Holy Quran 52:1-12
"By the mount.And [by] a Book inscribed.In parchment spread open.And [by] the frequented House.And [by] the heaven raised high.And [by] the sea filled with burning fire.Indeed, the punishment of your Lord will occur.Of it there is no preventer.On the Day the heaven will sway with circular motion.And the mountains will pass on, departing -Then woe, that Day, to the deniers,Who are in [empty] discourse amusing themselves".

Not long ago, a phenomenon in the form cracks in the seabed that produced lavas was discovered, and these lavas caused the water to boil until its temperature reaches over a thousand degree Celcius. Even though the temperature of the lavas is extremely high, it could not make the sea water vaporize and even though the amount of sea water is overwhelmingly huge, it could not extinguish the fire.

When the Ever-Glorious Qur'an was revealed, the Arabs could not perceive the connotation and the meaning of swearing by the burning sea, for the verb "burn" means to destroy or damage by fire. Furthermore, fire and water are bitter enemies as water extinguishes fire and heat vaporizes water. How is it possible then for such opponents to live together? How is it possible for opposites to unite and none of them overpowers the other?

It was something irrational, illogical and unreasonable when this verse was read by Rasulullah SAW more than 1400 ago, to the Jahiliyyah people. How could it be possible that fire is alight in the water? How could it be possible that the sea which is cold in attribute becomes hot? For this reason, the Jahiliyyah people denied the verses of Allah and said that Muhamad was just a poet.

The Prophet (sa) never sailed over the sea during his lifetime, that so what obliged him to talk about an unseen matter, except that Almighty Allah ordered him to do so. Almighty Allah knew through His Comprehensive Knowledge that someday man would discover this amazing scientific fact, so He mentioned it in the Ever-Glorious Qur'an and informed His honorable Prophet about it, so that it would remain a sign asserting that the Ever-Glorious Qur'an is Allah's Words and His final Prophet's words were revealed to him. Allah, the Almighty, says:

"He (Muhammad ) does not speak of (his own) desire." [Holy Quran 53:3]

Amazing Scientific Proof
The promises of Allah are always true. The words of Allah are always true. Today, the scientists admitted that there are certainly many volcanoes in the oceans. In fact, the numbers are estimated to be even more than those that are in the mainland. They estimated that 70% of all the volcanoes on earth are found to be under the ocean covering a distance of 64,000 kilometers, which is termed as the "Ring of Fire" that includes the area of Japan, Tonga, etc.

Following World War II, scientists roamed oceans and seas searching for some minerals whose reservoirs were near to be exhausted because of the extravagant materialistic human civilization. They were astonished to find that many volcanic mountain chains extended throughout all oceans along thousands of kilometers and they called them the Mid-ocean Mountains. By studying these oceanic mountain chains, it became clear that they were formed as a result of violent volcanic eruptions through a huge net of deep faults that split the rocky crust and completely surrounded it. These faults were mainly centered on the ocean floor.

Also, it became evident that this net of faults extends to more than 64,000 kilometers and their depth reaches about 65 kilometers penetrating the rocky crust and reaching the weak layer known as the zone of weakness (the asthenosphere). In the asthenosphere, the rocks are in a partially molten state with relatively high density and viscosity. The hot currents drive these enormous tons of rocks to the ocean floor and to some sea bottoms such as the Red Sea where the temperature exceeds 10,00oC. These rocks are estimated to amount to millions of tons pushing the ocean water to the right and left, in a phenomenon known by scientists as "the phenomenon of expanding and re-forming the sea and ocean floors". The areas resulting form the process of expansion are filled with this magma, which leads to fire on the ocean floors and some sea bottoms.


Mid-Oceanic Faults
One of the phenomena that scientists have failed to find an answer to is how the water of oceans and seas cannot put out the magma! Moreover, how is it that this magma, in spite of its extreme temperature, is unable to vaporize seas and oceans?

This balance between the opposites: fire and water on the ocean floors (including the South Atlantic Ocean and the Arctic Ocean), and some sea bottoms, is a clear witness to the Unlimited Power of Allah.

In a project to employ the mineral wealth at the bottom of the Red Sea, where volcanic eruptions violently take place and enrich the sediments of its sea floor, a research ship threw down a metal hook to obtain samples of the clay. When this metal hook got out of the water, no one could touch it because of its extreme heat. When they opened it, they found that the temperature of the clay and hot vapor exceeds 300o C. Therefore, the scientists came to know that the volcanic eruptions in the ocean floors, and some sea bottoms greatly exceed all those found on land. Also, it was proven with clear-cut evidence that Almighty Allah brought out all water from the land. Moreover, the magma in the asthenosphere, and below it, contains a huge amount of water that exceeds all that is found on the surface of the earth.

Thus, we see the magnificence of this honorable hadith in which the Prophet SAW stated and clarified some facts about our planet more than 1400 years ago, though the Jahiliyyah people denied him at that time. Strangely, man was (only) able to reach these facts a few years ago.

Was Prophet Muhammad a scientist? Was Muhammad a deep-sea diver or a researcher studying ocean-bottom substances? What equipments were available on Prophet Muhammad that allowed him to declare that there were volcanic eruptions under the sea? NO! All those are the kalam (words) of Allah. Allah swears with what is unknown to mankind at that time (the Jahiliyyah era) and what is just known to mankind because the Qur’an is not only for the ummah of 1400 years ago, but also for the ummah of all time, until that deciding moment arrives.


Flowing molten lava in the bottom of the sea, we can see that it heats the water; therefore it is a burning sea as God said.



References:
1- Pacific Ocean. Britannica Student Library. Student Encyclopedia CD-ROM.
2- Scientists Catch Underwater Volcanic Eruption "In Action" in Pacific Ocean Depths, The National Science Foundation, November 27, 2006.   


Source:the above write-up was made possible through excerpts from different Islamic websites.

Hmmm. It is a natural geographical phenomenon

What is scientific about such a vague description? The man didnt even say burning rocks (Which would have more aptly described the situation) or the sea filled with burning rocks (a better possibility). He was off target by a wide margin.

Em what of the Quran's Flat Earth Theory (FET)? was that scientific too?

So much for Chief Scientist Allah. He may have fooled Meccans BUT welcome to the 21st century where no questions are left unasked


Does Earth Spread Out Like Carpet (flat)?

Quran 15: 19 And the earth We have spread out (like a carpet); set thereon Mountains firm and immovable;

Quran 78: 6-7 Have We not made the earth as a wide expanse, And the mountains as pegs (anchor)?


Does Sun Rotate Around the Earth?

Quran 31: 29 Seest thou not that Allah merges Night into Day and He merges Day into Night; That He has subjected the sun and moon (to His law), each running its course for a term (time) appointed.

Quran 21: 33 It is He who created The Night and Day, And the Sun and Moon; each of them Swim (float) along in its own course.

Why Allah Created Stars!

Quran gives us further scientific knowledge by telling us that the stars were created by Allah as missiles to throw at the devils:

Quran 67: 5 And We have (from of old) adorned the lowest heaven (sky) with lamps, and We have made such (Lamps as) missiles to drive away Satans…

Quran 37: 6-8 We have indeed decorated the lower heaven (sky) with beauty (in) the stars, (for beauty) and for guard against all obstinate rebellious Satans. So they should not strain their ears in the direction of the Exalted Assembly but be cast away from every side.


A resting place for Sun!?

Quran 36: 38 And the sun runneth on unto a resting place for him. That is the measuring of the Mighty, the Wise.
Quran 36: 39 And for the moon We have appointed mansions till she return like an old shrivelled palm leaf.
Quran 36: 40 It is not for Sun to overtake the moon, nor doth the night outstrip the day. They float each in an orbit.

the Sun sets in a muddy spring?

Quran 18: 86 Till, when he (the traveller Zul-qarnain) reached the setting-place of the Sun, he found it going down into a muddy spring…

Quran 18: 90 Till, when he reached the rising-place of the Sun, he found it rising on a people for whom We had appointed no shelter from it.


A resting place for Sun!?

Quran 36: 38 And the sun runneth on unto a resting place for him. That is the measuring of the Mighty, the Wise.
Quran 36: 39 And for the moon We have appointed mansions till she return like an old shrivelled palm leaf.

brentkruge:

Does Earth Spread Out Like Carpet (flat)?

Quran 15: 19 And the earth We have spread out (like a carpet); set thereon Mountains firm and immovable;

Quran 78: 6-7 Have We not made the earth as a wide expanse, And the mountains as pegs (anchor)?

1. The surface of the earth i.e. earth’s crust is less than 30 miles in thickness and is very thin as compared to the radius of the earth which is about 3750 miles. The deeper layers of the earth are very hot, fluid and hostile to any form of life. The earth’s crust is a solidified shell on which we can live. The Qur’an rightly refers to it like a carpet spread out, so that we can travel along its roads and paths.

2. Not a single verse of the Qur’an says that the earth is flat. The Qur’an only compares the earth’s crust with a carpet. Some people seem to think that carpet can only be put on an absolute flat surface. It is possible to spread a carpet on a large sphere such as the earth. It can easily be demonstrated by taking a huge model of the earth’s globe covering it with a carpet. Carpet is generally put on a surface, which is not very comfortable to walk on. The Quran describes the earth crust as a carpet, without which human beings would not be able to survive because of the hot, fluid and hostile environment beneath it. The Qur’an is thus not only logical, it is mentioning a scientific fact that was discovered by geologists centuries later.

3. What earth is the Qur'an talking about? The Earth as "the planet" or the earth as "the crust"? This is clearly talking about  the crust, The "Pangea Supercontinent".

The mountain as Pegs is clearly another phenomenon known as isostasis: Geology 100 http://dl.ccc.cccd.edu/classes/telecourses/geology100/IntroLecture2.htm ( a non muslim reference)

I quote:

"Tall land masses like mountains have huge roots pushing down into the mantle to stabilize them. The taller the mountains the deeper the roots push into the mantle."

brentkruge:



Quran 31: 29 Seest thou not that Allah merges Night into Day and He merges Day into Night; That He has subjected the sun and moon (to His law), each running its course for a term (time) appointed.

Quran 21: 33 It is He who created The Night and Day, And the Sun and Moon; each of them Swim (float) along in its own course.

The sun and the moon have their own course,  Where does it say it moves round  the earth? It is a scientific fact that the sun orbits the milky way,

http://www.universetoday.com/18028/sun-orbit/
http://hypertextbook.com/facts/2002/StacyLeong.shtml

So yes the Quran is right again, It looks like the sun does have its own course.

brentkruge:


Why Allah Created Stars!

Quran gives us further scientific knowledge by telling us that the stars were created by Allah as missiles to throw at the devils:

Quran 67: 5 And We have (from of old) adorned the lowest heaven (sky) with lamps, and We have made such (Lamps as) missiles to drive away Satans…

Quran 37: 6-8  We have indeed decorated the lower heaven (sky) with beauty (in) the stars, (for beauty) and for guard against all obstinate rebellious Satans. So they should not strain their ears in the direction of the Exalted Assembly but be cast away from every side.

There are a number of interpretations to this:
a. The Stars are not stationary and float in their orbits and move at rapid speeds and can definitely be used as drive away Jinn (most likely meaning)
b. Some say it is the meteors that drive away the Jinns (ibn kathir)
c. It is often regarded as a metaphor
                                                                         
Either way, unless you can see the Jinn, you can not make any informed statement on that.

brentkruge:


A resting place for Sun!?

