O Allah, You Be The Judge Between Us And Our People; They Decevd And Desertd Us - Islam for Muslims (2) - Nairaland
Nairaland Forum / Nairaland / General / Religion / Islam for Muslims / O Allah, You Be The Judge Between Us And Our People; They Decevd And Desertd Us (6230 Views)
Go Easy On Yourself (may Allah Have Mercy On You) / Wonders Of Allah, You Need To See This / NL Muslims, Be The Judge Of Your Own Moderator...lol... (2) (3) (4)
| Re: O Allah, You Be The Judge Between Us And Our People; They Decevd And Desertd Us by Zhulfiqar1: 11:49am On Dec 19, 2011 |
:p |
| Re: O Allah, You Be The Judge Between Us And Our People; They Decevd And Desertd Us by isalegan2: 11:55am On Dec 19, 2011 |
Vedaxcool, Why are you so passionate about attacking fellow Muslims?  You don't see enough Muslim-haters on Nairaland to engage?  |
| Re: O Allah, You Be The Judge Between Us And Our People; They Decevd And Desertd Us by vedaxcool(m): 11:57am On Dec 19, 2011 |
^^^ Attacking fellow muslims? can you explain on what you mean by that! thank you |
| Re: O Allah, You Be The Judge Between Us And Our People; They Decevd And Desertd Us by Onyocha: 12:18pm On Dec 19, 2011 |
vedaxcool: others are doing their best in explaining to others what and why they believe differently on certain issues.i'm not saying you should not air your views.but do that within the frame of dialogue and reason.their effort should be commended in clarifying matters and decrease tension and increase understanding.there would be less suspicion and rumour about them. you are the one antagonizing them by digging the internet for provocative claims.you even use insults to label a group of muslims that the Shia are. in a well moderated and regulated forum,you deserve to be banned. |
| Re: O Allah, You Be The Judge Between Us And Our People; They Decevd And Desertd Us by vedaxcool(m): 12:28pm On Dec 19, 2011 |
^^^^^ Yawns! what a ruse indeed you state, after reading your comment, I see a total disregard for the truth! thank you, but no thanks! |
| Re: O Allah, You Be The Judge Between Us And Our People; They Decevd And Desertd Us by Zhulfiqar1: 12:35pm On Dec 19, 2011 |
thank God there are reasonable people on nairaland who are able to discriminate between truth and falsehood and see outright foolishness and madness for what it is. Alhamdulillah! may Allah reward them!!! |
| Re: O Allah, You Be The Judge Between Us And Our People; They Decevd And Desertd Us by vedaxcool(m): 12:58pm On Dec 19, 2011 |
^^^^ Cries of desperation!  |
| Re: O Allah, You Be The Judge Between Us And Our People; They Decevd And Desertd Us by Zhulfiqar1: 1:14pm On Dec 19, 2011 |
vedaxcool: so you go to forums to make people "desperate" or laugh at their "desperation",right? the flames of fitnah will only consume you alone. |
| Re: O Allah, You Be The Judge Between Us And Our People; They Decevd And Desertd Us by vedaxcool(m): 7:56am On Dec 20, 2011 |
^^^^^ at least he confessed that he is in a state of desperation! |
| Re: O Allah, You Be The Judge Between Us And Our People; They Decevd And Desertd Us by isalegan2: 7:42pm On Dec 20, 2011 |
Zhul-fiqar: I noticed you've decided to go and start your own idiotic "marriage" thread where Muslims can sling insults at other Muslims. Very mature. (I know the moderating is sub-par.) Instead of dealing with the haters, you guys are battling and disgracing each other.  Vedaxcool, I promised months ago to read more of your posts but didn't get a chance. I think this is as good a time as any. |
| Re: O Allah, You Be The Judge Between Us And Our People; They Decevd And Desertd Us by LagosShia: 8:03pm On Dec 20, 2011 |
isale_gan2: Sister, once you were actually glad that Vedaxcool (who i personally regard a kafir and nothing less) was annoying me. i know well that if i as a Shia who follows the absolute truth and the true Islam wants to follow my annoyance and anger in replying "Vedaxcool" many people would not be happy at what i can expose on sunnism and their scholars and teachings that are far off from islam. but i swallowed my pride for the common good."Vedaxcool" still persisted and happily called us names and insulted us and lied without caution against us.no one cautioned him but once when you did in this thread. i know brother Zhul-Fiqar took his time to explain things.but Vedaxcool does not want to reason.just like what i face from the christians who throw insults against the Prophet (sa),Vedaxcool only insults and incite bad feelings.no reasoning at all.he is even worse than christians because he is supposed to be (sunni) muslim.if i myself wanted to use the same approach i use on christians when debating with them,many of you will hate me.but i refrained. i have appealed to brother Zhul-Fiqar to drop it as you can see here: https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-829216.0.html#msg9805366 |
| Re: O Allah, You Be The Judge Between Us And Our People; They Decevd And Desertd Us by tpia5: 9:47pm On Dec 20, 2011 |
