Since the inception of Open Source projects, the web industry has experienced a great change and life has become easier for many as they now have tools and frameworks to reuse again and again to help make development easier. Recently, its intention seem to have some devastating ends. Such ends are really affecting the growth of the industry in many regions especially here in Nigeria and other countries of poor or slow economic growth.

Taking Nigeria as a case study, Open Source has really put up a slow growth or even tarnishing the actual growth of the web industry has gained so far. Some projects like the Content Management Systems has really made some designers not know the worth of developers. To this end, they use such tools without knowing what efforts came backend to bring them into functionality. These tools have eased jobs too to a good advantage but the problem it has created is actually more than the goods. The odds having taken over the goods now is not a fair deal at all.

Pricing of web works for both Designers and Clients has really been on the negative ends. Because of the poor economies of some countries, the use of these tools in getting projects done in limited time has now affected the web industry entirely. Low pricing bids by some whack guys who just peep into the industry and learn to use these tools have pushed the industry quite below standards. Now, many Contractors are not seeing the difficulty involved in designing and developing web applications. They take the low pricing by these whack guys as the norm and not care actually for the nature of jobs output for in return. Professionals in the field now suffer a great set back due to this factor and some are joining in the streak of low and careless pricing and bids so that they don't starve. But must we continue this way? Is there never going to be a remedy or do we keep it diminishing and possibly, all sink down into the same ordeal of reckless pricing and bids?

Fellow Designers and Developers who actually take this profession as serious as ever, do we move for a motion against these open source projects or do we keep it ongoing but rather find a better way to curb these bad eggs who are destroying the industry for us? Which way forward? Now, we can't over stress the obvious which is the benefit of these Open Source projects to you and I but we need to resolve this issue of pricing because it is what is making us not seem important. If actually these whack guys were to code up a standard and professionally looking websites, they will see the pains and stresses of conceptualization down to actual design and development, time factor, energy consumption, power, etc. With such an experience they will consider it not wise to put up these bills that irritate and affect the industry in a negative way.

I actually think it's time we put minds together and put to a stop or push to a good limiting point these whack guys from spoiling the industry thereby making us not enjoy our hubbies and going hungry, as well as bringing down the weight of the industry even to the economic growth of a nation. You cordial suggestions are needed and at the end, ACTIONS to back them up. Mere words spoken just lie where they are spoken or written but ACTION surpasses all. Now let's suggest the way forward so we can redeem the image of the web industry especially in our country Nigeria.


Courtesy,
OmniPotens

I think its actually favoring me. The clients who want 5-page company brochures know not to bother me so I don't have to filter web dev request from online brochure requests in my email.

For me its simple, clients who want 5-page brochure sites should install a cms and do it themselves or get one of the 10k guys. Clients who want applications that have requirement precision should meet the developers. Omni, you should be jailed for doing a 5-page site cuz no be your work. These guys are not really stepping on our field. I think these is a fine line between a joomla installer and a web developer.

Everything's fair in love and war. . .
Competition is good. It keeps you half awake. Not to mention that it encourages innovation and hopefully results in a better product.

I am in full support of open source.

@Dual Core
Do you seem to realize the pricing the place on projects? These pricing have eaten deep into people and prospects take that to be the norm and price high end projects as such. Doesn't it hurt you? Are you comfortable when someone asks for a social network kind of website and his/her asking price is 50K? Does that show you the value of your profession? You are simply called a cheapee no matter what certificate or professionalism you've acquired/attained and if you don't start working on it, it will eat deep and the entire profession crumbles. Soon web developers too might be seen as our 20naira Police men because we'll be choiceless than to accept whatever is put as a bid before us and we either accept or go hungry. Hope that is when you will see the danger I's talking about.

Please join let's see how to resolve this pricing things.

@yawa-ti-de
I am not on the side that it's a bad invention. I am only saying that it's part of the lead way to these bad price tags placed on projects. Or are you pretending not to be aware of these low pricing here and there?

Well, I will tend to disagree with you. Pricing is influenced by many factors, many of which I have listed on various other threads.

Remember, using open source is one thing and adapting it to the taste of the client (as opposed to, for instance, using some template) is another.

I almost immediately turn away cms projects because I always would deliver custom solutions and they are a pain to get right though the clients don't understand what is involved (in a way, I can't really blame them). That is my preference though. I have done no more than 3 of such sites over the last 6 years and I charged a lot for them.

Hopefully you get my point.

@yawa-ti-de
I got your point clearly. You still put your bids as a professional but how about these other spoilers that just come to tap from the industry not minding what their actions result to? After all, they are not living from the industry so if it goes into extinction, they don't care. What do you have to say with regards them?

