Dtruthspeaker:
whilst I am aware of the power extremes i will never go there except when it comes to the Choice of God over anything and everything.

Well, we have now found this to be a lie, as we can observe on this thread that you had already gone to so-called "extremeties" after I kept giving you sharp knocks on your head, and the pain provoked you to hurl your own insults at me. So your faux sanctimony has been shredded to pieces. Your victim card has been rejected, take it away and stuff it back into your shithole

I Choose God anyway, anytime anywhere even if I would be murdered for my choice.

And I choose rationality, logic and reason anyway, anytime anywhere even if I would be murdered for my choice, over a concept as nebulous as god

No you didn't!

Denial of the truth may help you sleep well at night, but it won't change the truth that I did address them and did it superbly, without any coherent counters or rejoinders to my position

All you did was either a change of post, deviation from issue, raising fresh issues, argument that did not address the issue raised etc, all invalid arguments.

None of which you can actually prove, and are just a list of excuses drafted by a very sore loser who got trashed so well like a callous youth who was found with his hands in the cookie jar. I told you before that you're not good at recognizing a well-reasoned argument from a fallacious one. You can't follow logical syllogisms, and you don't know how to make proper deductions.

Dtruthspeaker:


ALL The Laws and Principles of Morality are contained in book called the Bible. And there is no single law of morality that is left out.

I have been following this thread..


Truth be told you are just too dull...

Endtimer:


This answer is particularly easy to debunk. On first reading it I assumed you made a few points. Now I believe otherwise.

I’ll address it backwards:
- Yes, increased unbelief is correlated with decreased rates of personal fulfillment. We are all aware that the west is experiencing reduced religious involvement. Cursory internet searches will furnish you with associated data on decreased personal happiness. Your question is therefore pointless. Whether it is directly caused by or just happens to coincide with is beside the point.

I had asked you for a source. You haven't provided any. Why should I lend some complete stranger credence?

Your point about finding your own purpose is subjective and ultimately inconsequential. The purpose you pick for yourself only has no actual value. You might as well decide to become a superhero tomorrow.

This is a particularly stupid riposte. There is a clear difference between choosing what I value and choosing my capabilities. Surely you possess the mental acuity to at least see that.

Further, your dismissing of the subjective choices we all make rather undercuts your own faith, because that too is a subjective choice you have made about which credo you will follow. As such, by your own logic your choice is just as insipid as mine.

The value is subjective and not ultimate. On theism, it is believed that ultimate value can only be given if a thing has a purpose for which it is created. On atheism life is the result of mindless chance irrespective of the illusion of purpose with which you preoccupy yourself. Such a life has no ultimate value; only one that you make up as you go.

I really don't care what theists believe about me or my outlook. I'll let you know if that changes, but don't hold your breath. And again, your choice to believe in your god is equally subjective. Or, if you are compelled by objectivity, then you've just undercut free will. Congratulations.

Further, this means that the atheist has no qualms against suicide. Life is random and valueless.

Again, your unspoken premise is that values may only be handed down from on high. In that sense, you are simply reiterating your argument, not supporting it.

In fact, all forms of crime lose their moral reprehensibility. To prevent this would require collective delusion. The atheist society would require that it’s members all believe something that isn’t true for the sake of living together. Everyone would have to believe certain things are good and others bad just so that they can coexist.

This is one big non sequitur. Just because values are subjective, that doesn't mean that people cannot agree upon many, most, or all of them. Sloppy thinking on your part does not an argument make.

Lastly, religion does provide the only consistent basis for society. That is to say, religious societies operate based on what coheres with reality whereas atheist societies depend on consensus.

All societies depend upon consensus regarding basic mores. And quite frankly, the idea that religious thought coheres with reality is laughable.

They decide what is reality and act as though this delusion is correct. This is exceedingly clear when it comes to morality and legislation which are inextricable.

You think morality and legislation are inextricably linked? Are you saying that all laws have a basis in morality?

Now, I've already asked for sourcing for your bald claims, which sourcing is noticeable by its absence in this second pile of bald assertions. I assume that your tacit refusal to do so means that you have none. If I'm wrong on this, feel free to show that, by providing said sources.

Endtimer:
You mention Europe; the continent responsible for spreading religion around the world.

The ignorance encapsulated in this one sentence is stunning.

midnight378:


Great. So you're proposing that people who actually don't believe *say* they do, to obtain a result ? LOL
there are studies that show people do worse when they think people are praying for them.
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/20...ayed%20for.




Un huh.... you're saying the mind is powerful , so we should lie to ourselves to obtain an outcome. I'm sorry but that is utterly stupid and dishonest .



