I disagree with this and the grail message's concept of divinity.
This idea that god is far too lofty and therefore is far removed from his creation is incongruent to the many hermetic philosophies that view the creator as being completely immersed in creation rather than standing aloof from it.
This idea of a lofty god assumes that god is perfection. What is perfection? perfection would be mean a static state of being- something that is mathematically and conceptually impossible.
The universe is dynamic, the underlying cause, if any, must also be dynamic.
Therefore god is also evolving with universe in the only way possible-by completely immersing itself in and interacting with the universe.

^ But when one considers the enigma of eternity, from what point, and to what point would God be evolving?

If God itself were evolving, then God could not be self-existent.

That would instantly sweep away the God-notion, and also create a great many philosophical problems - such as the enigma of a default state of matter "just existing" - which for me is impossible as matter does not have the properties of self-existent things.

Exactly my point, Deepsight. The god notion is always a contradiction no matter from what angle one approaches it.
The ceaseless interaction of an all-pervading,purposeless pulsating energy seem more plausible and offers the the least contradictions.

For strictly physical energy, yes.

It cannot explain the obvious spiritual energies inherent in our reality.

Deep Sight:
For strictly physical energy, yes.

It cannot explain the obvious spiritual energies inherent in our reality.

Energy ,in my view, energy transcends the physical. I think our three dimensional physical reality can be likened to just one channel or station in an infinite radio.
What we term 'spiritual' are just higher frequencies, octaves or dimensions of the same energy.

Outside energy, time, matter, information and space, what else exists?

plaetton:

Energy ,in my view, energy transcends the physical. I think our three dimensional physical reality can be likened to just one channel or station in an infinite radio.
What we term 'spiritual' are just higher frequencies, octaves or dimensions of the same energy.

hmm - a unified position that makes it all make sense

I am just seeing this last response from you five months after. Excellent explanation. I think it delivers your point to perfection. However let us look at these divine radiations and the fact that they are co-eternal with God itself: does this mean that they eternally spawn creations (which will mean some sort of creations have eternally existed) or that the radiations only coalesce into creations if expressly willed by the mind of the creator?

Would such "express willing" be consistent with immutability of the creator?

I think I once discussed acts of intervention with you and justcool as being inconsistent with an adamantine and immutable God.

Hi DeepSight. Thanks for your kind words. The answer to your question lies in understanding the meaning of two words: eternity and creation. Eternity is, meaning that it has no beginning nor end. Creation on the other hand began to exist. Thus in reality, creation is not eternal since it began to exist at a "point". Thus in the strict sense of the word, it will be inaccurate to regard the divine realm and beings inhabiting it as creations. The divine realm consists of formed and unformed direct emanations of God, and these direct emanations are eternal. The divine beings are full of activity but these activities have always been and it is impossible to to say that the activities started at this point or the other. The activities of the divine beings is. Thus, it will be wrong to label the activities of the divine beings as creations because these activities have no beginning or end. Now a little digression which may help you get the picture I am painting. It is only within creation where these direct emanations of God have cooled off with the resultant decrease in pressure, an effect of the power of God is it possible to differentiate the end and the beginning. Outside of creation, in the divine realm, in the "proximity" of GOD, the pressure due to the power of GOD have not slackened or cooled down, thus all activities are instantaneous, the end is the beginning and the beginning is the end. In other words it did not begin to exist but has always being, no beginning and no endiing. I know it is difficult to form a mental picture of this but I am sure your spirit will sense what I am trying to say.

Yes, we have discussed this before. My position remains that a conscious act of Gods will is compatible with an adamantine and immutable God. Just try to see that a conscious act of Gods will is an immutable but not arbitrary act. The omniscience of God lies in the fact that his adamantine and immutable laws are all encompassing such that it can take care of all possibilities. Thus there are contingencies for known and unknown possibilities within creation. These contingencies are not arbitrary acts as you seem to suggest but a fulfillment of the adamantine and immutable laws of God. Just remember that God is the Living Law. As always stay blessed.

Deep Sight:

^ But when one considers the enigma of eternity, from what point, and to what point would God be evolving?

If God itself were evolving, then God could not be self-existent.

That would instantly sweep away the God-notion, and also create a great many philosophical problems - such as the enigma of a default state of matter "just existing" - which for me is impossible as matter does not have the properties of self-existent things.

Let me try to answer this in another way.
Energy is the only thing that exists. When energy is in a state of equilibrium(perhaps temprory) we call it a state of nothingness.That is when god is said to exist in a state of perfection. When energy interacts(creation or big b.ang),energy is no longer in equilibrium and god is no longer perfect.
LeChatelier's principle sets in.
Lechatelier's principle states that " when a system is in equilibrium and then one of the factors responsible for the equilibrium is altered, the system will move so as to tend to annull the change and restore the equilibrium". The thermostat on your ac is a typical example.

