I don't understand the much emphasis on No. 10s tho.
There can be very creative players from other positions.
Until this man-behind-striker became this popular, default formations used to be with striker partners where creativity came primarily from the flanks & between the strikers setting up themselves. I remember quite a number of dark men excel in these type of partnerships. Andy & Dwight easily come to mind.

SailorXY:
I don't understand the much emphasis on No. 10s tho.
There can be very creative players from other positions.
Until this man-behind-striker became this popular, default formations used to be with striker partners where creativity came primarily from the flanks & between the strikers setting up themselves. I remember quite a number of dark men excel in these type of partnerships. Andy & Dwight easily come to mind.

I know for particular that in the 50s, 10s represented a different position for players on the pitch.
Don't mind Nihilist. It's obvious he's being very mischievous thinking that 10s are the definition of creativity/intelligence in a player. Then i wonder how players like Redondo or Beckenbauer became regarded as very creative or intelligent even when they weren't 10s.

GBR1:
Kevin prince Boateng, Nabir Fekir, Mane, Andre Ayew or even Eto, Toure are better 10s than any of the waste men you mentioned. I have given yoi enough names. But why did you have to narrow it down to number 10? I'm gonna end the use of this poor analysis you are employing ridiculous logic to manipulate, just watch.

See above.
I gave you Tim howard, now you're denying he's black when he's know as that in his own country. He's a fecking black american. I won't even debate this any further.
I don't remember Pogba being deployed as a defensive midfielder. At worse he's a B2B in a pivot. He's actually an attacking midfielder and a very creative one at that but you're only changing the narrative to help pass a point that won't even help you. You are being untruthful here. I just went through your initial posts and i saw how much you have changed the base of the argument. You first stated that blacks were less technically gifted than their white counterpart and that's why they often ended up as defenders or in defensive positions. Then i gave you the list of some of the best attacking talents ever seen who were black and you narrowed your argument to creative midfielders when i have already given you someone like Gullit who was quite extraordinary. Then things got too difficult for you to handle again, so you starting asking for those kind of players in the last 10 years.
I'm sure if we go on, you'll start asking for two footed non athletic very creative black midfielders who have played for top footballing clubs/nations in the last 7 days.

This argument was never gonna work for you and now you have put yourself in a terrible position.

More waste men to further your point. What about China or India with more population than the entire Africa? Please name their creative midfielders. Soon you'll say the Indians and Chinese(over 2 billion people combined) are not intelligent enough and Africa has produced far more than them.

How many world class players have Armenia produced FFS?
Yaya Toure will retire having a better career playing for top clubs than any of those waste men you mentioned. At least those black players like Viera, Thuram were world class playing at the absolute top level in their positions something none of those waste men you mentioned were capable of.

Nihilist this debate is stale already and i don't see myself going on with it. You haven't brought up anything new that i did not destroy with my first shot at it and if this argument wasn't so ridiculous to begin with, you'll be doing better than this and you know that. Just let it go and move on.

Kevin Prince is another strong player whose game is based on pace and power not creativity as I'm sure you know. Nabil Fekir is not black. Andrew Ayew is not a 10 or a creative type. Mane is a Winger.

This the exact same thing I'm talking about. You can't actually give me a Black guy like you and me that plays that position as a creative type.

Pogba is a B2B but isnt that the point? Nobody is denying his skill, but Pogba's game really is about driving runs, pace and power.

I deliberately did not mention Tim Howard because I hoped you would ignore the low hanging fruit.

My position on this has been very simple. Black players are rarely seen in positions on the pitch that heavily require technical skill. That's why there are no black analogues for the Silvas Cazorlas and Fabregas's of this world.

Instead, you like many others, have been reaching for Arabs and mixed race players to claim as Black...from Zidane to Nabil Fekir to Benzema.

My son is mixed race...and Fekir is lighter than him.

Black indeed.

