It amazes me once again that people are feigning shock and surprise at the recent BBB documentary of the evils of the late Clown and Conman TB Joshua and his cult.

My own wonder is why people have eyes but can't see.
All religious cults, from the beginning of time to the modern era, follow the very same repeating patterns of manipulation,sexual abuse and unbridled evil.

All religious sects and their leaders or pastors, GOs , prophets, etc, exhibit different degrees of sociopathy and cult-like behavior patterns.

Therefore, the big question that I have always struggled with, especially now, is whether Religion, by its very primordial and irrational nature actually breeds Sociopaths, or, that the Sociopaths of society are naturally drawn to Religion, again, because of the same primordial and irrational nature of religion?
Which begets the other ?
Let's have an educated discussion.

plaetton:

Therefore, the big question that I have always struggled with, especially now, is whether Religion, by its very primordial and irrational nature actually breeds Sociopaths, or, that the Sociopaths of society are naturally drawn to Religion, again, because of the same primordial and irrational nature of religion?
Which begets the other ?
Let's have an educated discussion.

First correction, not all religions or religious sects commit these evils. Secondary, what is your definition of sociopathy and sociopathic traits? People have freewill, humans can choose to do good or bad regardless of if they were born with a personality disorder. Even majority of humans in the world who are considered normal or neurotypical are capable and sometimes carry out despicable and evil acts.
I consider people with high narcisstic traits or sociopathic narcissists a bigger problem to the world. These people are worst because they score low on self reflection and regulation, they crave and seek out perfection, control and dominance. Their ego and unstable self esteem is easily hurt even when you are joking with them. Worst part, they always project and accuse others of been the problem. They can't stay on their own nor mind their business, always instigating drama, chaos and looking for who to devalue and prey on. Refusing to bow to them brings you more hate and character assassination from them.

fredwill1357:


I consider people with high narcisstic traits or sociopathic narcissists a bigger problem to the world. These people are worst because they score low on self reflection and regulation, they crave and seek out perfection, control and dominance. Their ego and unstable self esteem is easily hurt even when you are joking with them. Worst part, they always project and accuse others of been the problem. They can't stay on their own nor mind their business, always instigating drama, chaos and looking for who to devalue and prey on. Refusing to bow to them brings you more hate and character assassination from them.

The above makes my question even more relevant.
Does Religion, by its nature, a breeding ground for narcissistic sociopaths, or, are narcissistic sociopaths naturally drawn to Religion?
What is the connection?

plaetton:

The above makes my question even more relevant.
Does Religion, by its nature, a breeding ground for narcissistic sociopaths, or, are narcissistic sociopaths naturally drawn to Religion?
What is the connection?

Sociopaths, psychopaths, narcissists e.t.c are all drawn to power, but for different reasons. Narcissists desperately wants to believe they are perfect and superior to others. This can cause self righteousness and a need for validation, praise, worship and untainted reputation.

They also want to believe that they and things connected to them are superior, this can result in sociopathic and malignant narcissists usually killing for the dominance and superiority of their tribe, religion e.t.c.
They like been revered and bowed to, so a good number of them will be drawn to positions or organizations that paint them in a good light, increases their societal reputation and makes them come off as morally superior or better. However, religion is not to be totally blamed. This people will still find other means of exerting control, hurting others to feel powerful e.t.c.

fredwill1357:
Sociopaths, psychopaths, narcissists e.t.c are all drawn to power, but for different reasons. Narcissists desperately wants to believe they are perfect and superior to others. This can cause self righteousness and a need for validation, praise, worship and untainted reputation.

They also want to believe that they and things connected to them are superior, this can result in sociopathic and malignant narcissists usually killing for the dominance and superiority of their tribe, religion e.t.c.
They like been revered and bowed to, so a good number of them will be drawn to positions or organizations that paint them in a good light, increases their societal reputation and makes them come off as morally superior or better. However, religion is not to be totally blamed. This people will still find other means of exerting control, hurting others to feel powerful e.t.c.

I agree with you completely.
Yes, narcisstic sociopaths are to be found in every profession and strata of life.
However, does Religion ( where blindfaith allegiance is a requirement) especially provide a seeding ground or nurturing and accommodating environment for closet sociopaths to hide and thrive unnoticed and unchallenged ?

plaetton:
It amazes me once again that people are feigning shock and surprise at the recent BBB documentary of the evils of the late Clown and Conman TB Joshua and his cult.

