OLAADEGBU:

Simply A New Creature

Like Paul the Apostle rightly notes, in his epistle to the Ephesians, it is only by grace that you can be save and finally make it to heaven. But while you are alive here on earth, grace takes hell right out of you and makes you sit together with Christ Jesus in the heavenly places. In fact, grace changes your position from that of a dead man to a living soul.

"He hath quickened us together with Christ, and hath raised us up together." "We cannot live where we used to live," Charles Spurgeon notes. "We cannot wear what we used to wear. If you had been raised from the dead, and had come out of your tomb, you would not go about with your shroud on."

OLAADEGBU:


How is it that some who claim to be God’s children are still fond of wearing their grave clothes?

tpia@:

italo is still going on and on about fornication?

must s/he shout fornication on every thread?

5solas:

Great post.
Lol. I hope this is not in reference to my last post. I believe believers still sin, but it is not typical for them so to do; their lives are not characterized by sin/sinning.

OLAADEGBU:

You are well on track. Believers' in Christ should not habitually or deliberately commit sin and this can be confirmed in the verse below.

"Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God" -- 1 John 3:9

italo:

Why are you so in a rush to shout me down?

Did you see the 'eg' before the fornication?

If you don't know which post I'm making reference to why not ask patiently, or be quiet about it?

Who - on this thread - has said that salvation is deserved? Again, if after reading the title, you still don't know the bone of contention on this thread, why not go on another thread?

Anyway I was referring to the post above the one you think, where he said "salvation produces good works" and "saving faith will be demonstrated in good works".

So I wonder, since salvation alone produces good works, it cannot produce bad works. Does this mean that if I see a man doing a bad thing, he hasn't been saved?

In other words, can a born-again christian sin? YES or NO!

Or, to personalize it, since you became born-again, have you sinned? YES or NO

italo:

Why are you so in a rush to shout me down?

Did you see the 'eg' before the fornication?

If you don't know which post I'm making reference to why not ask patiently, or be quiet about it?

Who - on this thread - has said that salvation is deserved? Again, if after reading the title, you still don't know the bone of contention on this thread, why not go on another thread?

Anyway I was referring to the post above the one you think, where he said "salvation produces good works" and "saving faith will be demonstrated in good works".

So I wonder, since salvation alone produces good works, it cannot produce bad works. Does this mean that if I see a man doing a bad thing, he hasn't been saved?

In other words, can a born-again christian sin? YES or NO!

Or, to personalize it, since you became born-again, have you sinned? YES or NO!

5solas:

I totally agree with you.

However, how would you respond to the bolded below:

Italo is a gainsayer whose mouth must be stopped and it will help if we give answers to his queries. Surely, this is a simple question, or is it not?

Fish Flow

OLAADEGBU:

A Christian does not deliberately commit sin, if a Christian sins, it is against his will.   

OLAADEGBU:

One who is born again does not habitually commit sin.  He falls rather than dives into sin, he resists rather than embraces sin. 

OLAADEGBU:

It is a simple question which can be answered with 1 John 3:9 that I quoted earlier. A Christian does not deliberately commit sin, if a Christian sins, it is against his will. One who is born again does not habitually commit sin. He falls rather than dives into sin, he resists rather than embraces sin. Any dead fish can float downstream. It takes a live fish to swim against the flow. Born again Christians still experience temptations and can sometimes fall into sin, but they are no longer slaves to sin (Roman 6:6). We have God's Holy Spirit within us to help us to say no to temptation, and to convict our conscience of wrong doing when we do sin. This you cannot say of a dead fish.

"Forasmuch then as Christ has suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that has suffered in the flesh has ceased from sin" (1 Peter 4:1 The Evidence Bible).

italo:

@5solas,

Do you agree with olaadegbu's statement in post #71 that "a Christian does not deliberately commit sin, if a Christian sins, it is against his will"?

5solas:

Sometimes, words fail us. I agree completely that a christian does not deliberately sin , in this wise- it is not in his nature so to do. However, it should not be stretched to imply that a believer CANNOT deliberately sin . I believe most sins are willful. The thrust of his post is that the believer does not delight in sin/sinning.

italo:

Ok, I actually only asked if you agree with the statement. From your post, you obviously don't agree, at least, not completely.