Hmm, a combination of these things:
1) Keep keeping on praying that God directs discerning clients your way

2) Have another side job so that you are not relying on a single stream of income

3) "If you can't beat them, join them" - only this time you do one better by, for example, automating your process so that the time you spend is such that it justifies the low cost (in other words, better templates)

As I have mentioned on here before, there was (emphasis on "was" a company 5 minutes drive from me that offered websites for $99. I called the company to get a feel but they never picked up the phone, neither did they return my calls. I googled them and saw the "sites" they did and wasn't surprised. No more than a year after I saw the sign post, I no longer see the company at that location. Of course, many conclusions can be drawn from this but I choose to believe that chief among those reasons is because the prices were too low to justify the overhead costs of running the business and the fact that his "sites" were nothing to write home about.

We just have to keep hanging in man. Sooner or later, clients in Nigeria will see the light

The CMSes and Frameworks have added a lot of improvements to website development. And has made life easier for the likes of me and so many others.
But mind you, those that are not good developers will still remain so even with the frameworks and cmses.

So, it is not a threat to me at all. I make good money developing custom extensions, and tweaking plugins - patching this and that (if you can code well,
you can be an extension developer).

The downside to it is that, many Naija developers are very very lazy and look for easy way out. Someone downloads a video, sells it - someone buys it,
watches it - and gbam - he starts saying he can do any site with cms. . .fine, he can try.

- caramba

@ajaxify
Those video learners, what do we call them now; Developers or Designers or what? Now you see how they started their life and don't know anything on the profession. Next thing they do is to put up some pricing that you get mad at when you see them.

Omni, I see the pricing thing going on but personally its not happened to me in recent times cuz of how I interact with prospective clients. When they contact me tht they need something done, before I waste both our time I ask them if they have a budget for this and I would want to know. If their budget is off course, I politely reply and close the matter, honestly if they reply back asking how much I will want to do it, I don't reply. It ends there. If however they don't provife me a budget to work with, I waste/spend an hour or so producing a very detailed proposal with a very detailed cost breakdown and I politely add that the cost is non-negotiable as its best priced by me. Now its their choice to give me what I ask for or more (no less) or run away. Its not pride, its just how I am, lol.

ajaxify:

The CMSes and Frameworks have added a lot of improvements to website development. And has made life easier for the likes of me and so many others.
But mind you, those that are not good developers will still remain so even with the frameworks and cmses.

So, it is not a threat to me at all. I make good money developing custom extensions, and tweaking plugins - patching this and that (if you can code well,
you can be an extension developer).

The downside to it is that, many Naija developers are very very lazy and look for easy way out. Someone downloads a video, sells it - someone buys it,
watches it - and gbam - he starts saying he can do any site with cms. . .fine, he can try.

-  caramba

OmniPotens:

@ajaxify
Those video learners, what do we call them now; Developers or Designers or what? Now you see how they started their life and don't know anything on the profession. Next thing they do is to put up some pricing that you get mad at when you see them.

Good point so far but I would have to disagree on you guys' emphasis on "Video Learners". What I'm deducing from it is, "Learning from a video" makes you lesser than a developer or designer? I'm not sure that's really it. The point is most web designers and developers today, and i strongly emphasize that "most" (Cos i think if you pick 8 out of 10 industry leading characters) are self taught. Few years back, there wasn't really "A web design or development course" per se. . . Even now that they have it in some universities, they teach the "Applications" like Dreamweaver or so, instead of the "language" itself. Now, few schools are adopting the Opera Web Standards Curriculum and these are just few schools in the US and the UK.

So, my point exactly is, it is not how you obtain the knowledge that gives you your respect as a designer, but how you use it. Videos, pamphlets or the 20 naira handout in Ikeja can be a starting point for anybody, it's how passionate you are to know the key aspects of the development field that stands you out at the end of the day. after learning html and css from your wacky book, it is passion that makes you want to know more about Typography, User Experience, Usability, Grid System. Content Strategy, minimalism, above the fold, Cross Browser nuances and all the jargons we stuff our head with. So what they do might be wack, but how they got the knowledge isn't necessarily wack.

Santa Maria! There is nada wrong with video learning. I am just saying that these things are abused by Nigerians a lot.
Vidoes, google, w3schools and all are very nice tools to use - if they are applied properly.

OmniPotens:

@ajaxify
Those video learners, what do we call them now; Developers or Designers or what? Now you see how they started their life and don't know anything on the profession. Next thing they do is to put up some pricing that you get mad at when you see them.

Exacta, i have ran into some hitches with some of these guys in the not-so-distant past. . .and i have to agree with senor dual core on his comments as well.

