Nihilist:




Mata received the more passes than any other Chelsea midfielder that year, indicating that the whole team was constantly looking to get him on the ball as he was the focal point of the midfield play.

In addition to receiving the ball more than any other Chelsea midfielder, Mata was also registering more touches of the ball than any other player, indicating that he was having time to dwell on the ball a bit longer than anyone else, before he picked out a pass.

He was directly involved in 36.9% of all of Chelsea's league goals.


Finally he created chances quicker and in more volume than any other Chelsea player.

If that's not a playmaker, then I don't know what your definition of playmaker is.

Shirley07:

The answer lies in your post. The team was built around Mata and he was the focal point of that team. Even then, he dictated nada.
And you were saying?

Shirley07:

Nope.
You know why Southampton are on the losing end lately? Because Morgan Schnerderlin, their deeplying playmaker is out injured. Check all their losses, includind their defeat against City, you would notice it coincinded with the absence of Morgan. Even City were only able to get through them after Morgan was subbed out due to injury.

Does Morgan creates many chances per game? Nope. Because that's Tadic's job but why is Tadic finding it difficult to create? Because he has no one to knit play behind him and provide him with the incisive passes.

You're right that playmakers should be the one with the most touches and passes but it is not always like that due to various reasons. First, the position of the playmaker may be of hindrance. For example, Silva have to drift into the centre to get more touches but when he's unable to do this, he's liable to get few touches.

Secondly, inability of the team mates to recognizing the actual playmaker and this is also the fault of coach. For example, Chelsea players didn't recognize Oscar as the actual playmaker, they probably thought that Mata is the playmaker since the team was built around Mata. However, the player that actually made play happened was Oscar, even with the little touches he had. Same thing happened with Mata and Kagawa in the games against Newcastle, Aston Villa, Westham e.t.c. Everyone defered to Mata in those games but Kagawa was the playmaker.
In a right set up and with an insightful coach, the playmaker gets more touches on the ball.

Nihilist:


So the players thought Mata was the playmaker, and Mata performed as the playmaker, but OSCAR was the real playmaker?

Yet us Chelsea fans are unintelligent buffoons.

Nihilist:


He dictated nada?

So what was he doing when he was having more passes and touches of the ball than any other Chelsea player?
Playing draught?

Shirley07:

Eating bole.
Mata is a fraud, always taking the glory of others doing the hardwork. Thank God he's been found out.
How can a player who is allergic to the midfield be a playmaker? Shior.

coogar:


southampton are on the losing end because they have been found out, their luck has run out, they are now facing a higher quality of opposition, etc. it's too simplistic to put it down on the injured schnerderlin. southampton have won games in the past without him.



tadic isn't finding it difficult to create chances....he created 5 chances(open play) against united only a week ago.



silva & mata played exactly in the same position in 11/12. mata was drafted left of the attack that season even when most pundits thought he should be played centrally.



this is the most hilarious comment ever.
what do you take players & managers for? do you know how many drills, trainings, instructions, simulations, etc that these players go through before games?

how can chelsea players not recognise their playmaker when they musta drilled & simulated their coming game in training all week? the player with the most toüches is the playmaker - it's not coincidence that other players look for him for inspiration - that's the tactical approach the manager must have drilled into them.

Shirley07:

You mean half chances and chances gifted to him by our players.
The truth is since Morgan's injury, they have never been the same. Even their chairman said he can sell all of their players but not Morgan because he's the most difficult player to replace.

You can keep going round in circles, it won't change the cold fact that the Saints begin to drop point as soon as Morgan was out injured.

For the umpeteeth time, there's no comparisom between Mata and Silva. Infact, Mata isn't fit to lace Silva's boot. Silva is a god of football on his own.

What can I say about coaches, some are stupid, lacking insight and some don't even know the ability of their players nor how to utilize them to get the best out of them. Some are stubborn like Van Gaal while some only recognize big names without looking at what skill-set these players brings into the team e.g Moyes. So, tell me more

coogar:


juan mata is a fraud?
mata of life is a fraud? are you high on shekpe? if chelsea didn't have an out of form torres on their books in the first 2 seasons, mata would have recorded 30 league assists per season.

you have to be intelligent to do this....



can you see the slide-rule pass to rooney? fat rooney messed it up & the ball fell back to mata. another player would have taken the shot then but mata isn't just another player....his vision told him van persie is better placed to score.


this is pure intelligence at it's best....

coogar:


juan mata is a fraud?
mata of life is a fraud? are you high on shekpe? if chelsea didn't have an out of form torres on their books in the first 2 seasons, mata would have recorded 30 league assists per season.

you have to be intelligent to do this....



can you see the slide-rule pass to rooney? fat rooney messed it up & the ball fell back to mata. another player would have taken the shot then but mata isn't just another player....his vision told him van persie is better placed to score.


this is pure intelligence at it's best....

coogar:


carrick is a deep-lying playmaker - you are a big olodo. you don't even know carrick dictate play from the deep. all those long balls like the one hernandez scored against chelsea is a final pass. his examples are pirlo, modric & xabi fücking alonso.

