I mean, Jesus' friend, Lazarus.



There is a popular belief that when people die, the good ones go to heaven and the bad ones, hell fire. Yeah?

So let's analyse Lazarus who was dead for three days and was even smelly. When he died and before Jesus resurrected him, where was he?

He couldn't have gone to heaven (the eternal resting place people long for). Cos this would infer that Jesus pulled him down from heaven to come suffer on earth for a lifetime. That would be unfair!


Neither did he go to hellfire for he wasn't recorded a sinner.


So where did he go during his death?


Discussion please. I'll appreciate biblical backups.

I'll be reading responses.

chatinent:
■ I mean, Jesus' friend, Lazarus. There is a popular belief that when people die, the good ones go to heaven and the bike ones, hell fire. Yeah? So let's analyse Lazarus who was dead for three days and was even smelly. When he died and before Jesus resurrected him, where was he?
■ He couldn't have gone to heaven (the eternal resting place people long for). Cos this would infer that Jesus pulled him down from heaven to come suffer on earth for a lifetime. That would be unfair! Neither did he go to hellfire for he wasn't recorded a sinner. So where did he go during his death?
Discussion please. I'll appreciate biblical backups.

1. When Jesus Christ spoke to His disciples about the mansions in His Father's house, recall what Jesus Christ said to them? He said, He would come back and take then there. They couldn't go there without Him first returning to take then with Him.

In Matthew 25 vs 31 - 46, Jesus Christ clearly explained to His followers how He must first return, and Judgment take place before anyone is allowed into either of Heaven or of eternal damnation. Jesus even used used parable of the 10 virgins to further stress this to those who would listen to Him.

2. Then in John 5 vs 19 - 29, Jesus Christ further explained how all those who belong to Him would sleep in the grave until He returns and then judges them all after which they each either receive reward or damnation.

Lazarus never left his body after he died as instead he slept in his grave until when he was raised by Jesus Christ. That is what Scripture instead suggests took place.

Kobojunkie:
1. When Jesus Christ spoke to His disciples about the mansions in His Father's house, recall what Jesus Christ said to them? He said, He would come back and take then there. They couldn't go there without Him first returning to take then with Him.

In Matthew 25 vs 31 - 46, Jesus Christ clearly explained to His followers how He must first return, and Judgment take place before anyone is allowed into either of Heaven or of eternal damnation. Jesus even used used parable of the 10 virgins to further stress this to those who would listen to Him.

2. Then in John 5 vs 19 - 29, Jesus Christ further explained how all those who belong to Him would sleep in the grave until He returns and then judges them all after which they each either receive reward or damnation.

Lazarus never left his body after he died as instead he slept in his grave until when he was raised by Jesus Christ. That is what Scripture instead suggests took place.

I didn't get this. Kindly explain.

chatinent:
■ I didn't get this. Kindly explain.

That stinking corpse that was in the cave was the man Lazarus, intact, sleeping in the grave. He never left that body and never will.

Kobojunkie:
That stinking corpse that was in the cave was the man Lazarus, intact, sleeping in the grave. He never left that body and never will.

Who is he and who is the owner of the body he never left?🤔

chatinent:
■ Who is he and
■ who is the owner of the body he never left?🤔

You asked regarding Lazarus and I said Lazarus never left his body as the man Lazarus was the body that was observed decaying in that tomb.

Owners of the body? Lazarus?

The only thing that leaves a body or creature when it breathes it's last on earth is the breath of God --spirit of Life which belongs to God --- breathed into man at his creation- Genesis 2 vs 6 - 7 - and also into every living creature- Genesis 7 vs 15 - 17. Everything else remains intact as the body decays or sleeps.

He was sleeping

When u sleep, u can't go anywhere

Kobojunkie:
1. When Jesus Christ spoke to His disciples about the mansions in His Father's house, recall what Jesus Christ said to them? He said, He would come back and take then there. They couldn't go there without Him first returning to take then with Him.