Without veering too much off course, I think the main issue is with us as Nigerians and titles - the minute we learn something, we brand ourselves a "guru".  Someone like me, with over 15+ years experience, I still refer to myself as a beginner. I majored in software engineering yet I never attach the title "engineer" to my name, unlike some other (Nigerian) colleagues.

I have said it before that I have worked with a guy who had a degree in history.  The guy was bar none, better than I was and probably still is.  As someone else has eluded to, it isn't how you get the knowledge but how well you use it.  It's like saying, I have a hammer and I want to construct a house.  Just because you know how to knock a nail into some piece of wood, it doesn't qualify you as a master carpenter.

Nice points discussed in here so far. Just that I was expecting one of those 10,000 web designers to come in here and say something but they seem to scare themselves out of this.

@Omni,

it depends on your presentation. really it does. you do be surprised how much my going rate per project is. CMS or no CMS, but i usually do custom solutions because funny enough its easier for me to bend to my will, especially the design part. I just shipped a video presentation done with camstasia and adobe captivate. Guy. u sef. after seeing the whole packaging and branding, u nor go dey price anyhow. well, it depends on the clients too sha

On another side note, pricing yourself low may just scare away clients. there was this project i wanted to outsource. so i asked the potential provider how much. the price he gave me was too damn low, i don already get budget framework on mind based on asking around the industry, off course i ran,


imagine this scenario,

Man goes to London for business. he sees his business partner's website and im ask price. dem tell am 1500Pounds. The guy lands naija then decide to execute that project urgently. The guy calls hungry developer and shows him the kind of website he wants, hungry developer says he will do it plus 5 years hosting for 50k , they guy still dey stare at the email in utter shock and disbelief. Hungry developer look time, look inbox, look time look inbox.

*in Yoruba accent* ahh, omoh , e be like say i too charge that guy. The guy come send anoda email say im dey do bonanza. 50% discount,

wetin u think say the client go do?

PS: No disrespect to my yoruba brethen

@remoranger
Naija man will agree sharp sharp o. It seems you are not crowded by these whacky people I am talking about at all. If you step outta your gate sometimes, you'll even be surprised that they put a bill waiting for your pick up and once you open it, na vex and cry you go dey cry seeing how your profession is being insulted. It's too annoying and I just have to use this opportunity to voice it out.

@omni.


i feel your pain sha. i have met those kinda clients. trust me. na warri i dey hustle of all places. but na for the same warri i dey get blue chip clients that if you do a very good job for them go market u give their millionaire friends and the best part? no pricing. dem don know how the price be

alternatively broaden your scope. nor be only web design we do die put. i don dey into SEO, Google adwords and facebook consultancy, custom google apps email services. etc. so even if you go pitch and the company say dem get website. i bet you dem nor get all those services above

in addition, nor vex for 50k or 20k jobs. just get a plethora of cheap developers as your friends, e get one guy when dey advertiste for facebook say 10k for website. contact the guy. if you see 20k job. put 10k for pocket while blowing your roasted groudnut in your left hand and dancing galala.

Finally, for the main time find other hustle or job to support your self so you go fit dey pick and choose clients. cos if hunger whine you belle ehn. u go do dose jobs o. hunger nor wan hear professionalism or UI specialist. that one serious opilolo


finally, if you have to accept a crappy job to survive. Then do a crappy job. no need to waste your time on it. and make sure not to put your website link on the client website.

Aproko: Ask dual core how im dey do am. lol. i dey try recruit am but the dude nor get time, means too much project and too much money

What do u do when u wake up in d morning not knowing where ur next meal comes from? "Self-Employed" and no daddy or mummy to help you out? Some of us are lucky to turn down a 30k site, but so many of us will lose an arm to get a 20k job.
Look, am not taking sides but its da naija syndrome, JUST SURVIVE kinda attitude. Its in all spheres of the freaking economy. Ask charge and bail lawyers, or even graduates that are taxi drivers. I can go on and on, but i personally will never celebrate mediocrity. I always tell those who care to listen that i focus on international best practices and not the naija kinda person.

What do u do when u wake up in d morning not knowing where your next meal comes from? "Self-Employed" and no daddy or mummy to help you out? Some of us are lucky to turn down a 30k site, but so many of us will lose an arm to get a 20k job.

