morpheus24

Afro- Brazilian pride can go pretty much any direction in terms of its native indian, portugese or African heritage.

@^^ you may be right but Brazil is so unique/peculiar that most so called Afro-Brazilians and other non-white rarely identify with the native indians or the portuguese who they hold in utter contempt as being silly etc. I think that the Afro-Brazilians and other "minority" non white people do not openly identify with the Indians because they are basically considered as "primitive" and powerless in real terms unlike the northern Indians who fought valiantly against the colonisers/Europeans hence most AA would gladly identify with them for obvious reasons besides some biological reasons. Most people want to identify with "winners" or power  Their northern cousins will gladly identify with the native Indians/first nation etc and the one drop ruling helped to neutralise/simplify the confusion in their(AA) heads.

morpheus24

THe question you need to be asking is are my assertions incorrect. If so then why are they. If not then what is the problem. People tend to over simplify these issues for what ever political or social motives yo wnat to conjur up. To see the world in black and white is simplistic. . However simple you want it to be and no matter who is tryng to define it doesn't make that the TRUTH in absolute
terms

@^^ You are very correct but you have to understand that our condition as a people has made some of people(black) to see the world in such narrow absolute terms and you can't fault them most especially as our experiences are very diverse and varied indeed. I'll rather shrug my shoulder instead of engaging in strident combativeness . Trying to convince NLs to think deeper/ differently is a very hopeful wish indeed. Do you really have that kind of surplus energy?

80% declaring themself black.

Morpheus people in Bahia identify themselves very strongly with African culture. You can go there and hear people speaking Yoruba and Igbo. They have the legend of Princess Anastasia(not the russian anastasia), and the music shows strong angolan influences.

cheikh:

Trying to convince NLs to think deeper/ differently is a very hopeful wish indeed. Do you really have that kind of surplus energy?

Hope is a very power thing my friend.

BlackLibya

Morpheus people in Bahia identify themselves very strongly with African culture. [b]You can go there and hear people speaking Yoruba and Igbo. [/b]They have the legend of Princess Anastasia(not the russian anastasia), and the music shows strong angolan influences.

@^^ It's really amazing how myths and false stories have gained currency in Nigerian collective consciousness. They may use some west-African and Central African words in their Santarias or worship houses/places, it does not equate to them clearly understanding and speaking Yoruba or Igbo . Bro check your facts and talk to the people yourself to verify the veracity of your assertion. Maybe most of us would wish it to be so but it isn't!

BlackLibya:

I didnt state that, although Africans and their descendents are the most well known and successful blacks(in terms of population/distribution) in the world. Morpheus I understand you're trying to be PC here.

PC. Far from it

BlackLibya:


blacks around the world associate themselves with[i] us[/i]. We are united not only by our skin colors, but the oppression we have faced because of it. M.I.A herself is a Tamil girl, not as dark as some but she associates herself with many aspects of African culture and has done much to promote both our and her own culture. She is even married to a black man. Unity is a beautiful thing dont hate it bro, dont fight it, black people want ways to identify with each other.

M.I.A only associates with "Black" culture in England because she raps and sings  and is heavily exposed to it.

If she travesl back to anywhere in South Asia I doubt she's gonna be screaming " I'm black , I'm Proud" over there.

Though darker  skinned than many Africans, most South Asians do not identify as "black" within social contexts.

How many Dark skinned indians do you know that identify as "black"  because of their oprressed states?

cheikh:

BlackLibya

@^^ It's really amazing how myths and false stories have gained currency in Nigerian collective consciousness. They may use some west-African and Central African words in their Santarias or worship houses/places, it does not equate to them clearly understanding and speaking Yoruba or Igbo . Bro check your facts and talk to the people yourself to verify the veracity of your assertion. Maybe most of us would wish it to be so but it isn't!

he's probably speaking of the naija "expatriates' that call that place their new home

@^^ It's really amazing how myths and false stories have gained currency in Nigerian collective consciousness. They may use some west-African and Central African words in their Santarias or worship houses/places, it does not equate to them clearly understanding and speaking Yoruba or Igbo Grin. Bro check your facts and talk to the people yourself to verify the veracity of your assertion. Maybe most of us would wish it to be so but it isn't!