ok, i did a little background reading on the topic. what i gather [ and how this involves iraq] is: after the death of Mohammed, there was a power struggle between the caliphs and his immediate family members [represented by his grandchildren from Fatima, Khadija's daughter]. Ali was one of the grandchildren, and had been primed as Mohammed's successor in the caliphate. He was unable to immediately take that position because while the family were doing the burial rites for Mohammed, the caliphs quickly appointed someone else to lead the empire. Ali [or was it Hussain] didnt dispute their actions at the time, for the sake of peace. He later got the position after sometime [people died]. War broke out. Ali or Hussain established a capital at Basra or Kufa in Iraq. This leader was asked by a certain faction or town, to come to their area as their chief imam. They reassured him with letters and also a kind of army consisting of 18,000 men. He accepted and set out. Along the way [or after he got there], he was murdered. An annual festival is held to commemorate this, in basra or kufa, where his followers wail, lament and vow vengeance. still studying the subject, its somehow detailed and spans many countries and time periods. |
| Re: O Allah, You Be The Judge Between Us And Our People; They Decevd And Desertd Us by isalegan2: 11:38pm On Dec 20, 2011 |
LagosShia: hmmm. No. I don't think I was glad. That was the first time I noticed Vedaxcool because I wasn't visiting the Islam section regularly and still don't (for reasons I've stated in other threads). I'd read you often and we once discussed this Mutah marriage issue in a non-acrimonious manner - at least you and I did. I knew you were persistent, from reading the posts. But, I never had an issue with you. My issue with that section has always been with the moderating, and never with any members. My comments about Vedaxcool from those months ago was a humorous one about my shock that anyone had the tenacity to make LagosShia yield or withdraw from a face-off. Nothing more nothing less. I had no idea he made it a practice to challenge or even harass Shias. There are lots of anti-Muslim posters who are allowed to run wild in the Islam section, and if some battle-hardy debater wants to engage them, more power to him. I don't see the purpose of wasting that energy waging war on fellow Muslims. The moment I realised what was what was going on, in this thread, I said something. Salaam. P.S.: Now, I do know you have created threads and had passionate debates about Umar, Aisha, Fatima, etc. I don't expect you to concede on those issues since that is a core aspect of your beliefs, hence the break with some other Muslims. I will need to spend some more time reading Vedaxcool's posts to understand this ongoing battle that he appears to be waging. |
| Re: O Allah, You Be The Judge Between Us And Our People; They Decevd And Desertd Us by LagosShia: 1:24am On Dec 21, 2011 |
@isale_gan2 i wont really call "Vedaxcool" replies "debate".a debate or discussion must be centered on reasoning and courtesy.when someone is calling you liar,hypocrite,traitor and the sort,there would be really nothing left to debate. can i debate insults? especially personal ones? if i want to apply a tough approach and debate someone supposed to be muslim like the way i debate christians-"fire for fire"-we'd end up with many threads like the one brother Zhul-Fiqar started.and many won't like that even though bro Zhul-Fiqar actually insulted no one and everything in that thread is copied from sunni books.yet still people won't like to be exposed as such. anyways,i pray for others to be guided.but no one should think insults and lies would deter others from spreading the truth.someone like "Vedaxcool" is best left ignored until he decides to change. SALAM. |
| Re: O Allah, You Be The Judge Between Us And Our People; They Decevd And Desertd Us by LagosShia: 1:30am On Dec 21, 2011 |
@tpia your effort is well commended and received.may Allah guide you and have mercy on you!!! tpia@: Not really power struggle.some gangsters usurped what did not belong to them and rejected the appointment of the Prophet (sa) and the will of Allah who blessed the Household of Muhammad (sa) as He had blessed the Household of Abraham and Jacob. read more about:Saqifa Banu Saeda.that is where the coup took place.it "struggle" as you depicted it was not between the "family members" or grandchildren.the appointment was made for Imam Ali (as).so Imam Ali (as) represented the Household. Imam Ali (as) was the son-in-law of the Prophet Muhammad (sa) and cousin.he is the father of the grandchildren of the Prophet (sa),Hassan and Hussain (as). "caliph" means "successor".when the Prophet (sa) passed away,Imam Ali (as) was the appointed "successor".but the usurpers took power away and denied the appointment of the Prophet (sa) and the choice of Allah in favor of Imam Ali (as). there were verbal protests only.no armed struggle for the sake of maintaining islamic unity and to avoid bloodshed. there was no war.war only broke out after Imam Ali (as) was finally asked to take over the caliphate after abu bakr,umar and usthman had all ruled through usurpation. muawiya and aisha both revolted. Imam Ali (as) did. this refers to Imam Hussain (as) years after Imam Ali (as),his father,was martyred. ok. |
| Re: O Allah, You Be The Judge Between Us And Our People; They Decevd And Desertd Us by tpia5: 2:04am On Dec 21, 2011 |
Khadijah, I mean. |
| Re: O Allah, You Be The Judge Between Us And Our People; They Decevd And Desertd Us by vedaxcool(m): 11:22pm On Dec 22, 2011 |
