being:
I'm saying just because u summed up 30 yrs effect and FX trumps real estate doesn't mean it will for a period of 3 yrs or it will be d same result in another 30 yrs! One has to look at the direction of the driving factors to make a decision!!

Past results don't guarantee the same in the future. That's basic investment disclosure, so yes in that sense you're correct.

A witty guy on this forum summed up the situation like this - no one ever lost money betting against Nigeria. I have one thing to say about the future - NATIONAL COMMODITY BOARD, that's my ace that makes it highly probable that the Nigeria Crisis not only shall endure but get worse.

Commodity Board. Go research that topic and thank me later🤫

Good Luck to Nigeria.

IbeOkehie:


https://abokifx.com/news/70274/details


(Bloomberg) -- Guaranty Trust Holding Co. reported a $468 million gain from its foreign-exchange holdings, helping Nigeria’s biggest lender by market value post a record profit.

The firm, which operates Guaranty Trust Bank, reported 357.5 billion naira ($468 million) in foreign-exchange gains for the six months to June 30, according to a regulatory filing. That’s after revaluing its overseas assets following the naira’s 40% depreciation and helping more than triple profit to 278.5 billion naira.

Nigeria allowed the naira to weaken in mid-June as part of measures to attract overseas inflows and help revive the struggling economy. The weakness in the naira — among Africa’s worst performing currencies — has helped banks with overseas assets, while manufacturers have reported losses because they have foreign-currency loans.

“Across the banking sector, most of them have a net positive foreign currency position,” said Muyiwa Oni, an analyst at Stanbic IBTC Bank Plc. “The revaluation gain is a trend we should see in the industry.”

Guaranty Trust Holding rose 3.5% in Lagos, heading of the biggest gain since July 21.

Flour Mills of Nigeria Plc, the West African nation’s biggest miller, reported its first loss in about four years this week after marking its overseas loans into naira. Six of the nation’s biggest companies announced a combined loss of $385 million after revaluing their overseas loans and letters of credit.

Good Luck to Nigerians.

Relax, It seems you don't know prices of goods and properties increases according to inflation. What is currently happening is inflation and it is also happening in US that you are. What 5 dollar can buy 4 years ago, pretty sure it can't buy it again now. It's simple economics.... US is also facing shege with there economy, we are reading it in the news. So pipe down... Canada house rent have risen above the roof, a room of 450 CAD per month is now 700 CAD per month......

And am right when I say invest in properties, preferably land....

Kindly remember am not defending Naira. Our argument was on "buying property or buying dollar"......
Buying dollar should be for short term, you want long term investment, then go for property

alphabbey1:

Uncle, It seems you don't know prices of goods and properties increases according to inflation. What is currently happening is inflation and it is also happening in US that you are. What 5 dollar can buy 4 years ago, pretty sure it can't buy it again now. It's simple economics.... US is also facing shege with there economy, we are reading it on the news. So pipe down... Canada house rent have risen above the roof, house of 450 CAD per month is now 700 CAD per month... So rest...

And am right when I say invest in properties, preferably land....

Kindly remember am not defending Naira. Our argument was on "buying property or buying dollar"......

You're wrong. Only a mugu will choose to endure the stress of real estate investment in Nigeria, ESPECIALLY if they have the option of investing in dollars.

Yes, right there in Nigeria, the dollar has gained more value than real estate during any 3 year period you can measure. I know this because it's real experience for me. Yes the US economy is stressed, I live in it, but it's nowhere near the level of economic depression in Nigeria and you know it. Comparing Nigeria to USA or Canada is like saying sleep is equal to death. Nigeria is the POVERTY CAPITAL of the WORLD. Nigeria is one of the WORST places to live on this earth!

In 2014, the black market dollar rate was around ₦200/$, today it's ₦900/$. That's over 450% increase in value of dollar. There's no way you can tell me that the average price of real estate in Nigeria has gained that much over the same period. It's just not the case.

Besides the raw increase, what of the risk? What about ease of sale? If I give you a house in VGC Lagos worth ₦400 million and ask you to sell it, how long do you think it will sit on the market? If I give you a dom account with $500K in it, how fast will you be able to sell it? I've been to VGC many times half the buildings have FOR SALE signs on them, for years, nobody buying. I challenge you to visit VGC today and tell me if my statement is true or false.

I have THREE friends living in Nigeria RIGHT NOW who have been trying for YEARS to sell beautiful buildings in Abuja, PH and Lagos, no buyers...and get this, when you calculate in DOLLARS the prices they're asking in EVERY CASE is less than the amount they paid many years ago OR the cost of construction. And they still can't get buyers.