As sad as it is to admit, I have to agree with the above. It is quite unfortunate that due to the lack of leadership in our country, unemployment is so high. In some ways, I think we should even thank these guys for charging 30K. At least e better pass kidnapping and boko haramism, no b so?

remoranger:

@Omni,

it depends on your presentation. really it does. you do be surprised how much my going rate per project is. CMS or no CMS, but i usually do custom solutions because funny enough its easier for me to bend to my will, especially the design part. I just shipped a video presentation done with camstasia and adobe captivate. Guy. u sef. after seeing the whole packaging and branding, u nor go dey price anyhow. well, it depends on the clients too sha

On another side note, pricing yourself low may just scare away clients. there was this project i wanted to outsource. so i asked the potential provider how much. the price he gave me was too damn low, i don already get budget framework on mind based on asking around the industry, off course i ran,


imagine this scenario,

Man goes to London for business. he sees his business partner's website and im ask price. dem tell am 1500Pounds. The guy lands naija then decide to execute that project urgently. The guy calls hungry developer and shows him the kind of website he wants, hungry developer says he will do it plus 5 years hosting for 50k , they guy still dey stare at the email in utter shock and disbelief. Hungry developer look time, look inbox, look time look inbox.

*in Yoruba accent* ahh, omoh , e be like say i too charge that guy. The guy come send anoda email say im dey do bonanza. 50% discount,

wetin u think say the client go do?

PS: No disrespect to my yoruba brethen

hahaha the bolded happened to me ooo!!

around this time last year,  had no idea of how pricing works (and maybe i still dont ) wanted to do a shopping cart website for him @ 50k. and the guy thought it was too good to be true

Santa Maria! Caramba to all the hungry naija developers!

OmniPotens:

Nice points discussed in here so far. Just that I was expecting one of those 10,000 web designers to come in here and say something but they seem to scare themselves out of this.

Hmmm @Omni,
Where you might be right or wrong!
The problem is not the 10,000 web designers, its from the clients and the standard of the industry in Nigeria. Everybody struggles for what to eat.
For instance: If you tell your family that you want to be a web designer/developer you family will look down on you because they think is not a profession like engineering/doctor.
So if you have to start, start in creating awareness for people to know that web development is a big profession, because clients alway think that you don't learn that in school(universities) as a professional course.

yawa-ti-de:

Without veering too much off course, I think the main issue is with us as Nigerians and titles - the minute we learn something, we brand ourselves a "guru".  Someone like me, with over 15+ years experience, I still refer to myself as a beginner.  I majored in software engineering yet I never attach the title "engineer" to my name, unlike some other (Nigerian) colleagues.

I have said it before that I have worked with a guy who had a degree in history.  The guy was bar none, better than I was and probably still is.  As someone else has eluded to, it isn't how you get the knowledge but how well you use it.  It's like saying,[b] I have a hammer and I want to construct a house.  Just because you know how to knock a nail into some piece of wood, it doesn't qualify you as a master carpenter.[/b]

I made myself clear when I said, "It's not how you get the knowledge. it is how you use it".  i explained by saying, quoting from that same post,

bouzymill:

So, my point exactly is, it is not how you obtain the knowledge that gives you your respect as a designer, but how you use it. Videos, pamphlets or the 20 naira handout in Ikeja can be a starting point for anybody, it's how passionate you are to know the key aspects of the development field that stands you out at the end of the day.

i never said, just watching a video is enough for you to become a professional. All I'm saying is it's a good starting point. . . like an introduction to the field. So, in reference to your analogy of "knowing how to knock a nail", it doesn't make them master carpenters but it can start as a kick off point of things to learn.

@bouzymill
No hard feelings, all you said were understood.

@emeka.D.
Nice you experienced and have also learnt from it.

@instinctg
Nice point there!

@guru01
You have a point there!

remoranger:

@omni.


i feel your pain sha. i have met those kinda clients. trust me. na warri i dey hustle of all places. but na for the same warri i dey get blue chip clients that if you do a very good job for them go market u give their millionaire friends and the best part? no pricing. dem don know how the price be

alternatively broaden your scope. nor be only web design we do die put. i don dey into SEO, Google adwords and facebook consultancy, custom google apps email services. etc. so even if you go pitch and the company say dem get website. i bet you dem nor get all those services above

in addition, nor vex for 50k or 20k jobs. just get a plethora of cheap developers as your friends, e get one guy when dey advertiste for facebook say 10k for website. contact the guy. if you see 20k job. put 10k for pocket while blowing your roasted groudnut in your left hand and dancing galala.

Finally, for the main time find other hustle or job to support your self so you go fit dey pick and choose clients. cos if hunger whine you belle ehn. u go do dose jobs o. hunger nor wan hear professionalism or UI specialist. that one serious opilolo


finally, if you have to accept a crappy job to survive. Then do a crappy job. no need to waste your time on it. and make sure not to put your website link on the client website.

Aproko: Ask dual core how im dey do am. lol. i dey try recruit am but the dude nor get time, means too much project and too much money

BOLD <p>: That is equal to hit and run and deny oooo