isale_gan2: [size=14pt] Your comments are noted, but i like will indicate to you, you evidently aren't in tune with events, as I start my you go o all the recent threads i started and you will see that zhul fiqah is obviously trying desperately to derail every thread i start, this behavior clearly shows some one does not want the TRUTH to be out! as much as I find it beneath me engaging some one who only wants others to accept his view, i do show pity and concern for his dilemma, a situation that makes him curse when he can no longer bring valid point. Picking on shias, no Telling the truth is what I am doing simple and short. @Lagosshia, you are actually the one that needs to prove that you are not a Kafir, atleast frosbel considers you one and as for manner during debate, you religion actually teaches you to insult and curse and shout Ya Ali madad, no wonder no such help ever comes your e.g as you did during this thread:LagosShia Re: Raisins Or Virgins In Paradise? Christian paradise never had this vagueness « #32 on: August 24, 2011, 11:00 AM » you're talking trash! Grin you're trash!!! Grin Grin your father is trash!!!! Grin Grin Grin your mother is trash!!!!! Grin Grin Grin Grin your bible is trash and everything you believe in is also trash!!!! Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin you're a bas.tard,and son of a bas.tard!!!! Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin you are like your father,the devil,you evil and adulterous generation according to the words of Jesus!!!! Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin shebi you sabi throw insults?oya now,lets go!!! to which an atheist asked and these occurred during Ramadan thehomer Re: Raisins Or Virgins In Paradise? Christian paradise never had this vagueness « #38 on: August 24, 2011, 06:47 PM » Haba. Are you sure you're fasting? This is an anonymous online forum and you're getting so worked up. Are you sure you want to go as far as calling the Bible trash? It does refer to lots of the same characters as your Qur'an you know. Imagine Lagoshia being Islamic poster of the year, what a big shame it will be on the whole of this section! I laugh at your reasoning indeed and ability to make sensible arguements [/size] |
| Re: O Allah, You Be The Judge Between Us And Our People; They Decevd And Desertd Us by LagosShia: 11:30pm On Dec 22, 2011 |
a kafir who praises muawiyah is talking about the "truth".a kafir that insults the grandsons of the Prophet (sa) thinks he is muslim.wallahi the deepest level of jahannam is too cold for such person!!! insulting "frosbel"?well "frosbel" before used the dirtiest of words to refer to our beloved Prophet (sa).so no amount of insult against him isn't justified. poster of the year? muslims would determine that.but thats the least of my worries.and wallahi i dont care. you can vote for "frosbel" as "islamic poster of the year".a kafir will vote for a kafir just like a mushrik will marry a mushrika.afterall "frosbel" has also contributed in this section in abusing Islam. i hope people have less dobt that the misguided fellow who goes mad in copy/paste thinking he is fighting for his so called "truth",and see that the person is more of a kafir than even frosbel.his kufr is hidden and mixed with nifaq while that of frosbel is open kufr. |
| Re: O Allah, You Be The Judge Between Us And Our People; They Decevd And Desertd Us by vedaxcool(m): 11:59pm On Dec 22, 2011 |
vedaxcool: [size=14pt]His response again proves that shiasm is based on being mannerless, insulting ones parent over the action of a married individual, a married man that is 100% responsible for his actions, insulting his parents! na by force make persin dey reply for nl? thru away his fasting because of frosbel! well that is the behavior of shais anyway![/size] |
| Re: O Allah, You Be The Judge Between Us And Our People; They Decevd And Desertd Us by ZhulFiqar: 12:24am On Dec 23, 2011 |
vedaxcool: are you his God to say that he "threw away his fast"? you're defending a kafir against someone who testifies in the shahada. are you for real? why would frosbel use bad words against the Prophet (sa)? if he was given good home training by his parents,he would not have done that.do muslims insult Jesus (pbuh)? |
| Re: O Allah, You Be The Judge Between Us And Our People; They Decevd And Desertd Us by isalegan2: 3:44am On Dec 23, 2011 |
vedaxcool: Well, are these new threads you've started specifically targeting Shias or Shia doctrine? Vedaxcool, I wouldn't mind knowing a little bit more about you. As I've said before, I have made an effort to read your posts - reviewing them in your profile so I can better understand you. (Sorry, it's not stalking o.) I always like to know what and who I'm dealing with before jumping into an issue. I honestly have not been very successful getting far in understanding you enough to feel comfortable about commenting too deeply. Anyway, I don't want to shine the spotlight on you, so I will stop here. lol. |
| Re: O Allah, You Be The Judge Between Us And Our People; They Decevd And Desertd Us by vedaxcool(m): 9:01am On Dec 23, 2011 |