Quran 36: 38 And the sun runneth on unto a resting place for him. That is the measuring of the Mighty, the Wise.
Quran 36: 39 And for the moon We have appointed mansions till she return like an old shrivelled palm leaf.
Quran 36: 40  It is not for Sun to overtake the moon, nor doth the night outstrip the day. They float each in an orbit.

Yusuf Ali Translation:

Q. 36.
38. And the sun runs his course for a period determined for him: that is the decree of [Him], the Exalted in Might, the All-Knowing.
39. And the Moon,- We have measured for her mansions [to traverse] till she returns like the old [and withered] lower part of a date-stalk.
40. It is not permitted to the Sun to catch up the Moon, nor can the Night outstrip the Day: Each [just] swims along in [its own] orbit [according to Law].

The Arabic word used here is mustaqarr, which means a place or time that is determined. Thus the Qur’aan says that the sun runs towards a determined
place, and will do so only up to a pre-determined period of time – meaning that it will end or extinguish.

Unless you think the sun will last forever, this is accurate.

Again, another fail,

brentkruge:


the Sun sets in a muddy spring?

Quran 18: 86 Till, when he (the traveller Zul-qarnain) reached the setting-place of the Sun, he found it going down into a muddy spring…

Quran 18: 90 Till, when he reached the rising-place of the Sun, he found it rising on a people for whom We had appointed no shelter from it.

Even the earliest muslims did not translate the verses the way you just did.

The general agreement of the translations of this verse is that Zul-Qarnain saw the sun setting into the horizon that it looks like it is setting into a body of water (sea) that looks murky-looking. That this verse was never taken literally was not alien in the understanding of the early commentators.

In his famous commentary known as Al-Game’ Le Ahkam-el-Qur’an, Imam Al-Qurtubi (died 671 AH/1273 CE) wrote about this verse:

    It is not meant by reaching the rising or setting of the sun that he reached its body and touched it because it runs in the sky around the earth without touching it and it is too great to enter any spring on earth. It is so much larger than earth. But it is meant that he reached the end of populated land east and west, so he found it – according to his vision – setting in a spring of a murky water like we watch it in smooth land as if it enters inside the land. That is why He said, “he found it rising on a people for whom we had provided no covering protection against the sun.” (Holy Qur’an 18:90) and did not mean that it touches or adheres to them; but they are the first to rise on. Probably this spring is a part of the sea and the sun sets behind, with or at it, so the proposition takes the place of an adjective and God knows best.

Imam Fakhr-ud-Deen Ar-Razi wrote in his commentary on the same verse, that:

    When Zul-Qarnain reached the furthest west and no populated land was left, he found the sun as if it sets in a dark spring, but it is not in reality. The same when sea traveler sees the sun as if it sets in the sea if he cannot see the shore while in reality it sets behind the sea. 1

Imam Ibn Kathir (701-774 AH/1302-1373 CE) wrote in his commentary about this verse, that:

    “Until, when he reached the setting of the sun” means he followed a certain way till he reached the furthest land he could go from the west. As for reaching the setting of the sun in the sky, it is impossible. What narrators and story tellers say that he walked for a period of time in earth while the sun was setting behind him is unreal, and most of it is from myths of People of the Book and inventions of their liars. “he found it set in a spring of murky water” means he saw the sun according to his vision setting in the ocean and this is the same with everyone ending to the shore seeing as if the sun sets inside it (i.e. the ocean).

So who is the one that is actually “intellectually dishonest as well as a bit silly”?

Note: The Quran is not a scientific book but a book of signs. But you will be hard-pressed to find scientific errors in it

Thanks.

It is only an idiot who will not be stricken by LagosShia's post. Those concepts are not new to me but putting them in the context of 'The burning sea' transmitted by a man who couldn't read and write is absolutely brilliant.

Somebody said burning rocks- guy give it a break and appreciate God's magnificence!

maclatunji:

It is only an who will not be stricken by LagosShia's post. Those concepts are not new to me but putting them in the context of 'The burning sea' transmitted by a man who couldn't read and write is absolutely brilliant.

Somebody said burning rocks- guy give it a break and appreciate God's magnificence!

Illusion grandeur !!

frosbel:

Illusion grandeur !!

"Having hearts wherewith they understand not, and having eyes wherewith they see not."
-the Holy Quran (7:179)

brentkruge:

So much for Chief Scientist Allah. He may have fooled Meccans BUT welcome to the 21st century where no questions are left unasked


Does Earth Spread Out Like Carpet (flat)?

Quran 15: 19 And the earth We have spread out (like a carpet); set thereon Mountains firm and immovable;

Quran 78: 6-7 Have We not made the earth as a wide expanse, And the mountains as pegs (anchor)?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dqaDyT9u6ts

Does Sun Rotate Around the Earth?

Quran 31: 29 Seest thou not that Allah merges Night into Day and He merges Day into Night; That He has subjected the sun and moon (to His law), each running its course for a term (time) appointed.

Quran 21: 33 It is He who created The Night and Day, And the Sun and Moon; each of them Swim (float) along in its own course.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9UiN6I6pMiw&feature=related


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9UiN6I6pMiw&feature=related

Why Allah Created Stars!

Quran gives us further scientific knowledge by telling us that the stars were created by Allah as missiles to throw at the devils:

Quran 67: 5 And We have (from of old) adorned the lowest heaven (sky) with lamps, and We have made such (Lamps as) missiles to drive away Satans…

Quran 37: 6-8 We have indeed decorated the lower heaven (sky) with beauty (in) the stars, (for beauty) and for guard against all obstinate rebellious Satans. So they should not strain their ears in the direction of the Exalted Assembly but be cast away from every side.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lMThtZu3fQ4


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2uZnjaypsjc


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=67cnMia1idM

A resting place for Sun!?

Quran 36: 38 And the sun runneth on unto a resting place for him. That is the measuring of the Mighty, the Wise.
Quran 36: 39 And for the moon We have appointed mansions till she return like an old shrivelled palm leaf.
Quran 36: 40 It is not for Sun to overtake the moon, nor doth the night outstrip the day. They float each in an orbit.

"the resting place place for the sun" or "its stopping point"="the solar apex" detrmined by Allah in billion years according to scientific calculations.

Holy Quran 36:38-40
And the sun runs [on course] toward its stopping point. That is the determination of the Exalted in Might, the Knowing.
And the moon - We have determined for it phases, until it returns[b] [appearing] like[/b] the old date stalk.
It is not allowable for the sun to reach the moon, nor does the night overtake the day, but each, in an orbit,is swimming.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=47nQ51ePtSw

Holy Quran 21:33
And it is He who created the night and the day and the sun and the moon; all [heavenly bodies] in an orbit are swimming.

Holy Quran 21:104
The Day when We will fold the heaven like the folding of a [written] sheet for the records. As We began the first creation, We will repeat it. [That is] a promise binding upon Us. Indeed, We will do it.

the Sun sets in a muddy spring?

Quran 18: 86 Till, when he (the traveller Zul-qarnain) reached the setting-place of the Sun, he found it going down into a muddy spring…

Quran 18: 90 Till, when he reached the rising-place of the Sun, he found it rising on a people for whom We had appointed no shelter from it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n8R2rVgD2ok

LagosShia:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dqaDyT9u6ts


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9UiN6I6pMiw&feature=related


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9UiN6I6pMiw&feature=related


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lMThtZu3fQ4


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2uZnjaypsjc


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=67cnMia1idM


"the resting place place for the sun" or "its stopping point"="the solar apex" detrmined by Allah in billion years according to scientific calculations.

Holy Quran 36:38-40
And the sun runs [on course] toward its stopping point. That is the determination of the Exalted in Might, the Knowing.
And the moon - We have determined for it phases, until it returns[b] [appearing] like[/b] the old date stalk.
It is not allowable for the sun to reach the moon, nor does the night overtake the day, but each, in an orbit,is swimming.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=47nQ51ePtSw

Holy Quran 21:33
And it is He who created the night and the day and the sun and the moon; all [heavenly bodies] in an orbit are swimming.

Holy Quran 21:104
The Day when We will fold the heaven like the folding of a [written] sheet for the records. As We began the first creation, We will repeat it. [That is] a promise binding upon Us. Indeed, We will do it.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n8R2rVgD2ok

LagosShia , now you are annoying me

Can't you explain these events yourself without resorting to copy and paste from the Internet

frosbel:

LagosShia , now you are annoying me

Can't you explain these events yourself without resorting to copy and paste from the Internet

it was not meant to annoy you "angel frosbel".

it is annoying for me too when i have to repeat myself and when there are satanic forces who keep presenting lies.so you can do me a favor by warning him too.

LagosShia:

"Having hearts wherewith they understand not, and having eyes wherewith they see not."
-the Holy Quran (7:179)

Isnt someone not tired of the constant copying the bible?

^^ When did the Quran become the Bibles? is there any sense in comparing the Quran with the Bibles? Which Bible?

If Allah is all wise, the description of the sun and the moon, among others, would have very clear without all this long explanation. He only got what was obvious, that the moon and the sun moves from the east to the west in an arc. The rest he conjured up poetry to hide his ignorance.

Mohammed thought the earth was flat like an arabian carpet, anchored by mountains (as you would weight down a spread carpet with rocks against the dusty Arabian wind).

If Allah had spoken the truth to Mohammed he would cut the long story short: The Earth is ROUND.

He thought the sun travels across the earth (It is He who created The Night and Day, And the Sun and Moon; each of them Swim (float) along in its own course.) If he knew better he would say, quite simply, the earth runs around the sun. Again he hides his ignorance in the poetry of the Quran allowing you guys to sweat it out explaining the unexplainable 


And the sun runneth on unto a resting place for him. That is the measuring of the Mighty, the Wise. 

The Sun runneth nowhere.  He saw the east-west movement and conjured his story else if he knew better he would say precisely so

.Quran 36: 39 And for the moon We have appointed mansions till she return like an old shrivelled palm leaf WTF

Till, when he (the traveller Zul-qarnain) reached the setting-place of the Sun, he found it going down into a muddy spring… the  Sun doesn't rest and moreso NOT in a muddy spring. If Mohammed knew better he would say the earth goes around the sun. If he thought it was in the sea, its not a muddy pool. The sea aint muddy.

I cant even go on! Guys, whats the Koran, a riddle or something?

Its really silly and intellectually dishonest to try to twist, turn and force the vague rhymes of the Koran to known scientific fact. What do you guys think people are? Kids? Phur!

Q. 2:22

WHO made the earth a bed for you, and the heaven a roof, and caused water to come down from the clouds and therewith brought forth fruits for your sustenance; so do not set up equals to ALLAH, while you know. Sher Ali

Commentary:

,  who has made the earth AS FLAT and comfortable as a bed and placed upon it mountains standing firm,  (Tafsir Ibn Kathir (Part 1), Surah Al-Fatihah Surah Al-Baqarah, ayat 1 to 141, abridged by Sheikh Muhammad Nasib Ar-Rafa’i [Al-Firdous Ltd., London, 1998 second edition], pp. 79-80)





Q. 15:19

And the earth have WE spread out, and set therein firm mountains and cause every thing to grow therein in proper proportion. Sher Ali

We are told in the Tafsir al-Jalalayn that:

And the earth We have stretched it out, SPREAD IT FLAT, and cast therein firm mountains, lest it should sway beneath its inhabitants, and caused to grow therein every kind of balanced thing, [every kind of thing] known and determined.




AL-TABARI

Here are the traditions which renowned Muslim historian al-Tabari transmitted regarding the meaning of surah 68:1. He basically repeats what Ibn Kathir wrote.

