BlackLibya:

All of it could potentially be traditional Igbo clothing except for the men in the Western business suits. In all honesty it appears that there was a certain diffusion of clothing styles amongst all people in West Africa. At least when one considers what we have posted in this thread so far. The clothing in the picture reminds me of the clothing many nomadic/savannah peoples wore. Obviously the longer pieces appear to be inspired by the Mandé peoples. In general the people with greater status will wear more elaborate clothes and the people with lesser status will wear more common clothes or sometimes nothing.

Different groups created their own styles at different times. Igbo people have/had little interaction with Mande people, so their clothing aren't necessarily related because of similarities.

[center][/center]

BlackLibya:
What is most obvious from the pictures you've shown is that none of the popular clothing Igbo people wear today is what they wore traditionally.

I know women mostly don't, but men do.

BlackLibya:

How could you not know about one of the largest empires in West Africa when you are not even so far away?

Maybe this is how you all were colonized. People cannot stand together when they dont even know that other people exist around them. How can you fight the colonization when you dont know what it is?

Igboland was the last group in West Africa to be subjugated if you didn't know. And the British would often comment and say that the Igbo were the most rebellious.

Even Igbo women had the warrior spirit. I know you heard of the Aba Women's Riot, that threatened British colonialism in Nigeria.

Why would we know about that your empire that did not impact the daily lives of the various Igbo clans that inhabited the thick forest of Eastern Nigeria? The Igbos had their our own world where were kings and queens in our own right.

Is this a joke? Surely the Yorubas were enslaving the igbos and selling them off to america.

there are too many erroneous statements on this thread for me to bother correcting, but i'll make an exception here.


ijaws, igbos, calabars and other coastal people were enslaving igbos and selling them to america.

And if you listen to the poster above then you will embarrass yourself in front of the knowledgeable.

^no need to act s.tupid.

are you saying yorubas sold igbos into slavery?

tpia@:

^no need to act s.tupid.

are you saying yorubas sold igbos into slavery?

tpia@, if you're not sure about something, then ask.

^^ok, i'm asking.

post evidence to back up your claims.

There were no "Ijaws" and "Calabars" enslaving Igbo people, and the reverse case as well.

^^so who sold igbos to the americas?

yorubas?

tpia@:

^^so who sold igbos to the americas?

yorubas?

It's not difficult. Igbo people sold Igbo people.

^^igbos sold igbos to the ijaws and calabars, who in turn sold them to the whites.

Is trading slaves from others the same as enslaving?

some of the captives were enslaved by the traders and in any case what's the difference?

was jaja of opobo not a slave originally. He wasnt sold to europeans but instead later became a chief.


olaudah equiano was also enslaved by the coastal people before being sold abroad, if the account is 100% accurate.

and there are records of igbos who were freed slaves on the coast.

waiting for your rebuttal?

Jaja of Opobo was sold in a region notorious for being a source of slaves, way deep in the hinterland (now northern Imo state), Olaudah was captured by people who obviously came from nearby seeing as their community was only nearest to Benin (as a foreign land).

olaudah was sold to a coastal people who culturally filed their teeth.

he spent some time with them as a slave then was sold to foreign slavers who shipped him to america.


jaja of opobo:

Jaja of Opobo (full name: Jubo Jubogha; 1821–1891) was a merchant prince and the founder of Opobo city-state in an area that is now part of Nigeria. Born in Umuduruoha, Amaigbo in Igboland and sold at about age twelve as a slave in Bonny

wiki

is bonny in imo state?

The point was about people doing the enslaving, because someone said others were enslaving Igbo people which is untrue. Igbo people were selling Igbo people, to other Igbo people or to the coast.

tpia@:

jaja of opobo:

wiki

is bonny in imo state?

How do you think he got to Bonny, a major slave trading state with a slave trail leading to his hometown that's still present today?

because someone said others were enslaving Igbo people which is untrue

how is it untrue?

this argument is obviously cyclic.

EzeUche:

SHAME ON YOU ILEKE-IDI

We Igbos did not even know that you Yorubas even existed in pre-colonial times.

Will you hush?
Who was posting about pre colonial times.

PS: This thread is about modern Yoruba influence on Igbos.

As per precolonial times, were you in contact with Binis during the period when Yorubas where under Bini empire?

According to the Igbo article on wiki, the Nri Kingdom did not trade slaves and all slaves were considered free once they stepped into these lands. Furthermore, Igbo slaves were dealt with on an egalitarian basis, and even had their own slaves.

Now, according to this book, Igbo culture has been shaken completely to the bone by Christianity. This book is written by Edmund Ilogu. Contrary to what people on this thread say, the book indicates a British hegemony over the Igbo people even before 1890, through the use of missionaries backed by the Empire. This is in line with what the Wiki article has on Igbo people being a society bound religiously and not by kings or single rulers.

