@Yagba
Religions which are faith have failed in ascertaining a spiritual reality. Whatever conclusions they ve drawn are not verifiable among themselves but fundamental conflicts. Only the weak believe in dogma.
The only excuse left for God to exist is if its a necessity.

@Kay 17; evil? God gave us the freedom to make choices, if we choose harmful ways (evil), we carry the blame, not God. And if you imagine that God erred by giving us the freedom to do either good or evil, you are suggesting that God ought to have created us like robots. Humans have the capacity to perfects their ways for their joyful stay on earth. The choice is ours.

@Kay 17:
How does one ascertain spiritual reality? You see, that is another area where you guys got it wrong. Repeatedly, Christians talk of personal experiences which atheists called delusion. Beside that, how do you explain phenomena that physical science has failed to proffer answers. Christianity as a religion has not failed, it is humans who have failed to live the Christian ideal.

@Yagba
U rushed to an assumption that God exists without justifying it.
As to freewill, it runs contrary to the intents of an omniscient being. Also what is the use of hell and heaven if not positive reinforcement?! More robotic.

@kay 17:
Your refusal to accept the Christian proof of God's existence, which is provable by His works in creation and through personal experiences, cannot in anyway be regarded as evidence of God's non-existence. And, God's Omniscience does not deprive man the freedom to make choices. Within the laws that govern creation exist sufficient rooms for humans to exercise their free will. Infinite knowledge on the part of God does not mean He would not allow His most favoured creature, man, the option of charting his course in creation without interference. God knows all but wills that humans must, on their own, develop to full realisation of their potentials through a learning process that makes them more mature and ready to fully appreciate and enjoy the fruits of a painstaking labour, which gives more satisfaction than ready made gifts.

Yes ppl do say the universe is the handiwork of an anthromorphic intelligent designer, which is not an internal consistent thought. However, there are many Gods with different characters claimed by different cultures, and the Bible is the only material which defines the Christian God. Its up to you to use whatever tool: reason or faith to find the basis for the book and its truth claims.

As to an omniscient being, the attribute of free will is impossible to acquire, since the being is deemed to know all, its foreknowledge is constant and whatever outcome of an action is locked.

So if a man with free use of actions knows what the omniscient being knows about his future, can he change it? My answer is NO. Because if he can change, then the being's foreknowledge is unreliable and thus not omniscient.

@kay 17: when christians say God is omniscience we mean that He knows all things even before they come to be. that however does not mean that He had predetermined them. for instance God knew before you were born that you will be who you are and being a fair and just God He will not deny you of the opportunity to still live your life and to make your choices without Him unduly interfering in your affiars. God did not make us like robbots He made us to have free will so that we can choose for ourselves where we will be at the end of time. the present world is a transcent place it is like going to school to obtain a certificate to work with after graduation.

If God foresees me taking door A and i become aware of that, can i decide door B?

@evil brain
You really are a joker.

All Folaski is saying is that '' since majority (infact all ) of you atheist do not believe that GOD exist, there is heaven and there is hell, what if you are wrong? and, you have nothing to loose by believing!!!! it is simple, no need to justify the reasons for your unbelief. WHAT IF GOD REALLY EXIST? (IS THE QUESTION) ME, I KNOW HE EXIST.

The problem is: there is Christian God, who tops one religion and there are many other religions with their Gods and truth claims.

So if one is sincere, he would be a polytheist which is eventually a sin in christianity and islam.

^^^^^^ There is only one GOD!!! the others' are 'gods', so do not confuse yourself any further.

^^ Thats an empty declaration. Other religious adherents believe otherwise

ronkebp:

^^^^^^ There is only one GOD!!! the others' are 'gods', so do not confuse yourself any further.

This is a very good and true statement that many people simply do not understand.

A parallel statement would be for example:

- There is only one Supreme Being (except, often people do not pay enough attention to that word 'being' in particular).

Kay 17:

^^ Thats an empty declaration. Other religious adherents believe otherwise

Who cares what other ''religious adherents'' believe. THERE IS ONLY ONE TRUE GOD. THE I AM WHO I AM, OMINI-POTENT, OMINI-SCIENCE, OMINI-PRESENCE, JEHOVAH RAPHA, JEHOVA ROPHEKA, ELOHIM, EL-SHADDAI, ADONAI, JEHOVAH NISSI, JEHOVAH SHAMMAH, and many many more names. Let the other religion come out and tell me the names of their ''god''??