Everyone has their own social groups . Your unsupported assumptions are wrong , and again....., you're proposing it's better to be dishonest, as you claim it produces a better outcome. GREAT.... So here we have somebody who proposes we tell ourselves things we don't believe because it produces a better outcome .
No matter what the studies show , this is ridiculous in the extreme,... and basically proves that you promote dishonesty for the sake of outcome,... based on nothing ,.... and based on concepts you attempt to justify secondary to the outcomes, not the reality. I doubt I've ever read such utter rubbish.



Prove it. Unsupported assertion.
Even if true, think about it . You want to change their personality type ?
You want to FORCE them to join religious groups, even though they might hate it ?
THAT's a great idea..... Not!
Do you have data to support this ? What about religious people who prefer to be alone ?
You going to force them to change also ?

"Negative Aspects of Religious Involvement" Along with the presumed benefits of religious involvement for health, religion may also be associated with negative outcomes, such as poorer mental and physical health status, negative coping behaviors, and inappropriate use of health services."
https://www.annualreviews.org/doi/pdf/10...%2C%20106).

You just jumped midway into my conversation with another person to interpret everything I have presented based on what you think and not what I have intended them for.

I am not asking any one to believe in a God ,deceive themselves, or practice any religion simply because of what they may or not benefit from it.

The person I am conversing with, I believe ,should understand me better than you.

Please take a back sit for now and don't take my assertions out of the context in which they were made.

Smug arrogance combined with utter cluelessness.
Priceless

Big bang and first cause, atheism and (objective) morals, those are only two examples of what i mean. If Endtimer wanted, a quick google search and just an hour of reading would tell him why he is so utterly wrong.
But he is not here to have a bidirectional conversation, Endtimer is not here to learn.

Endtimer:


I was saving my answers for the better informed atheists but I’ll take a stab at your falsehoods. The big bang is the event before which there are no events. It is allegedly the explosive expansion of space from a singularity (which you are claiming is uncreated, I’ll remind you of that soon enough). You also mentioned the multiverse which means your knowledge of physics is influenced by comic books. I’d advise you to visit a library where you’ll probably learn to trying to duck causation by claiming that there is a larger multiverse is simply geography. Any theist worth his salt would change the discussion to be about this multiverse (actually still called a universe as the term multiverse is meaningless).

After the Big Bang, space-time began to exist. It is a contradiction in terms to say something happened before the Big Bang as there was no time before it. The singularity you posited as constantly existing is scientifically unsupported. The cosmic microwave background only supports that the universe is expanding outwards. We intuitively assume that it must have come from a hypothetical singularity based on common logic. The question as to what caused this expansion and the creation of the universe at the Big Bang is what is relevant. The singularity is a common myth and your assertion that it existed eternally before the Big Bang is as unsupported as the singularity itself.

I’ll conclude that theists didn’t hi-jack the Big Bang. It was conceived by George Lemaitre, a catholic priest.

..and you would be wrong and you were told why you were wrong, and it went over your head...
You were given the definition and you cannot answer "what was at high temperature and density that banged ?". Nothing changed. Energy was preserved... nothing was "caused". The concept of the Big Bang Theory has changed (as all science does) since it was conceived of. A lot of Catholics opposed it at the time.
Obviously you know nothing about Physics and the history of physics . you don't know anything about whether there were other events . All you know about is 5 % of this universe. That's hardly enough to make any conclusions from. So best you take another stab. Roger Penrose, (Hawking's friend) wrote a book called "Cycles of Time". He contradicts you. You should learn to read books . The Big Bang Theory is about the EXPANSIONARY phase of the universe.... It's not about a "creation" phase. Yes theists, specifically Fundamentalist Christians , hijacked the theory to say what it does not.....
"Around 13.7 billion years ago, everything in the entire universe was condensed in an infinitesimally small singularity, a point of infinite denseness and heat. Suddenly, an explosive expansion began, ballooning our universe outwards faster than the speed of light". See that. There was a "point" that banged . It says nothing about a "point" being created..

Even granting that there was a "creation" event, (which I don't grant), ... it says nothing about your "cause" (which you just contradicted yourself about by saying there no "time" before) ... it's actually space-time, and clearly there was a "progression" (space-time) from the "tiny dot" to an expanding universe, and you know nothing about or when space-time began to "fall out" of the properties of the early universe. You also know nothing of the properties which were extant in any extra-universe state in which your god must have existed, and it's requirements for a cause.... typical theist assumption error . All you know is how things work in a very small subsection of this universe, and 95 % of this universe is unknown, (Dark Energy and Dark Matter) .... you really should go get a science education.

here's one of the spectacular failures of your proposed bullshit. Dinesh D'Souza used to debate about the Utilitarian nature of Christianity.
Until he didn't. LOL. https://www.fbi.gov/contact-us/field-off...ance-fraud

triplechoice:


You just jumped midway into my conversation with another person to interpret everything I have presented based on what you think and not what I have intended them for.