It would seem that you are right. However, the disappearance of the language happened only within the last 100 years, as before then it was the main language of Bahia, and they called it Nago.

The religion still lives on though, and Nago is the liturgical language there.

morpheus24

he's probably speaking of the naija "expatriates' that call that place their new home

@^^

morpheus24:

Nope!. how could they be? Then again How could they not take pride in their native indian or European heritage either. I wonder why thats a conflict?

Cause AA 's categorize themselves as black for mostly political and social reason doesn't really mean much in terms of biology. Black can take on different meanings in differnt places depending. if Halle berry walked down the streets of Senegal West Africa she would not be considered Black, if she walked down the streets of cape town, she would not be condsidered black either.

Therefore being black is heavily defined by social constructs that are determined by several factors.

The fact that some Brazilians take pride in mostly their African heritage more that a multiplicity of their ethnic make up is heavliy influenced by "class" constructs that create boundaries made by men

The only reason  mixed AA's identify primarily as black regardless of their multiple heritage is primarily based on the one drop rule and you know it .

To answer your first comment, maybe it's because they made that choice themselves and don't want to identify with people that owned and had their way with their African ancestors.

For your second comment, you say Halle Berry would not be considered in black in other countries. How do you know? And who cares? There may be outside factors, but at the end of the day, people have minds of their own and have the ability to choose. There are some that identify as multiracial like Tiger Woods. He calls himself "Caublasian." Do I care? No. It's his choice. And black may mean different things in different countries, but I don't care. As a black American, my history runs through the antebellum south, the black experience in the USA. It's the only history that relates to me.

You still haven't answered my question. Why do you care about what someone calls himself or herself? It has no affect on you. I thought Africans didn't give a damn about black Americans, especially with the stereotypical and wrong idea of us being lazy and not wanting to work and such some have. You should worry about the problems plaguing your country and continent instead of what someone calls himself or herself.

A.D.M.:

I thought Africans didn't give a damn about black Americans, especially with the stereotypical and wrong idea of us being lazy and not wanting to work and such some have.

Sir, whatever gave you that idea?
Tell me you do not seriously think all Africans hold this view.

Horus

In Brazil 80% of the population in the city of Salvador da Bahia is black.

@^^ Well, Salvador was the [b]main port of entry/landing [/b]for the slaves brought from Africa directly to the so called new world .

@Op
Truthfully, it's a little difficult to identify with Africa if you are born black/African in the new world of "slave" ancestry. Africa has not been a model and encouraging inspiration for such emotional attachment hence the pervasive reticence to shout it out that one is black and proud let alone identify with Africa whole heartedly anywhere on the planet. It's no wonder that the African Americans are unable to muster a viable Africa lobby group despite resources(money) unlike the Jewish lobby group in the US.A. Nigeria has been a big disappointment to the so called black cause and race worldwide. Nigeria herself is full of so called intractable problems and shameful stories emanating from Africa etc is not encouraging either. It's equally understandable that the[b] brainwashing[/b] process was very thorough indeed on the African at home and abroad. It was War at its best and we can't blame our detractors or enemies for that. That's what enemies do or should do if you are in competition for supremacy . Everyone wants to be on the "winning" or "powerful" side whatever colour or not. The human mind/psyche is wonderful indeed.

A.D.M.:

To answer your first comment, maybe it's because they made that choice themselves and don't want to identify with people that owned and had their way with their African ancestors.

Touchy touchy now. I didn't say people don't have choices now did I and for your edimafication not all multiracial people in the US are products of "slave' owners having their way with African ancestors. Thats disingenous to multi racial couples and If they did by the way. then by now the changes would not be relevant enough for that person to pass as anything other than black in your 'universe'

A.D.M.:


For your second comment, you say Halle Berry would not be considered in black in other countries. How do you know? And who cares? There may be outside factors, but at the end of the day, people have minds of their own and have the ability to choose. There are some that identify as multiracial like Tiger Woods. He calls himself "Caublasian." Do I care? No. It's his choice. And black may mean different things in different countries, but I don't care. As a black American, my history runs through the antebellum south, the black experience in the USA. It's the only history that relates to me.

if you read through my other thread you would see the evidence. As regards your so called 'choice', is that really a choice or is it an "effect"  bound by the context of the American experience. People who wish to live in boxes and percieve reality as what they want it to be are free to do so as long as they do not think this constitutes absolute truth.