GBR1:
I know for particular that in the 50s, 10s represented a different position for players on the pitch.
Don't mind Nihilist. It's obvious he's being very mischievous thinking that 10s are the definition of creativity/intelligence in a player. Then i wonder how players like Redondo or Beckenbauer became regarded as very creative or intelligent even when they weren't 10s.

I mentioned Pirlo, Modric, etc.

Truth is you won't find a pure black player there...and if you remember the origin of the argument, we were talking about 'ugly black players' to quote dopejemi.

Nihilist:


I mentioned Pirlo, Modric, etc.

Truth is you won't find a pure black player there...and if you remember the origin of the argument, we were talking about 'ugly black players' to quote dopejemi.

What is pure black player again? Must they be extremely dark like Mane or Pele? How do you know Pele wasn't mixed either? He was a Brazilian and a lot of them are mixed
Soon you'll claim he's not black. When you mentioned Depay earlier for your intents, i didn't take you up on it; Is Depay a pure black player?

Stop being mischievous!

GBR1:

What is pure black player again? Must they be extremely dark like Mane or Pele? How do you know Pele wasn't mixed either? He was a Brazilian and a lot of them are mixed
Soon you'll claim he's not black. When you mentioned Depay earlier for your intents, i didn't take you up on it; Is Depay a pure black player?

Stop being mischievous!

Oga look in the mirror.

That is what black looks like.

How many players that look like you play in creative positions in Europe?

Either as a 10 a la Silva or a deep lying Playmaker like Fabregas.

I will admit mixed race playears for sake of discussion, but Arabs?

Come off it man.

Arabs are not black.

Brazilians are completely mixed and have already been classed as south American, so let's leave them out tesco conversation. Neymar is on record as stating that he is not black sef...

The main guys are Blacks, either born in Africa or in diaspora that have at least one pure black parent.

Please submit your answer.

Nihilist:


Kevin Prince is another strong player whose game is based on pace and power not creativity as I'm sure you know. Nabil Fekir is not black. Andrew Ayew is not a 10 or a creative type. Mane is a Winger.

This the exact same thing I'm talking about. You can't actually give me a Black guy like you and me that plays that position as a creative type.

Pogba is a B2B but isnt that the point? Nobody is denying his skill, but Pogba's game really is about driving runs, pace and power.

I deliberately did not mention Tim Howard because I hoped you would ignore the low hanging fruit.

My position on this has been very simple. Black players are rarely seen in positions on the pitch that heavily require technical skill. That's why there are no black analogues for the Silvas Cazorlas and Fabregas's of this world.

Instead, you like many others, have been reaching for Arabs and mixed race players to claim as Black...from Zidane to Nabil Fekir to Benzema.

My son is mixed race...and Fekir is lighter than him.

Black indeed.

Is Zidane a mixed race?
He's of pure Algeria berber descent!
My point is as long as you have black features, you're a black man and people will definitely call you one as they did to Alves and even Zidane at the worldcup..
Moreso, the likes of Ronaldo De lima, Pele were technically gifted players who could slot easily as second strikers without any problem in their game, even Neymar is at his best as a false 9. The likes of Kante, Pogba also have good technique to operate in the midfield. Hence, I wouldn't say technique is lacking in black players.
If you had hammered on the intelligence to orchestrate play in the midfield, I could have tried to reason along with you but the technical aspect is a no no for me. And talking about intelligence, Kante was seen dictating the play for France in their first game against Romania and he's one of the intelligent players I've ever seen.

SIRcumalot:

I'll do the same too.
this profiling is partly responsible

True.

If Iheanacho were from Brazil or Spain, he would have been retained and trained in the number 10 role where he won tournament best player.

Nihilist:


Oga look in the mirror.

That is what black looks like.

How many players that look like you play in creative positions in Europe?

Either as a 10 a la Silva or a deep lying Playmaker like Fabregas.

I will admit mixed race playears for sake of discussion, but Arabs?

Come off it man.

Arabs are not black.