And I notice you've kinda inserted a PREFERENCE for empty land as investment. That's legally risky in Nigeria. I literally know at least 10 people living in Nigeria or abroad who have bought lands in Nigeria....in the village, Abuja, Lagos, PH....and are now enmeshed in disputes about ownership. A friend of many years living in NY had this problem a few years ago, he bought land in PH and at some point some guy in Switzerland showed up claiming to have bought the same land. Thugs, militants and police got involved and the issue hasn't been resolved till this very moment, I called him a few minutes ago to check.

I know 2 people that their lands were recently seized by government in Abuja and Onitsha, well the one in Onitsha was actually a developed land. These are just the 2 most recent, I know several more. If you actually deal in Real Estate you MUST know people that have suffered such loss or impairment of their real property. Just simple yes or no, do you know people who have suffered such loss or impairment?

And PLEASE don't tell me "they didn't do their research or procedures well or use a good lawyer". Nonsense, I've bought and sold several properties in the USA, I know dozens of people who own homes here, I've lived in this country decades and I've NEVER known a SINGLE case where a purchase resulted in a dispute. Not a single one.

I just hate arguing with Nigerians, especially the University graduates. This is REAL LIFE, if you live in Nigeria you know this....or SHOULD know it. You guys argue for the sake of argument. When I came to the USA over 30 years ago $1 was ₦4. I know about real estate in Nigeria and what it costs, anyone resident in the USA has likely built, bought or sold houses in Nigeria. The diaspora is the mainstay of the Nigerian Real Estate Market, without us the market will die. You can't tell me jack about real estate in Nigeria abeg. Someone in my extended family sold a building in Owerri just 6 months ago...ironically they sold it to a Nigerian resident in the USA, I was the one who collected the money here in dollars. They told me what price they bought in 1995. Calculate in dollars and it was a loss. Come and see shenanigans and bribe to get this paper or that signed in Nigeria. It took 3 months to get simple papers signed by the correct official.

Go talk that Nigeria real estate boom crap to novices. Nonsense and ingredients.

Good Luck to Nigerians.

IbeOkehie:


You're wrong. Only a mugu will choose to endure the stress of real estate investment in Nigeria, ESPECIALLY if they have the option of investing in dollars.

Yes, right there in Nigeria, the dollar has gained more value than real estate during any 3 year period you can measure. I know this because it's real experience for me. Yes the US economy is stressed, I live in it, but it's nowhere near the level of economic depression in Nigeria and you know it. Comparing Nigeria to USA or Canada is like saying sleep is equal to death. Nigeria is the POVERTY CAPITAL of the WORLD. Nigeria is one of the WORST places to live on this earth!

In 2014, the black market dollar rate was around ₦200/$, today it's ₦900/$. That's over 450% increase in value of dollar. There's no way you can tell me that the average price of real estate in Nigeria has gained that much over the same period. It's just not the case.

Besides the raw increase, what of the risk? What about ease of sale? If I give you a house in VGC Lagos worth ₦400 million and ask you to sell it, how long do you think it will sit on the market? If I give you a dom account with $500K in it, how fast will you be able to sell it? I've been to VGC many times half the buildings have FOR SALE signs on them, for years, nobody buying. I challenge you to visit VGC today and tell me if my statement is true or false.

I have THREE friends living in Nigeria RIGHT NOW who have been trying for YEARS to sell beautiful buildings in Abuja, PH and Lagos, no buyers...and get this, when you calculate in DOLLARS the prices they're asking in EVERY CASE is less than the amount they paid many years ago OR the cost of construction. And they still can't get buyers.

And I notice you've kinda inserted a PREFERENCE for empty land as investment. That's legally risky in Nigeria. I literally know at least 10 people living in Nigeria or abroad who have bought lands in Nigeria....in the village, Abuja, Lagos, PH....and are now enmeshed in disputes about ownership. A friend of many years living in NY had this problem a few years ago, he bought land in PH and at some point some guy in Switzerland showed up claiming to have bought the same land. Thugs, militants and police got involved and the issue hasn't been resolved till this very moment, I called him a few minutes ago to check.

I know 2 people that their lands were recently seized by government in Abuja and Onitsha, well the one in Onitsha was actually a developed land. These are just the 2 most recent, I know several more. If you actually deal in Real Estate you MUST know people that have suffered such loss or impairment of their real property. Just simple yes or no, do you know people who have suffered such loss or impairment?