A.D.M.:


You still haven't answered my question. Why do you care about what someone calls himself or herself? It has no affect on you. I thought Africans didn't give a damn about black Americans, especially with the stereotypical and wrong idea of us being lazy and not wanting to work and such some have. You should worry about the problems plaguing your country and continent instead of what someone calls himself or herself.

You are obviously  reacting to some insult your anger filled subconcious is trying to deal with. It is not a prequisite that I 'care' about a particular topic which I express on. Curiosity is a sufficient human emotion akin to caring.

Morpheus I just do not see you as a pan-africanist. Either that or you are an African supremacist, and believes in absolute purity of the African bloodline before one can call themselves African or identify with Africans.

We as African-Americans and our Latin and Brazilian-American cousins(continental sense) do not always know what place we come from in Africa. Although chances are if you are Latin or Brazilian American then you might actually know exactly where, but anyway, it is us who attach the greatest meaning to pan-africanism. We want to celebrate the entire continent of our ancestors, because unlike many Africans living in the continent, we believe we are better than the white people. We do not aspire to be like them.

Of course I cannot be talking about all of us, but for those of us who choose to learn about Africa. This is why we do it and what we believe. As a 5th grader I asked my teacher why all of the African people in our history book were so ugly. This is what we deal with, you dont.

morpheus24:

Touchy touchy now. I didn't say people don't have choices now did I and for your edimafication not all multiracial people in the US are products of "slave' owners having their way with African ancestors.  Thats disingenous to multi racial couples  and If they did by the way. then by now the changes would not be relevant enough for that person to pass as anything other than black in your 'universe'
if you read through my other thread you would see the evidence. As regards your so called 'choice', is that really a choice or is it an "effect"  bound by the context of the American experience. People who wish to live in boxes and percieve reality as what they want it to be are free to do so as long as they do not think this constitutes absolute truth.

You are obviously  reacting to some insult your anger filled subconcious is trying to deal with. It is not a prequisite that I 'care' about a particular topic which I express on. Curiosity is a sufficient human emotion akin to caring.

How was I being touchy? I was suggesting that maybe that's the reason blacks in Brazil identify as black. And for your information, I never said people who are mixed in 2011 AD are results of slavery. Don't put words in my mouth. You sit behind your computer trying to act like a big shot when you're not. My universe? I'm not God, so I don't make decisions on who identifies as what. I've read your comments and I saw no evidence other than a personal belief of what Halle Berry would be perceived as in an African country. Again, who the f--k cares? She calls herself black, so that's her choice, and there are plenty of mixed people that identify as multiracial like Tiger Woods. Did you know there were people who identified as multiracial in the 2010 U.S. census? I know because I was a Census enumerator.

How was I being angry? There are Africans who literally don't care about black Americans and think negatively of black Americans. Some are on this website. Do I care? No. I don't care what anybody thinks of me. It's not anger, it's pointing out bull$hit. If I cared, I'd be like k.o.n.y. And what's absolute truth to you, smart a$$? You're not a black American. Being curious is one thing, but making assumptions and conclusions about something you're not part of is kind of nonsensical. I'm not a Nigerian, but I do know some things about Nigeria. At the same time, I'm not gonna make assumptions or conclusions about Nigeria and Nigerian people when I'm not part of that society. By the way, you should learn how to use quotation marks properly.

A.D.M.:

How was I being touchy? I was suggesting that maybe that's the reason blacks in Brazil identify as black. And for your information, I never said people who are mixed in 2011 AD are results of slavery. Don't put words in my mouth. You sit behind your computer trying to act like a big shot when you're not. My universe? I'm not God, so I don't make decisions on who identifies as what. I've read your comments and I saw no evidence other than a personal belief of what Halle Berry would be perceived as in an African country. Again, who the f--k cares? She calls herself black, so that's her choice, and there are plenty of mixed people that identify as multiracial like Tiger Woods. Did you know there were people who identified as multiracial in the 2010 U.S. census? I know because I was a Census enumerator.

