Atheists assert that there is no God. Usually they lean on science, logic or supposedly superior arguments to assert their claims.

but lets for one minute assume that atheists/atheism is motivated by lack of answers or superstition or evidence as they claim and that science has an answer to everything, what would change in the face of science or evidences available to change your atheistic postulations?

obviously the physical healing of an amputee would not change the mind of someone like mazaje, simply because you can tell that mazaje's atheism is motivated by emotions. somewhere along the line, he prayed for something extremely important, it did not happen, he didnt bother to find out God's opinion, he just concluded that there is no God. The same story applies to a million other atheists on the face of the earth, who probably had a loved one on a sick bed dying of an incurable disease only for them to pray and still yet the person died, hence they concluded that there is no God.

Obviously, these people are misguided as they have no understanding of prayer, God, Jesus, Salvation, Miracles or Christianity. Their mental orientation involves the belief that God is like alaadin jinn, who you simply call on at any time of the day for whatever u want. is this what the scriptures teach? So we had misguided half-baked christians, with unChristlike desires suddenly bitter and professing atheism.

But the crux of the matter is that, since all atheists claim to be atheist due to prevailing evidences or lack of them to support the existence of a creator . ..the question is what evidence would suffice to change your mind? what evidence would change your present dogmatic belief?

This question is important because it allows us to separate emotional atheists from the logical ones. Logical ones lean on intelligence and idealism to argue their case and perhaps can be honest enough to admit the vulnerabilty of their argument.

so what would make you dump atheism?

mazaje, where art thou?

Loss of brain cells and reason, I suspect. If someone finds the physical works well for him, the physical may have to collapse in order to force him seek a solution from the 'unseen'

Change one's mind about what?
Shockingly, most so-called theists just dont understand athiesm. You still hold firmly that athiesm is either a competing religion or some kind of rebellion against something or someone. Speaking for myself and perhaps a few other athiests, the truth is that we have long transcended that level of reasoning, so its way beyond changing one's mind. Using my children as examples,while they were crawling, we tried everything to encourage them to stand walk because they were afraid of falling. So it took a while and lots of encouragements to get them to stand firmly and walk without handholding. When their courage was strong enough and their footings strong enough,they walked , ran and explored their environment with their newfound abilties. It became more difficult to get them to sit down.I doubt very very much If I could ever convince them with whatever new evidence that crawling on four limbs was the best thing for them.
Do you think it is possible?

And your reference to healing an amputee through prayer, What exactly does that mean? Do you mean using prayer to make the linbs grow back or do you mean walking normaly without limbs. Pls explain.

musKeeto: Loss of brain cells and reason, I suspect. If someone finds the physical works well for him, the physical may have to collapse in order to force him seek a solution from the 'unseen'

how does the physical work well? being financially buoyant or what?

plaetton: Change one's mind about what?
Shockingly, most so-called theists just dont understand athiesm. You still hold firmly that athiesm is either a competing religion or some kind of rebellion against something or someone. Speaking for myself and perhaps a few other athiests, the truth is that we have long transcended that level of reasoning, so its way beyond changing one's mind. Using my children examples,while they crawling, we tried everything to encourage them to stand walk because they were afraid of falling. So it took a while and lots of encouragements to get them to stand firmly and walk without handholding. When their courage was strong enough and their footings strong enough,they walked , ran and explored their environment with their newfound abilties. It became more difficult to get them to sit down.I doubt very very much If I could ever convince them with whatever new evidence that crawling on four limbs was the best thing for them.
Do you think it is possible?

And your reference to healing an amputee through prayer, What exactly does that mean? Do you mean using prayer to make the linbs grow back or do you mean walking normaly without limbs. Pls explain.

1. Perhaps, you are the party guilty of ignorance here. Atheism rightly denotes the denouncement of religion whose central point is the existence of a deity. Atheism asserts the non-existence of a creator/God.

2. You are either a logical or emotional atheist. If your basis of your disbelief cannot be constructed within the limits of human intelligence, then there is no basis for your belief. Your children example does not add up, it has no basis in this discourse. Your children crawl and walk by natural instinct. However if you choose to disregard the notion that intelligence begets intelligence, it must be either because you have a superior argument/evidence or you are simply an ignoramus.