You can read the book here, the link starts right at the immediate losses to Igbo culture caused by Christianity. I would be interested to know if people are trying to revive these.

http://books.google.com/books?id=0uMUAAAAIAAJ&pg=PA63

Different groups created their own styles at different times. Igbo people have/had little interaction with Mande people, so their clothing aren't necessarily related because of similarities.

Igbo people traveled far and wide, even going all the way to Meccah. How can you say they were not influenced by these styles? The men who were the travelers possibly adapted various styles to igbo culture while the women maintained a distinct attire that unique only to Igbos. In many tribal cultures around the world the women can be seen to be the last to change.

BTW, im not saying the Igbo didnt develop these styles, im just giving food for thought.

BlackLibya:

According to the Igbo article on wiki, the Nri Kingdom did not trade slaves and all slaves were considered free once they stepped into these lands. Furthermore, Igbo slaves were dealt with on an egalitarian basis, and even had their own slaves.

Now, according to this book, Igbo culture has been shaken completely to the bone by Christianity. This book is written by Edmund Ilogu. Contrary to what people on this thread say, the book indicates a British hegemony over the Igbo people even before 1890, through the use of missionaries backed by the Empire. This is in line with what the Wiki article has on Igbo people being a society bound religiously and not by kings or single rulers.

You can read the book here, the link starts right at the immediate losses to Igbo culture caused by Christianity. I would be interested to know if people are trying to revive these.

http://books.google.com/books?id=0uMUAAAAIAAJ&pg=PA63

Missionaries arrived in small numbers in Onitsha around the 1850s, they only started venturing to other parts of Igboland, e.g the south eastern parts, after defeating the Aro in a war which the British had to do in order to open up that area and to establish the Southern Protectorate.

BlackLibya:

Igbo people traveled far and wide, even going all the way to Meccah. How can you say they were not influenced by these styles? The men who were the travelers possibly adapted various styles to igbo culture while the women maintained a distinct attire that unique only to Igbos. In many tribal cultures around the world the women can be seen to be the last to change.

BTW, im not saying the Igbo didnt develop these styles, im just giving food for thought.

Igbo people did not travel to Meccah, you're probably talking about long distance trading, which was carried out by middle men through Northern Igboland and the ethnicity's/states between them and the Hausa/Sahel. There wasn't any particular need to travel to Meccah and I believe if there was there would be accounts of people travelling (apart from legends of people leaving for Timbuktu every blue moon, which isn't an established route) and there's be words in Igbo for foreign ideas/people that predate 1901.

Missionaries arrived in small numbers in Onitsha around the 1850s, they only started venturing to other parts of Igboland, e.g the south eastern parts, after defeating the Aro in a war which the British had to do in order to open up that area and to establish the Southern Protectorate.

According to the book its the fact that they were there at all and not killed which allowed the British to extend their control into Igboland.

The spread of Christianity was coupled with the openness to the idea of something else other than "Igboland".

The Christianization of the Igbos did not result in the conquest of Igboland. It's the other way around.

"Igbo people traveled to Mecca". . "Yoruba enslaving Igbo". . . who is this BlackLibya character? He/she apparently lacks knowledge.

It's almost painful to read this thread. I've seen few other threads in nairaland with so many erroneous statements. I said I would leave this board alone for some weeks, but upon seeing this train wreck of a thread I just have to make a few comments.


@ everyone, I would advise you not to take this "BlackLibya" character too seriously.

He originally posted on this forum under the name "Knoowell" and his first act on this board was to proclaim the following:

https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-755008.0.html#msg9106160


If you scroll down you'll see where I responded to some of his assumptions.

His next post was in this thread:

https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=128391.msg9105757#msg9105757

Where he went on to make similar huge assumptions and make historical assertions without any backing.

I think he retired his original name out of embarrassment over his initial posts, but if anyone compares the diction used, the tone, and the same kind of simplistic reasoning, unfounded assumptions and lack of basic knowledge it's glaringly obvious that it's the same poster.

He is neither Bini nor Yoruba, but he is American and he seems to not know very much about Nigeria at all. Why he feels the need to inject Benin into a completely unrelated discussion (this discussion) is unclear to me. Why he feels the need to comment on the pre-colonial history of a country he's read virtually nothing about is also unclear.


@ BlackLibya/Knoowell, there are books and published articles which deal with the subject of pre-colonial Nigeria. One good source is the book Nigerian Perspectives by T. Hodgkin. It's about 400 pages long and contains numerous excerpts of descriptions of visits by foreigners to all parts of Nigeria. Anyone interested can track down the longer works it cites independent of the book, but the book gives a pretty good picture of many different places in Nigeria in pre-colonial times. If you actually think only Benin people were wearing traditional clothes or that the clothes worn by Benin and Yorubas were the same, you're very ill-informed because there is lots of written evidence against this.

