Mantu explodes: “Those who dropped for Tukur were cowards”


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Explains role on Obasanjo’s third term bid
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Senator Ibrahim Mantu was Deputy Senate President during the regime of former President Olusegun Obasanjo. In this interview with Augustine Aminu, he opens up on a number of burning issues including his role in the botched third term bid and the recent PDP National Convention.

Since you left office as Deputy Senate President, you have remained largely silent. How is life outside office?
Since I left office in 2007, I have been on what I call political sabbatical. That is why you have not been reading about me in the papers. It gave me time to do what the late Bola Ige used to say that is, ‘sit down look’ and when you sit down and look, it gives you time to meditate; you reflect on the past and you watch things from a very careful perspective and you come out with perhaps new ideas and see where you went wrong in your own life and what is going wrong with the system.
Perhaps you will be able to proffer some solutions to move the country forward. However, about two months ago, I had to come out of my sabbatical to market Alhaji Bamanga Takur as the National Chairman of the PDP. He came several times to request me to lead his campaign organisation. I was reluctant at first, but when we discussed and he told me his mission, I could see clearly that if such a person gets that position, the likelihood of restoring the lost glory of the PDP were very high and if I could be a contributing factor to restoring the lost glory of the PDP whose platform I used to come to the Senate and became the Deputy Senate President then of course it will be worthwhile contribution because it is like payback. So he convinced me and I decided to join his campaign organisation as the Chairman of the organisation and we started moving round. That was the first time people started seeing me again in public functions.
There was wide spread reports that other candidates were forced to step down for Bamanga Tukur. How would you reconcile that with the quest for internal democracy in the party?
First and foremost, Bamanga Tukur inherited a system; the changes he will introduce in the system are what are going to make the party different. Coming back to the issue of somebody being cajole or forced to step down, I think those who claim that they stepped down because they were forced should bury their heads in shame because what they are saying is that they don’t have a mind of their own. If they believed in themselves they should have gone in for the election no matter what. I will go in for it and prove to the world that I am a man of my own mind; that I don't care whether I am elected or not, but I must exercise my civil right.
So, I think that they should bury their heads in shame because they are telling Nigerians that they don't have a mind of their own, that they are just being controlled by certain powers. Why should anybody allow himself to be pushed around. I don’t think anybody stopped them. If they had been denied obtaining nomination forms or denied the right to contest, then I could have said something is wrong. They could even go to court for that, in pursuit of what is rightly theirs. But they were not denied the right to contest. They themselves went to say they were withdrawing. Whether somebody persuaded them to withdraw or not that is their own business. They have told the world that they are stepping down for this man. So who do we believe now? The lamentation after they have told the world that they are stepping down because there is a better candidate than themselves is like medicine after death.
As far as I am concerned, the convention was peaceful and that is key. It was well anchored and well conducted. I would want to see more competition. I am not condemning consensus; if consensus is well arrived at by the consent of the candidates, nothing wrong is with that. In fact, that is keeping in line with African tradition because it is our tradition that when two people are looking for something, the elders will say, “go and settle among yourselves and bring us one person, but when sometimes the people cannot do it, the elders will chip in and come in with words of wisdom. Now when you consent to that kind of decision and you withdraw, there is nothing wrong with that. But considering what goes on behind the scene before these things emerge, I will like to see more competition and people challenging other people for the positions because that is the way to develop our democratic culture. Democracy is about the right to choose
One of the targets of the PDP is to recapture the South West states. Are you convinced that the current leadership of the PDP can achieve that for the PDP?
To my own mind, it is not something that should be left alone for the national leadership of the party. It also depends on the quality of leadership that they elected at the state levels. People are looking at the leadership at that stage as a mirror. If the people who are leading the party at the state level are people who don't have good records, obviously you will find out that the followership will be poor. As I speak to you now, I don’t know much about the quality of leadership that has just been elected in the south west states. But I do hope and pray that they are the best. I am aware that there are some factions. I think the first thing they should do is to reconcile their differences and come out with a strong formidable family. That is going to be the beginning of the possibility of their taking over the lost states.
When you were Deputy Senate President, you were always having problem with your then State governor, Joshua Dariye. What were the problems?
The point is that as you know there is always conflict of power when there are two forces in a particular area. The governor is the chief executive of the state. He was number one citizen of that state. I was also Deputy President of the Senate and number five citizen of the nation at that time. We were very close from the beginning. Our disagreement was virtually caused by go-betweens. This one will come and tell you something different and tell the other person another thing. And unfortunately those go-betweens will never allow you people to sit down when they are there so that they can be confronted and perhaps dealt with.