Shirley07:

From free kicks and cornerkicks?
The likes of Ibra, Messi, even Rooney makes that pass often. That doesn't make them playmakers.
Mata's a fraud and it's not a coincidence that as soon he left, Chelsea became much better against City, Liverpool and all those teams with pressing midfield they often find difficult to face.
Mata is a luxury player. The team have to uplift him instead of him uplifting the team.

There is nothing special in that pass, except for those who probably didnt kick a ball. I will make that pass without thinking I have done something special.

Even, RVP raised his hands calling for the pass. Even a blind player would have seen RVP.

Shirley07:

From free kicks and cornerkicks?
The likes of Ibra, Messi, even Rooney makes that pass often. That doesn't make them playmakers.

Mata's a fraud and it's not a coincidence that as soon he left, Chelsea became much better against City, Liverpool and all those teams with pressing midfield they often find difficult to face.

Mata is a luxury player. The team have to uplift him instead of him uplifting the team.

elampiro:

You are the baba olodo. Carrick created a key pass from long ball every 628 minutes. Young 105 mins, Giggs 122 mins, Nani 124 mins, Val 176 mins (defender/winger and created mostly from open play), Jones 355 mins, Evra 463 mins.
You said playmaking is about creating chances. If that is the case, how did Carrick get into your list? Carrick was behind 12 players- Nani, Val, Giggs, Young, Anderson, Rooney, Welbeck Scholes, Hernadez, Fletcher and Evra in creativity/minute.
Top Assists- Val 13, Nani 10, Giggs 8, Young 7

Carrick's (only) quality over other players that season was his passing. He was our top passer in 2011/12 season. That meant he was the one who held our play together with his knitting passes that season.

elampiro:


There is nothing special in that pass, except for those who probably didnt kick a ball. I will make that pass without thinking I have done something special.

Even, RVP raised his hands calling for the pass. Even a blind player would have seen RVP.

coogar:


you are a dullard
is carrick a playmaker or not? that's the crux of the matter. this is probably your first time of hearing the term deep-lying playmaker - you should be paying me for the education you get from me.

if you knew carrick was a playmaker, you wouldn't have made the other idiötic statement about what carrick was doing on the list as if i was the one that created the list. fact remains carrick was the deep-lying playmaker making the "assist of the assists" to the wingers who were supplying our strikers.

this is another big discovery that rooney wasn't in the hole in 11/12 like you have lied to us for years. the route to attack that year was carrick to the wingers to the strikers. a deep-lying playmaker can go direct to the strikers or make assist of assists. another football education for you.

www.nairaland.com/attachments/1944351_image_jpeg9f360c5ab7736510df54c882e9dbf188

elampawa, who is your daddy in this game?

coogar:


how did they lose to spurs & liverpool with schnerderlin on the pitch?



they dropped 7 points when he was in the team. what the chairman said is typical in england. some players become legends while on the bench cos everyone somehow feels if they are fit to play, they would get victories for their team.



defensively, silva is better.
when it comes to the attacking side of football, mata shytes on silva over & over again. it's shouldn't even be compared.



so in your opinion, oscar is a better player than mata?

coogar:


it was nothing special but rooney failed to complete the easier pass to van persie? rooney saw van persie at the far post & yet he still played a rubbish pass that was easily cut off when he should be bending the pass out of reach of the covering defenders.....

elampiro:
Deep lying playmaker and Advanced playmaker are different from playmaker. We are talking about a playmaker here and not a specific role. When you say an Advanced playmaker, it means the CM. An Advanced playmaker means an AM. But a playmaker could mean anyone in the team, irrespective of his position, who obviously dictates the direction of play for the whole team. He controls the flow of the team's build up. He might also have goal scoring ability as well as the final pass. This is why Zidane is the best example ahead of Xavi, Scholes and Pirlo.

elampiro:

Anything could happen in a match- like RVP missing from 7 yards from Vals pass. That was a tap in. So forget that Rooney's pass which was intercepted. Rooney has given far more quality passes like the one for Valencia to score Leverkusen. To RVP against Villa. Sexy pass to Di Maria to score a classical chip. More and more and more.

Mata's pass was ordinary. I will pass it even under tight marking. RVP was all alone and no body on the way.

Shirley07:


I do admire these kind of players not only because of their skill set but because of their brain which are constantly working and in control.
As for Oscar being better than Mata? Yes, he is. Oscar has better pace, better control of the ball in tight places, better awareness, better dribbling to open up space and above all, can orchestrate play.
The only thing Mata has above him is his vision which he can only display in the final third but in the midfield, he's a lost puppy; that's if he doesn't lose the ball to begin with. Oscar is also defensively better than Mata. Enough said.

Shirley07:

Can you tell me one CL game where Mata had Silva vs barca esque performance against a top team? I bet you can't find one.
To top it, Silva always make Mata his bitch everytime he encountered him against Chelsea or Manutd. That should tell you there's no comparison.