Brazilians are completely mixed and have already been classed as south American, so let's leave them out tesco conversation. Neymar is on record as stating that he is not black sef...

The main guys are Blacks, either born in Africa or in diaspora that have at least one pure black parent.

Please submit your answer.

How did this argument dissolve in 10s? tell me, did we start with this?
Oh you knew this, now tell me why you mentioned Depay earlier as a black player when he's so light but yet deny that Ronaldinho, Ronaldo etc are black players? Or you'd say Pele is mixed and isn't black because he was a South American? And now you are saying you won't accept south Americans even the mixed ones as black? We both know why though; your argument would get completely obliterated by examples of AMs like Ronaldinho if you do, it's that obvious. When it favors your argument a player is black, but a similar player is not black when he's an exception to your argument. You have finally cornered yourself, what else would you say? Well done.

You should have moved on before it reduced to this. This is what happens when your argument is a proper ''bad market''.

How can Portugal draw with Iceland
This Euro just dey pay Nairabet

Nihilist:


Oga look in the mirror.

That is what black looks like.

How many players that look like you play in creative positions in Europe?

Either as a 10 a la Silva or a deep lying Playmaker like Fabregas.

I will admit mixed race playears for sake of discussion, but Arabs?

Come off it man.

Arabs are not black.

Brazilians are completely mixed and have already been classed as south American, so let's leave them out tesco conversation. Neymar is on record as stating that he is not black sef...

The main guys are Blacks, either born in Africa or in diaspora that have at least one pure black parent.

Please submit your answer.

After what Iheanacho did at the Junior world cup from the number 10 position, if he were Brazilian or Spanish, he would already be trained and made to under study Silva in that position. Or he would have been allowed to bring his own style with his sense of goals scoring and Assist into that position. But he is black, they already have positions carved out for whites.

chrisley024:
How can Portugal draw with Iceland
This Euro just dey pay Nairabet

Portugal has no playing pattern. And they didn't utilize the players to their fullest.

elampiro:


After what Iheanacho did at the Junior world cup from the number 10 position, if he were Brazilian or Spanish, he would already be trained and made to under study Silva in that position. Or he would have been allowed to bring his own style with his sense of goals scoring and Assist into that position. But he is black, they already have positions carved out for whites.

Can you imagine? He's been converted to a striker at City.

Nihilist:


Kevin Prince is another strong player whose game is based on pace and power not creativity as I'm sure you know. Nabil Fekir is not black.

Pogba is a B2B but isnt that the point? Nobody is denying his skill, but Pogba's game really is about driving runs, pace and power.

My position on this has been very simple. Black players are rarely seen in positions on the pitch that heavily require technical skill. That's why there are no black analogues for the Silvas Cazorlas and Fabregas's of this world.

Instead, you like many others, have been reaching for Arabs and mixed race players to claim as Black...from Zidane to Nabil Fekir to Benzema.

Black indeed.

what I can see you driving @ is that dark players can be creative but their athleticism is more noticed. If you ask me I don't see how this should be a disadvantage to the race.
As a striker you need as much imagination to latch into good positions for the midfielder behind else they become just as useless.

Pace & good balance is just as useful cuz any team with a significant lower average speed than its opponents is already in trouble.
Reference when MUFC had Tevez Rooney Ronaldo JS Park or when Chelshit had Robben & Duff in flying mode.
Football is not a static sport.

All positions on the pitch in modern footie is highly technical, even the GK.
These days a goalkeeper is expected to do much more than just diving. His positioning, judging ball flight accurately & even ability to find his man under pressure. VdS, Buffon, Cech, Schmeichel, Kahn are GKs that did more than just dive.

David Alaba for example is very creative from the rear, just like Alvez or Evra. Their skill set is not that common in full backs, added to their pace they easily become nightmares offensively & defensively.

There's nothing Fabregas & Silva have done that Toure & Pogba are incapable of.