isale_gan2: [size=14pt]The new threads I started where specifically refuting shia doctrine. Like this thread definitely gave the historical background with regards to the role of shias of Kufa in the death of Imam Hussain r.a, now certain individuals believe unless you accept their own view on issues, as I have shown how "civil" lagoshia is in debate, to which zhul Fiqah follows closely. What is driving my thread, well say Jihad against falsehood. I am willing to hand in any more clarifications you may require.[/size] ZhulFiqar: [size=14pt] sorry, I forgot that Insulting, Slandering and cursing is seen as halal in shias doctrine, to believe he called frosbel bastard, indirectly slandering his mum, just the entire response shows the pitfalls of shiasm[/size] |
| Re: O Allah, You Be The Judge Between Us And Our People; They Decevd And Desertd Us by ZhulFiqar: 11:33am On Dec 23, 2011 |
vedaxcool: a funny and stubborn goat you are! still referring to the hypocrites of kufa who had conflicting creeds and beliefs "shia". while he refuses to see that companions sunnis honor were complacent and responsible for the killing of usthman,the third sunni calips.he totally ignores the question:"where were sunnis,when Imam Hussain (as) was martyred"? some people are just fantastic in expressing their wet-dreams!!!
a street kid like yourself who uses dirty words against others without any justification should see nothing wrong with what you accuse others of and insult them .you use insults to offend others and not to react with annoyance.it is amazing how you are so staunchly defending a kafir who does not hesistate or think twice before insulting and calling the Prophet Muhammad (sa) the ugliest of names and expressions.shame on you! i am sure you know how Jesus addressed his contemporaries.what would you say to "frosbel"?here is a post made by brother "LagosShia": "Jesus, Insults And The Jews": https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-817012.0.html |
| Re: O Allah, You Be The Judge Between Us And Our People; They Decevd And Desertd Us by isalegan2: 3:47am On Dec 24, 2011 |
vedaxcool: So, you feel it is your calling to spend time highlighting what you deem objectionable about Shia belief and practices? What is the ultimate aim? To stop them from participating in this section or this site altogether? To encourage them to abandon their beliefs and come to the Sunni side? I am sure you know that most people follow the faiths of their parents. My father is Sunni as was his father before him. I suspect LagosShia was born of Shia parents. Everybody answers to their father's name. Do you really expect him to abandon his faith and spit at his father's house? Is there any amount of insults, hypocrisy and condemnation from the religious bigots on this site or anywhere else that will make you denounce your faith? With regards to this Mutah issue that;s got so many worked up, didn't someone post a survey indicating that it is not widely practiced or supported. Is anyone forced to partake in it? I doubt either of these Shia men can go and delete Shia belief from wherever it is written. All they can do is explain it. Please get control of yourself. All of you. I don't even know why you can't fight the good fight instead of attacking each other. sorry, I forgot that Insulting, Slandering and cursing is seen as halal in shias doctrine, to believe he called frosbel bastard, indirectly slandering his mum, just the entire response shows the pitfalls of shiasm See your life. Making excuses for an odious creature such as Frosbel. Time to re-evaluate your goals, bros. Yes, I took a liking to you, at first. Pardon my quirks: I'm drawn to confident opinionated guys with a tendency to be defiant and combative. Mea Culpa! lol. But, I am reading your exchanges with LagosShia and ZhulFiqar and I am not liking what I see. So, you can tell me a little more about yourself. Your posts are kinda hard to understand too. Hence, the delay in getting caught up on what makes Vedaxcool "Vedaxcool." In conclusion, I hope you can handle a little honest evaluation (ok, criticism). Apologies if it was harsh. You can tell me what I missed that led to this bloodletting amongst Muslims. I already admitted I frequent the section less and less, and concede you may feel perfectly justified continuing in this manner. Thanks for your time. |
| Re: O Allah, You Be The Judge Between Us And Our People; They Decevd And Desertd Us by LagosShia: 12:30pm On Dec 24, 2011 |
@Isale_gan2 Salamu Alaykom, i just want to clear what you mentioned of me or think rather.i was not born of shia parents.i do not necessarily have to follow what my parents follow or worship.the Quran clearly objects to that because every soul shall carry its own burden. "Nay! They say: "We found our fathers following a certain way and religion, and we guide ourselves by their footsteps."