I am not asking any one to believe in a God ,deceive themselves, or practice any religion simply because of what they may or not benefit from it.

The person I am conversing with, I believe ,should understand me better than you.

Please take a back sit for now and don't take my assertions out of the context in which they were made.

if I need any advice from the likes of you..., I'll be sure and ask.
what you intend is perfectly obvious.
Nice try at evasion though. This is a public forum . I'll comment on whatever I decide to comment on, including your rubbish.

TheDictatorNd:

Judaism is the only true religion of the bible, any worship you give to God that contradict the law he gave to moses is false worship

You're wrong Sir!
First of all Judaism is not the religion Moses practiced in his time, Judaism started few centuries before Jesus, it was a religion mixed with Babylonian mythology as it was the returning Jews from Babylon that began misconstruing the laws trying to give it a better meaning only to end up in interfaith.
Secondly the God of Abraham promised that the Old Covenant which came with the laws will not continue {Jeremiah 31:33} Moses was the mediator of the Old Covenant and it was between God and only the nation of Israel that the covenant was established {Exodus 19:5} so God promised that by the time His chosen prophet Messiah (Christ) comes Israelites must listen to him {Deuteronomy 18:18-19} because it's the Christ that will bridge the gap segregating the Israelites from other nations.
So the Bible wasn't complete by the time Jews were practicing Judaism. The last prophet Malachi who penned down the last book of the Old Testament made it clear that the Jews have gone off course!
Please don't call it Bible if you're not counting Christianity as the only true religion because without the 27 books written by the Christians it's called "SCRIPTURES" it's the books written by the Christians that completed the book called BIBLE!

midnight378:


if I need any advice from the likes of you..., I'll be sure and ask.
what you intend is perfectly obvious.
Nice try at evasion though. This is a public forum . I'll comment on whatever I decide to comment on, including your rubbish.

Next time don't be lazy to read what has gone before.

If you had done that you wouldn't have responded the way you did.

You certainly can respond to anything here and even respond any how you like. Nobody is stopping you.
But when you quote me to take my comments out of the context in which they were made, then don't take offence or accuse me of evasion when corrected.

It's what I have done and would do again, if you repeat the same behavior.

Even the article I referenced, you also demonstrated that you didn't understand it.

The extract you took from it and posted is not very well .understood by you. Reasons were giving why those happen, but you were blind to them.

It is the same mindset which produces the good effects for anyone who practice any belief system is what also produces the bad. It is explained there.

If you can't make sense of something written in plain English, what exactly can you make sense of?

Here below.

Endtimer:
- Lastly, religion does provide the only consistent basis for society. That is to say, religious societies operate based on what coheres with reality whereas atheist societies depend on consensus.

Religion provides a justification for imperalism. Converting indigenous peoples around the planet has resulted in millions of destroyed lives and deaths..
The Bible and religion justifies enslavement of other humans. Southern plantation owners even quoted the Bible as a source for continual enslavement, ownership and the beatings of other human beings. Go read Exodus.

The Bible is, without any doubt, the most violent book ever written by human beings. EVER! It is a book rife with immoral treatment of other tribes and cultures. A planet full of people are drowned because it's god can't seem to forgive anyone who has wronged him. I have had many people hurt my feelings and wrong me and I've forgiven them without requiring a bloody sacrifice or the smell of burning flesh, or cutting off their penis as retribution. (Again, go read the bible.) This makes me lightyears more moral than the biblical god.
Religion consensus right now, right here in the US, is justifying treating transgender women I know as second class citizens. They cannot even use a bathroom in several states in the very country they lives in. They would not be hired in several states. They and many others who don't fit religious rules and regulations are shunned, ostracized and condemned. Many have committed suicide. Many gay and transgender people have been murdered and people justify these horrific acts because they don't align correctly with their religious beliefs. All this because religion is "providing the only consistent basis for society". Yeah, sure.

Well, you can take your religion and Bleep right off, honey pie.

read Matt 5:17-20 Matt 15:23-24 Matt 10:5-6 Luke 16:16-17

sonmvayina:


I have been following this thread..

Truth be told you are just too dull...

The Truth told and known even here is that your opinions/comments are insane
and unreasonable.and no one listens to them.

triplechoice:


Next time don't be lazy to read what has gone before.

If you had done that you wouldn't have responded the way you did.

You certainly can respond to anything here and even respond any how you like. Nobody is stopping you.
But when you quote me to take my comments out of the context in which they were made, then don't take offence or accuse me of evasion when corrected.

It's what I have done and would do again, if you repeat the same behavior.

Even the article I referenced, you also demonstrated that you didn't understand it.

The extract you took from it and posted is not very well .understood by you. Reasons were giving why those happen, but you were blind to them.