He is neither Bini nor Yoruba, but he is American and he seems to not know very much about Nigeria at all. Why he feels the need to inject Benin into a completely unrelated discussion (this discussion) is unclear to me. Why he feels the need to comment on the pre-colonial history of a country he's read virtually nothing about is also unclear.


@ BlackLibya/Knoowell, there are books and published articles which deal with the subject of pre-colonial Nigeria. One good source is the book Nigerian Perspectives by T. Hodgkin. It's about 400 pages long and contains numerous excerpts of descriptions of visits by foreigners to all parts of Nigeria. Anyone interested can track down the longer works it cites independent of the book, but the book gives a pretty good picture of many different places in Nigeria in pre-colonial times. If you actually think only Benin people were wearing traditional clothes or that the clothes worn by Benin and Yorubas were the same, you're very ill-informed because there is lots of written evidence against this.

Lol, I do not even know who that guy is you are talking about. It's funny that you ahve done all this research to conclude that I am him.

The reason I injected Benin into a conversation about Yoruba, is because I am more familiar with Benin than with Yoruba. You can find different sources online that say the ancestors of the Yoruba founded Benin, but it appears the more correct that the Edo people were in fact the founders. With that said, the Edo and Yoruba people share similiar ancestry.

Whether or not they wore the same clothing or not would be an example of cultural diffusion. This happens. Egypt and Nubia were not the same kingdom, yet they shared many things in common with how they buried their dead and etc. It's called cultural exchange.

3rd, the book I cited above was written by an Igbo man, whose father was NOT A CHRISTIAN. So there.

^^^ What's your obsession with Yorubas?

I'm begining to think you're one of those "pretend to be outsiders" Nigerians.

^^^ What's your obsession with Yorubas?

I'm begining to think you're one of those "pretend to be outsiders" Nigerians.

What did I say negative about Yorubas that you are taking offense?

1. Never said you did.

2. Not taking offense, just curious.

BlackLibya:


Lol, I do not even know who that guy is you are talking about. It's funny that you ahve done all this research to conclude that I am him.

lol, research? I didn't do any research. I already believed that you and him were one and the same weeks ago because of your nearly identical writing style and because I thought it was impossible for two people to have the exact same ignorant and simplistic approach to places they didn't know about, but I guess you guys are just different ignoramuses.

The reason I injected Benin into a conversation about Yoruba, is because I am more familiar with Benin than with Yoruba. You can find different sources online that say the ancestors of the Yoruba founded Benin, but it appears the more correct that the Edo people were in fact the founders. With that said, the Edo and Yoruba people share similiar ancestry.

Actually you're not familiar with anything, or else you wouldn't interject Benin, whose traditional attire is completely unconnected to this discussion into this conversation under the moronic premise that Yorubas wear Benin traditional attire or that their traditional attire is one and the same.

I don't need to look online for answers about origins or ancestry. And the question of founding or whatever is irrelevant to the facts written down in precolonial times or the pictures taken in colonial times or now showing traditional attire. This is not some sort of mystery that needs unraveling through random online articles.

Whether or not they wore the same clothing or not would be an example of cultural diffusion. This happens. Egypt and Nubia were not the same kingdom, yet they shared many things in common with how they buried their dead and etc. It's called cultural exchange.

There isn't a question of "whether they wore the same clothing or not" because there is quite literally nothing to suggest that they did so the issue of cultural diffusion or cultural exchange does not come up.

3rd, the book I cited above was written by an Igbo man, whose father was NOT A CHRISTIAN. So there.

lol, so what if it was written by an Igbo man? I didn't ask about any book written by one person from one place in Igboland or comment on it. My point is that Benin traditional clothing isn't relevant here so it was dumb to bring it up. The rest of your crap has been addressed by other posters here, so I'm not going to bother responding further.

lol, so what if it was written by an Igbo man? I didn't ask about any book written by one person from one place in Igboland or comment on it. My point is that Benin traditional clothing isn't relevant here so it was dumb to bring it up. The rest of your crap has been addressed by other posters here, so I'm not going to bother responding further.

So it is impossible for people in Ilefe to have been wearing the same clothing as people in Benin, even though people in Benin were at least sometimes wearing the same clothing as the people in Ghana? Even though we have even seen pictures Igbo people who were even wearing clothing similiar to what is worn in Senegal or Mali?

It is now impossible? I cant discern whether this is ethnocentricism or whether you are representing a valid point.