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Nairaland Forum / Nairaland / General / Car Talk / The Confessions Of A Crooked Car Dealer. (12524 Views)
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Re: The Confessions Of A Crooked Car Dealer. by Nobody: 6:15pm On Oct 10, 2011 |
@ bizbooks You may shudder at the thought of a Nigerian doing this to a fellow Nigerian but the truth is that this practice is quite rampant among some people that ship cars to Nigeria. If you look at the ads on Nairaland, you will frequently see 2000 and 2001 model cars with less than 100,000 miles especially the Camrys and Accords. Without even running a VIN report, I can confidently tell you that such mileages are almost certainly pure fabrication. It is nearly impossible to find a 10 year old tokunboh in Nigeria with less than 100,000 miles. Don't get me wrong, such cars exist in the US but they are so expensive that very few dealers can afford to ship them to Nigeria. Not true. I bought a solara V6 engine for $3500 and less than 75000 miles on it. It was 11 yrs old. |
Re: The Confessions Of A Crooked Car Dealer. by BizBooks(m): 6:28pm On Oct 10, 2011 |
davidylan: Do you mind providing the VIN? |
Re: The Confessions Of A Crooked Car Dealer. by calculusx(m): 6:41pm On Oct 10, 2011 |
@ bizbooks here is a sample VIN- 4T1BG22K5YU983899 and the Car was just shipped to Lagos last month. I will also look for the Vin number for the advert below. There is possibility of getting 11yr old car will a low mileage but not a ridiculous mileage https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-600119.0.html |
Re: The Confessions Of A Crooked Car Dealer. by Nobody: 6:43pm On Oct 10, 2011 |
BizBooks: will find it and post it here tomorrow. Most of older cars with lower mileage typically belong to older folks who kep their cars in pristine shape and never really drive them around as such. These cars are usually expensive at dealerships but dirt cheap if you buy them off the owner at a car auction. Unfortunately most dealers know this which is why virtually 99% of auctions you find in the US are dealer-only. If it were open to the public most dealerships would close down. |
Re: The Confessions Of A Crooked Car Dealer. by ami4u(m): 6:47pm On Oct 10, 2011 |
you guys have said alot on this issue, one could only wish threads on NL were this educative but after said i wish to draw your minds back on one or two other grey areas earlier mentioned here. Most of observed that 90percent of Nigeria do not really know what to look out for wen buyin a car. So what are these pointers to look for. What is a VIN, how does it work and how could it be checked. Tanks so very much as i no most out here benefit from your responses |
Re: The Confessions Of A Crooked Car Dealer. by BizBooks(m): 7:26pm On Oct 10, 2011 |
@ Calculusx and Davidylan, I understand there are exceptional cases where old cars have true low mileages. That's why in my original write-up, I said "It is nearly impossible to find a 10 year old tokunboh in Nigeria with less than 100,000 miles. Don't get me wrong, such cars exist in the US but they are so expensive that very few dealers can afford to ship them to Nigeria." @ Davidylan, In your last post, you wrote: Unfortunately most dealers know this which is why virtually 99% of auctions you find in the US are dealer-only. If it were open to the public most dealerships would close down. The primary reason auction companies restrict their auctions to registered dealers is to ensure that they get their money. If you open an auction to the public, people will come, bid and not pay in the end. What will you do to a stranger who walks into an auction, wins a car and refuses to pay? |
Re: The Confessions Of A Crooked Car Dealer. by bfire(m): 7:30pm On Oct 10, 2011 |
It is criminal to have a roll-back odometer on any car and it's a stupid act in my own opinion. Actually, there are lots of low mileage older vehicles that may not necessarily follows the normal mileage reading/accrued. There are instances also where the owner might have changed the engine to a newer better lower mileage but the rules in North America do not allow roll back. The most important thing to a buyer is to drive, inspect the car to understand how good it is. Mileage, low or high do not make a car better; all depends on the maintenance attitudes of the owner. In a nutshell, there are cars of 150,000 miles that will handle and perform better than 15,000miles car. |
Re: The Confessions Of A Crooked Car Dealer. by Emperoh(m): 7:47pm On Oct 10, 2011 |