How was I being angry? There are Africans who literally don't care about black Americans and think negatively of black Americans. Some are on this website. Do I care? No. I don't care what anybody thinks of me. It's not anger, it's pointing out bull$hit. If I cared, I'd be like k.o.n.y. And what's absolute truth to you, smart a$$? You're not a black American. Being curious is one thing, but making assumptions and conclusions about something you're not part of is kind of nonsensical. I'm not a Nigerian, but I do know some things about Nigeria. At the same time, I'm not gonna make assumptions or conclusions about Nigeria and Nigerian people when I'm not part of that society. By the way, you should learn how to use quotation marks properly.

The resounding comment that is coming from you signals that you pretty much "Don't Care" about much of anything at all.

Why the heck are you responding then?

BlackLibya:

Morpheus I just do not see you as a pan-africanist. Either that or you are an African supremacist, and believes in absolute purity of the African bloodline before one can call themselves African or identify with Africans.

I don't believe there is any such thing as a pure bloodline. There are only social constructs.

let me put it in more simpler contexts. Data is Data. The evidence that is infered upon that data is subjective because it is subject to the whims of human error. Therefore the absolute validity of such information such as race or mixed ethnicity is always suspect depending on who is intepreting the data.

BlackLibya:


We as African-Americans and our Latin and Brazilian-American cousins(continental sense) do not always know what place we come from in Africa. Although chances are if you are Latin or Brazilian American then you might actually know exactly where, but anyway, it is us who attach the greatest meaning to pan-africanism.

DNA tests are extremely cheap these days, maybe you should go take one, find out where your ancestors originate from so you can pinpoint pretty much where on the continent you have heritage. its that easy

BlackLibya:


We want to celebrate the entire continent of our ancestors, because unlike many Africans living in the continent, we believe we are better than the white people. We do not aspire to be like them.

What makes you better than them may I ask or lets reverse that question what is it that makes white people "worse off" than AA

BlackLibya:


Of course I cannot be talking about all of us, but for those of us who choose to learn about Africa. This is why we do it and what we believe. As a 5th grader I asked my teacher why all of the African people in our history book were so ugly. This is what we deal with, you dont.

i once asked an AA to name 5 African empires he was aware of, he looked at me in bewilderment. I asked him about Greek mythology and he could name as many gods  and conquests of the greek as they come yet he proudly advocates the use of the term AFRICAN AMERICAN in allegiance to his heritage. isn't there something wroing with that picture.

PS AA history did not start on slave ships and it is insulting to both your intellect and your ancestors to continue to perpertuate that concept.

morpheus24

PS AA history did not start on slave ships and it is insulting to both your intellect and your ancestors to continue to perpertuate that concept.

@ bolded ^^ Gbam!!!! . I have always wondered about such shallow and foolish sense of history. It is almost like someone attracting opprobrium to oneself. by promoting such "half baked" incomplete [/b]and [b]false history - with all due "respect" to promoters/writers of such falsehood.

morpheus24

i once asked an AA to name 5 African empires he was aware of, he looked at me in bewilderment. I asked him about Greek mythology and he could name as many gods and conquests of the greek as they come [/b]yet he proudly advocates the use of the term AFRICAN AMERICAN in allegiance to his heritage. isn't there something wroing with that picture.

@[b]morpheus24, ^^ bolded - That's very good "education" by the "enemy" at its most insidious [/b]and [b]best. The conquest and accompanying propaganda was thorough indeed . The victim rarely can see beyond "one's nose"/ "imprisoned" world view, as planted or promoted by the so called "enemy" without and within.

DNA tests are extremely cheap these days, maybe you should go take one, find out where your ancestors originate from so you can pinpoint pretty much where on the continent you have heritage. its that easy

The DNA test will not tell me where my family comes from, it can only tell me what general area I my parents ancestors may come from.

After your great-great-great grandparent the test is irrelevant.

BlackLibya:

The DNA test will not tell me where my family comes from, it can only tell me what general area I my parents ancestors may come from.

After your great-great-great grandparent the test is irrelevant.