In Matthew 25 vs 31 - 46, Jesus Christ clearly explained to His followers how He must first return, and Judgment take place before anyone is allowed into either of Heaven or of eternal damnation. Jesus even used used parable of the 10 virgins to further stress this to those who would listen to Him.

2. Then in John 5 vs 19 - 29, Jesus Christ further explained how all those who belong to Him would sleep in the grave until He returns and then judges them all after which they each either receive reward or damnation.

Lazarus never left his body after he died as instead he slept in his grave until when he was raised by Jesus Christ. That is what Scripture instead suggests took place.

Quite impressive
I love the way you dealt with the tricky question

Kobojunkie:
1. When Jesus Christ spoke to His disciples about the mansions in His Father's house, recall what Jesus Christ said to them? He said, He would come back and take then there. They couldn't go there without Him first returning to take then with Him.

In Matthew 25 vs 31 - 46, Jesus Christ clearly explained to His followers how He must first return, and Judgment take place before anyone is allowed into either of Heaven or of eternal damnation. Jesus even used used parable of the 10 virgins to further stress this to those who would listen to Him.

2. Then in John 5 vs 19 - 29, Jesus Christ further explained how all those who belong to Him would sleep in the grave until He returns and then judges them all after which they each either receive reward or damnation.

Lazarus never left his body after he died as instead he slept in his grave until when he was raised by Jesus Christ. That is what Scripture instead suggests took place.

Thank you Kobo jor doing justice to the topic. Op is an undercover atheist there's nothing anyone will tell me

NNTR:
Any 'With no understanding.' is actually plaguing you

1. After death what happens to the spirit, as in meaning, where does the spirit return back to and/or where does the same spirit end at?
2. After death what happens to the body, as in meaning, where does the body return back to and/or where does the same body end at?
3. After death what happens to the soul, as in meaning, where does the soul go to and/or where does the same soul end at?

When the spirit expires in your body, thats when you physically die, and your soul, (i.e. you) gets transported to a waiting lounge.

You cease operating in the land of living , when your breath expires (i.e. when the spirit returns back to its Owner)

You are dead to the land of the living, but you are alive, after crossing over, being that you'll (i.e. Soul, which is you) have to give account when you step in to the dock, on Judgment Day

_{Personal text: Jesus is not a theologian. He is God who told stories.}

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NNTR:
Hebrews 4:12
'For the word of God is living and active and full of power
[making it operative, energizing, and effective].
It is sharper than any two-edged sword,
penetrating as far as the division of the soul and spirit [the completeness of a person],
and of both joints and marrow [the deepest parts of our nature],
exposing and judging the very thoughts and intentions of the heart.'

God, brought Adam into existence, out of moulding him from earth.

Adam, the soul is created out, that which is not visible, the soul is unable to be physically touched or felt. It has a physical presence proxy by the flesh or body. The soul, meaning in essence, you, came from thing(s) not seen. The body, your flesh, is just a dirt suit made up of dust, hence why when the spirit, the ruach aka wind, aka life-force, aka breath of God expires in you, you die, you slump and drop dead, then at the end, your body or flesh returns back to earth

You are soul, you are the soul. You, the soul, was made out of things not seen with the naked eyes. Your dirt suit, the body or flesh is not you, but your soul, is you, you are soul. You, your soul will give account of yourself on Judgment Day

After death, meaning after transiting from the land of the living, you, meaning you the soul, go to a waiting area, similarly to the lounge seating areas in airport. You stay there, awaiting Judgment Day, then upon giving a verdict, you get to board a flight to an appropriate destination

You're soul. The soul is you, and vice versa, meaning what you are is soul, you are the soul.

Essentially, you are a soul, housed in a body made up from dust and made animated with a life-force, which is ruach aka spirit aka pneuma or also known as, the breath of God. So, in short, your beingness, you, are a soul

_{Personal text: Jesus is not a theologian. He is God who told stories.}

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chatinent:
I mean, Jesus' friend, Lazarus.