Against Spur, Saints were up against their former manager who knows them in and out. All it takes is to tell one of his player to stick close to Morgan and mark him out. Against Pool, it was just badluck.

The chairman comment on Morgan wasn't just a typical comment of an English man. Morgan merits that praise as his performance have been nothing short of fantastic. He's even gotten himself into the France team. Let me also made it known that the Saints refused Arsenal when they inquire about him during the window. That tells you how important he is to them.

Why do you think Southampton were still able to do well after being stripped of their better players e.g Lallana, Lambert, Shaw, Chamber, Lovren e.t.c? Because Southampton didn't sell the brain of the team.

I do admire these kind of players not only because of their skill set but because of their brain which are constantly working and in control.

As for Oscar being better than Mata? Yes, he is. Oscar has better pace, better control of the ball in tight places, better awareness, better dribbling to open up space and above all, can orchestrate play.

The only thing Mata has above him is his vision which he can only display in the final third but in the midfield, he's a lost puppy; that's if he doesn't lose the ball to begin with. Oscar is also defensively better than Mata. Enough said.

coogar:


if you are too old to cope with the discourse, why not just retire & stay at home?

coogar:

the pass to di maria was a bad pass - di maria had to improvise & nothing was in front of rooney to make that pass......
it wasn't ordinary because he had the self control to be selfless & play the ball to a better-placed team mate. if that was rooney, he would have taken a shot that would have been blocked cos rooney is the most predictable player in the world!

coogar:


messi passes the ball better than silva.



as soon as he left, chelsea won nothing. while he was there, they won champions league, europa league & other domestic competitions.

chelsea won 0 titles when mata left.



i like your usage of the word luxury - it simply means mata is a star player. put him anywhere & his stats speak for itself. how many goals has he scored now this season despite his limited number of minutes.




you are a dullard
is carrick a playmaker or not? that's the crux of the matter. this is probably your first time of hearing the term deep-lying playmaker - you should be paying me for the education you get from me.

if you knew carrick was a playmaker, you wouldn't have made the other idiötic statement about what carrick was doing on the list as if i was the one that created the list. fact remains carrick was the deep-lying playmaker making the "assist of the assists" to the wingers who were supplying our strikers.

this is another big discovery that rooney wasn't in the hole in 11/12 like you have lied to us for years. the route to attack that year was carrick to the wingers --> wingers to the strikers. a deep-lying playmaker can go direct to the strikers or make assist of assists. another football education for you.

www.nairaland.com/attachments/1944351_image_jpeg9f360c5ab7736510df54c882e9dbf188

elampawa, who is your daddy in this game?

Nihilist:


This kain highness? On a Monday?

elampiro:

I was trying to differentiate three things. Deep lying playmaker (CM), Adanced playmaker(am) and playmaker.

* Rooney, under immense pressure played a sexy through pass to Di Maria.

* Rooney is the most predictable player? Yet he keeps sending keepers the wrong way from 15 to 25 yards open play shots?

Nihilist:

This kain highness? On a Monday?

Shirley07:

No doubt Messi has a good vision but can't be compared to Silva. Silva orchestrate play, Messi don't.
And don't get it twisted, Chelsea CL and f.a cup win were all on Drogba, Lampard and all the members of park the bus gadgets which include Terry, Luiz, Ramirez, Mikel Obi e.t.c. Mata did nada in those games. Such a fraud.

Shirley07:

Can you tell me one CL game where Mata had Silva vs barca esque performance against a top team? I bet you can't find one.
To top it, Silva always make Mata his bitch everytime he encountered him against Chelsea or Manutd. That should tell you there's no comparison.
Against Spur, Saints were up against their former manager who knows them in and out. All it takes is to tell one of his player to stick close to Morgan and mark him out. Against Pool, it was just badluck.
The chairman comment on Morgan wasn't just a typical comment of an English man. Morgan merits that praise as his performance have been nothing short of fantastic. He's even gotten himself into the France team. Let me also made it known that the Saints refused Arsenal when they inquire about him during the window. That tells you how important he is to them.
Why do you think Southampton were still able to do well after being stripped of their better players e.g Lallana, Lambert, Shaw, Chamber, Lovren e.t.c? Because Southampton didn't sell the brain of the team.
I do admire these kind of players not only because of their skill set but because of their brain which are constantly working and in control.
As for Oscar being better than Mata? Yes, he is. Oscar has better pace, better control of the ball in tight places, better awareness, better dribbling to open up space and above all, can orchestrate play.
The only thing Mata has above him is his vision which he can only display in the final third but in the midfield, he's a lost puppy; that's if he doesn't lose the ball to begin with. Oscar is also defensively better than Mata. Enough said.

Dadehmola:
Nihilist, was riquelme a playmaker or not? If he was, what particular quality did he posses that made him one?

leggo:
And oscar? The only thing Oscar does better than Mata is clear the ball, yet he is the playmaker? Logic fails again