@ronkebp
We have 5 monkeys in the zoo eating bananas on  the tree.
Suddenly one monkey declares that the banana in its hand is not just a banana but God- HERE IS ONLY ONE TRUE BANANA GOD. THE I AM WHO I AM, OMINI-POTENT, OMINI-SCIENCE, OMINI-PRESENCE, JEHOVAH RAPHA, JEHOVA ROPHEKA, ELOHIM, EL-SHADDAI, ADONAI, JEHOVAH NISSI, JEHOVAH SHAMMAH, and many many more
The Four monkeys also follow suit.  They each pick a different banana and claim the same thing - The banana I am holding is the ONLY ONE TRUE BANANA GOD. THE I AM WHO I AM, OMINI-POTENT, OMINI-SCIENCE, OMINI-PRESENCE, JEHOVAH RAPHA, JEHOVA ROPHEKA, ELOHIM, EL-SHADDAI, ADONAI, JEHOVAH NISSI, JEHOVAH SHAMMAH, and many many more
which among those five bananas is  the true  banana God (TRUE BANANA GOD. THE I AM WHO I AM, OMINI-POTENT, OMINI-SCIENCE, OMINI-PRESENCE, JEHOVAH RAPHA, JEHOVA ROPHEKA, ELOHIM, EL-SHADDAI, ADONAI, JEHOVAH NISSI, JEHOVAH SHAMMAH, and many many more )?

^^^^^^^^^^^^^Your question needs no answer, beacuse you have just compared your 'god' to a banana. God, Himself gave His names, and acts His names out. I don't know the monkeys you have in your zoo, that is calling their own banana'god' , definitely, not the ''LORD OF HOST'' that i worship.

Point no 10 in "How to be an effective (evangelical) atheist": https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-298119.0.html

10. Always bring up examples like the spaghetti monster, Zeus, and Santa Claus (edit: now add 'banana god') to prove that if you must believe in one God then you have to believe in all of them, right?!

That reminds me! I plan to keep that thread updated periodically; might make a start now!

@Enigma

Its a valid point to make a distinction among transcendental beings. Zeus is thought to be imaginary, so its up to the Christian to emphatically stress on the superiority of his God

@ronke

let me make my own declaration, THERE IS NO JEHOVAH OR ALLAH OR ANY GOD!!!! So i shout louder, thus i'm right.

Kay 17:

@Enigma

Its a valid point to make a distinction among transcendental beings. Zeus is thought to be imaginary, so its up to the Christian to emphatically stress on the superiority of his God . . .

It is not our business if some want to make a distinction between 'transcendental beings' like zeus, sussicorn, invisible pink unicorn, flying elves, russell's teapot and now banana god etc etc.

We know of only one God.

Kay 17:

@Enigma

Its a valid point to make a distinction among transcendental beings. Zeus is thought to be imaginary, so its up to the Christian to emphatically stress on the superiority of his God

@ronke

let me make my own declaration, THERE IS NO JEHOVAH OR ALLAH OR ANY GOD!!!! So i shout louder, thus i'm right.

Your opinion does not mean a thing, whether you believe there is God or Not, it would not make God more powerful nor richer, it would not dethrone HIM. So if you believe ooooo, it is for your own good, you don't nko? at your peril.

i think i figured out how to debate an atheist now. simply quote this - https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-298119.0.html

@enigma

How do you KNOW there is God? At least you were not born with it.

@ronke

There is no god! You are a LIAR! No god exists!

Kay 17:

@enigma

How do you KNOW there is God? At least you were not born with it.

@ronke

There is no god! You are a LIAR! No god exists!

How do you know there is no god and that no god exists?

^^^ because so far, i ve had no direct experience of this being, neither is it a selfevident truth, and the definition provided by the believers (ie Christians) is logically incoherent and meaningless.

Fine.

So why not let those who have had direct experience etc be?

^^^ Yes, that's if they dont go around declaring the urgency of incorporeal salvation

^^^ If they approach you inappropriately, let them know it.

If they are just doing their own thing without getting you involved, let them be.

@kay 17: if God knew that you would take door A you will take door A. He did not chose for us how we will behave He only knew how we would. If however we submit our lives to Him,the He will guide us on how to make a real succes of our lives. But if we dont,there is yet anothe power that will hijack our lives and ruin them. Both have eternal consequencies. There is no vaccum in nature. You cant sit on the fence. That is why we christians are always appealing to people to turn their lives over to God.

@folaski

you still didnt answer my question. If i got to know of God's foreknowledge like door A, then i can with my free will pick door B

@Kay 17;
Fore-knowledge without interference does not place any restriction on humans' freewill. There are recompenses for every deed done by humans: good brings good; bad brings bad. Within these arrangements exist infinite potentials for good and bad. It is therefore left for us to choose which of the two we wish to enjoy infinitely. God knows we have the capacity to make right choices and so He watches and wait for us to taste the result of each choice that we make; He wants us to become mature through self-determining processes that would qualify us as the Free and Perfect creatures, with a common link to Him through His immanent spirit in creation. God's Omniscience has more than enough rooms for humans to exercise their freewill.

^^^ So i can pick door B right? Despite the fact that God saw me taking A?