My own wonder is why people have eyes but can't see.
All religious cults, from the beginning of time to the modern era, follow the very same repeating patterns of manipulation,sexual abuse and unbridled evil.

All religious sects and their leaders or pastors, GOs , prophets, etc, exhibit different degrees of sociopathy and cult-like behavior patterns.

Therefore, the big question that I have always struggled with, especially now, is whether Religion, by its very primordial and irrational nature actually breeds Sociopaths, or, that the Sociopaths of society are naturally drawn to Religion, again, because of the same primordial and irrational nature of religion?
Which begets the other ?
Let's have an educated discussion.

Right now you atheists are showing the same primordial, irrational and sociopathic character in this play of unreasonable behavior.

Every rationale person knows that people love doing things which harm others for the pleasure and gain of it exactly how you irrationally speak against religion because you think you are anti religion whereas you are actually in a religion of anti God and Law and rationality

plaetton:

I agree with you completely.
Yes, narcisstic sociopaths are to be found in every profession and strata of life.
However, does Religion ( where blindfaith allegiance is a requirement) especially provide a seeding ground or nurturing and accommodating environment for closet sociopaths to hide and thrive unnoticed and unchallenged ?

See! If you were rational then you would see that a person who is excessively hopeful (blindfaith) is not an evil (narcissistic) person.

It is rather a hopenone atheist who is an evil person and a narcissistic sociopath like this filthy atheists

Calitoscassius:
I don't think you wanna fork my butt, infact, i know you wanna fork my ass, lick my ass and eat my dick.

More proof that atheists are dirty dogs showing their evil narcissistic selfs

Dtruthspeaker:


See! If you were rational then you would see that a person who is excessively hopeful (blindfaith) is not an evil (narcissistic) person.

It is rather a hopenone atheist who is an evil person and a narcissistic sociopath like this filthy atheists


More proof that atheists are dirty dogs showing their evil narcissistic selfs

This rabble does not meet the minimum intellectual threshold for this discussion.

plaetton:

I agree with you completely.
Yes, narcisstic sociopaths are to be found in every profession and strata of life.
However, does Religion ( where blindfaith allegiance is a requirement) especially provide a seeding ground or nurturing and accommodating environment for closet sociopaths to hide and thrive unnoticed and unchallenged ?

To be honest, I do not know. However, sociopaths and psychopaths are usually bold and daring. They aren't likely to paint or completely paint themselves as victims if they aren't, except there is something tangible to gain from that.

Narcissists on the other hand are petty and prone to envy and feelings of inadequecies. I cannot say for sure how sociopathic or malignant narcissists function. I have mostly read about them on quora, but since this people usually create hard times, I assume them to be weak. Weak people create hard times, It is their revenge or make up for the supposed cruelty, lack of attention or recognition from the world.

fredwill1357:
First correction, not all religions or religious sects commit these evils.
I consider people with high narcisstic traits or sociopathic narcissists a bigger problem to the world. These people are worst because they score low on self reflection and regulation, they crave and seek out perfection, control and dominance. Their ego and unstable self esteem is easily hurt even when you are joking with them. Worst part, they always project and accuse others of been the problem. They can't stay on their own nor mind their business, always instigating drama, chaos and looking for who to devalue and prey on. Refusing to bow to them brings you more hate and character assassination from them.

The abrahamic religions are guilty as charged. Jews especially display the above.

plaetton:


This rabble does not meet the minimum intellectual threshold for this discussion.

Obviously the minimum threshold is evil and irrationality way below the standard reasonable man's minimum level of fairnes and equallty. ANOTHER PROOF OF THE EVILNESS AND NARCISIM OF ATHEISTS.

KnownUnknown:

The abrahamic religions are guilty as charged. Jews especially display the above.

And Abraham condemned the jews, so you do not have any valid answer.

plaetton:
whether Religion, by its very primordial and irrational nature actually breeds Sociopaths, or, that the Sociopaths of society are naturally drawn to Religion, again, because of the same primordial and irrational nature of religion?
Which begets the other ?

Food for thought.

On another note, the article below says that religious experiences shrink part of the brain and if true, this must mean that religion makes you think irrationally or lose touch with rationality.