GBR1:
How did this argument dissolve in 10s? tell me, did we start with this?
Oh you knew this, now tell me why you mentioned Depay earlier as a black player when he's so light but yet deny that Ronaldinho, Ronaldo etc are black players? Or you'd say Pele is mixed and isn't black because he was a South American? When it favors your argument a player is black, but a similar player is not black when he's an exception to your argument. Well done.

You are appearing confused now.

I already clearly separated South Americans and Europeans as having technical talent that is not indigenous to black people.

I've given you an example of a prominent dark skinned Brazilian player that doesn't identify as 'Black' so I'm not sure why you are determined to drag them and claim them as Black.

In football, Brazilian players are seen as Brazilian so please stop going back there.

I have already said that I will accept mixed race players with at least one black parent.

Doesn't the fact that you have to keep reaching out to people that don't look like you tell you something?

In America, Arabs have been classed as white since 1977....so if you and Fekir, Zidane and Benzema go to the white house today, you guys are not in the same category.

Give me artists that look like you as were originally referred to by Dopejemi

. Instead you've gone all over the globe to claim people who would be surprised to hear that they are black.

Na wa ooo

Is Everton's Berkley black or white?

I keep seeing Arab. Who's Arab? Zidane? Unbelievable.

SailorXY:
what I can see you driving @ is that dark players can be creative but their athletism is more noticed. If you ask me I don't see how this should be a disadvantage to the race.
As a striker you need as much imagination to latch into good positions for the midfielder behind else they become just as useless.

Pace & good balance is just as useful cuz any team with a significant lower average speed than its opponents is already in trouble.
Reference when MUFC had Tevez Rooney Ronaldo JS Park or when Chelshit had Robben & Duff in flying mode.
Football is not a static sport.

All positions on the pitch in modern footie is highly technical, even the GK.
These days a goalkeeper is expected to do much more than just diving. His positioning, judging ball flight accurately & even ability to find his man under pressure. VdS, Buffon, Cech, Schmeichel, Kahn are GKs that did more than just dive.

David Alaba for example is very creative from the rear, just like Alvez or Evra. Their skill set is not that common in full backs, added to their pace they easily become nightmares offensively & defensively.

There's nothing Fabregas & Silva has done that Toure & Pogba are incapable of.

Athleticism is not a disadvantage at all!

My point has always been that Blacks are mainly strong and fast. That's ouright selling point.

Technical ability is not really our selling point.

The Europeans are great technicians but not necessarily great athletes.

Please if na play stop am though. Please don't compare Pogba and Toure to Silva and Fabregas. The first two cannot do what the other two can with the ball.

codedguy1:
Na wa ooo

Is Everton's Berkley black or white?

Abeg, wetin dey happen here which one be black and white argument on top ManUtd thread

If Arabs are so good at football, why isn't any good footballer coming from that region?
BtW, Zidane, Benzema are no Arab. Simple!

GBR1 let's do this another time before we bore people.

chkil:


true !.

the definition of arabs include people who speak arabic as first language , + people genetically arab

algerian , moroccan , tunisian , libyan are not arab genetically , they are berber or amazigh the indigenous ethnic group of North Africa. , after islam came they take islam and arabic language .

so yes north african are arab by language but not arab genetically , you can see the difference when you see a yemenite or saoudian

Exactly!
I don't even see any Arab features in them yet I keep hearing Arab.

GloryIsaac:


Abeg, wetin dey happen here which one be black and white argument on top ManUtd thread

Even me sef don confuse!

The argument is basically about whether white players are more technical than black players and the it becomes more interesting because we can't seem to agree who is black, mixed or Arab.

Neymar said he aint black, Zidane is Arab, are players who have one white and one black parent black, white or mixed and how the supposed complexion of a player affects his technicality.

Its interesting!

You all are killing the creativity of this thread!

Nihilist, you still managed to avoid my question about Depay?

I have moved on.

Nihilist:
GBR1 let's do this another time before we bore people.

I was bored already. Yea, another time.