The DNA will pinpoint using Y-DNA markers that are unchanged from male to male lineage, what Ethnic group you originate from in the continent. Thats pretty close enough for you to say what part of Africa your "male" ancestor originates from ergo your lineage.

in other words you can only have one great great great grand father

Unless you are scared that your Y-DNA marker is from europe?

in other words you can only have one great great great grand father

Unless you are scared that your Y-DNA marker is from europe?

On my father's side? It wouldnt be. On my mother's side, it should be.

But since AA's tend to trace their lineage matrilineally, it doesnt matter.

morpheus24:

The resounding comment that is coming from you signals that you pretty much "Don't Care" about much of anything at all.

Why the heck are you responding then?

I responded because I can. But I have to give you props for knowing the ignorance some African descendants have about African history. I can't tell you how many times I've come across folks who didn't know any African empires without mentioning Egypt or thought Africa was one giant nation or literally thought Afro-American history began with slavery. It's really sad. Just so you know, Songhai, Ghana, Mali, Oyo, and Ouaddai are five African empires I know of.

By the way, if I was being hard on you or offended you, I apologize.

BlackLibya:

On my father's side? It wouldnt be. On my mother's side, it should be.

But since AA's tend to trace their lineage matrilineally, it doesnt matter.

Your mother's father cannot pass that marker to you because she does not carry it from him. Only your father can transfer that marker.

even if you trace your lineage from your mother's side it does not negate the unchangeable tie to your father's blood line.

DNA cannot lie!

Your mother's father cannot pass that marker to you because she does not carry it from him. Only your father can transfer that marker.

even if you trace your lineage from your mother's side it does not negate the unchangeable tie to your father's blood line.

DNA cannot lie!

so are u saying i should live my life as a white person?

BlackLibya:

so are u saying i should live my life as a white person?

If your MALE Ydna ancestor is european derived then you are tied to that lineage biologically.

You can make up what ever you wish is relevant for you to "fit in". People cross racial lines all the time because there are no true boundaries.

Blacks being the majority in Brazil means nothing if the Black leadership there ends up  conniving with western powers to attack and plunder Africa the same way african americans do.
Condolezza Rice 's first trip as secretary of state was a trip to Paris. Not to even mention  all the white butts suckers in the Black Caucus and the Obama White House.

panafrican

Blacks being the majority in Brazil means nothing if the Black leadership there ends up conniving with western powers to attack and plunder Africa the same way african americans do.

@^^ yeah, they are the majority but very much invisible - economically [/b]and [b]politically. There's no such thing as black leadership in Brazil or anywhere in South America except in Guyana and a little bit in Venezuela since Chavez. The position of Blacks in south America is extremely terrible and vacuous indeed . Football and the entertainment industry are the only open avenues available. Majority of the people are uneducated and miseducated due to the peculiar "latin" history of Brazil and the rest of South America since slavery days till this day. Ignorance of Africa etc is not peculiar to AA but expected in the whole of the so called "New World". That's what conquest, capture and defeat by your "enemies" or "detractors" are about hence the miseducation and deliberate pervasive ignorance in North and South America. It's no different in Africa as well .

Blacks being the majority in Brazil, if they unite they can soon have a Black President.

Horus

Blacks being the majority [/b]in Brazil, if they [b]unite [/b]they can soon have a Black President.

@^^ You must have some consciousness of "self"(black) and the awareness your place in history making as to be able to "unite" for some "political" enterprise/Black President. Have we in Nigeria or the rest of Africa been able to [b]unite let alone make any viable/visible impact as so called "Blacks" politically or otherwise?

cheikh:

Horus

@^^ You must have some consciousness of "self"(black) and the awareness your place in history making as to be able to "unite" for some "political" enterprise/Black President. Have we in Nigeria or the rest of Africa been able to unite let alone make any viable/visible impact as so called "Blacks" politically or otherwise?

And your point is?. So because there was a faillure to unite in the past does this mean that there will be a faillure to unite in the future?. With your skeptic and pessimistic thinking your are mentaly closing all doors in your mind for unity. A skeptic is stuck in a paradigm and closes all other possibilities. But this creation is of all possibilities. As one understands the paradigm shift and scepticism is removed.

Blacks being the majority in Brazil, if they unite they can soon have a Black President.

Look at their lady president, doesnt she look black to you?