Someone might say: If it is as you have described, namely, that God created the earth before the heaven, then what is the meaning of the statement of Ibn ‘Abbas told all of you by Wasil b. ‘Abd al-A‘la al-Asadi- Muhammad b. Fudayl- al-A‘mash- Abu Zabyan- Ibn ‘Abbas: The first thing God created is the Pen. God then said to it: Write!, whereupon the Pen asked: What shall I write, my lord! God replied: Write what is predestined! He continued: And the Pen proceeded to (write) whatever is predestined and gong to be to the Coming of the Hour. God then lifted up the water vapor and split the heavens off from it. Then God created THE FISH (nun), AND THE EARTH WAS SPREAD OUT UPON ITS BACK. The fish became agitated, with the result that the earth was shaken up. It was steadied BY MEANS OF THE MOUNTAINS, for they indeed proudly (tower) over the earth.

WHAT NONSENSE

However, there are plenty of passages in the Qur'an that are clearly wrong in scientific terms, and those certainly need to be considered in this discussion as well. This short article will look at one such verse of the Qur'an making a statement about the flight of birds:

Do they not look at the birds, held poised in the midst of (the air and) the sky?
Nothing holds them up but (the power of) God.
Verily in this are signs for those who believe. Surah 16:79 Yusuf Ali

The author of the Qur'an tells us that birds are a sign to encourage belief (in the existence and power of Allah) since there is no natural reason why they are suspended between the earth and the sky. It is only by Allah's miraculous power that birds are able to fly and do not fall down to earth.

A couple of questions to consider:

Are airplanes also held in the air only by the power of God? Is every plane that makes it to its destination another unexplainable miracle?

The Quran implies that semen production takes place in the kidney or back area:

"Now let man but think from what he is created! He is created from a drop emitted - Proceeding from between the backbone and the ribs:" S. 86:5-7

So much for Scientific Allah

There are over 30 scientific related quotes from the Qur'an which showed Prophet Mohammed made wild guesses, mixed in some poetry to sway his followers. He was way off the marks folks.

brentkruge:

If Allah is all wise, the description of the sun and the moon, among others, would have very clear without all this long explanation. He only got what was obvious, that the moon and the sun moves from the east to the west in an arc. The rest he conjured up poetry to hide his ignorance.

obviously,you believe what you like to imagine.what is not so clear in the verses saying the sun and the move both move in orbits?

you also said the sun is moving to determined station based on the verse in chapter 36.i brought for you the concept of "solar apex".

the fact is science develops gradually.and people get new ideas continuosly.and the verses are clearly stated.

Mohammed thought the earth was flat like an arabian carpet, anchored by mountains (as you would weight down a spread carpet with rocks against the dusty Arabian wind).

If Allah had spoken the truth to Mohammed he would cut the long story short: The Earth is ROUND.

arabian carpets? i dont think there were any in the days of the Prophet (sa).

and this is a repeated allegation already treated.

He thought the sun travels across the earth (It is He who created The Night and Day, And the Sun and Moon; each of them Swim (float) along in its own course.) If he knew better he would say, quite simply, the earth runs around the sun. Again he hides his ignorance in the poetry of the Quran allowing you guys to sweat it out explaining the unexplainable


And the sun runneth on unto a resting place for him. That is the measuring of the Mighty, the Wise.

The Sun runneth nowhere. He saw the east-west movement and conjured his story else if he knew better he would say precisely so

.Quran 36: 39 And for the moon We have appointed mansions till she return like an old shrivelled palm leaf WTF

repetititions.

Till, when he (the traveller Zul-qarnain) reached the setting-place of the Sun, he found it going down into a muddy spring… the Sun doesn't rest and moreso NOT in a muddy spring. If Mohammed knew better he would say the earth goes around the sun. If he thought it was in the sea, its not a muddy pool. The sea aint muddy.

repetition.

I cant even go on! Guys, whats the Koran, a riddle or something?

Its really silly and intellectually dishonest to try to twist, turn and force the vague rhymes of the Koran to known scientific fact. What do you guys think people are? Kids? Phur!

you are not a kid.it would be insulting to kids for you to be accused of being one.you are dumb.

brentkruge:

The Quran implies that Fluid production takes place in the kidney or back area:

"Now let man but think from what he is created! He is created from a drop emitted - Proceeding from between the backbone and the ribs:" S. 86:5-7

So much for Scientific Allah

There are over 30 scientific related quotes from the Qur'an which showed Prophet Mohammed made wild guesses, mixed in some poetry to sway his followers. He was way off the marks folks.

Question: Allah says: "So let man see from what he is created. He is created from a water gushing forth - proceeding from between the backbone and the ribs" [Sûrah al-Târiq: 5-7]

This verse states that sperm originates from between the ribs and the spine. The problem is that it is a known fact sperm is created in the testicles. What is more disturbing is that this same idea was espoused in ancient Greece by Hippocrates about 1100 years before the time of Muhammad (peace be upon him).

Please clarify this matter for me.


Answered by the Scientific Research Committee - IslamToday.net

It is inconceivable that the true word of Allah could ever contradict scientific fact, since the universe is Allah's creation, and Allah fully knows what He created. A Muslim, when faced with what appears to be a contradiction between the Qur'ân and a scientific fact knows there can only be two possibilities:
1. That which is being construed as a scientific "fact" is not in actuality a fact.

2. The verse that is being construed as being in conflict with science is being misinterpreted, misapplied, or misunderstood.
Any claim being made that there is a contradiction between science and the Qur'ân has to be evaluated individually. The factuality of the scientific claim needs to be assessed as well as the true meaning of the verse that is supposedly at variance with it.

It is an inarguable fact that sperm is created in the testicles. Therefore, we must make sure we are understanding these verses correctly. We must look carefully at the verses to ascertain exactly what the Qur'ân is saying and - more importantly - what it is not saying.

There are some serious problems with this translation and the assumptions made therein.

To begin with, these verses say nothing whatsoever about the creation of sperm or the creation of anything else. Consequently, they do not inform us of where the creation of sperm takes place. They merely say that the substances under discussion come out form the places being described. The word being used is "yakhruj" meaning "to exit, leave, come out, emerge". It in no way implies anything related to creation or origination.

Secondly, the phrase "mâ' dâfiq" (emitted fluid) is not restricted in meaning to sperm but is used in Arabic for both the sperm and the egg. Ibn Kathîr, in his commentary on this verse, writes: "It emanates from the man and the woman, and with Allah's permission, the child comes forth as a product of both."

Thirdly, the words translated as "backbone" (sulb) and "ribs" (tarâ'ib) are not understood in Arabic to belong to the same person. Arabs understand the "sulb" to refer to a part of the male body and the "tarâ'ib" to a part of the female. Ibn Kathîr states: "It refers to the 'sulb' of the man and the 'tarâ'ib' of the woman, which is the area of her chest." He then quotes this interpretation on the authority of the Prophet's companion Ibn `Abbâs. This same understanding is given in all the major classical works of Qur'anic commentary.

Moreover, the word "sulb" should not necessarily be translated as "backbone". This word has many possible meanings and backbone is only one of them. It is also quite commonly used to mean the loins of a man. This is how it is used elsewhere in the Qur'ân. Allah says: "Prohibited to you (for marriage) are.wives of your sons proceeding from your loins (aslâb, the plural of sulb)." [Sûrah al-Nisâ': 23] There can be no problem with sperm coming out from the area of a man's loins.

Likewise, when we look at the word being translated as "ribs" (tarâ'ib, the plural of tarîbah) we find that it is used linguistically for the general are of the chest and the abdomen. In al-Qâmûs, the famous classical dictionary of al-Fayrûzabâdî it is defined as a number of things: "the bones of the chest or what comes after the two collarbones or what comes between the collarbones and the chest or the four ribs to the right of the chest or the four ribs to the left of the chest or the hands, eyes and feet or the collarbones." Some Companions of the Prophet (peace be upon him) and some Successors had also provided many possible meanings, like the lower ribs and al-Dahhâk's statement that it is the area between the breasts and feet and the eyes (a mere indication of centrality).

This word clearly has a very broad and diverse definition. It is so ambiguous a word that the Companions of the Prophet (peace be upon him) could not give it a precise definition. Scholars of Qur'ânic commentary have consistently admitted to there being at least three different possible meanings for this word as it is used in the verse. This is an admission that they do not know for certain what the tarâ'ib are, except that they generally agree it refers to an area of the woman's body. It can apply to any region nearing the ribcage. Therefore, the area of the ovaries, the fallopian tubes, or the uterus can easily fit into the general area that is being indicated by these verses.

What we are dealing with here is a gross error in translation and not a scientific error at all.



Source: http://www.islamtoday.com/show_detail_section.cfm?q_id=11&main_cat_id=31

brentkruge:

However, there are plenty of passages in the Qur'an that are clearly wrong in scientific terms, and those certainly need to be considered in this discussion as well. This short article will look at one such verse of the Qur'an making a statement about the flight of birds:

Do they not look at the birds, held poised in the midst of (the air and) the sky?
Nothing holds them up but (the power of) God.
Verily in this are signs for those who believe. Surah 16:79 Yusuf Ali

The author of the Qur'an tells us that birds are a sign to encourage belief (in the existence and power of Allah) since there is no natural reason why they are suspended between the earth and the sky. It is only by Allah's miraculous power that birds are able to fly and do not fall down to earth.

A couple of questions to consider:

Are airplanes also held in the air only by the power of God? Is every plane that makes it to its destination another unexplainable miracle?

now this is very easy and just a few lines should make justice to the doubt.

the bird is held up in the sky by the power of God according to the Quran.

so what about planes?

it is only a blind person that cannot see the similarity between the structure of a plane and that of a bird or an insect.

if you consider the design closely and the functions of the two,then you'd definitely know that God has placed certain laws in nature and created the birds in certain ways to hold them up.so indeed it is the power of God and the science He has applied that keeps them up.

you can watch this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5OKLZnR5evU

[size=18pt]Rebuttal to Sam Shamoun's Article "The Qur'an and The Shape of The Earth"[/size]
http://www.call-to-monotheism.com/rebuttal_to_sam_shamoun_s_article__the_qur_an_and_the_shape_of_the_earth_

By Bassam Zawadi

The main purpose of this article is to show that it cannot be proven that the Qur'an or authentic hadeeth teach anything contrary to science.

Sure, it is possible that some early Muslims [either be companions of the Prophet (peace be upon him) or scholars] might have believed in things contrary to science, but that does not pose a threat to Islam if the Qur'an and authentic Sunnah do not agree with them.

To prove Islam false by simply appealing to scholars or early Muslims is just as wrong as appealing to some early Christians who believed that the earth was flat (see here)

The official and orthodox Islamic position is that the earth is round and spherical:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flat_Earth#Islamic_World

http://www.ahlalhdeeth.com/vbe/showpost.php?p=10586&postcount=5

http://www.55a.net/eng/24.htm

http://www.fatwa-online.com/fataawa/miscellaneous/miscellaneous/0040819.htm

http://www.elnaggarzr.com/en/main.php?id=32

http://www.miraclesofthequran.com/scientific_15.html

http://quranicteachings.co.uk/earth-shape.htm

http://islamicvoice.com/April2007/QuestionHour-DrZakirNaik/?PHPSESSID=731e6ee239994da62538bd0725

http://www.ummah.com/ifsa/pages/section3/astronomy/astro6c.htm

There could have been early Muslims that believed to the contrary, but as I said this is irrelevant.

We are going to look at each of Shamoun's points and I will show that it is possible to reasonably interpret the verse in a way in which it doesn't necessarily show that it is teaching a flat Earth.