Odometer roll back!! Go to Berger and u will bleed at what you will see. And to think that most Nigerians are still ignorant is what i can't explain. . . . what we know here is rocker science to a lot of people out but it is until u encounter someone that you will really get to know how ignorant Nigerians are! I will offer my own two cents to any new arguments. But one thing is certain, there are exceptions to every case and again, carfax and autocheck does not capture all the cases. i also noticed that most service reports are very erratic and not consistent. This can lead to buying a car that has a bad service report!!! We'll see to it! But a good thread it is bizbook. Afterall, na cheap article demanding dey cause am!! U go see motor with market value of 1m and someone is pricing 700k and asking you to call him. . . . . .and he even has the effrontery to argue that it is expensive. They will get what they want. A word is enough for the wise. |
Re: The Confessions Of A Crooked Car Dealer. by Wallie(m): 8:29pm On Oct 10, 2011 |
I'll add my two cents! Any type of car history report (Carfax, autochex or whatever else) should be the very first step in buying any car. ANY car. Yes, it is also true that carfax does not capture every single type of fraud but odometer rollbacks are the easiest to capture or detect. Here's a quote from Carfax's website It can be difficult, but not impossible to detect when a vehicle's odometer has been altered. CARFAX has compiled the following tips to help used car buyers detect odometer fraud: Where carfax fails is detecting when you're buying a lemon that is about to go bad. For example, if I see black or white smoke coming out of my exhaust under certain conditions, I might decide to sell it to a dealer who will sell or auction it. The best way to protect yourself is to pay a qualified mechanic to do a pre-purchase inspection (PPI). You will pay for it (buyer) and it will alert you to things that are wrong with the car you're about to purchase. They will check something similar to the following: OUTSIDE Straightness of body (sight down sides) Evenness of all door / panel gaps Paint condition? Evidence of repairs Operation/fit of top and side curtains Fit of top boot/tonneau Condition / originality of wheels/hubcaps/tires (date stamp / manufacturer) Presence and correctness of deco trim Smoothness, detail of lower rocker panels Smoothness, detail of wheel well arches Reflectors in place Type of bumpers/overriders/guards (correct?) Apply "bondo-meter" to known rust areas, other areas around car INSIDE PASSENGER COMPARTMENT Steering wheel / horn ring correct? Horn operational Headlight flasher ("horn ring" Operation / appearance of headlights, turnsignals, taillights Operation / appearance of windshield wipers Appearance of Seat bases Operation of drivers' seat adjustment (fore and aft) Operation of passenger seat adjustment (fore and aft) Appearance of underdash (overspray / wiring) Appearance of Thresholds (lift rubber covers) Appearance of Upholstery/seats Appearance of Floor (Lift Rubber Mats) Appearance of doors and door wells Appearance of door undersides - rust? Condition of "rolled edge" @ front of door opening Sound of door closing INSIDE LUGGAGE COMPARTMENT Presence/appearance of body plaque Appearance of hood underside (bent?) Appearance of battery floor (bottom-tire out) Appearance of battery floor (sides) Appearance of battery and holddowns/cover Presence / appearance of tool kit Presence / appearance of jack and handle Presence / appearance of spare tire (date stamp / manufacturer) Appearance of matching number at hood hinge Appearance of steering box Appearance of wiring Appearance of gas tank, sending unit, cap (date stamp) INSIDE ENGINE COMPARTMENT Appearance of matching number at deck lid Correct engine for car? Engine number (jos__________________) Kind of carbs (correct?) Kind of distributor (correct?) Condition of oil on dipstick Condition of engine wiring General condition (other) Type of muffler UNDER THE CAR Appearance of battery floor (probe) Appearance of closing panels (front) (probe) Appearance of frame struts (probe) Appearance of fender braces (probe) Appearance of closing panels (rear) (probe) Appearance of longitudinals and jackspurs (probe) Appearance / operation of suspension & shocks Appearance of rocker panels (bondo ?) Appearance/Operation of heater boxes Presence of oil leaks Correct transmission for car? DRIVING IMPRESSIONS Oil /generator lights operational at key turn? High beam light operational? Turn signal indications correct? Auto-cancel? Startup Oil Smoke? Steering free play? Engine smooth, quiet, powerful Transmission smooth, quiet, adjusted properly Excess slop in linkage? Speedster gears? (tach / speedo relationship) Tachometer smooth, accurate (Note redline, lag) Speedometer/odometer Oil Temp Guage Gas Guage Heater |
Re: The Confessions Of A Crooked Car Dealer. by logica(m): 9:02pm On Oct 10, 2011 |
You can only get a low odometer reading for an old car if you are buying directly from a retiree. Yep, very rare. |
Re: The Confessions Of A Crooked Car Dealer. by BizBooks(m): 9:08pm On Oct 10, 2011 |