Dunga has been sacked

Source : http://talksport.com/football/confirmed-dunga-sacked-brazil-manager-160614199636

This thread is like when children are playing ball aimlessly.... Someone comes, makes a controversial statement, ppl jump on it, go back n forth, forth n back for like 5days or 10 pages, then they tire out n return to some present footballing or spot event, then after some period of quietness... somebody thinks up some controversial notion sure to start an argument, then process repeats, rinse n repeat n u have pages of the most mundane arguments in football history

codedguy1:


Even me sef don confuse!

The argument is basically about whether white players are more technical than black players and the it becomes more interesting because we can't seem to agree who is black, mixed or Arab.

Neymar said he aint black, Zidane is Arab, are players who have one white and one black parent black, white or mixed and how the supposed complexion of a player affects his technicality.

Its interesting!

God dey oo

Well, i feel that a players technicality has nothing to do with his complexion....

Those who have both white and black parents are mixed already nah

I wonder why there are black south americans since they claim not to have african roots ... Could be slavery or something, weird though

chic2pimp:


First of all let me address the Rivaldo issue. Rivaldo in 1996 was still plying his trade in brazil(Did not move to Europe till the summer of 1996). So How the Hell was Amuneke ahead of him?

1997 there. Typo error.

Dadehmola:






[s]Pay him no mind - the average "Barka" fan on NL is typically ignorant & Mis-informed

What most of them know how to do best is to shout "up messi", post pictures of the club's trophy haul & ofcourse...mock Ronaldo - 90% of Barca fans on NL started watching soccer when Messi became a household name !!

It's an open secret that Van Gaal's decision to shunt Rivaldo out wide was the main reason behind their fallout but ofcourse, ignorance no gree make the guy sabi.

The fella was even cocky & confident untop the falsehood (born outta sheer ignorance) wey e wan dey spread. [/s]

Hey fella, when I say Taribo was a beast at Inter, compared to Okocha with his small clubs, you don't need to utter those trash comments even if you don't support it.

Debroslink:


Sire, with due respect, it's better to keep quiet if you don't know what's up. Taribo was a beast in the best league in the world... Serie A, playing against the likes of Vieri, Zamorano, Silas, Baggio, Zidane, Batistuta, etc. He moved from Inter to a bigger club which is Milan, and put the likes of Costacurta to a proper retirement.

As for Amunike, as at 1996, he was ahead of Rivaldo at Barcelona before injury ruined his career.



So we are talking of Nigerians at the biggest clubs, not someone that played for Frankfurt or is it Bolton.

Instead of you to keep quiet and listen to people who know better you are here exposing your ignorance.

Taribo that played 4 or 5 matches for Milan is the one that sent Billy Costacurta to retirement? The same Costacurta that played over 100 matches including Champions league final AFTER Taribo had been sent packing from the club?

Amunike ahead of Rivaldo at Barca? When and where did you get this majestic lie from?

You are the type that gives Barca fans a bad name here. And yet you came in telling someone who obviously knows better than you to keep quiet. Lol the irony

Muhammad Ali (1942-2016) – The Greatest In and Outside The Ring

Cassius Clay Sr. (Ali’s father) gave his own son the same name, Cassius M. Clay Jr., a heavyweight champion boxer who gained international renown. Couple of months after defeating Sonny Liston for the world heavyweight crown; he joined the Nation of Islam. Cassius Clay Jr., will then change his name to Muhammad Ali, after a series of events in the organization.

22 year old Ali became a heavyweight champion at a period when blacks in America were facing their worst crisis since the abolition of the slavery. Despite the presence of black civil right movement icons like Martin Luther King Jnr., Malcom X, Elijah Muhammad e.t.c, Ali instantly established himself as the voice of the struggling and impoverished African Americans in the face of white segregation and brutality. During these periods, Ali was their voice, spoke their language, and propagate their frustrations to the rest of the world........
http://africanripples.com/muhammad-ali-the-greatest-in-and-outside-the-ring/