3. The amputee healing assertion was simply to humour mazaje, I am sure he understands

The instant healing of an amputee, i.e means full restoration of the amputees limbs to how it was before it was amputated will make me believe. . .My lack of belief is NOT based on the fact that I have a sick friend or "unanswered prayers" as you've put it, it is simply based on the FACT that ALL Gods are man made. . .Nothing more nothing less. . .

All things are children of the stars including man himself.The same that made the iron what it is made man,that we begin to add meaning to the world we live in is because we begin to put one and two together to make three.If not we are just as good as metal itself,an object that thinks he is thinking.

The world exist in our minds.

@noetic16.
You opened up a thread for discussion and so early in the debate you are already getting personal by refereing to someone as ignorant and an ignoramus. That is very immature. I guess I gave you more credit than you deserved.
There is no point posting on this thread.

plaetton: @noetic16.
You opened up a thread for discussion and so early in the debate you are already getting personal by refereing to someone as ignorant and an ignoramus. That is very immature. I guess I gave you more credit than you deserved.
There is no point posting on this thread.

I did not mean to unearth you, I am an old timer on NL. Ignoramus is usually used here to imply that one has a superior a superior argument to the other. It has in that context lost its insultive connotation. Non-the-less I do apologise. I only highlighted the difference in our submissions. My statement is equivalent to yours that suggested that theists do not understand atheism.

did u say immature? I laugh in arabic (Thats another NL parlance)

Your contributions are welcome regardless of whether or not we disagree.

noetic16: Atheists assert that there is no God. Usually they lean on science, logic or supposedly superior arguments to assert their claims.

but lets for one minute assume that atheists/atheism is motivated by lack of answers or superstition or evidence as they claim and that science has an answer to everything, what would change in the face of science or evidences available to change your atheistic postulations?

obviously the physical healing of an amputee would not change the mind of someone like mazaje, simply because you can tell that mazaje's atheism is motivated by emotions. somewhere along the line, he prayed for something extremely important, it did not happen, he didnt bother to find out God's opinion, he just concluded that there is no God. The same story applies to a million other atheists on the face of the earth, who probably had a loved one on a sick bed dying of an incurable disease only for them to pray and still yet the person died, hence they concluded that there is no God.

Obviously, these people are misguided as they have no understanding of prayer, God, Jesus, Salvation, Miracles or Christianity. Their mental orientation involves the belief that God is like alaadin jinn, who you simply call on at any time of the day for whatever u want. is this what the scriptures teach? So we had misguided half-baked christians, with unChristlike desires suddenly bitter and professing atheism.

But the crux of the matter is that, since all atheists claim to be atheist due to prevailing evidences or lack of them to support the existence of a creator . ..the question is what evidence would suffice to change your mind? what evidence would change your present dogmatic belief?

This question is important because it allows us to separate emotional atheists from the logical ones. Logical ones lean on intelligence and idealism to argue their case and perhaps can be honest enough to admit the vulnerabilty of their argument.

so what would make you dump atheism?

Well, you could start by showing credible proof that the biblical "God" you worship is indeed the creator of earth and mankind as we know it (without referring to the bible of course). As you well know, defending Christianity with the bible is as dumb as defending Christmas with Santa Claus!

Be original for once in your brainwashed religious life and answer the simple question squarely without beating about the bush.

harakiri:

Well, you could start by showing credible proof that the biblical "God" you worship is indeed the creator of earth and mankind as we know it (without referring to the bible of course). As you well know, defending Christianity with the bible is as dumb as defending Christmas with Santa Claus!

Before I show the credible proof at my disposal, I would like to ask . .. are u conceding that the earth has a creator? It seems like your post only requests for the identity of that creator . . .

harakiri:
Be original for once in your brainwashed religious life and answer the simple question squarely without beating about the bush.

I am the realist person around here. do i really come across as brainwashed? I laugh in german

noetic16:

how does the physical work well? being financially buoyant or what?