It is the same mindset which produces the good effects for anyone who practice any belief system is what also produces the bad. It is explained there.

If you can't make sense of something written in plain English, what exactly can you make sense of?

Here below.

.... says the troll who fails to explain how "good effects" from false belief systems are actually beneficial.

Judas1X:
[b]Well, we have now found this to be a lie, as we can observe on this thread that you had already gone to so-called "extremeties"

Now, you lie (as usual with atheists) for every one knows the difference between an angry retort and a personal vendetta.

Judas1X:

And I choose rationality, logic and reason anyway, anytime anywhere even if I would be murdered for my choice, over a concept as nebulous as god[

"We each walk the path, that we've chosen!" (And get whatever we find there) DMX.

Judas1X:

Denial of the truth may help you sleep well at night, but it won't change the truth that I did address them and did it superbly, without any coherent counters or rejoinders to my position

Truth will always be truth, regardless of lack of understanding, disbelief or ignorance.

W. Clement Stone

midnight378:


..and you would be wrong and you were told why you were wrong, and it went over your head...
You were given the definition and you cannot answer "what was at high temperature and density that banged ?". Nothing changed. Energy was preserved... nothing was "caused". The concept of the Big Bang Theory has changed (as all science does) since it was conceived of. A lot of Catholics opposed it at the time.
Obviously you know nothing about Physics and the history of physics . you don't know anything about whether there were other events . All you know about is 5 % of this universe. That's hardly enough to make any conclusions from. So best you take another stab. Roger Penrose, (Hawking's friend) wrote a book called "Cycles of Time". He contradicts you. You should learn to read books . The Big Bang Theory is about the EXPANSIONARY phase of the universe.... It's not about a "creation" phase. Yes theists, specifically Fundamentalist Christians , hijacked the theory to say what it does not.....
"Around 13.7 billion years ago, everything in the entire universe was condensed in an infinitesimally small singularity, a point of infinite denseness and heat. Suddenly, an explosive expansion began, ballooning our universe outwards faster than the speed of light". See that. There was a "point" that banged . It says nothing about a "point" being created..

Even granting that there was a "creation" event, (which I don't grant), ... it says nothing about your "cause" (which you just contradicted yourself about by saying there no "time" before) ... it's actually space-time, and clearly there was a "progression" (space-time) from the "tiny dot" to an expanding universe, and you know nothing about or when space-time began to "fall out" of the properties of the early universe. You also know nothing of the properties which were extant in any extra-universe state in which your god must have existed, and it's requirements for a cause.... typical theist assumption error . All you know is how things work in a very small subsection of this universe, and 95 % of this universe is unknown, (Dark Energy and Dark Matter) .... you really should go get a science education.

here's one of the spectacular failures of your proposed bullshit. Dinesh D'Souza used to debate about the Utilitarian nature of Christianity.
Until he didn't. LOL. https://www.fbi.gov/contact-us/field-off...ance-fraud

Unfortunately you are the best informed atheist in this thread; despite your teenage in-your-face attitude you are doing better than the girl and that other guy by at least adding some sense to your invective. I’ll be quoting excerpts of your last post to make my point.

[quote author=midnight378 post=116753571]
You were given the definition and you cannot answer "what was at high temperature and density that banged ?
[\quote]
Your main point here is that a singularity existed eternally before the Big Bang. My point is that there is no evidence of a singularity. Only of expansion.

I did in fact answer your question by pointing out to you that there is in fact no evidence of a singularity (that’s the answer you were looking for right). Scientists observed the cosmic microwave background and the expansion of the universe and retrospectively posited a singularity. There is no evidence of this singularity. There is, however, evidence of the beginning of space-time during an event before which there were no events known as the Big Bang. Your insistence on a hypothetical eternal singularity is mere speculation whether on not some colleague of Hawkins agrees with you (which is a repeated attempt at appealing to authority).

Let me ask you a few questions of which I expect answers: why does expansion from a point mean that everything must have been condensed at that point? Where was this point, if space-time didn’t exist? What details about this point can you furnish me with other than speculating that outward expansion must entail previous condensation at some unsupported dot.

[quote author=midnight378 post=116753571]
Even granting that there was a "creation" event, (which I don't grant), ... it says nothing about your "cause" (which you just contradicted yourself about by saying there no "time" before)
[\quote]

So it isn’t contradictory to assume that a singularity existed eternally prior to the beginning of time, but it is to assume an atemporal omnipotence?

[quote author=midnight378 post=116753571]
"Around 13.7 billion years ago, everything in the entire universe was condensed in an infinitesimally small singularity, a point of infinite denseness and heat. Suddenly, an explosive expansion began, ballooning our universe outwards faster than the speed of light"
[\quote]

Ok. Where?