Religious Experiences Shrink Part of the Brain

A study links life-changing religious experiences, like being “born again,” with atrophy in the hippocampus

The article, “Religious factors and hippocampal atrophy in late life,” by Amy Owen and colleagues at Duke University represents an important advance in our growing understanding of the relationship between the brain and religion. The study, published March 30 in PLoS One, showed greater atrophy in the hippocampus in individuals who identify with specific religious groups as well as those with no religious affiliation. It is a surprising result, given that many prior studies have shown religion to have potentially beneficial effects on brain function, anxiety, and depression.

A number of studies have evaluated the acute effects of religious practices, such as meditation and prayer, on the human brain. A smaller number of studies have evaluated the longer term effects of religion on the brain. Such studies, like the present one, have focused on differences in brain volume or brain function in those people heavily engaged in meditation or spiritual practices compared to those who are not. And an even fewer number of studies have explored the longitudinal effects of doing meditation or spiritual practices by evaluating subjects at two different time points.

In this study, Owen et al. used MRI to measure the volume of the hippocampus, a central structure of the limbic system that is involved in emotion as well as in memory formation. They evaluated the MRIs of 268 men and women aged 58 and over, who were originally recruited for the NeuroCognitive Outcomes of Depression in the Elderly study, but who also answered several questions regarding their religious beliefs and affiliation. The study by Owen et al. is unique in that it focuses specifically on religious individuals compared to non-religious individuals. This study also broke down these individuals into those who are born again or who have had life-changing religious experiences.
Advertisement

The results showed significantly greater hippocampal atrophy in individuals reporting a life-changing religious experience. In addition, they found significantly greater hippocampal atrophy among born-again Protestants, Catholics, and those with no religious affiliation, compared with Protestants not identifying as born-again.

The authors offer the hypothesis that the greater hippocampal atrophy in selected religious groups might be related to stress. They argue that some individuals in the religious minority, or those who struggle with their beliefs, experience higher levels of stress. This causes a release of stress hormones that are known to depress the volume of the hippocampus over time. This might also explain the fact that both non-religious as well as some religious individuals have smaller hippocampal volumes.

This is an interesting hypothesis. Many studies have shown positive effects of religion and spirituality on mental health, but there are also plenty of examples of negative impacts. There is evidence that members of religious groups who are persecuted or in the minority might have markedly greater stress and anxiety as they try to navigate their own society. Other times, a person might perceive God to be punishing them and therefore have significant stress in the face of their religious struggle. Others experience religious struggle because of conflicting ideas with their religious tradition or their family. Even very positive, life-changing experiences might be difficult to incorporate into the individual’s prevailing religious belief system and this can also lead to stress and anxiety. Perceived religious transgressions can cause emotional and psychological anguish. This “religious” and “spiritual pain” can be difficult to distinguish from pure physical pain. And all of these phenomena can have potentially negative effects on the brain.

Thus, Owen and her colleagues certainly pose a plausible hypothesis. They also cite some of the limitations of their findings, such as the small sample size. More importantly, the causal relationship between brain findings and religion is difficult to clearly establish. Is it possible, for example, that those people with smaller hippocampal volumes are more likely to have specific religious attributes, drawing the causal arrow in the other direction? Further, it might be that the factors leading up to the life-changing events are important and not just the experience itself. Since brain atrophy reflects everything that happens to a person up to that point, one cannot definitively conclude that the most intense experience was in fact the thing that resulted in brain atrophy. So there are many potential factors that could lead to the reported results. (It is also somewhat problematic that stress itself did not correlate with hippocampal volumes since this was one of the potential hypotheses proposed by the authors and thus, appears to undercut the conclusions.) One might ask whether it is possible that people who are more religious suffer greater inherent stress, but that their religion actually helps to protect them somewhat. Religion is frequently cited as an important coping mechanism for dealing with stress.

This new study is intriguing and important. It makes us think more about the complexity of the relationship between religion and the brain. This field of scholarship, referred to as neurotheology, can greatly advance our understanding of religion, spirituality, and the brain. Continued studies of both the acute and chronic effects of religion on the brain will be highly valuable. For now, we can be certain that religion affects the brain--we just are not certain how.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/religious-experiences-shrink-part-of-brain/

Ilekokonit:
On another note, the article below says that religious experiences shrink part of the brain and if true, this must mean that religion makes you think irrationally or lose touch with rationality.