The physical implies 'rules' that apply to everyone no matter their spiritual disposition e.g planting a seed, giving birth, using your brains.

musKeeto:
The physical implies 'rules' that apply to everyone no matter their spiritual disposition e.g planting a seed, giving birth, using your brains.

The obvious question is how did the physical get there? what's the source of the physical? where did seeds originate from? who were the first parents to reproduce?
where did the brains originate from? dont mention evolution . . .if u do, the question is, where did the pioneer elements that kick started evolution come from?

Your notion of the physical is an illustration of taking face-value events without the need for probing evidences, unfortunately this is not enough to prove the basis of your atheistic convictions.

noetic16:

The obvious question is how did the physical get there? what's the source of the physical? where did seeds originate from? who were the first parents to reproduce?
where did the brains originate from? dont mention evolution . . .if u do, the question is, where did the pioneer elements that kick started evolution come from?

Your notion of the physical is an illustration of taking face-value events without the need for probing evidences, unfortunately this is not enough to prove the basis of your atheistic convictions.

but can you prove otherwise just by saying let there be light?

The nearest thing in man's life that adds meaning to existence is science because it kind of make something out of nothing.It brings different forces in the universe to work together as one for benefit and sometimes disadvantage of man.

noetic16:

The obvious question is how did the physical get there? what's the source of the physical? where did seeds originate from? who were the first parents to reproduce?
where did the brains originate from? dont mention evolution . . .if u do, the question is, where did the pioneer elements that kick started evolution come from?

Your notion of the physical is an illustration of taking face-value events without the need for probing evidences, unfortunately this is not enough to prove the basis of your atheistic convictions.

At least I see,hear,feel the physical. You believe in the 'unseen'... what proof do you have?
Can I feel God the way I feel the wind?

Lmao @ taking face-value events... Research and experiments, are they are also spiritual exercises?

antartica:

but can you prove otherwise just by saying let there be light?

how do u intend to measure the abilities of he who said "Let there be light"?

noetic16:

how do u intend to measure the abilities of he who said "Let there be light"?

It is no different from the yorubas mythical beliefs that oduduwa fell from heaven.It is nothing but a myth,so there is nothing to measure.You have to be superstitious to believe such a story,i am not.

When you understand the process of electricity,you will understand that it takes effort,mechanical/energetic processes and fussion for light to be conducted.You don't just say let there be light for light to come,if it is that easy nigeria would have been well lit up by now with all the prayers you guys put in for nepa to funtion properly.

The sun in its majestic opulence gives us light and to the sun we owe our existence.If there is any god that deserves worship,it is the sun because as long as the sun shines,the plants will grow,the flowers will bloom,the rivers will flow,the oceans will roar,the body will warm amd life will thrive.

antartica: The sun in its majestic opulence gives us light and to the sun we owe our existence.If there is any god that deserves worship,it is the sun because as long as the sun shines,the plants will grow,the flowers will bloom,the rivers will flow,the oceans will roar,the body will warm amd life will thrive.

and you think that the sun designed or created itself? is it a form of superstition to probe the origin of the sun? . . .please tell me, how did the sun come to being a light giver?

Any evidence will change my "postulations".

By evidence, I mean irrefutable proof. Not some silly statement like I breath so god must exist.

So please give me one simple evidence.

Logic Mind: Any evidence will change my "postulations".

By evidence, I mean irrefutable proof. Not some silly statement like I breath so god must exist.

So please give me one simple evidence.

From the above, I guess you are responsible for your breathing right?

noetic16:

From the above, I guess you are responsible for your breathing right?

Who's responsible for breathing?
I solved a Maths problem today and I got 2 as the answer. Can you tell me the exact question I solved?
The earth and all around us possesss an intricate design. This could be God or god or whatever. We keep seeking solutions, thays why we are humans..

I think I used to read on Mazaje's profile a.quote that went like this ; "Our ignorance is God, our knowledge is science"

If there's a god, he isnt bothered one bit about whats going on down here

noetic16: Atheists assert that there is no God. Usually they lean on science, logic or supposedly superior arguments to assert their claims.

but lets for one minute assume that atheists/atheism is motivated by lack of answers or superstition or evidence as they claim and that science has an answer to everything, what would change in the face of science or evidences available to change your atheistic postulations?

obviously the physical healing of an amputee would not change the mind of someone like mazaje, simply because you can tell that mazaje's atheism is motivated by emotions. somewhere along the line, he prayed for something extremely important, it did not happen, he didnt bother to find out God's opinion, he just concluded that there is no God. The same story applies to a million other atheists on the face of the earth, who probably had a loved one on a sick bed dying of an incurable disease only for them to pray and still yet the person died, hence they concluded that there is no God.