I will not necessarily be going through Shamoun's points in the exact order that he has put them in his article for there are some verses that could be clubbed together and be given one response.

Sam Shamoun said:

Q. 2:22

WHO made the earth a bed for you, and the heaven a roof, and caused water to come down from the clouds and therewith brought forth fruits for your sustenance; so do not set up equals to ALLAH, while you know. Sher Ali

Commentary:

, who has made the earth AS FLAT and comfortable as a bed and placed upon it mountains standing firm, (Tafsir Ibn Kathir (Part 1), Surah Al-Fatihah Surah Al-Baqarah, ayat 1 to 141, abridged by Sheikh Muhammad Nasib Ar-Rafa'i [Al-Firdous Ltd., London, 1998 second edition], pp. 79-80)

The online version reads:

, He made the earth a resting place for them, just like the bed, STABLE with the firm mountains ,

meaning, 'a ceiling' , (Source)

Q. 20:53

[since he is the One] Who has laid out the earth as a carpet for you and has traced highways on it for you, and sent down water from the sky, We have brought forth every sort of plant with it, of various types. T.B. Irving



My Response:


Zakir Naik answers this:


he surface of the earth i.e. earth's crust is less than 30 miles in thickness and is very thin as compared to the radius of the earth which is about 3750 miles. The deeper layers of the earth are very hot, fluid and hostile to any form of life. The earth's crust is a solidified shell on which we can live. The Qur'an rightly refers to it like a carpet spread out, so that we can travel along its roads and paths.


2. Carpet can also be spread on other than an absolute flat surface

Not a single verse of the Qur'an says that the earth is flat. The Qur'an only compares the earth's crust with a carpet. Some people seem to think that carpet can only be put on an absolute flat surface. It is possible to spread a carpet on a large sphere such as the earth. It can easily be demonstrated by taking a huge model of the earth's globe covering it with a carpet.


Carpet is generally put on a surface, which is not very comfortable to walk on. The Qur'an describes the earth crust as a carpet, without which human beings would not be able to survive because of the hot, fluid and hostile environment beneath it. The Qur'an is thus not only logical; it is mentioning a scientific fact that was discovered by geologists centuries later. (Source)

Tafsir Jalalayn agrees with Zakir Naik:

He Who assigned to you, created [for you], the earth for a couch, like a carpet that is laid out, neither extremely hard, nor extremely soft so as to make it impossible to stand firm upon it; and heaven for an edifice, like a roof; and sent down from the heaven water, wherewith He brought forth, all types of, fruits for your provision; so set not up compeers to God, that is partners in worship, while you know that He is the Creator, that you create not and that only One that creates can be God. (Jalal ud-Din Siyuti, Tafsir al-Jalalayn, Commentary on Surah 2:22, Source)


Thus, we see that Allah uses the term "carpet" to emphasize the fact that the earth is suitable for us to walk upon it. It is not to emphasize the fact that the earth is flat.



Sam Shamoun said:

Q. 13:3

And He it is who hath outstretched the earth, and placed on it the firm mountains, and rivers: and of every fruit He hath placed on it two kinds: He causeth the night to enshroud the day. Verily in this are signs for those who reflect. Rodwell

Commentary:

Allah mentions His perfect ability and infinite authority, since it is He Who has raised the heavens without pillars by His permission and order. He, by His leave, order and power, has elevated the heavens high above the earth, distant and far away from reach. The heaven nearest to the present world encompasses the earth from all directions, and is also high above it from every direction. The distance between the first heaven and the earth is five hundred years from every direction, and its thickness is also five hundred years. The second heaven surrounds the first heaven from every direction, encompassing everything that the latter carries, with a thickness also of five hundred years and a distance between them of five hundred years. The same is also true about the third, the fourth, the fifth, the sixth and the seventh heavens,

<, without any pillars that you can see.> meaning, 'there are pillars, but you cannot see them,' according to Ibn `Abbas, Mujahid, Al-Hasan, Qatadah, and several other scholars. Iyas bin Mu`awiyah said, "The heaven is like a dome over the earth," meaning, without pillars, (Source)


Q. 15:19

And the earth have WE spread out, and set therein firm mountains and cause every thing to grow therein in proper proportion. Sher Ali

We are told in the Tafsir al-Jalalayn that:

And the earth We have stretched it out, SPREAD IT FLAT, and cast therein firm mountains, lest it should sway beneath its inhabitants, and caused to grow therein every kind of balanced thing, [every kind of thing] known and determined. (Source; capital and underline emphasis ours)

Q. 51:48

And the earth WE have spread out, and how excellently do WE spread it out! Sher Ali

Q. 55:10

It is He Who has spread out the earth for (His) creatures: Pickthall

Q. 88:20

Nor even how the earth has been FLATTENED out? Irving

The earth, how it was made FLAT? N.J. Dawood

Commentary:

meaning, how they have been erected. For indeed they are firmly affixed so that the earth does not sway with its dwellers. And He made them with the benefits and minerals they contain ,

meaning, how it has been spread out, extended and made smooth. Thus, He directs the bedouin to consider what he himself witnesses. His camel that he rides upon, the sky that is above his head, the mountain that faces him, and the earth that is under him, all of this is proof of the power of the Creator and Maker of these things. These things should lead him to see that He is the Lord, the Most Great, the Creator, the Owner, and the Controller of everything. Therefore, He is the God other than Whom none deserves to be worshipped. (Source)

The two Jalals say:

And the earth, how it was laid out flat?, and thus infer from this the power of God, exalted be He, and His Oneness? The commencing with the [mention of] camels is because they are closer in contact with it [the earth] than any other [animal]. As for His words sutihat, 'laid out flat', this on a literal reading suggests THAT THE EARTH IS FLAT, WHICH IS THE OPINION OF MOST OF THE SCHOLARS of the [revealed] Law, and not a sphere as astronomers (ahl al-hay'a) have it, even if this [latter] does not contradict any of the pillars of the Law. (Tafsir al-Jalalayn; source; bold, capital and underline emphasis ours)

Q. 91:5-6

By the heaven and That which built it and by the earth and That which extended it! Arberry

Commentary:

Mujahid said, "Tahaha means He spread it out." Al-`Awfi reported from Ibn `Abbas that he said ,

"This means what He created in it." `Ali bin Abi Talhah reported from Ibn `Abbas that he said, "Tahaha means that He proportioned it." Mujahid, Qatadah, Ad-Dahhak, As-Suddi, Ath-Thawri, Abu Salih and Ibn Zayd all said that,

means, He spread it out , (Source)

Tafsir al-Jalalayn states:

and [by] the earth and the One Who spread it, LAID OUT FLAT. (Source; capital emphasis ours)

It should be obvious from the above verses that the author of the Quran erroneously believed in a flat earth kept stable by mountains. The author further erroneously thought that the sun and moon traveled throughout the heavens whereas the earth remained in a fixed position, motionless. Muslims cannot accuse us of misreading or misunderstanding the above passages. We presented the views of Ibn Kathir who provided citations from the early Muslims concurring with our interpretation.

Q. 79:27-30

What, are you stronger in constitution or the heaven He built? He lifted up its vault, and levelled it, and darkened its night, and brought forth its forenoon; and the earth - after that He spread it out, Arberry

The commentators Jalalayn write:

and after that He spread out the earth: HE MADE IT FLAT, for it had been created before the heaven, but without having been spread out; (Tafsir al-Jalalayn; source; capital emphasis ours)

My Response:

I see nothing wrong with these verses. It is saying that the Earth has been stretched for us. This does not imply that the Earth itself is flat, but its surface.


Shaykh Ibn Baaz states:

For this reason, Allaah said:

{And (do they not look) at the Earth, how it was made FLAT (Sutihat)}, [Soorah al-Ghaashiyyah, Aayah 20]

Therefore, it (the Earth) has been made flat for us in regards to its surface, so that people can live on it and so that people can be comfortable upon it. The fact that it is round does not prevent that its surface has been made flat. This is because something that is round and very large, if it is made flat (its surface), then its surface will become very vast or broad (i.e. having a flat appearance). Yes." (Source)



Also, Tafsir Jalalayn is wrong when it says that it was the consensus of Islamic scholars that the Earth is not spherical:


Shaykh Ibn Baaz states:

According to the people knowledge (scholars of Islaam) the earth is round, for indeed Ibn Hazm and a group of other scholars mentioned that there is a consensus (unanimous agreement, Ijmaa') among the people of knowledge that it is round. This means that all of it is connected together thus making the form of the entire planet like a ball. However, Allaah has spread out surface for us and He has placed firm mountains upon it and placed the animals and the seas upon it as a mercy for us. (Source)

An unknown Muslim author states:

Ibn Taymiyyah (d. 728 H / 1328 CE), may Allah be merciful with him, in his
famous treatise, ar-Risalah al-'Arshiyah, refutes the position of the neo-Platonic
philosophers who identified Allah's Throne with the ninth celestial sphere

(Majmu'ul-Fatawa, Vol. 6, pp. 546-ff). In the course of his response,

Ibn Taymiyah discusses the question of the earth is it round or flat? He writes:
[That] celestial bodies are round (istidaaratul-aflaak) - as it is the statement
of astronomers and mathematicians (ahlul-hay'ah wal-hisab) - it is [likewise]
the statement of the scholars of the Muslims; as Abul-Hasan ibn al-Manaadi,

Abu Muhammad ibn Hazm, Abul-Faraj ibn al-Jawzi and others have quoted:

that the Muslim scholars are in agreement [that all celestial bodies are

round].


Indeed Allah - taala - has said: And He (i.e., Allah) it is Who created the night

and the day, the sun and the moon. They float, each in a falak. Ibn Abbas says:

A falaka like that of a spinning wheel.

Ibn Taymiyah continues: The [word] falak [in the Arabic language] means that

which is round. From which is the statement [of the Arabs]: <> (Vol. 6, pp.566-567)

In an earlier passage (Vol. 6, pp. 565-566), Ibn Taymiyah discusses why those

on the other side of the earth are not below us, just like we are not below them.

He writes:

As for the other side of the earth it is surrounded by water.

[Note: Admittedly, Ibn Taymiyah - as all Muslim scholars of his day- were not

aware of the Americas and believed that the Old World was encompassed by

an ocean.] There are no human beings or anything like that [on that side]. Even

if we were to imagine that people were on that side of the earth, such individuals

would still be on the face of the earth.


Those on that side of the earth are not below those who are on this side; just like

those on this side are not below those on that side. For as all spherical bodies

surround a center point (markaz), no one side of a spherical body is under the

other, nor is the north pole under the south [Note: Unlike Western maps, Muslim

cartographers (map-makers) would draw the world with the south-side up.] or

vice versa.

In another passage (Vol. 5, p. 150) Ibn Taymiyah clearly states the earth is
spherical.

Significantly Abu Ya'la in his work Tabaqatal-Hanabilah (Biographical Entries of
the Hanabali Scholars) quotes the unanimous consensus (ijma) of all Muslim
scholars that the earth is round.

This consensus was mentioned by the scholars of the second generation (the
students of the Prophet's Companions) and was based upon Ibn Abbas' explanation

to 21:33 (previously cited) and other evidences.