Religious Experiences Shrink Part of the Brain

A study links life-changing religious experiences, like being “born again,” with atrophy in the hippocampus

The article, “Religious factors and hippocampal atrophy in late life,” by Amy Owen and colleagues at Duke University represents an important advance in our growing understanding of the relationship between the brain and religion. The study, published March 30 in PLoS One, showed greater atrophy in the hippocampus in individuals who identify with specific religious groups as well as those with no religious affiliation. It is a surprising result, given that many prior studies have shown religion to have potentially beneficial effects on brain function, anxiety, and depression.

A number of studies have evaluated the acute effects of religious practices, such as meditation and prayer, on the human brain. A smaller number of studies have evaluated the longer term effects of religion on the brain. Such studies, like the present one, have focused on differences in brain volume or brain function in those people heavily engaged in meditation or spiritual practices compared to those who are not. And an even fewer number of studies have explored the longitudinal effects of doing meditation or spiritual practices by evaluating subjects at two different time points.

In this study, Owen et al. used MRI to measure the volume of the hippocampus, a central structure of the limbic system that is involved in emotion as well as in memory formation. They evaluated the MRIs of 268 men and women aged 58 and over, who were originally recruited for the NeuroCognitive Outcomes of Depression in the Elderly study, but who also answered several questions regarding their religious beliefs and affiliation. The study by Owen et al. is unique in that it focuses specifically on religious individuals compared to non-religious individuals. This study also broke down these individuals into those who are born again or who have had life-changing religious experiences.
Advertisement

The results showed significantly greater hippocampal atrophy in individuals reporting a life-changing religious experience. In addition, they found significantly greater hippocampal atrophy among born-again Protestants, Catholics, and those with no religious affiliation, compared with Protestants not identifying as born-again.

The authors offer the hypothesis that the greater hippocampal atrophy in selected religious groups might be related to stress. They argue that some individuals in the religious minority, or those who struggle with their beliefs, experience higher levels of stress. This causes a release of stress hormones that are known to depress the volume of the hippocampus over time. This might also explain the fact that both non-religious as well as some religious individuals have smaller hippocampal volumes.

This is an interesting hypothesis. Many studies have shown positive effects of religion and spirituality on mental health, but there are also plenty of examples of negative impacts. There is evidence that members of religious groups who are persecuted or in the minority might have markedly greater stress and anxiety as they try to navigate their own society. Other times, a person might perceive God to be punishing them and therefore have significant stress in the face of their religious struggle. Others experience religious struggle because of conflicting ideas with their religious tradition or their family. Even very positive, life-changing experiences might be difficult to incorporate into the individual’s prevailing religious belief system and this can also lead to stress and anxiety. Perceived religious transgressions can cause emotional and psychological anguish. This “religious” and “spiritual pain” can be difficult to distinguish from pure physical pain. And all of these phenomena can have potentially negative effects on the brain.

Thus, Owen and her colleagues certainly pose a plausible hypothesis. They also cite some of the limitations of their findings, such as the small sample size. More importantly, the causal relationship between brain findings and religion is difficult to clearly establish. Is it possible, for example, that those people with smaller hippocampal volumes are more likely to have specific religious attributes, drawing the causal arrow in the other direction? Further, it might be that the factors leading up to the life-changing events are important and not just the experience itself. Since brain atrophy reflects everything that happens to a person up to that point, one cannot definitively conclude that the most intense experience was in fact the thing that resulted in brain atrophy. So there are many potential factors that could lead to the reported results. (It is also somewhat problematic that stress itself did not correlate with hippocampal volumes since this was one of the potential hypotheses proposed by the authors and thus, appears to undercut the conclusions.) One might ask whether it is possible that people who are more religious suffer greater inherent stress, but that their religion actually helps to protect them somewhat. Religion is frequently cited as an important coping mechanism for dealing with stress.

This new study is intriguing and important. It makes us think more about the complexity of the relationship between religion and the brain. This field of scholarship, referred to as neurotheology, can greatly advance our understanding of religion, spirituality, and the brain. Continued studies of both the acute and chronic effects of religion on the brain will be highly valuable. For now, we can be certain that religion affects the brain--we just are not certain how.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/religious-experiences-shrink-part-of-brain/

Very interesting