Emperoh: That is one of the reasons why I started this thread. A lot of Nigerians still buy cars on first sight. That is a big mistake. Don't do it. Take the time and do all the research you can on the car. Even if the seller tells you it will be sold to another person in the next one hour, don't listen to him. He is probably bluffing. Somebody wanted to know the best way to go about getting a used car. There is no best way as it varies from person to person. But here's a start: Assuming you want to buy a tokunboh 2005 Accord: 1. Identify at least 4 or 5 that meet your requirements from different sellers. 2. Get the VIN number for all of them. If possible copy it yourself. It is 17 digits long and can be found around the driver side front door or on top of the dash board. 3. After running the VIN reports, eliminate those that have major issues eg total loss or substantial odometer rollback. 4. Have your mechanic inspect the car. Don't just send your mechanic to do the inspection. Ensure that you go with him. This is very important. If he goes alone, he may accept money from the seller and give the car a pass mark even if he knows it is junk. 5. Finally do a test drive. You can discover a lot of problems in a car through a simple test drive. If the seller refuses a test drive, walk away. |
Re: The Confessions Of A Crooked Car Dealer. by Duke007(m): 9:21pm On Oct 10, 2011 |
gud exposition.thanks a zillion |
Re: The Confessions Of A Crooked Car Dealer. by Nobody: 9:39pm On Oct 10, 2011 |
VIN! VIN!! VIN!!! Whilst not always reliable in determining a vehicle's history, it does determine the year. I have seen sellers on Nairaland, literally knock 4 years off a vehicle's age. This is most prevalent in models where there were hardly any internal or external changes throughout its production. So you end up with a 1998 car being advertised as a 2002 model. In such instances, the recorded mileage will not correlate with the posted model year. Then some unsavoury characters will then roll back the odometer, (losing about 60,000 miles) in an attempt to balance things out. The tenth digit of the VIN determines the model year. Forget the year of registration, or the crude method of using the seatbelt dates to determine the year of manufacture. VIN needs to be made COMPULSORY on all adverts, regardless of the origin of the car, import or local / domestic purchase. |
Re: The Confessions Of A Crooked Car Dealer. by Nobody: 9:47pm On Oct 10, 2011 |
I will like to say that, 12,000 miles a year is way bigger, it is 10,000 a year, and don't think that is it easy to change a mileage, and there is a bluebook, simple step: get the VIN Number of that car, get online, or call the dealership because no matter what they might have done, that car has to pass State Inspection (in the state of Texas) before it can be shipped outta country. and the fact that the car passed state inspection, the actual mileage will be on the database which the state will release to the general public, no matter where you are. so as for me, nobody can cheat me on that i bet you, talking about the year/mileage calculation, you can get a low mileage when you don't travel outta state (but not here in Texas though) like some states are small, and some people don't travel, how you will know, check how many owners for the car, and how many repairs, just easy, goto the database of the state where the car is coming from and you will get every info you need about that car, Try and see the original car Title to know the State. this is 2011 mehn, don't let those dealers use their soured tongue to fool y'all, Dumo! |
Re: The Confessions Of A Crooked Car Dealer. by deadie(m): 10:03pm On Oct 10, 2011 |
I know somebody who imports cars and he told me that probably more than 90% of imported cars have their mileage reduced. The mileage reduction is mainly done abroad, cost average about 100 USD. VIN probably wouldn't help you. I know a car that was brought in with 60,000k knocked off the odometer, the user is still happy because of the good performance. The only advice is to test drive the car. But as long as finding out if the odometer was tampered with, forget it. As I have said earlier, it is done to virtually all the cars coming into Nigeria. |
Re: The Confessions Of A Crooked Car Dealer. by Exponental(m): 10:14pm On Oct 10, 2011 |
I laff wen I read som comments asking 4 odometer reading. Maybe ds thread will teach som pple dat odometers are manipulated. A brand new car used 5yrs in som parts of 9ja (eg ilorin) is better dan same car used 3yrs in lagos. |
Re: The Confessions Of A Crooked Car Dealer. by logica(m): 10:40pm On Oct 10, 2011 |
deadie:I don't know how it works for other cars but for the cars I used in the US (BMW and Benz) you cannot knock off 60,000 miles from the odometer. An odometer reading is done every time the car goes for maintenance which I did at the dealer shops. These readings of course go into the automobile records and is publicly accessible. |
Re: The Confessions Of A Crooked Car Dealer. by Nobody: 11:03pm On Oct 10, 2011 |
