, is suspicious that every single "prophet" is in agreement that Ahab will be victorious. Surely if Ahab was a good king, and hired out his "prophets" objectively, there would be at least some disagreement between false and true prophets. So Jehoshaphat asks Ahab, "Are there any other prophets around that we haven't consulted?" Ahab, reluctantly, agrees to seek the advice of the prophet Micaiah, but he tells Jehoshaphat, "This prophet only ever says bad things about me." That's our hint; would a prophet risk telling the King of Israel that he's a lousy king if he wasn't a true prophet from God?

So they get Micaiah, and Micaiah tells Ahab, "Oh, yeah, you'll win Ramoth-Gilead too." But Ahab thinks to himself, "Wait, this guy only ever says bad stuff about me, so why is he saying good things?" So Ahab tells Micaiah, "Speak truthfully now, don't sugarcoat God's word." So Micaiah answers, "Your forces are going to be scattered, like sheep without a shepherd."

Now Ahab's upset. "See Jehoshaphat? He only says bad things about me!"

Then Micaiah responds with the portion of the text you have in the first post above. But is Micaiah really saying that God literally sent "a lying spirit", or is there another possible meaning?

I would say that God didn't literally send "a lying spirit", as in, an angel whose mission is to lie. What God did is the same as what Paul said in his letter:
2 Thessalonians 2.11-12: Therefore God sends them a strong delusion, so that they may believe what is false, in order that all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
Ahab was a wicked king. God's will was that Ahab should be removed from power over Israel. So in accordance with God's divine will, he enabled and allowed Ahab to surround himself with false prophets. God's punishment was that Ahab would be killed in battle. But in historical fulfillment, Ahab was the one who caused it to happen, because he was the one who voluntarily listened to the lying prophets that he surrounded himself with. God decreed the punishment, and Ahab unknowingly carried it out himself.

But there's one thing most Christians fail to notice. Micaiah reveals to Ahab that God wanted Ahab to believe the lie, because that would mean Ahab would end up going to Ramoth-Gilead and receiving his divine punishment. But when Micaiah is told to prophesy something good for Ahab, Micaiah says, "I will say what God tells me to say",  and then he lies to Ahab. Micaiah was intentionally agreeing with all of the other prophets because that's what God told him to do.

What Micaiah describes is simply a prophetic vision he has that represents what actually happened through a simpler series of images. Instead of describing the whole backstory to Ahab's wickedness, and Micaiah simply says, "God decreed that you should be punished, and sent a lying spirit to cause that punishment to come to fruition." Micaiah's vision in 1 Kings 22.19-23 is no more literal than Zechariah's vision in Zechariah 5.5-11. Prophetic visions represent historical events through symbolic representations. Sometimes these symbolic representations are simpler than the historical events themselves (e.g. 1 Kings 22.19-23; Zechariah 5.5-11; Malachi 4.2-3), and sometimes they are incredibly complex (e.g. Ezekiel 16; Daniel 7; Revelation 4-22).

One thing people forget is that all angels are still subject to GOD .

The reason why GOD is always on and on about repentance and avoiding sin is that when we sin and dwell in wickedness, the hedge of protection between us and God is broken and God can allow evil spirits to have their way with that person albeit only for a period , till they repent. If they refuse to repent then the spirit of lies takes over them.

Lying spirits are demonic spirits, God in this case has allowed a lying demon to afflict the false prophets for the simple reason that they hated the truth and Ahab loved a lie. So God gave Ahab what he wanted.

When people hate and reject the truth like Muhammad and Muslims do, God allows the demons of lies to take them over.

When God calls and people do not listen but carry on stubbornly in sin, God has a right to send judgement and all these are types of judgement.

[b]"How long will you who are simple love your simple ways?
How long will mockers delight in mockery
and fools hate knowledge?
Repent at my rebuke!
Then I will pour out my thoughts to you,
I will make known to you my teachings.
But since you refuse to listen when I call
and no one pays attention when I stretch out my hand,
since you disregard all my advice
and do not accept my rebuke,
I in turn will laugh when disaster strikes you;
I will mock when calamity overtakes you—
when calamity overtakes you like a storm,
when disaster sweeps over you like a whirlwind,
when distress and trouble overwhelm you.