Obviously, these people are misguided as they have no understanding of prayer, God, Jesus, Salvation, Miracles or Christianity. Their mental orientation involves the belief that God is like alaadin jinn, who you simply call on at any time of the day for whatever u want. is this what the scriptures teach? So we had misguided half-baked christians, with unChristlike desires suddenly bitter and professing atheism.

But the crux of the matter is that, since all atheists claim to be atheist due to prevailing evidences or lack of them to support the existence of a creator . ..the question is what evidence would suffice to change your mind? what evidence would change your present dogmatic belief?

This question is important because it allows us to separate emotional atheists from the logical ones. Logical ones lean on intelligence and idealism to argue their case and perhaps can be honest enough to admit the vulnerabilty of their argument.

so what would make you dump atheism?

Any entity worthy of the title "God" should know me well enough to know what the necessary evidence would be even if I didn't know what it would be. So, I'll simply wait for him to present it since what people have so far based their beliefs on is pretty baseless.

musKeeto:

Who's responsible for breathing?
I solved a Maths problem today and I got 2 as the answer. Can you tell me the exact question I solved?
The earth and all around us possesss an intricate design. This could be God or god or whatever. We keep seeking solutions, thays why we are humans..

I think I used to read on Mazaje's profile a.quote that went like this ; "Our ignorance is God, our knowledge is science"

If there's a god, he isnt bothered one bit about whats going on down here

Your assertions are misinformed.

1. I cannot tell you what question you solved, simply because you could have solved any of a billion questions that leads to the answer 2. But in the case of human breathing, it is the composition of a complex structure that is part of the human body. The argument remains the same, that who or whatever is capable of designing this structure is super-intelligent.

2. Claiming that God is not bothered is also a mis-informed opinion. Have you ever bothered to read the bible? pray to God? seek answers from Him? I have tried to, and I can state that God is concerned about the state of things and things are working according to plan.

thehomer:

Any entity worthy of the title "God" should know me well enough to know what the necessary evidence would be even if I didn't know what it would be. So, I'll simply wait for him to present it since what people have so far based their beliefs on is pretty baseless.

This is quite LAZY. it explains the fact that you are an emotional atheist, without any concrete, logical reason for disbelieving the existence of God. QED.

@Op,

Simple answer. Theophany that is repeatable in front of multitudes of people.

A good answer explaining an imperfect world with a perfect creator.

noetic16:

This is quite LAZY. it explains the fact that you are an emotional atheist, without any concrete, logical reason for disbelieving the existence of God. QED.

Actually, what you show is that you're too ignorant about your God to make any reasonable deductions. What concrete, logical reasons do you have for disbelieving in the existence of Brahman?

noetic16:

Your assertions are misinformed.

1. I cannot tell you what question you solved, simply because you could have solved any of a billion questions that leads to the answer 2. But in the case of human breathing, it is the composition of a complex structure that is part of the human body. The argument remains the same, that who or whatever is capable of designing this structure is super-intelligent.

2. Claiming that God is not bothered is also a mis-informed opinion. Have you ever bothered to read the bible? pray to God? seek answers from Him? I have tried to, and I can state that God is concerned about the state of things and things are working according to plan.

Well, maybe Yahweh already planned for me to go to hell, cos for months before dropping Christianity, I studied the Bible, asked him for answers and came up with nothing. If He has given you answers, I hold no grudges. He's our creator, right?

Martian: @Op,

Simple answer. Theophany that is repeatable in front of multitudes of people.

NICE ONE!

It shouldn't cost an Almighty God anything to dispel all honest doubts about him with convincing manifestation of himself.

Except this loving God in his omniscience has pre-determined that most of his human creatures he will torture forever in his torture chamber.