That’s about everything sensible I could glean from your post. The rest is poorly written invective and rambling. I don’t mean this to be offensive, but you should calm down. You’re so angry that someone challenged your belief that you wrote hundreds of words and scarcely made any points. I predict this conversation will either civilize itself to become a proper, well reasoned argument on the Big Bang or a one-sided conversation when you find yourself looking to trade insults and nobody willing to join you.

I’ve said enough. I expect answers to my questions. I’ll let you respond.

Dtruthspeaker:


The Truth told and known even here is that your opinions/comments are insane
and unreasonable.and no one listens to them.

He has been using you to wipe the ground since..

Seems you are too blind to notice..

Shame

sonmvayina:


He has been using you to wipe the ground since..

Seems you are too blind to notice..

Shame

See! Change of Post!

Secondly, he clearly gave proof of how surplusly evil and void of any morality atheists are!

Then lastly
The Truth told and known even here is that your opinions/comments are insane
and unreasonable and no one listens to them.

midnight378:


.... says the troll who fails to explain how "good effects" from false belief systems are actually beneficial.

Sure you don't know the meaning of troll. Between the two of us who has been trolling?
You can't know that.

I repeat again, if you can't understand a report written in plain English, what exactly can you make sense of? Nothing..

I have explained before now,how religious practices can be beneficial . I don't believe in any God or gods, but well informed to know, unlike you ,that religious practices can offer salutary benefits to the human mind, and this has been demonstrated.

You are obviously one of those ignorant atheist who don't know that religious beliefs are not founded on religious text alone, hence you wonder why grown adults should believe in fairy tales.

You're starkly ignorant.

MaxInDHouse:


Peter an apostle following Jesus asked:
“Look! We have left all things and followed you; what, then, will there be for us?” Matthew 19:27
In other words what's there to gain that those without the belief in God can never have?

Christ Jesus responded:

“Truly I say to you, no one has left house or brothers or sisters or mother or father or children or fields for my sake and for the sake of the good news who will not get 100 times more now in this period of time—houses, brothers, sisters, mothers, children, and fields, with persecutions—and in the coming system of things, everlasting life. Mark 10:29-30

So Jesus is telling all of us that true believers in God will have families and satisfying careers but faithless and arrogant people will persecute them yet if they endure to the end they will be given the visa to live forever! Matthew 24:13

As a true Christian:
© Anywhere i go on earth is my home as long as true disciples of Christ lives there because they will welcome me as a family member not a total stranger! Matthew 12:46-50

© I have the assurance that no the troubles that may arise due to racism, my brothers in Christ will never abandon me because the love in Christ has destroyed the barriers of racism! John 13:34-35

Jesus later said something that's really difficult to believe: he promised that his disciples will live forever! John 3:16

Of course this may sound unbelievable but then if the promise of a global family through faith in Jesus is possible then with God all other unbelievable promises are possible! Matthew 19:26

Thanks!

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Thanks.

Div10:

Hi, thank for your comments; I'll like to have words with you; WhatsApp me 08134621705.
Thanks.

I'm sorry that's not possible here but you can meet my brothers in your neighbourhood, we are JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES!

Tamaratonye1:
At your discretion -

You awaken tomorrow to find headlines around the world: Science has definitively proven that no god exists - anywhere in the universe. All the religious leaders concur.

How would your life be different?

Would you lose your job? Would your friends abandon you, or would you abandon friends? In what ways would how you spend your time change? Would your expectations for your future change - for the next day, next week, next month, next year, next decade? Would you suddenly lose talents?

Etc.

Brushing the question aside by claiming such a proof is impossible only ducks the question. Millions of atheists around the world enjoy fulfilling lives without needing a god in it, while many millions cannot envision a life without a god in it. What is it that a god adds that cannot be lived without?

1. It would be impossible for science to prove or disprove God because the frame of reference or operations are completely different.
2. What would be your gain if a Christian converts to Atheism?
3. You seem to believe in the infallibility of science to your peril. Science is subject to the bias of the interpreter of available data.

Endtimer:
Unfortunately you are the best informed atheist in this thread; despite your teenage in-your-face attitude you are doing better than the girl and that other guy by at least adding some sense to your invective. I’ll be quoting excerpts of your last post to make my point.

All this after countless users here have tried addressing your misinformation, most of which you have yet to respond to? Tsk tsk tsk. Quelle surprise.

One need read no farther than this post to understand that you have no interest in honest discussion. Your mind is closed tighter than a threatened clam. You're here to convince atheists of your views, but are unwilling to really examine theirs.

I see you're a recent member. Have fun in your time here.

triplechoice:


Sure you don't know the meaning of troll. Between the two of us who has been trolling?
You can't know that.

I repeat again, if you can't understand a report written in plain English, what exactly can you make sense of? Nothing..