And PLEASE don't tell me "they didn't do their research or procedures well or use a good lawyer". Nonsense, I've bought and sold several properties in the USA, I know dozens of people who own homes here, I've lived in this country decades and I've NEVER known a SINGLE case where a purchase resulted in a dispute. Not a single one.

I just hate arguing with Nigerians, especially the University graduates. This is REAL LIFE, if you live in Nigeria you know this....or SHOULD know it. You guys argue for the sake of argument. When I came to the USA over 30 years ago $1 was ₦4. I know about real estate in Nigeria and what it costs, anyone resident in the USA has likely built, bought or sold houses in Nigeria. The diaspora is the mainstay of the Nigerian Real Estate Market, without us the market will die. You can't tell me jack about real estate in Nigeria abeg. Someone in my extended family sold a building in Owerri just 6 months ago...ironically they sold it to a Nigerian resident in the USA, I was the one who collected the money here in dollars. They told me what price they bought in 1995. Calculate in dollars and it was a loss. Come and see shenanigans and bribe to get this paper or that signed in Nigeria. It took 3 months to get simple papers signed by the correct official.

Go talk that Nigeria real estate boom crap to novices. Nonsense and ingredients.

Good Luck to Nigerians.

Been keenly following your posts and I have to say I come back to read more of it, so much blunt facts churn out without a care for who's emotion is hurt, nice points always 👍🏾

valarinz:


Been keenly following your posts and I have to say I come back to read more of it, so much blunt facts churn out without a care for who's emotion is hurt, nice points always 👍🏾

I asked him..

If you actually deal in Real Estate you MUST know people that have suffered such loss or impairment of their real property. Just simple yes or no, do you know people who have suffered such loss or impairment?

I'm still waiting for the answer. Seriously it's disturbing how Nigerian UNIVERSITY GRADUATES just go about arguing nonsense even when they KNOW they're wrong. 🙄 This guy is telling me that if I ask him how to invest $100K cash right now, the best answer or at least a serious option he will give me is Nigerian Real Estate? These guys must think they're conversing with an inexperienced person. Who in their right mind would invest money in Nigeria right now or anytime in the past decade? Let's even get down and dirty, Lagos, South Ogun State and Abuja are some of the best places to buy land. Is it safe for an Igbo man to buy in Lagos these days?

Lawyers in Nigeria will tell you with straight face that government doesn't own all land in Nigeria. Something that's in the Constitution!!!! Certificates of Occupancy are revoked every day, let's not even talk about when a mineral resource is discovered on the land. I used to be involved in solid minerals, go to Ebonyi and check out what happened to the village where Zinc was discovered in commercial quantities about 10 years ago.

Yes we're all small individuals in the scheme of things but when you realize that the vast majority of educated Nigerians think and reason this way, there's no surprise why Nigeria is the Poverty Capital of the World.

The brains of the Nigerian people have been destroyed by Poverty and desperation. No doubt about it and it's a doom loop that's only getting worse.

Good Luck to Nigerians!

IbeOkehie:


Dear Sir, your comment is meaningless and conveys nothing, running in circles just to confuse issues. Read the report, if you doubt it go and find and read GTB earnings report, I'm sure it's on their website because it's a legally mandated and audited public document that ANYONE is entitled to read.

GTB made a huge profit by converting naira to dollars & pound sterling and holding the forex and then converting back to naira as opportunity presented itself. Nothing else. It's basic arbitrage. That's how banks and big wigs like Peter Obi, Aliko Dangote and Adenuga have been making mad money in Nigeria for a looooong time, most people just don't know it.

CBN recently tried to curtail the practice by restricting the use of dollars as collateral to borrow naira. It's a futile effort. As long as the Federal Government of Nigeria continues to rig the forex market, this carry trade will never die.

You were simply WRONG, sorry about that.

Good Luck to you.

You’re spot on with this.
As far back in 2016 Lamido Sanusi made this revelation on currency arbitrage but Nigerians hate to read. He decried the state of forex dual window operation highlighting the economic havoc that accompanied it.
He stated it that some bigwigs make a fortune daily that even the likes of Aliko Dangote will be jealous just by exploiting the forex dual market window.

https://www.ft.com/content/c0c0876c-cd8a-11e5-831d-09f7778e7377

Unfortunately the leaders of tomorrow were busy glued to their 40inch television watching BB9ja and sharing the reel all over social media.

I started converting my salary when I was in Nigeria to USD upon understanding these concepts and it really helped me to preserve its value and also make gains. I had to split my portfolio between USD and cryptocurrency then kept just enough naira to sustain my basic expenses for the month until another inflow.