The later belief of Muslim scholars, like as-Suyuti (died 911 AH / 1505 CE)

that the earth is flat represents a deviation from this earlier opinion. (Source)




Sam Shamoun said:

Q. 16:15

And He has set up on the earth mountains standing firm, lest IT [the earth] should shake with you; and rivers and roads; that ye may guide yourselves; Y. Ali

Commentary:

, Then Allah mentions the earth and how He placed in it mountains standing firm, which make it stable and keep it from shaking in such a manner that the creatures dwelling on it would not be able to live. Hence Allah says ,

(79: 32). (Source)

Q. 31:10

He created the heavens without any pillars THAT YE CAN SEE; He set on the earth mountains standing firm, lest it should shake with you; and He scattered through it beasts of all kinds. We send down rain from the sky, and produce on the earth every kind of noble creature, in pairs. Pickthall

Commentary:

means, the mountains which stabilize and lend weight to the earth, lest it should shake with its water, (Source)

This statement makes it clear that the shaking is not at all about earthquakes as Muslims often claim.

Q. 78:6-7

Have WE not made the earth AS A BED, And the mountains AS PEGS? Sher Ali

Commentary:

meaning, an established, firm and peaceful resting place that is subservient to them ,

meaning, He made them AS PEGS for the earth TO HOLD IT IN PLACE, MAKE IT STABLE AND FIRM. This is so that it may be suitable for dwelling AND NOT QUAKE with those who are in it , (Source)

Here is one from al-Tirmidhi:

Narrated Anas ibn Malik
Allah's Messenger (peace be upon him) said, "When Allah created the Earth it began to oscillate, so He created the mountains, ordered them onto it, and it became steady. The angels marvelled at the strength of the mountains and asked their Lord whether there was anything in His creation stronger than the mountains, to which He replied that iron was stronger. They asked if anything in His creation was stronger than iron, and He replied that fire was. They asked if anything in His creation was stronger than fire and He replied that water was. They asked if anything in His creation was stronger than water and He replied that wind was. They asked if anything in His creation was stronger than wind and He replied, "Yes, the son of Adam who gives sadaqah with his right hand which concealing it from his left." Tirmidhi transmitted it, saying this is a gharib tradition. (Al-Tirmidhi, Number 602; taken from the ALIM CD-ROM Version)




My Response:

Regarding the Qur'an and function of mountains please refer to the following links:



http://www.elnaggarzr.com/en/main.php?id=3

http://www.miraclesofthequran.com/scientific_25.html

http://www.islamreligion.com/articles/215/





Sam Shamoun said:

Q. 22:65

Do you not see that Allah has made subservient to you whatsoever is in the earth and the ships running in the sea by His command? And He withholds the heaven FROM FALLING ON THE EARTH except with His permission; most surely Allah is Compassionate, Merciful to men. Shakir

Commentary:

If He willed, He could give the sky permission to fall on the earth, and whoever is in it would be killed, but by His kindness, mercy and power, He withholds the heaven from falling on the earth, except by His leave , (Source)

Note: Certainly it is God, the Creator who put everything in place to function well. And He is also the sustainer who upholds the continuing existence of the world. However, the above formulation presupposes that the sky above us is something heavy and hard which could cause serious damage, even kill people, if it were to fall down. That certainly is scientific nonsense!

Q. 30:25

Among His signs are [the fact] that the sky and earth HOLD FIRM at His command. Then whenever He calls you forth out of the earth once and for all, you will (all) come forth! Irving

Commentary:

This is like the Ayat ,

(22: 65),

(35:41). Whenever `Umar bin Al-Khattab, may Allah be pleased with him, swore an emphatic oath, he would say, "No, by the One by Whose command the heaven and the earth stand," i.e., THEY STAND FIRM by His command to them and His subjugation of them. Then, when the Day of Resurrection comes, the Day when the earth will be exchanged with another earth and the dead will come forth from their graves, brought back to life by His command and His call to them, (Source)

Q. 71:15-20

Have you not regarded how God created seven heavens one upon another, and set the moon therein for a light and the sun for a lamp? And God caused you to grow out of the earth, then He shall return you into it, and bring you forth. And God has laid the earth for you as a carpet, that thereof you may thread ways, ravines. Arberry

The only way for there to be heavens piled on top of each other is if the author of the Quran erroneously assumed that the heavens were actual physical objects much like a metallic dome. This explains why the author of the Quran could talk about cracks in the heavens.

Ibn Kathir, in his comments on S. 2:29, reiterates this very point by likening the creation of the heavens and earth to a building:

These Ayat indicate that Allah started creation by creating earth, then He made heaven into seven heavens. This is how building usually starts, with the lower floors first and then the top floors, as the scholars of Tafsir reiterated, as we will come to know, Allah willing, (Source)

Hence, Allah first created the earth, since it functioned much like the ground floor of a house, and then piled the heavens on top of each other in a similar manner to the way a bulider constructs several floors on top of one another!

Here, now, are Ibn Kathir's comments to Q. 71:15-20:

meaning, He made a distinction between them (the sun and moon) in reference to their lighting. He made each one of them in a set manner with a distinct quality so that the night and day may be known. They (the night and day) are known by the rising and setting of the sun. He also determined fixed stations and positions for the moon, and He made its light vary so that sometimes it increases until it reaches a maximum, then it begins to decrease until it is completely veiled. This shows the passing of months and years , (Source)


My Response:


Shamoun said:

However, the above formulation presupposes that the sky above us is something heavy and hard which could cause serious damage, even kill people, if it were to fall down. That certainly is scientific nonsense!

The only one speaking nonsense here is Shamoun who happens to be ignorant of the fact that the sky does have weight!



One website states:

Although the weight of the atmosphere is only about one millionth the weight of the earth, it does exert a force or pressure on the surface of the earth. (Flight Environment: The Atmosphere, Pressure and Forces, All Star Network, Source)

The student edition of Encyclopedia Britannica states:

The total mass of the atmosphere is estimated to be some 5.5 quadrillion (55 followed by 14 zeros) tons (4.99 quadrillion metric tons). This mass is equal to about one millionth of the mass of the Earth. Air is heaviest at sea level because the air molecules are compressed by the weight of overlying air. (Atmosphere, Encyclopedia Britannica Student Edition, Source)


Since the sun, stars, moon, etc. are in the sky and it is Allah's power and control that ensures that they don't fall upon us then there seems to be nothing wrong with what the verse is saying. When the Qur'an says that the sky won't fall on us it could well be referring to what is in the sky. It can't be read so literally. For instance, the Qur'an says:

Surah 12:82


"'Ask at the town where we have been and the caravan in which we returned, and (you will find) we are indeed telling the truth.'"


Now obviously if one takes this literally then he would reach the absurd conclusion that the Qur'an is ordering one to talk to a town and caravan. However, we know that the Qur'an is referring to the people in the town and caravan.

Thus, similarly the Qur'an could very well be referring to the objects in the sky and not the actual sky itself, which is not a physical object.

Similarly, 30:25 could be speaking about Allah holding firm the objects in the sky. It is emphasizing that the sky is obedient to Allah in that it remains the way it is above us.


In regards to Surah 71, I don't see why it is necessary that the author of the Qur'an had to assume that the heavens are physical. Non-physical objects could also be on top of one another.



Sam Shamoun said:

Q. 27:61

Is not He (better than your gods) Who has made the earth as A FIXED ABODE, and has placed rivers in its midst, and has placed firm mountains therein, and has set a barrier between the two seas (of salt and sweet water). Is there any ilah (god) with Allah? Nay, but most of them know not. Hilali-Khan

Note here these two other translations:

Is not He (best) Who made the earth A FIXED ABODE , Pickthall

He who made the earth A FIXED PLACE, A.J. Arberry

Commentary:

meaning, STABLE AND STATIONARY, SO THAT IT DOES NOT MOVE OR CONVULSE, because if it were to do so, it would not be a good place for people to live on. But by His grace and mercy, He has made it smooth and calm, and it is not shaken or moved , (Source)

Q. 35:41

Verily! Allah grasps the heavens and the earth LEST THEY MOVE away from their places, and if they were TO MOVE away from their places, there is not one that could grasp them after Him. Truly, He is Ever Most Forbearing, Oft Forgiving. Hilali-Khan

Commentary:

means, LEST THEY SHOULD SHIFT FROM WHERE THEY ARE. This is like the Ayat ,

(22:65), and ,

(30:25) ,

means, no one can make them stay and preserve them except Him , (Source)

One Muslim website candidly admits that the heavens and earth are in fact stationary according to the Quran:

Question:
ASSALAM-O-ALAIKUM, WHAT IS THE RULING OF SHARIA ON THE MOVEMENT OF EARTH.
GIVE EXPLANATION.

Answer:
According to the teaching of Quran and Hadith, the sky and earth ARE STATIONARY and planets rotate. It is the sun that moves around the earth WHILE THE EARTH DOES NOT MOVE AROUND THE SUN.

There are many verses of the Holy Quran that clearly show the rotation of the moon and the sun, which are given as under:

1) "And made the sun and the moon subservient. Each runs to a turns stated" (Al-Quran, part 13, Sura Al-Ra'ad (The Thunder)-13, verse 2)
2) "And He made the sun and the moon subservient for you which are constantly moving" (Al-Quran, part 13, Sura Ibraheem -14, verse 23)
3) And each (The moon the sun) is floating in an orbit." (Al-Quran, part 23, Sura Yaseen -36, verse 140)

It is thus quiet [sic] clear that the sun moves and it is obligatory upon every muslim [sic] to believe it. Because it is what Allah Almighty ordains us to believe. In the light of the Holy Quran and Hadith the theory of the rotation of the earth IS ABSOLUTELY WRONG. Allah Almighty says: "Undoubtedly, Allah has withheld the heavens and the earth least they move." (AL-Quran)

In the book "Fiq-hus- Sahaba Baad-Al- Khulfa-e-Alarba" there has been recorded a statement/saying of k'ab in the presense [sic] of syedna Abdullah bin Masood, the man who keeps the secrets of messenger of Allah (pbuh) and syedna Huzaifa bin Alyaman (r.a.). This statement of K'ab is "The heaven revolves". However, both Syedna Abdullah bin Masood (r.a.) and syedna Huzaifa bin Alyaman (r.a.) said agreeably that "K'ab said incorrect, and undoubtedly Allah has withheld the heaven and the earth least they move. And Abdullah Bin Masood (r.a.) supporting this statement added that Allah's commandment is enough for us, and they (Heavens & Earth) do not move. This statement has been narrated by Saeed bin Mansoor (r.a.) and Abd bin Hameed son of Jareer, son of Almanzer (r.a.) and they narrated it with reference of Hafiz bin Abd ibne Hameed (r.a.).

(Source: Muslim discussion board posting by PrinceZ£D; bold, and bold capital emphasis ours. The above is his transcribed/edited text of the answer given by the Imam of the site www.dawateislami.net, section "Ask the Imam". The original article is found here.)




My Response:


What is the problem? Yes, the earth has been made stable for us so that it won't wiggle and shake as we walk on it.

Tafsir Jalalayn has it:

Or He Who made the earth an abode [of stability], that does not [constantly] shake beneath [the feet of] its inhabitants, and made rivers [to flow] throughout it and set firm mountains for it, with which He fixed the earth [in place], and set an isthmus between the two seas, between the sweet one and the salty one, the one not mixing with the other. Is there a god with God? Nay, but most of them have no knowledge, of His Oneness. (Jalal ud-Din Siyuti, Tafsir al-Jalalayn, Commentary on Surah 27:61, Source)




Imam Tabari states:

ÇáøóÐöí ÌóÚóáó ÇáúÃóÑúÖ áóßõãú ÞóÑóÇÑðÇ ÊóÓúÊóÞöÑøõæäó ÚóáóíúåóÇ áóÇ ÊóãöíÏ Èößõãú



The one who made the earth stable for you in order that you may settle on it and that it doesn't wiggle or shake with you. (Ibn Jarir al-Tabari, Jami' al-bayan fi ta'wil al-Qur'an, Commentary on Surah 27:61, Source)

It does not mean that the earth is literally still and does not move. It is staying that it is stable so that it won't shake with you. See how in Surah 31:10 Allah said that the purpose of the mountains is to stabilize the Earth so that it won't shake with us. Similarly, Allah is trying to communicate the same thing in this verse when He tells us that the Earth is stable.