I have explained before now,how religious practices can be beneficial . I don't believe in any God or gods, but well informed to know, unlike you ,that religious practices can offer salutary benefits to the human mind, and this has been demonstrated.

You are obviously one of those ignorant atheist who don't know that religious beliefs are not founded on religious text alone, hence you wonder why grown adults should believe in fairy tales.

You're starkly ignorant.

I understand it. I reject it . I don't care what you have cherry-picked to be beneficial... There is a reason 10 % of Americans are EX-CATHOLICS .
they hate the bullshit they were taught and enslaved them as children. Utilitarianism is a slippery slope.
There has been as much evil perpetrated by religion by those who claim THEIR religious truth is THE religious truth as anything else.
Society as "theocracy" is as dangerous an anything imaginable . we've seen the results of that crap.
We know what religion is and the effects of that bullshit are all around us ..
You're fooling no one. https://www.americamagazine.org/issue/ro...i8QAvD_BwE

It is the same mindset which produces the good effects for anyone who practice any belief system is what also produces the bad. It is explained there.

taking illegal drugs produces good effects also ...

It's not the belief system . It's not religion.
https://www.nbcnews.com/id/wbna40549161
It's being a part of a close-knit community, that meets regularly.

"It's not their spirituality, belief in heaven, or even the ritual act of praying or going to a house of worship that leads the pious to happiness. Rather, the study found, it's the close friends people gain through their religions that makes a difference.

The findings suggest that forging close bonds with people over mutually shared and meaningful interests might boost quality of life for anyone, religious or not. But there's something about being part of a congregation in particular that seems to build a sense of community and lead to fulfillment for many people."

do any of your studies have a proper control group ?

FemiAjani:
Your post

As far as morality goes, you can thank evolution for that. We are social animals, and our societies benefit when people respect each other's life and property.

This is according to which research? Can you explain how morality evolved? At what point did phytoplanktons down to apes, your earliest ancestors begin to respect each other? On what basis did you ancestors determine what is right and what is wrong and how was it as a result of evolution? Your answer begs more question.



It's inborn -- we are actually programmed to be good,

If we are programmed to be good then there must be a programmer. You may want to say that the programme evolved but that would be you shooting yourself in the foot because that would mean that the programme in humans defining their behavioral patterns is capable of learning. A programme that learns is much more sophisticated than a mere set of instructions that would most certainly necessitate a highly intelligent designer. So you just refuted yourself with this statement.

Evolution is not random, what works gets passed down.
Can you explain how life moved from inanimate to animate? Millions of years after the big bang matter was inanimate. So tell me how intelligence, emotion and life started. Also tell me how conscience evolved and also tell me how people are able to have NDEs and ESPs? And since there is evidence of people being conscious even though they are in coma you have to also explain how consciousness is defined and how it evolved.

it occurs naturally as each type of life evolves to fit in its niche.

Can you define "naturally"? Are you stylishly trying to say "order" showed up from nowhere? If order does not require intelligence then it showed up by random unaided and unguided processes. This is the same as saying a software like Microsoft Office suite was written by a billion monkeys typing away on a coordinated system of a billion computers working for a billion years. Absolutely ridiculous. Order cannot be generated without intelligence.

I don't know where matter, space and time originate, but I am sure we will have a proper answer eventually. Science is working on it. Not everything has to have an immediate answer, it took us many centuries to learn as much as we know now.

There is a lot science still hasn't unravelled. Just recently the JSW telescope is returning images indicating the big bang may be entirely false. The big bang community is fighting to explain the puzzling images they are getting. So your science still has a lot to answer. And guess what "the theory of evolution" is still a theory!

Endtimer:


Your main point here is that a singularity existed eternally before the Big Bang. My point is that there is no evidence of a singularity. Only of expansion.

That's not my main point bro . (It also was not your main point).

..my point was that something(s) existed at high temperature and density PRIOR to the expansion , (which IS what the Big Bang was), thus the Big Bang says nothing about a creation event , despite what Christian apologists try to make it look like . the Big Bang DOES NOT support theism. Lots of known events need no cause . What is the "cause" of a random quantum fluctuation(s) ? What is the cause of random radioactive decay ? Order arises spontaneously in this universe. No gods are needed. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chaos_theory

TenQ:

1. It would be impossible for science to prove or disprove God because the frame of reference or operations are completely different.

That's true given specific assumptions and definitions. Given a different but equally reasonable set of the same it's not true. So you are begging the question.

TenQ:
2. What would be your gain if a Christian converts to Atheism?

Which single or collective group of Christians are you asking about? The world would probably not change much, but if some religious assholes did, it might refocus their assholishness toward more innocuous behaviors than they engage in under their religious presumptions.

TenQ:

3. You seem to believe in the infallibility of science to your peril. Science is subject to the bias of the interpreter of available data.