(43:22) i became shia out of my love for islam and my affinity to religion and God.i discovered the truth.and that really was a shock to me.i could not believe that even though my father is muslim,he didn't follow Islam as the Prophet (sa) willed for us and Allah dictated which is through the guidance of the Ahlul-Bayt (as).it is a very bad situation when you discover that many things are concealed from you and you have lived your life praising the wrong people like abu bakr and umar.you come out of that state with intense heat to hate them more than anyone.just reading "Hadith ath-Thaqalain" or the "Hadith of the Two Weighty Things" was a shock.i as sunni was always told that the Prophet (sa) said he left behind the Quran and his sunnah.and ofcourse "sunnah of the Prophet" must be taken from the companions who sunnis do not discriminate between the good and bad monstrous ones who caused damage to Islam in the years after the demise of the Prophet (sa).but i discovered that in many undisputed sources in sunni books of hadith,the Prophet (sa) said he was leaving behind the "two weighty things" which are the Quran and his progeny who are his Ahlul-Bayt (as).that if we continue to abide by these two we will never go astray! i asked myself who has being lying to us?this is in our books but i did not know it if not that i read a Shia book!!!who is lying here?have i being lying to myself?isn't this the will of the Prophet (sa) who Allah described in the Quran as of "sublime moral character" and someone who "does not speak from his desires"?it was not easy!!!it is even harder than a christian becoming muslim.because i considered myself muslim only to find out that i was following a lie and not the complete truth as the man (Muhammad s.a.) who i honor most wants me to follow. the rest is history!!! before i used to have some regards for "Vedaxcool".i actually thought he could be a reasonable fellow.but all i discovered was an irrational person who is bias and have prejudice demonstrating hate and allergy to the word "Shia".i really pray everyone is guided and nothing but the guidance of Almighty Allah that He has willed for mankind. |
| Re: O Allah, You Be The Judge Between Us And Our People; They Decevd And Desertd Us by isalegan2: 4:54pm On Dec 24, 2011 |
LagosShia, Waleikum Salaam. Thank you for your reply. I understand you a little better now. But in my earlier comment while attempting to encourage you and Vedaxcool to agree to disagree, I only meant that most people do stay within the faith where they were raised, and it wouldn't make any difference how much they're castigated for what they believe. Of course I spoke in generalities since I didn't know you personally or your circumstance. Yes, there are many people crossing over from one denomination to the other (in all the religions) and one "faith" to another. But it is not realistic to expect a mass conversion - overnight, like a whole community to switch to your beliefs - overnight. For example, most of Iran is Shia. Does anyone expect millions of people to switch to Sunni. Or most of Egypt is Sunni - they will not be switching any time soon. That is why I don't care for acrimonious exchanges or a labeling of one group simply because you believe differently. Debate is good, but to keep rehashing why one group of people are "apostates" doesn't resolve anything. Especially since there are more unifying issues than differences. I would never tell anyone to hide what they believe, of course. If you don't believe in an idea or a way of life, be strong in stating it. No censorship or pretending. About your own self-education, leading to your change, yes, I understand what you're saying. I never meant to say that people should follow blindly their forebears. Only that most people, families, cultures, groups generally practice their traditions and religion with little changes in the immediate. You can always make a conscientious change. For example, one personal aspect I've posted a couple of times in the past is that, I myself, although raised very conservatively in Lagos, was not raised in a strongly Muslim practising way. At least, from the point of view of a strong adherence to the Quran and Hadiths. One of my favourite memories is of the short time I spent in Ile Ikewu, thanks to my grandfather. So, I often make an attempt to practice the way that I admire. The funny thing is, I was on the phone with my Dad, and mentioned to him, I was starting to do the 5 daily prayers regularly. His response was: I do not think there ever has been a day in my life when I prayed 5 times a day. lol. The next day I got a call from my mom asking me who are all these Muslim friends you made in America. It was right around the time of the Naija Muttalib boy. lmao. So observing Salah is now the same as being a fanatic? Imagine if I added the hijab to that. lol. Yes, whether we want to admit it or not, we have a class of Nigerians, especially amongst some Yoruba Muslims, who think religion should be in moderation and would rather let the Alfa read the Quran while we pay them money to pray for us. (There's a thread where Araboy mentioned something similar - conversions to Born Agains - and someone I quite respect was arguing that this is not so.) So, I am not a proponent of believing 100% what your parents believed. I only stated a statistic of why most people follow the religion they do.  I don't know if we can resolve Vedaxcool and your ongoing issues. But thanks for responding. I added a little personal detail, because I felt it was needed after the personal info you shared, and since I have also challenged Vedaxcool to an extent. Salaam. |
| Re: O Allah, You Be The Judge Between Us And Our People; They Decevd And Desertd Us by LagosShia: 5:54pm On Dec 24, 2011 |