Also, Surah 35:41 can be interpreted in different ways.

The Arabic word tazoola could also mean "vanish". Hence Tafsir Jalalayn states:

Truly God sustains the heavens and the earth lest they disappear, in other words, He prevents them from disappearing. And if (wa-la-in: the lām is for oaths) they were to disappear there is none that can sustain them after Him, in other words, other than Him. Truly He is ever Forbearing, Forgiving, in deferring the punishment of the disbelievers. (Jalal ud-Din Siyuti, Tafsir al-Jalalayn, Commentary on Surah 35:41, Source)

So here we see that the verse could possibly not even be talking about the Earth moving or not.

Ibn Abbass takes the view that it is talking about the Earth not moving:

(Lo! Allah graspeth) holds (the heavens and the earth that they deviate not) so that they do not move from their actual place because of the enormity of the claim of the Jews and Christians when they maintained that Ezra and Jesus were the sons of Allah, (and if they were to deviate) and if they were to move from their actual place (there is not one that could grasp them after Him. Lo! He is ever Clement) despite the claim of the Jews and Christians, (Forgiving) He forgives whoever repents of them. (Ibn Abbaas, Tanwîr al-Miqbâs min Tafsîr Ibn 'Abbâs, Commentary on Surah 35:41, Source)



However, we see that when the verse states that it stops the Heavens and the Earth from moving it does not mean that it is literally staying still (i.e. Earth not orbiting and Heavens remaining still), it is only saying that they will not move out of their places. See also Tafseer Al Jaza'iri. So just because I say that I will not move something out of its place that does not necessarily imply that it is actually still. For instance, it makes perfect sense for me to say that the fan on the ceiling stays in its place while it is twirling. So me saying that it stays in its place does not necessarily imply that it is staying still. Rather, it means that it is not moving out of its usual or ordinary location. Similarly, Allah is saying in the verse that the Earth and Heavens are in their proper order/place/function etc. and it is God that ensures that they remain that way.


Sam Shamoun said:

Q. 40:64

It is God who made for you the earth A FIXED PLACE and heaven for an edifice; And He shaped you, and shaped you well, and provided you with the good things. That then is God, your Lord, so blessed be God, the Lord of all Being. Arberry

Commentary:

means, `He made it STABLE and SPREAD IT OUT for you, so that you might live on it and travel about in it; He strengthened it with the mountains so that it does not shake with you' ,

means, `a ROOF covering and protecting the world.' (Source)

Q. 43:10

(Yea, the same that) has made for you the earth (like a carpet) spread out, and has made for you roads (and channels) therein, in order that ye may find guidance (on the way); Y. Ali

Commentary:

means, smooth, STABLE AND FIRM, so that you can travel about in it, and stand on it and sleep and walk about, even though it is created above water, but He has strengthened it with the mountains, lest it should shake. (Source)

My Response:




The same response could be given here just as I have been giving earlier in this article.

As for the function of the sky please go here:



http://www.miraclesofthequran.com/scientific_20.html

http://www.miraclesofthequran.com/scientific_21.html




Sam Shamoun said:

Q. 50:6-7

What, have they not beheld heaven above them, how We have built it, and decked it out fair, AND IT HAS NO CRACKS? And the earth -- We stretched it forth, and cast on it firm mountains, and We caused to grow therein of every joyous kind , Arberry

Allah built the heavens without any cracks.

Commentary:

i.e., clefts, according to Mujahid. Others said that Furuj means, rifts, or cracks , (Source)

This presupposes that the heavens are a physical object which has an actual hard surface that can crack.

Q. 67:3-5

Who hath created seven heavens in harmony. Thou (Muhammad) canst see no fault in the Beneficent One's creation; then look again: Canst thou see any RIFTS? Then look again and yet again, thy sight will return unto thee weakened and made dim. And verily We have beautified the world's heaven with lamps, and We have made them missiles for the devils, and for them We have prepared the doom of flame.

Who could ever imagine and which scientist would accept that stars or meteors (i.e. lamps) are used as missiles against spirit beings like the devils?

Commentary:

meaning, look at the sky and pay close attention to it. Do you see any flaw, deficiency, defect or RIFTS in it Ibn `Abbas, Mujahid, Ad-Dahhak, Ath-Thawri and others said concerning Allah's statement ,

that it means CRACKS. As-Suddi said that ,

means any TEARS. (Source)

My Response:


First of all, the word Furuj could also mean rift just as Shamoun pointed out by quoting from Ibn Kathir.

Secondly, for something to have a rift it does not necessarily have to be a physical object (e.g. a rift in the clouds).

Thirdly, just because Allah is negating "cracking" for the sky that does not presuppose that the sky is a physical object and has the ability to crack. If someone says that God does not go to the toilet that does not necessarily presuppose that He has a penis or anus with the ability to urinate or excrete. Just as I can say that God does not go to the toilet without presupposing that He has an anus or penis, I can also negate "cracking" for the sky without necessarily presupposing that it has a surface that could crack.

The verse is mainly emphasizing the fact that there is perfect design in Allah's creation of the sky and that there are no defects and disharmony in that.

Fourthly, the sky will be torn on the Day of Judgment (84:1) but that does not mean that it will tear up like a piece of paper. It is emphasizing the fact that what is in the sky will be in disorder and separated from their proper places. (See Tafsir Razi and other commentaries) Thus, maybe the sky is "crack able" in a way that we don't comprehend. Allah uses terms for our own understanding (understanding the meaning of the word) even though we don't comprehend it (understand how).

In regards to the stars being used as missiles against the devils, this is a matter of the unseen and Muslims wouldn't and shouldn't expect these kinds of arguments to come from Christians who believe in the unseen. Can Shamoun prove that God does not use the stars as missiles against the devils?



Sam Shamoun said:

It was said that "Nun" refers to A GREAT WHALE that rides on the currents of the waters of the great ocean AND ON ITS BACK IT CARRIES THE SEVEN EARTHS, as was stated by Imam Abu Jafar Ibn Jarir. Narrated by Ibn Bashar, narrated by Yahya, narrated by Sufyan Al-Thuri, narrated by Sulayman Al-Amash, narrated by Abu Thubian, narrated by Ibn Abbas who related, "The first thing that Allah created was the pen and He said to it 'Write'. The pen asked, 'What shall I write?' Allah said, 'Write (the) fate (of everything).' So the pen wrote everything that shall be from that moment until judgment day.

Then Allah created the "Nun" and He caused steam to rise out of which the heavens were created AND THE EARTH WAS THEN LAID FLAT ON THE NUN'S BACK. Then the Nun became nervous and (as a result) the earth began to sway, but (Allah) fastened (the earth) with mountains lest the earth should move ,

It was narrated by Ibn Jarir, narrated by Ibn Hamid, narrated by Ata'a, narrated by Abu Al-Dahee, narrated by Ibn Abbas who stated, "The first thing my Lord created, may He be Exalted and Glorified, was the pen and He said to it, 'Write.' So the pen wrote all that will be until judgment day. Then Allah created the Nun (the whale) above the waters AND HE PRESSED THE EARTH INTO ITS BACK.

Al Tabarani narrated the same hadith above (from the prophet Muhammad) who narrated from Abu Habib Zaid Al-Mahdi Al Marouzi, narrated by Sa'id Ibn Yaqub Al-Talqani, narrated by Mu'amal Ibn Ismail, narrated by Hamad Ibn Zaid, narrated by Ata'a Ibn Al Sa'ib, narrated by Abu Al Dahee Muslim Ibn Subaih, narrated by Ibn Abbas who stated that the prophet - may peace and blessing be upon him and his family - said, "The first things Allah created were the pen and the whale and He said to the pen 'Write.' The pen asked, 'What shall I write?' Allah replied, 'Everything that shall be until judgment day.' Then He said 'Nun. By the Pen and by what they write.' So Nun is the whale and al-Qalam is the pen" ,


Ibn Abu Nujaih stated that Ibrahim Ibn Abu Bakir was informed by Mujahid who said, "It was said that Nun is the great whale WHO IS UNDERNEATH THE SEVEN EARTHS." Furthermore, Al-Baghawy - may Allah rest his soul - and a group of commentators stated that on the back of this whale there is a great rock whose thickness is greater than the width of the heavens and the earth and above this rock is A BULL THAT HAS FORTY THOUSAND HORNS. On the body of this bull are placed the seven earths and all that they contain, and Allah knows best. (Source)


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AL-TABARI

Here are the traditions which renowned Muslim historian al-Tabari transmitted regarding the meaning of surah 68:1. He basically repeats what Ibn Kathir wrote.

Someone might say: If it is as you have described, namely, that God created the earth before the heaven, then what is the meaning of the statement of Ibn 'Abbas told all of you by Wasil b. 'Abd al-A'la al-Asadi- Muhammad b. Fudayl- al-A'mash- Abu Zabyan- Ibn 'Abbas: The first thing God created is the Pen. God then said to it: Write!, whereupon the Pen asked: What shall I write, my lord! God replied: Write what is predestined! He continued: And the Pen proceeded to (write) whatever is predestined and gong to be to the Coming of the Hour. God then lifted up the water vapor and split the heavens off from it. Then God created THE FISH (nun), AND THE EARTH WAS SPREAD OUT UPON ITS BACK. The fish became agitated, with the result that the earth was shaken up. It was steadied BY MEANS OF THE MOUNTAINS, for they indeed proudly (tower) over the earth.

I was told about the same by Wasil - Waki' - al-A'mash - Abu Zabyan - Ibn 'Abbas.

According to Ibn al-Muthanna - Ibn Abi 'Adi - Shu'bah - Sulayman (al-A'mash') - Abu Zabyan - Ibn 'Abbas: The first (thing) created by God is the Pen. It proceeded to (write) whatever is going to be. (God) then lifted up the water vapor, and the heavens were created from it. Then He created the fish, and the earth was spread out on its back. The fish moved, with the result that the earth was shaken up. It was steadied by means of the mountains, for the mountains indeed proudly (tower) over the earth. So he said, and he recited: "Nun. By the Pen and what they write."

I was told the same by Tamim b. al-Muntasir - Ishaq (b. Yusuf) - Sharik (b. 'Abdallah al-Nakha'i) - al-A'mash - Abu Zabyan or Mujahid - Ibn 'Abbas, with the exception, however, that he said: And the heavens were split off from it (instead of: were created).



According to Ibn Bashshar - Yahya - Sufyan - Sulayman (al-A'mash') - Abu Zabyan - Ibn 'Abbas: The first (thing) created by God is the Pen. God said: Write!, whereupon the Pen asked: What shall I write? God replied: Write what is predestined! He continued. And (the Pen) proceeded to (write) whatever is predestined and going to be from that day on to the Coming of the Hour. Then God created the fish. He lifted up the water vapor, and heaven was split off from it, and the earth was spread out upon the back of the fish. The fish became agitated, and as a result, the earth was shaken up. It was steadied by means of the mountains, he continued, for they proudly (tower) over the earth.