Nigeria is on economic comatose.

wwwtortoise:


You’re spot on with this.
As far back in 2016 Lamido Sanusi made this revelation on currency arbitrage but Nigerians hate to read. He decried the state of forex dual window operation highlighting the economic havoc that accompanied it.
He stated it that some bigwigs make a fortune daily that even the likes of Aliko Dangote will be jealous just by exploiting the forex dual market window.

https://www.ft.com/content/c0c0876c-cd8a-11e5-831d-09f7778e7377

Unfortunately the leaders of tomorrow were busy glued to their 40inch television watching BB9ja and sharing the reel all over social media.

I started converting my salary when I was in Nigeria to USD upon understanding these concepts and it really helped me to preserve its value and also make gains. I had to split my portfolio between USD and cryptocurrency then kept just enough naira to sustain my basic expenses for the month until another inflow.

Nigeria is on economic comatose.

True

hazinibones:
Hello Nairalanders,

I have this decision bothering me. I know it is a personal problem, but I believe everyone need some guidance at every point in life.

Straight to it, I have been considering Japa for over two years now and I think the opportunity might be here but I am having a cold feet.

I recently started working for a foreign company as a software engineer and the pay is decent when converted to Naira. Enough to live an averagely comfortable life. But my challenge now is that, I have been talking to some friends that are outside the country and they keep telling me how life is not easy there and cost of living is super expensive out there.

I currently earn $3000, which I plan to either save and travel or startup a business here in Nigeria. Please, Nairalanders with experience, is it worth japa to live an almost average life for almost the rest of your life or investing here in Nigeria and growing wealth?

The healthcare and quality education benefit is there as an advantage for japa though.

Thanks in advance for your responses!

Ask yourself first if your guys over there are doing better than you or have achieved a lot than you before you can think of japa $3000 is a lot of money 💴 you can save 2000-2500 every month here in Nigeria but your guys over there won’t save up to $1000 .

Smartguyboy:

Ask yourself first if your guys over there are doing better than you or have achieved a lot than you before you can think of japa $3000 is a lot of money 💴 you can save 2000-2500 every month here in Nigeria but your guys over there won’t save up to $1000 .

Imaginary savings in Nigeria

If Nigerians abroad can't save up money, how come they're the ones building most houses in Nigeria?

Nigerians abroad remitted $20 billion back to Nigeria last year. It was in the news. That's larger than the revenues of the Federal Government of Nigeria.

Have a good day.

IbeOkehie:


Imaginary savings in Nigeria

If Nigerians abroad can't save up money, how come they're the ones building most houses in Nigeria?

Nigerians abroad remitted $20 billion back to Nigeria last year. It was in the news. That's larger than the revenues of the Federal Government of Nigeria.

Have a good day.

The one Dey will take 20 years to build 4 bedroom bungalow? I Dey laugh you .
If you have anyone in USA ask them how much Dey save each month after expenses.

Smartguyboy:


The one Dey will take 20 years to build 4 bedroom bungalow? I Dey laugh you .
If you have anyone in USA ask them how much Dey save each month after expenses.

And the $20 billion remitted last year is garri, abi? It's amusing how Nigerians living in Nigeria constantly denigrate those abroad😄 Yet it's those abroad who are keeping your economy afloat.

Don't worry, we know Nigeria is the Poverty Capital of the World. All the gara-gara means exactly NOTHING.

Bye!

IbeOkehie:


And the $20 billion remitted last year is garri, abi? It's amusing how Nigerians living in Nigeria constantly denigrate those abroad😄 Yet it's those abroad who are keeping your economy afloat.

Don't worry, we know Nigeria is the Poverty Capital of the World. All the gara-gara means exactly NOTHING.
Bye!

There are almost 20m Nigerians abroad...Your $20bn translates to $1,000 per person avg.. Hw much is that compared to wages over there?
Going abroad is not a general solution..

being:

There are almost 20m Nigerians abroad...Your $20bn translates to $1,000 per person avg.. Hw much is that compared to wages over there?
Going abroad is not a general solution..

The revenues of the Federal Government of Nigeria...representing 200 million people....was not up to $20 billion in 2022.

Going abroad is THE solution for most Nigerians.

Only 0.5% of Nigerian adults earn over $200 per month, 97.5% of bank accounts contain less than N500K. The vast majority of Nigerians are in dire poverty. 😳 Only 7% of Lagos residents have access to mains piped water. Open defecation is normal. Electricity is a luxury. How many Nigerian adults own a car?