Wa alaykom assalam Sister, thank you very much for the educative post.i really appreciate your time.may Allah reward you!Ameen!!! i am totally not against discussing in a very courteous and respectable way.afterall we are all muslims.and i do appreciate the fact that our commonalities are more than our differences.i dont doubt that at all.usually emotions run high especially when one feels cheated intellectually or being misled. i just want to quickly tocuh on the point you made about Iran being mostly Shia and Egypt mostly Sunni and the difficulty in changing identities.true,it is a difficult task for entire nations to switch,but deifinitely that is not impossible.what we are told to do is to propagate the truth.if people believe,good for them.if not,we have carried out our duty firstly as muslims and as Shia to give out the message. actually in early islamic history,egypt was ironically Shia and the seat of the Fatimid dynasty.the famous Al-Azhar institute was built by the Fatimids and named "Al-Azhar" in honor of the Prophet's (sa) daughter,Sayyida Fatima Az-Zahra (as),we Shia have profound love and admiration for.she is the daughter of our Prophet Muhammad (sa),the wife of our first Imam,Imam Ali (as),and the mother of our 11 Imams (as).the name is derived from her title "Az-Zahra".presently Al-Azhar is the highest sunni learning institution.that is so ironic.also,up to the 15th century,even though the presence of Shia-Islam in Iran (Persia) is old,Iran was majority Sunni.further changes have also taken place.the Phillppines was a muslim country before the spaniards colonized it.today it is catholic.sometimes change is peaceful while other times it is violent.in places like indonesia and malaysia,Islam was introduced peacefully as is the case in africa. as for the spread of Shia-Islam,it is a matter of time.we all happily repeat that islam is the fastest growing religion in the world.likewise i want to happily say that the Shia branch is the fastest growing in Islam. there are factors which have led to the slow growth of Shia Islam.from the first day of the Prophet's (sa) death,the Ahlul-Bayt (as) were persecuted and so were their followers.even today we witness the news where suicide bombers among the wahhabis blow up Ashura gatherings killing the Shia faithfuls.i need not remind of the ordeals of Fatima (as) and the tragedy of Karbala where Imam Hussain (as) was beheaded.it came to a point love for Imam Ali (as) and praise for him is a visa to die!!!this was under the reign of muawiya.even companions were not spared for their love of Ali (as).muawiya ensured that the cursing of Imam Ali (as) was instituted in friday sermons and anyone who held a favorable opinion of the Imam,was in danger.this continued throughout the reign of the Banu Umayyah and later on with the Abbassids.all of our Imams with the exception of the 12th were martyred.their followers were terrified.being Shia or holding any favorable view towards the Ahlul-Bayt (as) was dangerous because of the caliphs and "sunni" led governments.and we are told in the Quran to love the Ahlul-Bayt (as)!!!the situation in the middle east was one of division.the division there between sunni and shia does not show large difference in terms of numbers.in Iran,Bahrain,Azerbaijan,Lebanon,and Iraq,the Shia are more than sunnis.while mostly in the arabian peninsula you have majority sunni countries with sizeable shia populations.outside of the middle east the situation is very different.it used to be 100% sunni.when Islam was introduced,it was the "official" government version that was exported.africans or asians and the muslim parts of europe were not told what was being given to them is the sunni version.in addition,there was the spread of propaganda against the shia.they say the shia worship Ali (as),they believe their imams are "gods",they dont believe in the Prophet (sa) and many more things to scare unsuspecting muslims away from understanding plainly what is the matter.these were the conditions prevalent. however,things took a turn with the 1979 Islamic revolution in Shia Iran led by the charismatic leader,Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini.this was at a time the muslim world was still feeling humiliation from the 1967 and 1973 defeats in the hands of israel and its western sponsors.Ayatollah Khomeini gave life and hope to the muslim world.Saddam was incited by the west to launch a war against Iran and the rest is history.i dont want to divert into the political events.with the popularity of Ayatollah Khomeini,a Shia Muslim scholar,people within the Islamic world started to ask for knowledge on Shia Islam.that was the time and thereafter Shias started to appear in Nigeria and africa more than ever.even sunni and the wahhabis particularly were alarmed at this new development.then we had the propaganda that shia islam is a product of a jew by the name of abdullah ibn saba and we heard that shiism is a persian product that is invented to destroy islam from within and many more ridiculous statements funded and propagated by the saudis and their ulama against the shia. to cut the story short,things became brightest with the overthrow of Saddam in Iraq.Iraq happens to be an arab country with Shia majority.so this gave life to muslims and many came to realize that Shia Islam is not differnt from Islam but it is Islam that came from the Arabs, the Shia were empowered by