“Then they will call to me but I will not answer;
they will look for me but will not find me,
since they hated knowledge
and did not choose to fear the LORD.
Since they would not accept my advice
and spurned my rebuke,
they will eat the fruit of their ways
and be filled with the fruit of their schemes.
For the waywardness of the simple will kill them,
and the complacency of fools will destroy them;
but whoever listens to me will live in safety
and be at ease, without fear of harm.” - Proverbs 1:22-23
[/b]


If you hate the truth like Ahab did and many multiplied millions do today, God will eventually allow lying spirits to tell you want to hear and if you are not careful and refuse to repent , they will lead you on to destruction just like Muhammad was led into error and finally was destroyed by these same lying spirits.

Yeeepa!. undisputed liar, no one can do what you can do. Struggling to explain his lies away.

Zodiac61:

This is an example of sophisticated christian theology. The point is they lied. The point is Abraham lied about Sarah being his wife, and god approved.
In another post, I pointed out that frosbel fails to take the log out of his eye before trying to take one out of another person's eye.
This post is another example of his delibrate attempts to cause trouble in the name of his god.

This is an example of sophisticated christian theology. The point is the christian god approve of lies.
In another post, I pointed out that frosbel fails to take the log out of his eye before trying to take one out of another person's eye.
This post is another example of his delibrate attempts to cause trouble in the name of his god.

^^

There are spiritual things that only a spiritual man can understand.

A man dead in his sins, is totally blind to the things of GOD.

But let us contrast Yahweh with ALLAH.

Based on the verses quoted above, ALLAH personally lies and deceives.

This is not about my religion is better than your religion as I do not believe in religion.

This is a mater of life and death, the eternal destiny of your soul.

If you make a mistake here, you lose your soul, your only soul.

Reading the bible like a story book will only confuse you more and more till you start to behave like Muslims

"But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks ( worldly wise ) foolishness;" 1 Corinthians 1:23



"The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned." - 1 Corinthians 2:24


" the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be in you." - John 14:17


" For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe." - 1 Corinthians 1:21

frosbel:

Qur'an (3:54) - "And they (the disbelievers) schemed, and Allah schemed (against them): and Allah is the best of schemers." The Arabic word used here for scheme (or plot) is makara, which literally means deceit. If Allah is deceitful toward unbelievers, then there is little basis for denying that Muslims are allowed to do the same. (See also 8:30 and 10:21)

Taken collectively these verses are interpreted to mean that there are circumstances when a Muslim may be "compelled" to deceive others for a greater purpose.

The above gibberish you wrote will not get anywhere closer to the truth, what it serves is to make you a slide the perilous road to the devils deciet;

1- The word „makr‟ used for Allah: “And they planned and Allah (also) planned (yamkurullah), and Allah is the best of planners.” (Qur‟an 8:30) “What! do they then feel secure from Allah's plan (makr-ullah)? But none feels secure from Allah's plan (makr-ullah)? except the people who shall perish.” (Qur‟an 7:99) “And they planned a plan, and We planned a plan (makarna makran) while they perceived not.” (Qur‟an 27:50)
2- Meaning of „makr‟ according to Muslim lexicographers:
Raghib Isfahani, the well known classical Qur‟anic lexicographer writes about the word „makr‟ that it is used to denote a plan and strategy and has two connotation, the good and the evil. (Mufradaat Al-Qur'an 1/471)
3.Meaning of „makr‟ according to Edward Lane‟s lexicon: See Edward William Lane‟s Arabic English Lexicon Part 7 p.256
4.4- „Makr‟ itself does not have the connotation of evil in it:
It becomes evident from the above testimonies that the Arabic word „makr‟ means a plan and strategy which may be good or evil. This is clarified beyond all doubt from its following Qur‟anic usage; “(In) behaving proudly in the land and in planning evil (makr as-sayy); and the evil plans (makr as-sayy) shall not beset any save the authors of it. Then should they wait for aught except the way of the former people?” (Qur‟an 35:43) Here Qur‟an says ‘makr as-sayy’which means „evil plan‟. And it is the word „al-sayy’ which means „evil‟. Now the point to note is that if the word „makr’ by itself has the connotation of evil in it then why use the word „evil‟ with it separately? Those who know even the modicum of linguistics understand well that this example is a categorical proof that „makr‟ intrinsically does not give the nuance of evil.

The picture inserted is from Edward Lane's Lexicon of Arabic