Poverty has fried the brains of most Nigerians living in Nigeria. It's those abroad you want to yab instead of facing your problems.

great post

alphabbey1:

Relax, It seems you don't know prices of goods and properties increases according to inflation. What is currently happening is inflation and it is also happening in US that you are. What 5 dollar can buy 4 years ago, pretty sure it can't buy it again now. It's simple economics.... US is also facing shege with there economy, we are reading it in the news. So pipe down... Canada house rent have risen above the roof, a room of 450 CAD per month is now 700 CAD per month......

And am right when I say invest in properties, preferably land....

Kindly remember am not defending Naira. Our argument was on "buying property or buying dollar"......
Buying dollar should be for short term, you want long term investment, then go for property

https://guardian.ng/property/foreign-real-estate-investors-record-huge-losses-amid-rise-in-exchange-rate/

Nigeria Guardian
Feb 19, 2024
These are not the best of times for foreign real estate investors as ongoing
currency devaluation is harming the property market by reducing rental income
and prompting huge decrease in their return on investment due to higher cost of
living.

The situation has reached a crisis point as investors are exiting the economy,
especially the real estate sector because the investment climate is no longer
attractive. The exchange rate since the end of last year 2023 till now has been quite
unstable, with a dollar being exchanged close to N1, 500 in the black market.
Exchange rate is one of the factors usually considered by the international real
estate investors in their quest to build wealth from investment properties in a
foreign country.

This has affected all the segments of the market as the prevailing inflationary
economy has rendered prices all-time high. It is expected since the prices of goods
and services went up uncontrollably in the country after the Federal Government
announced the removal of fuel subsidies. In the Lagos area, the prices of
properties, residential, commercial, and industrial have gone up by unimaginable
proportion and the same for the yearly income by way of rentals and leases.

How far with the Nigeria Real Estate Market?

Anyhow I'm still saying.....

Good Luck to Nigerians.

franchasofficia:
Residential house is a house you built for you and your family to live.


Rented apartment is a house you built for rent to tenants to be collecting annual rent (Nigerian style).


Why is building a residential house at the age of 45yrs below a waste?


Imagine you buy a plot of land for 15million, and spend like 30million to build a 4 bedroom duplex on it.

It means every year, you and your wife and kids spend 30million (I subtracted the 15million used to purchase the land) on rent. Whereas you can use 1million to rent a decent flat in a nice environment annually. While your land appreciates. Empty lands appreciate faster than built land.


Imagine if you use that 30million to buy 2 more lands.

In 10 years, they will be worth nothing less than 100million if you decide to sell them. So in 10 years you have 100million savings from the 30million and 10million spent on rent, if you do the calculation, you saved 60million in 10 years.


But if you built a residential house with the 30million, in 10 years, highest you will sell the house and land you built the duplex on is 60million.


Same applies to rentable apartment.


They are for civil servants who don't want to invest in business that can incur loss, as a retirement plan not for active young people to tie their saved capital down instead of investing it on a more profitable business that will generate more returns or using it to buy many lands with full govt papers in secure environments

Your arguments here are not looking too viable. As always, time tells the truth in due time

https://guardian.ng/property/foreign-real-estate-investors-record-huge-losses-amid-rise-in-exchange-rate/

Nigeria Guardian
Feb 19, 2024
These are not the best of times for foreign real estate investors as ongoing
currency devaluation is harming the property market by reducing rental income
and prompting huge decrease in their return on investment due to higher cost of
living.

The situation has reached a crisis point as investors are exiting the economy,
especially the real estate sector because the investment climate is no longer
attractive. The exchange rate since the end of last year 2023 till now has been quite
unstable, with a dollar being exchanged close to N1, 500 in the black market.
Exchange rate is one of the factors usually considered by the international real
estate investors in their quest to build wealth from investment properties in a
foreign country.

This has affected all the segments of the market as the prevailing inflationary
economy has rendered prices all-time high. It is expected since the prices of goods
and services went up uncontrollably in the country after the Federal Government
announced the removal of fuel subsidies. In the Lagos area, the prices of
properties, residential, commercial, and industrial have gone up by unimaginable
proportion and the same for the yearly income by way of rentals and leases.

Looks like a disastrous show right now. Anyhow I'm still saying.....

Good Luck to Nigerians.

IbeOkehie:


https://guardian.ng/property/foreign-real-estate-investors-record-huge-losses-amid-rise-in-exchange-rate/



How far with the Nigeria Real Estate Market?

Anyhow I'm still saying.....

Good Luck to Nigerians.

You like wahala