Fallibility is a sliding scale, with much of science tending toward one side, and most of religion tending toward the other. That science is subject to bias is a canard unless you mean to say that science is more readily prone to the effects of bias than any other human endeavor, and for which I'd like to see some evidence. Quite the contrary, science, as much as any other human pursuit, has developed habits, norms, conventions, and practices which minimize the impact of bias on its conclusions. You want to know what's at the other end of the spectrum? I'll give you three guesses and the first two don't count.

FYI, TenQ, there's no such thing as "converting to atheism" - it is not a belief. To be atheist is to live life without faith in the existence of a god or, gods.

Dtruthspeaker:


Now, you lie (as usual with atheists) for every one knows the difference between an angry retort and a personal vendetta.

...Except there was no lie on my part. It was you who threw out the word "extremeties" without bothering to define what you mean by it. Even then you should havd deciphered from the way I used the word to see the intended message. It's something called SEMANTICS. But alas, you just can't hide the symptoms of your cognitive shortfalls whenever you open your mouth. Yet you keep trying, trying to outlast me in a verbal duel. You're still playing catch-up in a Nigerian forum when your mother doesn't have a grave to lay flowers for her husband's memory.

Besides, what does this reply have to do with the fact that you fault people for using gutter language when you do the exact same? Isn't this the same monkey who keeps repeating Change of Post the same way his streetwalker mother repeats the undersized panties she steals from her co-sluts in the yard?

Hahahahahahahahaaa. DMumuSpeaker, I told you your sins will find you out. You have now become my PERSONAL ASSISTANT, assisting me to expose your intellectual malady. You have demonstrated AGAIN that your knowledge of logical fallacies and their application is a FRAUD.

"We each walk the path, that we've chosen!" (And get whatever we find there) DMX.



Truth will always be truth, regardless of lack of understanding, disbelief or ignorance.

Something about your constant subtle pleas to the validation of your nonsensical gibberish doesn't seem right. Is it that you're not satisfied to leave it to the audience to decide? Hahahahahahahaa

Not even a transformer thief has received the kind of beating you have endured by my hands on this very thread alone. You're hoping to have the last word as consolation and that's what I am denying you.

Pass your posts in this thread to all your juniors in your family to read and all your respect would decline like religious belief in Europe . You're the closest thing to what I can describe as a breathing struggling imbechile. You're mentally weak and your word combination is still JSS 2 standard. If your punchlines were semen, you will die childless.

The only thing greater than your stupidity is your ignorance of it

Your self-hate is examplary. Your willingness to collect pain wotoporiously like IPOB has been butchered and decimated like kebabs is an indication of psychosis and self-denial.

The toto when born you na low grade and you're the reflection of your parents poor taste in life. Your father's ghost is still held captive and orbiting in limbo over your inability to fight his unfinished battles but you're on a Nigerian forum measuring dick with your liberators.

Kwaaaaaaaakwaaaaaakwaaaa

Dtruthspeaker:

See! Change of Post!

For all we know, you're the biggest culprit of the above accusation. Maybe that's why you keep reeling it out like a broken record. Is this projection, perhaps?

One of the hallmarks of a fool is his inability to pick his battles wisely. Your craze to mingle with your betters has left you exposed and ridiculed

Secondly, he clearly gave proof of how surplusly evil and void of any morality atheists are!

Hahahahahahahahaa . Provide your so-called proof right now and watch yourself get disgraced again . Produce any line on this thread where I asserted that atheists are surplusly evil. Your misfortunes on this thread are just beginning. You have a lot on your hands outside your mental distortions which ascribe that I gave proof of atheists being evil. Finding a permanent rest for your mother's wandering soul by doing something meaningful with your life is chief of them.

You are but a traveller in the river of retardation. If a deity truly exists, then it must be the most wicked entity in the cosmos for bestowing you with such caliber of idiocy and mental clumsiness

Then lastly
The Truth told and known even here is that your opinions/comments are insane
and unreasonable and no one listens to them.

Oh, the divine irony . DMumuSpeaker thinks that someone's opinions are insane and unreasonable and that no one listens to them. Congratulations on your well-placed own goal . May I remind you of the thread I created a while back where testifiers showed up to share testimonies of your stupidity and quackery?* And yet you have the temerity to accuse another of the same?

*
Thread ==>

efficiencie:


As far as morality goes, you can thank evolution for that. We are social animals, and our societies benefit when people respect each other's life and property.

This is according to which research? Can you explain how morality evolved? At what point did phytoplanktons down to apes, your earliest ancestors begin to respect each other? On what basis did you ancestors determine what is right and what is wrong and how was it as a result of evolution? Your answer begs more question.