But you did a little more. Your post seems to suggest that olaadegbu might not have meant it the way it looks. That the words he used probably don't convey what he must have had in mind. That - I think - is unnecessary. Olaadegbu is the only one that can tell us if 'words failed him'. Let him say.

Now coming back to you. Since you admit that a born-again Christian can commit sin willfully, what then happens to a born-again Christian who commits a serious sin e.g adultery or murder, and then he doesn't repent before he dies. Let us imagine that he didn't repent, not because he didn't want to, but because he procastinated until it was too late.

Does such a man go to heaven because he was born-again or does he go to hell because of the gravity of his sins?

italo:

@5solas,

Do you mind answering my question first; then I'll answer yours. Thanks.

italo:

@olaadegbu,

I'm having a hard time trying to understand the meaning of your last post. Are you maintaining your stance that 'a Christian CANNOT deliberately sin or you're somewhat changing it. If you're changing it, what is your new stance? Feel free.

Zikkyy:

How is this possible?

Zikkyy:

what's the difference? stop deceiving yourself. one can fall, dive, run, jump or crash into sin. The approach to sin does not really matter

5solas:

If you cannot consider a simple case or an average case (but would rather stick to your extreme case), I am going to allow a stalemate (for now), but note you are on check   .

OLAADEGBU:

Do you deliberately lie, steal, commit adultery/fornication, fight etc. (in the act) and then say that you will repent later?

OLAADEGBU:

An eagle that is airborne is different from a fish that is aquatic, the fact that the eagle occasionally falls into water doesnt make it a fish, does it?  Do you swim in sin like a fish will swim in water?  Is sin natural to you as water is natural to a fish?

Zikkyy:

If you want to plead 'not guilty', you have to come with defenses similar to what i have listed below:

1. False accusation - Somebody did it on your behalf.
2. Prove insanity
3. It happened in your dream

Otherwise you have to plead guilty Oga OLAADEGBU, there is always an option; it's either yes or no. You can't commit adultery then go to God and claim you were forced to do it. Who forced you? Even Jesus was tempted.

Zikkyy:

It is not bout the eagle or fish; it's about the water. Do you or do you not swim? Did the instruction state that permanent swimmers are not allowed, but occasional swimmers are welcome?

OLAADEGBU:

If you insist on playing the "gility or not gility" game I suggest you visit the link below.  I certainly didn't pass that test. Click on the link and see what I did to qualify for heaven.

http://www.areyouagoodperson.org/

OLAADEGBU:

It's about the water, is the water then your natural habitat like it is to a fish?  Are you a permanent swimmer that only comes up briefly for fresh air?  Are you a saint or a sinner?  Righteous or unrighteous?  Upright or crooked?

OLAADEGBU:

"If you squeeze a lemon, you should get lemon juice.  If you squeeze an orange, you should get orange juice.  If you squeeze a Christian, you should get Christ." 

Zikkyy:

I think you are confused tell me how the above address the issue of Christians being 'forced' to sin.

Zikkyy:

LOL Please tell me, what other difference (aside frequency ) exist between the man that commits adultery once a year and the man that commits same act once weekly?

Zikkyy:

I agree with you on this one. I guess the problem has to do with a lot of lemons masquerading as Christians There is that possibility you could be a lemon Have you been squeezed lately

OLAADEGBU:

You have to first address the issue of whether you are a new creature or not.  If you are a new creature why will you want to move around in your grave cloths?

OLAADEGBU:

If you commit the act of adultery at all you should examine yourself whether you were in the faith in the first place.

Zikkyy:

Nna, why do you keep shifting the goalpost? Now you've taken the goalpost off the pitch and kept in your bedroom Oga, i was responding to a post where you said Christian sins are not willful. Now you are telling me i have to "first address the issue of whether the Christian is a new creature or not"

You told us a Christian "falls rather than dive into sin". Now you are telling me to first examine whether the Christian that "falls into sin" was a Christian in the first place. Oga OLAADEGBU, na wa for you