According to Ibn Humayd - Jarir (b. 'Abd al-Hamid) - 'Ata' b. al-Sa'ib - Abu al-Duha Muslim b. Subayh - Ibn 'Abbas: The first thing created by God is the Pen. God said to it: Write!, and it wrote whatever is going to be until the Coming of the Hour. Then God created the fish. Then he heaped up the earth upon it.


This reportedly IS A SOUND TRADITION AS TRANSMITTED ON THE AUTHORITY OF IBN 'ABBAS and on the authority of others in the sense commented upon and explained and does not contradict anything transmitted by us from him on this subject.


Should someone ask: What comment on his authority and that of others proves the soundness of what you have transmitted to us in this sense on his authority? He should be referred to what I have been told by Musa b. Harun al-Hamdani - 'Abdallah b. Mas'ud and some (other) companions of the Messenger of God (commenting on): "He is the One Who created for you all that is on earth. Then He stretched out straight toward the heaven and fashioned it into seven heavens." God's throne was upon the water. He had not created anything except what He created before the water. When He wanted to create the creation, He brought forth smoke from the water. The smoke rose above the water and hovered loftily over it. He therefore called it "heaven." Then He dried out the water, and thus made it one earth. He split it AND MADE IT INTO SEVEN EARTHS on Sunday and Monday. He created the earth UPON A (big) FISH (hut), THAT BEING THE FISH (nun) MENTIONED BY GOD IN THE QUR'AN: "Nun. By the Pen." The fish was in the water. The water was UPON THE BACK OF A (small) ROCK. The rock was UPON THE BACK OF AN ANGEL. The angel was UPON A (big) ROCK. The big rock - THE ONE MENTIONED BY LUQMAN - WAS IN THE WIND, neither in heaven nor on the earth. The fish moved and became agitated. As a result, the earth quacked, whereupon He firmly, anchored the mountains on it, and it was stable. This is stated in God's word that He made for the earth "firmly anchored (mountains), lest it should shake you up."(The History of Al-Tabari: General Introduction and From the Creation to the Flood, translated by Franz Rosenthal [State University of New York Press (SUNY), Albany, 1989], Volume 1, pp. 218-220)


Al-Tabari also wrote:


According to Muhammad b. Sahl b. 'Askar-Isma'il b. 'Abd al-Karim-Wahb, mentioning some of his majesty (as being described as follows): The heavens and the earth and the oceans are in the haykal, and the haykal is in the Footstool. God's feet are upon the Footstool. He carries the Footstool. It became like a sandal on His feet. When Wahb was asked: What is the haykal? He replied: Something on the heavens' extremities that surrounds the earth and the oceans like ropes that are used to fasten a tent. And when Wahb was asked how earths are (constituted), he replied: They are seven earths that are FLAT and islands. Between each two earths, there is an ocean. All that is surrounded by the (surrounding) ocean, and the haykal is behind the ocean. (Ibid., pp. 207-208)


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AL-QURTUBI

Narrated by Al-Walid Ibn Muslim, narrated by Malik Ibn Ans, narrated by Sumay son of Abu Bakir, narrated by Abu Salih Al-Samaan, narrated by Abu Hurayrah who related that he heard the prophet - peace be upon him - say, "The first thing Allah created was the pen, then He created the 'Nun' which is an inkwell. This is what Allah stated (in sura 68:1) 'Nun and the Pen.' And He said to it, 'Write'. So the pen wrote all that will be until judgment day. Then Allah created the Nun (the whale) above the waters AND HE PRESSED THE EARTH INTO IS BACK. He (Allah) then said to the pen 'Write.' The pen asked 'What shall I write?' Allah replied, 'Write what was and what will be until judgment day; whether deed, reward, consequence and punishment- until judgment day.' Thus the pen wrote what shall be until judgment day. Allah then placed a seal over the pen and it will not talk until judgment day. Then Allah created the mind and said, 'By my Glory, I will establish you in those whom you love and I will take you away from those whom you despise.'"

Mujahid related that 'Nun' is the whale that is underneath the seventh earth. He stated that the 'Pen' is what was used to write 'Al-Thikir' (The Remembrance - Quran). Likewise, it was also narrated by Mukatil, Murrah Al-Hamdani, Ata' Al-Kharasani, Al Suddi and Al-Kalbi who all said, "Nun is the whale upon which all the earths are placed."

Narrated by Abu Thabyan, narrated by Ibn Abbas who said, "The first thing that Allah created was the Pen which wrote all that shall be. Then water vapor began to rise, out of which the heavens were created. Then (Allah) created Nun (the whale) and flattened the earth on its back. When the earth began to lean, it was reinforced with mountains, which are on its surface." Then Ibn Abbas read the verse (Sura 68:1) 'Nun and the Pen.'


Al-Kalbi and Mukatil stated that the name (of the whale) is 'Al-Bahmout.' Al-Rajis said, "Why do I see you all silent and the Lord my God created Al-Bahmout?"


Abu Yakthan and Al-Waqidi stated that the name (of the whale) is 'Leotha'; Whereas Kab stated that its name is 'Lo-tho-tha' or 'Bil-Ha-motha.' Kab said, "Satan crept up to the whale, on whom the seven earths are placed, and whispered into its heart saying, 'Do you realize what is on your back, Oh Lo-tho-tha of beasts and plants and humans and others? If you are annoyed with them, you can throw them all off your back.' So Lo-tho-tha intended to do what was suggested (by Satan) but Allah sent the whale a reptile that crawled through into its blowhole and reached its brain. The whale then cried to Allah -may He be glorified and honored - and He gave permission for the reptile to exit (the whale)." Kab continued and said, "By Allah, the whale stares at the reptile and the reptile stares at the whale, and if the whale intends to do (what Satan suggested) the reptile would return to the place it was before." (Source)


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TAFSIR IBN ABBAS

And from his narration on the authority of Ibn 'Abbas that he said regarding the interpretation of Allah's saying (Nun): '(Nun) He says: Allah swears by the Nun, which is the whale that carries the earths on its back while in Water, and beneath which is the Bull and under the Bull is the Rock and under the Rock is the Dust and none knows what is under the Dust save Allah. The name of the whale is Liwash, and it is said its name is Lutiaya'; the name of the bull is Bahamut, and some say its name is Talhut or Liyona. The whale is in a sea called 'Adwad, and it is like a small bull in a huge sea. The sea is in a hollowed rock whereby there is 4,000 cracks, and from each crack water springs out to the earth. It is also said that Nun is one of the names of the Lord; it stands for the letter Nun in Allah's name al-Rahman (the Beneficent); and it is also said that a Nun is an inkwell. (By the pen) Allah swore by the pen. This pen is made of light and its height is equal to the distance between Heaven and earth. It is with this pen that the Wise Remembrance, i.e. the Guarded Tablet, was written. It is also said that the pen is one of the angels by whom Allah has sworn, (and that which they write (therewith)) and Allah also swore by what the angels write down of the works of the children of Adam, (Tanwîr al-Miqbâs min Tafsîr Ibn 'Abbâs; source; bold and underline emphasis ours)



My Response:

First of all, none of these narrations were uttered by the Prophet (peace be upon him) or found in the Qur'an and that means that they are not binding upon us.

Secondly, we know where these narrations came from. They came from the Israeiliyat as Ibn Kathir stated in Al Bidaaya wal Nihaayaa¸ Volume 1, page 15.

Thirdly, all of these narrations are either weak or fabricated. Please refer to the following sources and see what the scholars have said regarding the weakness and fabrication of these narrations:

Sheikh Albani, Silseelatil Al Ahaadeeth Al Da'eefa, Hadith no. 1253 & 6309

Al Dhahabi, Siyar A`laam-in-Nubulaa', Volume 4, page 61 & Volume 10, page 669

Ibn Rajab, Rasaail Ibn Rajab, Volume 3, page 138

Ibn 'Idi, Tahzheeb Al Tahzheeb, Volume 9, page 506

Ibn Hajar, Lisaan Al Meezaan, Volume 7, Hadith no. 572

Ibn Al Qaysaraani, Zhakeeratul Hufaaz, Volume 2, Hadith no. 1024


Fourthly, notice the strange difference between the narrations, some say that the Nun is a whale while the others are saying the Nun is an ink well. How can we rely on such narrations?

Fifthly, even if these narrations were authentic this is just a matter of the unseen that cannot be proven or disproved.

Sam Shamoun said:

The preceding Muslim commentators weren't alone in narrating some fantastic interpretations. Hadith compilers like Abu Dawud had a few fabulous ones as well:

Narrated Al-Abbas ibn AbdulMuttalib:
I was sitting in al-Batha with a company among whom the Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) was sitting, when a cloud passed above them.

The Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) looked at it and said: What do you call this? They said: Sahab.

He said: And muzn? They said: And muzn. He said: And anan? They said: And anan. AbuDawud said: I am not quite confident about the word anan. He asked: Do you know the distance between Heaven and Earth? They replied: We do not know. He then said: The distance between them is seventy-one, seventy-two, or seventy-three years. The heaven which is above it is at a similar distance (going on till he counted seven heavens). Above the seventh heaven there is a sea, the distance between whose surface and bottom is like that between one heaven and the next. Above that there ARE EIGHT MOUNTAIN GOATS the distance between whose hoofs and haunches is like the distance between one heaven and the next. Then Allah, the Blessed and the Exalted, is above that. (Sunan Abu Dawud, Book 40, Number 4705)


My Response:

Sheikh Albani declared this hadeeth to be weak in Sunan Abu Dawud, hadith no. 4723.

Secondly, again these are matters of the unseen and cannot be proven or disproved.




Sam Shamoun said:

This next final tradition is taken from Muhammad ibn 'Abd Allah al-Kisa'i's book Qisas al-Anbiya (Tales of the Prophets):

Kaab al-Ahbar said: When God wished to create the dry land, He commanded the wind to churn up the waters. When they had become turbulent and foamy, waves swelled and gave off vapor. Then God commanded the foam to solidify, and it became dry. In two days he created the dry land on the face of the waters, as He hath said: Say, do ye indeed disbelieve in him who created the earth in two days? (41:9). Then He commanded these waves to be still, and they formed the mountains, which He used as pegs to hold down the earth, as He hath said: And we placed stable mountains on the earth lest it should move with them (21:31). Were it not for the mountains, the earth would not have been stable enough for its inhabitants. The veins of these mountains are connected with the veins of Mount Qaf, which is the range that surrounds the earth.

Then God created the seven seas. The first is called Baytush and surrounds the earth from behind Mount Qaf. Behind it is a sea called Asamm, behind which is a sea called Qaynas, behind which is a sea called Sakin, behind which is a sea called Mughallib, behind which is a sea called Muannis, behind which is a sea called Baki, which is the last. These are the seven seas, and each of them surrounds the sea before it. The rest of the seas in which are creatures whose number only God knows, are like gulfs to these seven. God created sustenance for all these creatures on the fourth day, as He hath said: And he provided therein the food of the creatures designed to be the inhabitants thereof, in four days; equally, for those who ask (41:10).