Saddam's overthrowal.we started to hear alot about the Shia.we now know of Najaf,Karbala,Imam Hussain,Ashura and such that brings people to know about the Shia.then later the lebanon-israel conflict escalated and we knew of the Shia Hezbollah fighting israel and give them hard knocks.we knew that the Shia cannot be followers of a jew even if one is blind!!!we also know of Shia Iran's support for the palestinians who are majority sunnis. "Be an enemy to the oppressor and a helper to the oppressed" - Amir al-Mu'minin Ali ibn Abi Talib [a] "We are on the side of the oppressed which-ever pole they may be in. Palestinians are oppressed by the Israelis, therefore we side with them." - Ayatollah Khomeini [r] at present,Shia Islam is a wild fire burning in the hearts of muslims.the love for the Ahlul-Bayt (as) is raging in the hearts of the muslim believers.now you can find 10 million shias in egypt alone!!!you can find 2 million in senegal.2 million in somalia.over 10 million in our own nigeria. these are not my estimates.it is the sunni ulama that are shouting out at this trend.people are waking up.recently brother "ZhulFiqar" opened a thread about this development where he presented youtube videos of confessions by sunni scholars: https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-827432.0.html as for the issues with Vedaxcool,i do not have any grudge against anyone. there are members in this forum i disagree with and i dont accept sunnism anymore."Sweetnecta" is one example.but when it comes to defending Islam against the christians and the haters,we join hands together in the spirit of islamic brotherhood and defend our deen and our Prophet (sa).we can have our differences but we must respect ourselves.Vedaxcool has failed to realize that.you can no longer accuse a Shia of being a follower of a jew called Abdullah Ibn Saba and he would hide in fear. of such propaganda.we now can defend ourselves because we are here to stay.you have to engage us with respect and not with insults and propaganda statements aimed at infuriating and provoking us and causing more hurtful division. when we learn how to respect each other,then we can have peace and discuss without fighting.afterall our goal is for Islam to succeed. Wassalam. |
| Re: O Allah, You Be The Judge Between Us And Our People; They Decevd And Desertd Us by vedaxcool(m): 12:25am On Dec 27, 2011 |
isale_gan2: [size=14pt]In essence my starting out thread is hardly to get coverts, but to always show fatherhood, how it stands out from genuine Islam, regardless of whether they will accept the falseness of their path is of little value, as always the forum provides the avenue for sharing info. Unlike Lagosshai et al who believe people must accept his own version of any event, stories, theology, I simply state the my view and give reasons why it is the fact. As for being a sunni because of my parents, Nigeria's Muslims do no tend to think of Islam in the shia/sunni divide, rather we tend to see Islam from only the perspective of Sunnis and not really the sunni perspective, but they see it as the Islamic perspective. SO being a sunni is simply viewed as being a muslim, the only division came from movements with the ummah. This had been the condition until recently, when the Irannians started funding missionary activities. So as for being a Sunni because my parents are, well yes but equally no, I personally like to subject my beliefs to reasonable criticism, hence I do research time to time on what the core beliefs are. Even before I started using NL, I had already gone to anti Islamic website like answering Islam,politicalIslam etc, looking for genuine criticism, so also have I subjected to a reasonable extent my "sunni" beliefs to the criticism. so in essence veda is all about questions and finding answers, I have long discovered that if ever the shia version of event was to be true, then Islam will essentially be nothing more than a cocktail of multiplicity of failure, it would simply mean after the rasul underwent all sorts of humiliations and suffering to triumph, the men who basically witness everything had still little faith after all they saw, just as Christianity would remain a cocktail of confusion because of the level of failings Jesus disciples showed also Islam would have no better tale. As for my argument on Mutah, what was it really about? again it was a refutation of the false premise that people use to justify it, and you really do not know much about the shias, they use all sorts of tactics in fooling unsuspecting muslims, again regardless of whether they practice it or not, the truth remains it is a forbidden act, it is like entering a city where everyone takes fornication as allowed but majority do not practice it, it remains inconsequential whether they practice it or not, as long as we legitimize what is wrong it remains a grave sin! so again forum and knowledge sharing suffices. O defending Frosbel, i am deeply amazed at your statements as at no time did I defend his actions, what I wrote clearly questioned insulting peoples parents on account of their wards behavior, that was what I wrote, no matte what a full grown adult does, he remains entirely culpable for his actions, like I indicated it was indeed very disgraceful for anyone going to the extent of insulting his parents or even calling him a bastard for certain comments, such comments are unislamic and very disappointing when done during Ramadan! and finally, the likes of lagoshia have been in the habit of always starting up threads that actually insults the beliefs that Islam is founded upon![/size] |