logica: I bought a 1968 Mercedes last night with 115,000 miles. Just to show that Auto buying and selling requires fluidity and a knack for identifying red flags. PS: It has been stored since 1980 in a warehouse and was a cream puff. |
Re: The Confessions Of A Crooked Car Dealer. by Fhemmmy: 1:55am On Oct 11, 2011 |
alanbolo: You get my drift . . .at the end of the day, dont depend on just the VIN report . . . |
Re: The Confessions Of A Crooked Car Dealer. by Imagineers: 10:11am On Oct 11, 2011 |
i bought my Skoda Octavia brand new 2001 model in December 2001. the mileage has not gone beyond 82,000 kilometers. This was possible because the car has been parked most of the time. My office is just within a bicycle distance from house. It is very wrong to use the mileage to determine the real life of an automobile. The mileage may be one of the factors to but not the final. Despite the fact that my odometer is low the engine has actually packed up and this limits my using it. I kept it with one of my friends he was not aware the sump was leaking and there was no oil inside the engine and that was it! |
Re: The Confessions Of A Crooked Car Dealer. by calculusx(m): 10:41am On Oct 11, 2011 |
It is very wrong to use the mileage to determine the real life of an automobile. The mileage may be one of the factors to but not the final. Despite the fact that my odometer is low the engine has actually packed up and this limits my using it. I kept it with one of my friends he was not aware the sump was leaking and there was no oil inside the engine and that was it! Good Advise to the bold part up there. If some buyers see a Car with High mileage, the Car is automatically blacklisted as not good to buy for them forgetting an Old Man of 70 years might be healthier than a Teenager. |
Re: The Confessions Of A Crooked Car Dealer. by BizBooks(m): 10:48am On Oct 11, 2011 |
Imagineers: Most posters that have tried to argue the point that older cars should have high mileages ended up supporting my argument, unknowingly. As you can see, each time they point out an older car with low mileage, they invariably include an exceptional circumstance that made it so. In Imagineers' case, his 2001 Skoda has 82,000 kilometers because it was "parked most of the time". In other cases, it was because a car was driven by a retiree or an elderly lady. So, yes, it is possible for an older car to have low mileage but as you all seem to agree, it is rare. If we look at the other side of the coin, this means that a majority of older cars should have high mileage. And that's how it should be, nothing wrong with that. |
Re: The Confessions Of A Crooked Car Dealer. by MMM2(m): 2:27pm On Oct 11, 2011 |
9ja & business |
Re: The Confessions Of A Crooked Car Dealer. by msb247(m): 1:07am On Oct 12, 2011 |
MAY GOD HAVE MERCY ON THEIR SOULS! TEAR LEATHER ALL THE WAY |
Re: The Confessions Of A Crooked Car Dealer. by logica(m): 4:48am On Oct 13, 2011 |
There is another thing - highway/freeway miles versus town miles. Highway miles put less stress on the engine while the latter does. But there is no way of identifying which is which except you know the driver's life-style. |
Re: The Confessions Of A Crooked Car Dealer. by Nobody: 8:23am On Oct 13, 2011 |
. |
Re: The Confessions Of A Crooked Car Dealer. by jidewin(m): 1:50pm On Oct 13, 2011 |
@siena, My bro i agree with you 110%.My people like good things but for cheap or FREE. |
Re: The Confessions Of A Crooked Car Dealer. by Fhemmmy: 2:16pm On Oct 13, 2011 |
chaircover: You call that joke of a winter in UK freezing? Come to Canada and you will halla |
Re: The Confessions Of A Crooked Car Dealer. by Nobody: 4:01pm On Oct 13, 2011 |
. |
Re: The Confessions Of A Crooked Car Dealer. by debosky(m): 4:48pm On Oct 13, 2011 |
Fhemmmy: No be lie. . .hear am. I remember those days. . . .you'll need about 10-15 mins to defrost your car and get rid of all the snow before you can go anywhere. You'd definitely spend longer outside just getting the car ready than the time it'll take you to walk to work. |
Re: The Confessions Of A Crooked Car Dealer. by Liberte: 8:00pm On Oct 13, 2011 |
Thanks BizBooks for this very revealing topic! You may be revealing the secrets of a twisted few who can't even see beyond their noses to know that whatever goes around, surely comes back to bite you in the rear Not to disrupt the spirit of this thread but I'm actually interested in the process of transferring ownership in the case of buying Registered Naija driven cars. Say I buy one of such cars, how exactly (what document, or something like that) will I be required to execute so I never have problems of proving ownership to our black brothers who call themselves the police?! For you experienced hands in the trade, is there an agreement that needs to be signed between the old and new owners? if so, is there any readily available structure or format this should take? Thots and answers, please! |
Re: The Confessions Of A Crooked Car Dealer. by Nobody: 8:00pm On Oct 13, 2011 |
, |
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