There is a popular belief that when people die, the good ones go to heaven and the bike ones, hell fire. Yeah?

So let's analyse Lazarus who was dead for three days and was even smelly. When he died and before Jesus resurrected him, where was he?

He couldn't have gone to heaven (the eternal resting place people long for). Cos this would infer that Jesus pulled him down from heaven to come suffer on earth for a lifetime. That would be unfair!

Neither did he go to hellfire for he wasn't recorded a sinner.

So where did he go during his death?

Discussion please. I'll appreciate biblical backups.

Psalm 49:13
'12But man, with all his [self] honor and pomp, will not endure;
He is like the beasts that perish.
13This is the fate of those who are foolishly confident,
And of those after them who approve [and are influenced by] their words. Selah.
14Like sheep they are appointed for Sheol (the nether world, the place of the dead);
Death will be their shepherd;
And the upright shall rule over them in the morning,
And their form and beauty shall [a]be for Sheol to consume,
So that they have no dwelling [on earth].
15But God will redeem my life from the power of Sheol,
For He will receive me. Selah.'

Luke 16:26
And besides all this, between us and you [people] a great chasm (i.e. ditch) has been fixed,
so that those who want to come over from here to you will not be able,
and none may cross over from there to us.’

No human being, whatsoever and whoever, yet, is in any sort of heaven, and thats with Enoch and Elijah included in the mix

Lazarus (i.e. his soul, him) was in Abraham's bosom, which has since been upgraded to be Paradise, as for, the rich man (i.e. his soul, him), was in, the opposite side of Abraham's bosom, with a great chasm separating both ends

Sheol is where all dead end up at, however we got to know that the dead get separated into either of the two compartment areas, that exists in Sheol.

_{Personal text: Jesus is not a theologian. He is God who told stories.}

illicit:
He was sleeping

When u sleep, u can't go anywhere

2 Corinthians 5:10
For we [believers will be called to account and] must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ,
so that each one may be repaid for what has been done in the body, whether good or bad
[that is, each will be held responsible for his actions, purposes, goals, motives
—the use or misuse of his time, opportunities and abilities].

When the spirit expires in the body, thats when, physically one, dies, and the soul, (i.e. you) gets transported to a waiting lounge.

You cease operating in the land of living , when your breath expires, because the spirit (i.e. ruach, which doubles up as a life-force) returns back to its Owner)

You essentially, are dead to the land of the living, but you are alive, after crossing over, being that you'll (i.e. Soul, which is you) have to give account where you step in to the dock on Judgment Day, so for now, you literally are 'sleeping' or inactive in the land of the living (i.e. simply because, you're awaiting trial, so to speak)

_{Personal text: Jesus is not a theologian. He is God who told stories.}

Kobojunkie:
1. When Jesus Christ spoke to His disciples about the mansions in His Father's house, recall what Jesus Christ said to them? He said, He would come back and take then there. They couldn't go there without Him first returning to take then with Him.

In Matthew 25 vs 31 - 46, Jesus Christ clearly explained to His followers how He must first return, and Judgment take place before anyone is allowed into either of Heaven or of eternal damnation. Jesus even used used parable of the 10 virgins to further stress this to those who would listen to Him.

2. Then in John 5 vs 19 - 29, Jesus Christ further explained how all those who belong to Him would sleep in the grave until He returns and then judges them all after which they each either receive reward or damnation.

Lazarus never left his body after he died as instead he slept in his grave until when he was raised by Jesus Christ. That is what Scripture instead suggests took place.

Kindly explain this...
It's appointed unto man to die once after that the judgement.(Heb 9:27)
I still remember quite well The Story of Lazarus at the bossom of father Abraham and the Richman in Fire of torment - these guys obviously weren't sleeping!

SporaD8:
■ Kindly explain this... It's appointed unto man to die once after that the judgement.
■ I still remember quite well The Story of Lazarus at the bossom of father Abraham and the Richman in Fire of torment.