There are seven earths. The first is called Ramaka, beneath which is the Barren Wind, which can be bridled by no fewer than seventy thousand angels. With this wind God destroyed the people of Ad. The inhabitants of Ramaka are a nation called Muwashshim, upon whom is everlasting torment and divine retribution. The second earth is called Khalada, wherein are the implements of torture for the inhabitants of Hell. There dwells a nation called Tamis, whose food is their own flesh and whose drink is their own blood. The third earth is called Arqa, wherein dwell mulelike eagles with spearlike tails. On each tail are three hundred and sixty poisonous quills. Were even one quill placed on the face of the earth, the entire universe would pass away. The inhabitants thereof are a nation called Qays, who eat dirt and drink mothers' milk. The fourth earth is called Haraba, wherein dwell the snakes of Hell, which are as large as mountains. Each snake has fangs like tall palm trees, and if they were to strike the hugest mountain with their fangs it would be leveled to the ground. The inhabitants of this earth are a nation called Jilla, and they have no eyes, hands or feet but have wings like bats and die only of old age. The fifth earth is called Maltham, wherein stones of sulphur hang around the necks of infidels. When the fire is kindled the fuel is placed on their breasts, and the flames leap up onto their faces, as He hath said: The fire whose fuel is men and stones (2:24), and Fire shall cover their faces (14:50). The inhabitants are a nation called Hajla, who are numerous and who eat each other. The sixth earth is called Sijjin. Here are the registers of the people of Hell, and their works are vile, as He hath said: Verily the register of the actions of the wicked is surely Sijjin (83:7). Herein dwells a nation called Qatat, who are shaped like birds and worship God truly. The seventh earth is called Ajiba and is the habitation of Iblis. There dwells a nation called Khasum, who are black and short, with claws like lions. It is they who will be given dominion over Gog and Magog, who will be destroyed by them.

And the earth was tossed about with its inhabitants like a ship, so God sent down an angel of extreme magnitude and strength and ordered him to slip beneath the earth and bear it up on his shoulders. He stretched forth one of his hands to the East and the other to the West and took hold of the earth from end to end [Note: this again presumes that the earth is flat]. However, there was no foothold for him, so God created from an emerald a square rock, in the middle of which were seven thousand holes. In each hole there was a sea, description of which is known only to God. And He commanded the rock to settle beneath the angel's feet. The rock, whoever, had no support, so God created a great bull with forty thousand heads, eyes, ears, nostrils, mouths, tongues and legs and commanded it to bear the rock on its back and on its horns. The name of the bull is al-Rayyan. As the bull had no place to rest its feet, God created a huge fish, upon which no one may gaze because it is so enormous and had so many eyes. It is even said that if all the seas were placed in one of its gills, they would be like a mustard seed in the desert. This fish God commanded to be a foothold for the bull, and it was done. The name of this fish is Behemoth. Then He made its resting place the waters, beneath which is the air, and beneath the air is the Darkness, which is for all the earths. There, beneath the Darkness, the knowledge of created things ends. (Ibid., translated by Wheeler M. Thackston Jr. [Great Books of the Islamic World, Inc., Distributed by Kazi Publications; Chicago, IL 1997], pp. 8-10; bold emphasis ours)




My Response:

Ka'b Al Ahbar said this, not the Prophet (peace be upon him). Plus, it would be useful if we can have a reference for this narration and see whether it has been authentically attributed to Ka'b.


Sam Shamoun said:

Finally, A Contradiction

As we saw above, the Quran in many places says that the earth has been spread out. In this next passage, the Quran proclaims that on the Day of Judgment the earth will be spread out:

When the heaven bursts asunder, And hearkens unto her Lord - and this is incumbent upon her - And when the earth is SPREAD OUT (muddat) And cast out all that is in her, and appears to become empty S. 84:3-4 Sher Ali

The earth being spread out at the end of time assumes that at the present moment it is not, which contradicts those passages that say it already has been stretched out! Note again the following citation:

And He it is Who spread (madda) the earth and made in it firm mountains and rivers, and of all fruits He has made in it two kinds; He makes the night cover the day; most surely there are signs in this for a people who reflect. S. 13:3 Shakir

Lest someone deny that surah 84 is referring to the end of time we present the comments of Ibn Kathir:

Splitting the Heavens asunder and stretching the Earth forth on the Day of Resurrection

Allah says ,

This refers to the Day of Judgement ,

meaning, it listens to its Lord and obeys His command to split apart. This will occur on the Day of Judgement ,

meaning, it is right for it to obey the command of its Lord, because it is great and cannot be rejected, nor overcome. Rather it overpowers everything and everything is submissive to it. Then Allah says ,

meaning, when the earth is expanded, spread out and extended , (Source)

Hence, not only does the Quran hold to an erroneous view of the cosmos, it even contradicts itself regarding the current state and shape of the earth!




My Response:

Notice Shamoun's false reasoning. He erroneously assumes that when Surah 84:3 says that the Earth will be stretched then that means it is saying that it will be stretched in the same way that it has already been.

When the other verses in the Qur'an state that the Earth has been stretched, it is stating that it has been stretched in a way that makes the Earth's surface comfortable for us to live on (discussed earlier in this article).

But when Surah 84:3 states that the Earth will be stretched, it is saying that it will be stretched in a way that will be destructive (just see the verse right after it)



Tafsir Jalalayn states:

and when the earth is stretched out, [when] its width is increased, just as a piece of leather is stretched, so that no edifice or mountain remains upon it, (Jalal ud-Din Siyuti, Tafsir al-Jalalayn, Commentary on Surah 84:3, Source)



Ibn Abbass states:

(And when the earth is spread out) like the spreading out of a flat plain; and it is also said this means: when the earth is removed from its place and then flattened. (Ibn Abbaas, Tanwîr al-Miqbâs min Tafsîr Ibn 'Abbâs, Commentary on Surah 84:3, Source)


Therefore, when the Qur'an states that the Earth will stretch it does not contradict the other verses that say that the Earth has already been stretched because both verses are talking about two different kinds of stretches and events.

We are going to look at each of Shamoun's points and I will show that it is possible to reasonably interpret the verse in a way in which it doesn't necessarily show that it is teaching a flat Earth

Kai, see twisting of facts! The man even had to admit that it is possible to reasonably interpret because he knew the chance of rational explanation is slim but he would try and reasonably interpret. Chai!

Imagine yourself as a companion of Mohammed in those years and were asked how you view the earth OF COURSE you would say its flat BECAUSE you didn't know better. THATS WHAT MOHAMMED SAID. pure and simple. Now we have a legion of apologetics trying to twist the fact of his statement to fit modern science.

Its a simple fact. Mohammed didn't know and he showed his ignorance.

If he knew he would have made definite sentences like the earth is round, the earth goes round the sun and so on. Not this mistakes some people are trying to correct. OPEN YOUR EYES.

LagosShia:

Question: Allah says: "So let man see from what he is created. He is created from a water gushing forth - proceeding from between the backbone and the ribs" [Sûrah al-Târiq: 5-7]

This verse states that Fluid originates from between the ribs and the spine. The problem is that it is a known fact Fluid is created in the testicles. What is more disturbing is that this same idea was espoused in ancient Greece by Hippocrates about 1100 years before the time of Muhammad (peace be upon him).


It is inconceivable that the true word of Allah could ever contradict scientific fact, since the universe is Allah's creation, and Allah fully knows what He created.

What we are dealing with here is a gross error in translation and not a scientific error at all.

The Prophet obviously copied. He copied even errors. And his apologetics claim it was an error in translation- trying to forge meaning into inaccuracies. Then maybe the Quran as we know it is full of errors and unreliable (assuming its the word of God).

And what about stories found in the Quran from other civilizations prior to islam? Lets assume that what the writer above is saying is true (that Hippocrates espoused a similar story - I have no idea if this is true yet) and the reply didn't debunk the link between Hippocrates and Mohammed (I expected him to) it easy to see the a pattern of copying.

Reminds me of someone who told a story of his classmate who cheated in an exam by copying from another. He was so engrossed in copying that he even copied his colleague's name and number onto his paper!

Nobody would even think for a moment that Hippocrates was right in his thinking, but a similar error is what Mohammed made here and all sorts of excuses are being made.

brentkruge:

The Prophet obviously copied. He copied even errors. And his apologetics claim it was an error in translation- trying to forge meaning into inaccuracies. Then maybe the Quran as we know it is full of errors and unreliable (assuming its the word of God).

And what about stories found in the Quran from other civilizations prior to islam? Lets assume that what the writer above is saying is true (that Hippocrates espoused a similar story - I have no idea if this is true yet) and the reply didn't debunk the link between Hippocrates and Mohammed (I expected him to) it easy to see the a pattern of copying.

Reminds me of someone who told a story of his classmate who cheated in an exam by copying from another. He was so engrossed in copying that he even copied his colleague's name and number onto his paper!

Nobody would even think for a moment that Hippocrates was right in his thinking, but a similar error is what Mohammed made here and all sorts of excuses are being made.

LagosShia:

[size=18pt]Rebuttal to Sam Shamoun's Article "The Qur'an and The Shape of The Earth"[/size]
http://www.call-to-monotheism.com/rebuttal_to_sam_shamoun_s_article__the_qur_an_and_the_shape_of_the_earth_

By Bassam Zawadi

The main purpose of this article is to show that it cannot be proven that the Qur'an or authentic hadeeth teach anything contrary to science.

Sure, it is possible that some early Muslims [either be companions of the Prophet (peace be upon him) or scholars] might have believed in things contrary to science, but that does not pose a threat to Islam if the Qur'an and authentic Sunnah do not agree with them.

To prove Islam false by simply appealing to scholars or early Muslims is just as wrong as appealing to some early Christians who believed that the earth was flat (see here)

The official and orthodox Islamic position is that the earth is round and spherical:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flat_Earth#Islamic_World

http://www.ahlalhdeeth.com/vbe/showpost.php?p=10586&postcount=5

http://www.55a.net/eng/24.htm

http://www.fatwa-online.com/fataawa/miscellaneous/miscellaneous/0040819.htm

http://www.elnaggarzr.com/en/main.php?id=32

http://www.miraclesofthequran.com/scientific_15.html

http://quranicteachings.co.uk/earth-shape.htm

http://islamicvoice.com/April2007/QuestionHour-DrZakirNaik/?PHPSESSID=731e6ee239994da62538bd0725

http://www.ummah.com/ifsa/pages/section3/astronomy/astro6c.htm

!!!!!    Removed for Brevity

Common bro, we have been here before, do you really think anyone will read your 12 page update talk less of your numerous www links.

Common man , let's trash these issues in short summaries with one or 2 references.

Thanks,

^^^^^^^ and other anti thinking people: I deal with fuel and no one has told me to buy water for any kind of burning before.

Are the disbelievers wanting to know if Allah mentioned stones as a fuel? Yes. Stone is mentioned as a fuel of hell fire, along with disbelieving men being fuel of hell, too.

One will wonder which is more of a fuel between water and stone. Stone is not used to quench fire, while water in fire hydrant [they must have it in great britain, mr. frosbel?] is used by fire fighters/fire brigade to stop fire.

When Allah therefore allows fire to cascade on the ocean, even boiling the water, is this not enough for people of understanding that the Quran is from The All Knowing?

Interestingly man is made of soil/mud/clay [family of stone] and water.

Hydrogen is combustible.

so is oxygen.

Their Creator made a balance between them in chemical bonding constitution of water.

This is a great testament of the existence of God, Allah The Almighty.

@ Lagoshia you have really tried God give you more wisdom to preach Islam and the rest of brothers and sisters in Islam

bashy_demy:

@ Lagoshia you have really tried God give you more wisdom to preach Islam and the rest of brothers and sisters in Islam

ameen brother!!!!

may God reward you too!!!

inshaAllah our hearts would be illuminated with light and our eyes brighten with knowledged while the hypocrites dwell and sink deeper in their ignorance and evil schemes.

^^^^ Amin brother how was your night?

^^^^

Alhamdulillah!hope yours was great too!!!

thanks.

I don't agree with all of this guy's thinking but you can see that he is willing to learn and made some interesting observations here http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread545618/pg1

The Nairaland "Crusders" cannot think for themselves- obviously.