So in this case,once energy was transormed into matter by way of E=MC2 in the big ban.g/creation, the system/energy or god went into disequilibrium and thus began the evolution of both the primordial energy/god and its ofspring(matter) in an attempt to restore the original equilibrium.
So everything is eventually evolving towards a state of perfection (nothingness).

Just take a look. Stars and galaxies are born and then over time, collapse and die(back to a temporary state of nothing, and then, new stars emerge from the same.
So, as it is above , so it is below. Organic life follows much the same cycle of equilibrium(death) and disequilibrium(life).
So the starting point of god's evolution would appear to be the big. ba.ng or during creation , as creationist would call it.

Let me try another analogy. Once you give off a piece of your self to father a child, your life can never remain the same. From the moment of conception, the child evolves towards you and you evolve towards the child.

plaetton:

Let me try to answer this in another way.
Energy is the only thing that exists. When energy is in a state of equilibrium(perhaps temprory) we call it a state of nothingness.That is when god is said to exist in a state of perfection. When energy interacts(creation or big b.ang),energy is no longer in equilibrium and god is no longer perfect.
LeChatelier's principle sets in.
Lechatelier's principle states that " when a system is in equilibrium and then one of the factors responsible for the equilibrium is altered, the system will move so as to tend to annull the change and restore the equilibrium". The thermostat on your ac is a typical example.

So in this case,once energy was transormed into matter by way of E=MC2 in the big ban.g/creation, the system/energy or god went into disequilibrium and thus began the evolution of both the primordial energy/god and its ofspring(matter) in an attempt to restore the original equilibrium.
So everything is eventually evolving towards a state of perfection (nothingness).

Just take a look. Stars and galaxies are born and then over time, collapse and die(back to a temporary state of nothing, and then, new stars emerge from the same.
So, as it is above , so it is below. Organic life follows much the same cycle of equilibrium(death) and disequilibrium(life).
So the starting point of god's evolution would appear to be the big. ba.ng or during creation , as creationist would call it.

I love this.

Except the references to "nothingness" - - - that is absolutely NOT what nothingness refers to. It is absurd to describe any energy as nothingness - - - regardless its state.

Let me try another analogy. Once you give off a piece of your self to father a child, your life can never remain the same. From the moment of conception, the child evolves towards you and you evolve towards the child.

Not quite sure about this. But nice thought.

Deep Sight: Thak you for your thought-provoking questions.

My view is that the encapsulation and unity of all intangible eternity is what is God itself. This is not nothingness - for in my perception nothingness strictly speaking is nothing: and as such does not exist at all.

If we could rightly perceive or picture eternity, infinite time and infinite space, and understand that such constitutes a unified reality, we could begin, in my view, to remotely conceive of what God is or means. It is that infinite reality which being an unchangeable  constant, is the compound and self-existent encapsulation of the eternal reality itself. That is what God is - and that is why it simply is - God is.

It is not nothing - for in its very still and one unity, it encompasses the limitless span of every infinite possibility that may exist - and is thus the core egg, which contains, perhaps i might say, the genes for everything else.

The unity of such an eternal reality is in my view, being the fount of reality, the most powerful force that is, or could exist. And that very unity - that oneness - is what i understand to be the oneness of God - and this is where i locate my apprehension of my monotheistic view. It might seem odd to say, but it is at the self-same time a coin that can be viewed in endless and infinite polytheistic views, given that we speak of infinity.

Now the oneness of eternity - which is God - in my view - by its very nature and oneness implies certain self-existent properties about it. Some of the most basic would be its constancy - which is the real meaning of truth itself, indeed, which is what truth is, its oneness - which is the real meaning of love - because the purest and ultimate love is in reality a reflection of the principle of oneness and its perfect balance - which is the real meaning of justice and harmony.

These things are thus, in their purest form, subsumed within the ONENESS itself, as self existent properties of the ONENESS - which is God. They are very real in their existence as properties of the ONENESS OF ETERNITY, which is what God is.

There are  also other properties which emanate naturally as consequenecs of that oneness. The laws of existence all emanate naturally as self-existent properties of the ONENESS. This is why the laws of existence are immutable and bespeak balance. This is also why I like to describe God as simply the compound of self-existent laws. That is what God encapsulates and is. And it is from this nature that the creations naturally spring forth in accordance with the properties of the ONENESS. And not from nothingness.

This is just my personal and humble view of God - and i realize it will be completely empty and meaningless especially to the hardened materialist.

Well said. It so happens my thoughts on God were gravitating towards this.

Choi! See confam topic.