1. I believe that was written in reference to the First Death and the Old Law of Moses - Deuteronomy 30 vz 15 - 20 - which condemns all who do not obtain eternal life to perish in the grave -- those without eternal life cease to exists after death - Genesis 3 vs 19 - 24.

2. That was clearly a parable.

Would his going to either have become a church doctrine?



Doctrines of the church is not built on what happens to man but teachings and unbiased interpretation of scriptures.

Somebody once told me the reason they don't celebrate birthday in their organization is because it was so ridiculous to me.


So Solomon's many wives should be a doctrine.

Lazarus did not give any record of anything that transpired in his death. So what?

chatinent:

There is a popular belief that when people die, the good ones go to heaven and the bike ones, hell fire. Yeah...

Because rewards are only given after Judgment.

That is why the bible said "sleep" and "wake up". When people die, they sleep and remain in " sleep mode".

To be awaken when The King, commands that you should be brought forth.

illicit:
He was sleeping

When u sleep, u can't go anywhere

Correct!

Kobojunkie:
1. I condemns all who do not obtain eternal life to perish in the grave -- those without eternal life cease to exists after death - Genesis 3 vs 19 - 24.

Correction! Only Male Adam in Genesis 3:19 had this Judgment.

Everyone else has the Judgment as given to Isaiah 26:19 and Daniel 12:2 and Revelation 20:12/13

SporaD8:

Kindly explain this...
It's appointed unto man to die once after that the judgement.(Heb 9:27)
I still remember quite well The Story of Lazarus at the bossom of father Abraham and the Richman in Fire of torment - these guys obviously weren't sleeping!

When you sleep

You dream

chatinent:


I didn't get this. Kindly explain.

He had an out of body experience, astral travel🤣

illicit:
He was sleeping

When u sleep, u can't go anywhere

Who sleeps for four days, you?!

Noone go to hell or heaven after death. The remain in their death phase (Hades).

That's why Believers will rise up at the coming of the Lord Jesus Christ

illicit:
He was sleeping

When u sleep, u can't go anywhere

Likening sleep to death sounds more reasonable.
That meant he neither went to heaven nor hellfire. So where did all the misconceptions begin that when you die vile, hellfire straight!

Kobojunkie:
1. When Jesus Christ spoke to His disciples about the mansions in His Father's house, recall what Jesus Christ said to them? He said, He would come back and take then there. They couldn't go there without Him first returning to take then with Him.

In Matthew 25 vs 31 - 46, Jesus Christ clearly explained to His followers how He must first return, and Judgment take place before anyone is allowed into either of Heaven or of eternal damnation. Jesus even used used parable of the 10 virgins to further stress this to those who would listen to Him.

2. Then in John 5 vs 19 - 29, Jesus Christ further explained how all those who belong to Him would sleep in the grave until He returns and then judges them all after which they each either receive reward or damnation.

Lazarus never left his body after he died as instead he slept in his grave until when he was raised by Jesus Christ. That is what Scripture instead suggests took place.

So you mean Abraham, Enoch, Elijah, etc them no go heaven?

NNTR:

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Psalm 49:13
'12But man, with all his [self] honor and pomp, will not endure;
He is like the beasts that perish.
13This is the fate of those who are foolishly confident,
And of those after them who approve [and are influenced by] their words. Selah.
14Like sheep they are appointed for Sheol (the nether world, the place of the dead);
Death will be their shepherd;
And the upright shall rule over them in the morning,
And their form and beauty shall [a]be for Sheol to consume,
So that they have no dwelling [on earth].
15But God will redeem my life from the power of Sheol,
For He will receive me. Selah.'

Luke 16:26
And besides all this, between us and you [people] a great chasm (i.e. ditch) has been fixed,
so that those who want to come over from here to you will not be able,
and none may cross over from there to us.’