| Re: O Allah, You Be The Judge Between Us And Our People; They Decevd And Desertd Us by tpia5: 1:00am On Dec 27, 2011 |
^Like i pointed out before, different periods in Islam. |
| Re: O Allah, You Be The Judge Between Us And Our People; They Decevd And Desertd Us by tpia5: 1:04am On Dec 27, 2011 |
Lagoshia why do you spell aleikum as alaykum. |
| Re: O Allah, You Be The Judge Between Us And Our People; They Decevd And Desertd Us by LagosShia: 1:09am On Dec 27, 2011 |
[b]"Vedaxcool",it has being really long since i decided to ignore your posts.but since you sound a bit more calm and trying to reason thanks to the words of aid by "isale",i want to pose only 3 issues to you,and i want you to sincerely answer them if you truly believe in Islam as the true religion of Almighty God who made you: 1.) in your rightful state of mind,do you really think anyone on earth who is educated would believe it when a Nigerian says that "i'm muslim" and he says "i'm neither sunni or shia"?how can one claim to "only be muslim" when he is practicing one version of islam rather than the other? 2.) you said that:
as a person who has read about the conflicts of the companions among themselves and what happened at saqifa banu saeda and how they killed themselves in battles,do you agree that many of them their actions were not innocent and go contrary to the teachings of Islam and the examples of Islam the Prophet Muhammad (sa) set and taught them?would you live in denial of historical facts in order to portray "total success" or would you accept the facts and live with the truth? if previous companions of prophets can go astray and Muhammad (sa) himself saw that coming for his own companions,then why do you have to turn a blind eye to what happened?why portray all of them as angels?the shia version may look like "failure".but in essence it is total success when we believers admit and face the reality.the Quran itself does not hold the Prophet (sa) accountable for the belief or lack of it or actions of people or his contemporaries: 16:82 But if they turn away from you, (O Prophet remember that) your only duty is a clear delivery of the Message (entrusted to you). 6:107 Yet if God had so willed, they would not have ascribed Divinity to aught besides him; hence, We have not made you their keeper, nor are you (of your own choice) a guardian over them. 17:53, 54 And tell my servants that they should speak in a most kindly manner (unto those who do not share their beliefs). Verily, Satan is always ready to stir up discord between men; for verily; Satan is mans foe , Hence, We have not sent you (Unto men O Prophet) with power to determine their Faith. 88:21, 22; also see 24:54 And so, (O Prophet!) exhort them your task is only to exhort; you cannot compel them to believe. 3.) regarding the issue of mut'ah marriage.in sunni hadith books,the most respected books,you find hadiths where it was said that umar forbade mut'ah marriage.you also find hadiths where mut'ah was permitted by the Prophet (sa).and ofcourse you have hadiths which say that the Prophet (sa) forbade mut'ah marriage and we shia believe that is not true and those hadiths are fabricated as they even contradict themselves.those are 3 reports saying the Prophet (sa) himself disallowed it later on.but the many reports point that umar did and it was permitted by the Prophet (sa) himself. my questions on mut'ah: how do you feel as a sunni when you refer to mut'ah marriage as "pros.titution" and indecent and later on read that the Prophet (sa) permitted it in his lifetime,even if he later forbade it? please dont use alcohol as an analogy.the Prophet (sa) met people drinking and the revelation gradually forbade alcohol by first condemning it before the outright ban.he never encouraged it at all or permitted it as he permitted mut'ah.but the Prophet (sa) did not meet people performing mut'ah and even if he did he encouraged it.how do you feel that your Prophet (sa) encourage what you the believer regard as "pros.titution"? and finally what do you tell yourself regarding the hadiths in the most respected sunni books that tell us that mut'ah was performed in the days of the Prophet (sa) and also tell us that it was umar that banned it?how does your mind settle these issues fairly? i want your sincere answers and i will not bother you to argue or debate.i see no need to do that with you if you are truthful to yourself and you try to be reasonable and not insulting me and others as "reply".[/b] |
| Re: O Allah, You Be The Judge Between Us And Our People; They Decevd And Desertd Us by LagosShia: 1:22am On Dec 27, 2011 |
tpia@: i dont think it really makes any differnce or it does not really matter.it still conveys the same intention of greeting.i just feel "alaykom" or "alaikom" is closer to the arabic pronunciation than "aleikum". tpia@:we are actually discussing the same period:the immedite aftermath of the Prophet's (sa) demise. |
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