It's inborn -- we are actually programmed to be good,

If we are programmed to be good then there must be a programmer. You may want to say that the programme evolved but that would be you shooting yourself in the foot because that would mean that the programme in humans defining their behavioral patterns is capable of learning. A programme that learns is much more sophisticated than a mere set of instructions that would most certainly necessitate a highly intelligent designer. So you just refuted yourself with this statement.

Evolution is not random, what works gets passed down.
Can you explain how life moved from inanimate to animate? Millions of years after the big bang matter was inanimate. So tell me how intelligence, emotion and life started. Also tell me how conscience evolved and also tell me how people are able to have NDEs and ESPs? And since there is evidence of people being conscious even though they are in coma you have to also explain how consciousness is defined and how it evolved.

it occurs naturally as each type of life evolves to fit in its niche.

Can you define "naturally"? Are you stylishly trying to say "order" showed up from nowhere? If order does not require intelligence then it showed up by random unaided and unguided processes. This is the same as saying a software like Microsoft Office suite was written by a billion monkeys typing away on a coordinated system of a billion computers working for a billion years. Absolutely ridiculous. Order cannot be generated without intelligence.

I don't know where matter, space and time originate, but I am sure we will have a proper answer eventually. Science is working on it. Not everything has to have an immediate answer, it took us many centuries to learn as much as we know now.

There is a lot science still hasn't unravelled. Just recently the JSW telescope is returning images indicating the big bang may be entirely false. The big bang community is fighting to explain the puzzling images they are getting. So your science still has a lot to answer. And guess what "the theory of evolution" is still a theory!

Once you understand evolution, come back and comment again. I won't teach it to you -- that's not my job. My science? I am far from a scientist. But I do understand that the point of science is to question everything, including and especially itself. You explore and record what you find. You explore, you find more -- the picture changes. It changes all the time. Science is growth of knowledge, nothing is ever carved in stone.

This isn't directed at me but I'll take a shot anyway

TenQ:

1. It would be impossible for science to prove or disprove God because the frame of reference or operations are completely different.

Yeah, got it. It's something most of us including myself, realized for several decades now, thanks.

2. What would be your gain if a Christian converts to Atheism?

Speaking for myself, I don't personally try to deconvert Christians. By the way, atheism is not a belief-structure to which people convert.

3. You seem to believe in the infallibility of science to your peril. Science is subject to the bias of the interpreter of available data.

Who here has said that science is infallible? Indeed, one of its strengths is that it corrects its own errors.

efficiencie:


As far as morality goes, you can thank evolution for that. We are social animals, and our societies benefit when people respect each other's life and property.

This is according to which research? Can you explain how morality evolved? At what point did phytoplanktons down to apes, your earliest ancestors begin to respect each other? On what basis did you ancestors determine what is right and what is wrong and how was it as a result of evolution? Your answer begs more question.



It's inborn -- we are actually programmed to be good,

If we are programmed to be good then there must be a programmer. You may want to say that the programme evolved but that would be you shooting yourself in the foot because that would mean that the programme in humans defining their behavioral patterns is capable of learning. A programme that learns is much more sophisticated than a mere set of instructions that would most certainly necessitate a highly intelligent designer. So you just refuted yourself with this statement.

Evolution is not random, what works gets passed down.
Can you explain how life moved from inanimate to animate? Millions of years after the big bang matter was inanimate. So tell me how intelligence, emotion and life started. Also tell me how conscience evolved and also tell me how people are able to have NDEs and ESPs? And since there is evidence of people being conscious even though they are in coma you have to also explain how consciousness is defined and how it evolved.

it occurs naturally as each type of life evolves to fit in its niche.

Can you define "naturally"? Are you stylishly trying to say "order" showed up from nowhere? If order does not require intelligence then it showed up by random unaided and unguided processes. This is the same as saying a software like Microsoft Office suite was written by a billion monkeys typing away on a coordinated system of a billion computers working for a billion years. Absolutely ridiculous. Order cannot be generated without intelligence.

I don't know where matter, space and time originate, but I am sure we will have a proper answer eventually. Science is working on it. Not everything has to have an immediate answer, it took us many centuries to learn as much as we know now.

There is a lot science still hasn't unravelled. Just recently the JSW telescope is returning images indicating the big bang may be entirely false. The big bang community is fighting to explain the puzzling images they are getting. So your science still has a lot to answer. And guess what "the theory of evolution" is still a theory!

This is just shameless Sealioning.

What is Sealioning?
Sealioning refers to the disingenuous action by a commenter of making an ostensible effort to engage in sincere and serious civil debate, usually by asking persistent questions of the other commenter. These questions are phrased in a way that may come off as an effort to learn and engage with the subject at hand, but are really intended to erode the goodwill of the person to whom they are replying, to get them to appear impatient or to lash out, and therefore come off as unreasonable.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/words-at-play/sealioning-internet-trolling