No human being, whatsoever and whoever, yet, is in any sort of heaven, and thats with Enoch and Elijah included in the mix

Lazarus (i.e. his soul, him) was in Abraham's bosom, which has since been upgraded to be Paradise, as for, the rich man (i.e. his soul, him), was in, the opposite side of Abraham's bosom, with a great chasm separating both ends

Sheol is where all dead end up at, however we got to know that the dead get separated into either of the two compartment areas, that exists in Sheol.

_{Personal text: Jesus is not a theologian. He is God who told stories.}

2 Corinthians 5:10
For we [believers will be called to account and] must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ,
so that each one may be repaid for what has been done in the body, whether good or bad
[that is, each will be held responsible for his actions, purposes, goals, motives
—the use or misuse of his time, opportunities and abilities].

When the spirit expires in the body, thats when, physically one, dies, and the soul, (i.e. you) gets transported to a waiting lounge.

You cease operating in the land of living , when your breath expires, because the spirit (i.e. ruach, which doubles up as a life-force) returns back to its Owner)

You essentially, are dead to the land of the living, but you are alive, after crossing over, being that you'll (i.e. Soul, which is you) have to give account where you step in to the dock on Judgment Day, so for now, you literally are 'sleeping' or inactive in the land of the living (i.e. simply because, you're awaiting trial, so to speak)

_{Personal text: Jesus is not a theologian. He is God who told stories.}

You made a mistake between what happened and the parable of the rich man Jesus told. In Matthew 25 vs 31, like Kobojunkie quoted, if no one ever went to heaven like the Bible say, where is Abraham's bosom? Clearly, just used that illustration to make a point to his listeners. It wasn't like it was a real place

Also, know the difference...the parable of the rich man was an illustration. And Jesus' friend, Lazarus, wasn't.

And lastly, if you meant the dead being conscious of nothing, I think I understand that.

SporaD8:

Kindly explain this...
It's appointed unto man to die once after that the judgement.(Heb 9:27)
I still remember quite well The Story of Lazarus at the bossom of father Abraham and the Richman in Fire of torment - these guys obviously weren't sleeping!

Those were illustrations to start with.

Lazarus and Abraham blossom was also an illustration. Remember that the rich man in the story didn't hurt Lazarus either. So was he a bad man? Did anywhere suggest that? The illustration only pointed to changes in circumstances to make a point to the categories of people in Jesus' day. If you read what amounted to the illustration, like reading a few chapters before it, you'll understand.


But the Lazarus I talk about is the one who was Jesus' friend. The one who died and Jesus gangangan resurrected.

obonujoker:
Noone go to hell or heaven after death. The remain in their death phase (Hades).

That's why Believers will rise up at the coming of the Lord Jesus Christ

This sounds understandable too.

NoahHadNoArk:

Who sleeps for four days, you?!

When u sleep at night, u may wake

But when u die, it's sleep but u don't wake here

chatinent:


Likening sleep to death sounds more reasonable.
That meant he neither went to heaven or hellfire. So where did all the misconceptions begin that when you die vile, hellfire straight!

Hell fire seems far fetched

I don't see the purpose

chatinent:
■ So you mean Abraham, Enoch, Elijah, etc them no go heaven?

They are all sleeping in the grave where they were last lain. That's what is written in Scripture.

Kobojunkie:
They are all sleeping in the grave where they were last lain. That's what is written in Scripture.

So who are those in heaven now?

chatinent:
So who are those in heaven now?

Jesus Christ, the King and Judge over Heaven(Eternal Reward) and Hell(Eternal damnation), says there is no one in Heaven and Hell at this time - Matthew 25 vs 31 - 46.

Kobojunkie:
Jesus Christ, the King and Judge over Heaven(Eternal Reward) and Hell(Eternal damnation), says there is no one in Heaven and Hell at this time - Matthew 25 vs 31 - 46.

So where did the teaching all come from?

The teaching of hellfire?
The afterlife in eternal torment etc?

Don't tell me you mean they are all false.🤔