These go-betweens are the ones who are always at work, creating division and misunderstanding among political leaders; but you, see in politics, you must always remember that there is no permanent enemy or permanent friend. There is only permanent interest. And when you have that kind situation, to reconcile with somebody you disagree with in the past will be very easy. But I see some people making enemies as a permanent feature. There is no way any politician will make enmity a feature in his life. If you do that, you lose a lot because nothing is permanent, even life itself. It is my prayer that before I die, if there is anybody I am having disagreement with, I will like to reconcile. Those who know me will tell you that I don't have political enemies. The moment something happens, it has happened. The next thing I will be looking for is how to reconcile our differences and put the past behind
We also remember a little friction with you and your former ADC when he addressed the press that you are the one behind the crisis in the states.
Let me make it clear that I will never join issues with any of my subordinates. He can say whatever he likes but he is not the kind of person I will join issues with. He made allegations and those allegations are weighty, but everybody knows that in every crisis of Plateau state, government had set up panels with very highly reputable people. In all the report of these distinguished Nigerians, nobody has ever mentioned my name as having a hand in any of the crises.
The crisis in the Plateau has become perennial. Is it that people like you cannot find solution to the issues?
The problem now is becoming more complicated than before especially with the advent of Boko Haram. Originally our problem in Jos could be described clearly as ethno-religious. But now it has gone beyond that, because we don't have Boko Haram in Jos, but recently they have extended their activities to Jos. So that has further complicated an already complicated situation. There have been committees that had been set up by the Federation Government and Plateau State Government and we came out with all sorts of suggestions. Unfortunately, what is happening in the country is that reports are not implemented. We have the Solomon Lar committee which came up with a lot of recommendations but they were not implemented. If the report of the committees had been implemented, perhaps, the problem of Jos would have been over. But I believe that the people of Jos, the so called indigenes and settlers, have learnt their lessons. We have engaged in these crises for long, and nobody has been wining; we are always losers. Both sides are losing precious souls. I think everybody in Jos is praying to God in heaven to restore lasting peace. As you know, Plateau was the most peaceful state in this country. Suddenly the devil decided to come and destroy this wonderful people’s way of live.
Are you not worried about the security situation in the country?
Who is not worried? It is only someone with mental case that should not be worried. You know and I know that if there is no peace in this country, there is no way we can develop. Without peace and stability in any country, there cannot be development. We are talking of attracting international investors, they can only come in when they know they can enjoy peace. Again, we are talking about youth unemployment, we can only achieve youth empowerment by establishing industries; again we need to attract foreign investors. If you look at the road constructions going on across the country, some of the expatriates have left sites because a few of them have been kidnapped by kidnappers and Boko Haram in north east has sent major companies away from the country and in the south the story is the same. There is insecurity everywhere. So instead of progressing we are retrogressing. So everybody should be worried about the state of security in the country. So all hands must be on deck to join forces with security agents to assist them in identifying those enemies of Nigeria in our midst, because I believe that whatever happens there must be the hand of certain indigenous people. People are saying the Boko Haram people are from neighboring countries, but they are being accommodated by our own people.
A lot of people are attributing the problem to poverty which has led to anger among Nigerians. We will recall that when the Obasanjo administration wanted to remove subsidy, you were the Chairman of the Palliative Committee and you made many recommendations.
The problem of Nigeria is that government will set up a committee and get the best brains to be members; people will work to the best of their abilities to come up with solutions but things end there. If the recommendations of our committee were taken, we would not be in the problem we are in now over fuel subsidy and so on. We came up with a sort of price control mechanism called modular system whereby if price in the international market goes up we save some money and when it goes down, instead of bringing down pump price, we save the difference and when prices go up again, we will now use the excess gain to cushion the effect and that is what goes on in most civilized countries. We had to go to many countries to be able to come up with this system. All the recommendations of our committees were not implemented apart from buying some buses. Now we are still talking about palliatives. There is nothing new in what people are recommending now. Our report was very comprehensive. If our recommendations were taken, by now we would have had so much money which has been used in the past to subsidies the pump prices. We recommended that government should encourage the building of local refineries. Government gave licenses to people but the question is, why is it that none of them build refineries? People are in business to make profit. Government must provide deliberate incentives to encourage people to invest. They did not do that. Now the cost of building a refinery now is more than twice of what it will cost in the past. So we must learn implement recommendations by committees. Even in the present administration you see a lot of committees but we need to implement. Every time the President speaks, he comes out with something from his heart for the good of the nation. He touches on fundamental issues but implementation if is the problem. We need to set up enabling environment for investment. We need to ensure that there is adequate power supply even the creation of employment go hand in hand with all these issues we have mentioned.
What is your view about the National conference?
I don’t see anything wrong in family members coming together to discuss issues that are of common interest to them.
All these Nigerians talking of Sovereign National Conference are talking within the contest of together. Nobody is taking about separation. If that is the case, then why don’t we sit down and talk. The only problem is that people are using different words for different things. What do they mean by sovereign? What is sovereign? Why bring in something that will cause confusion and make people think you have a different agenda. Many people feel we need to talk. Nigeria was amalgamated in 1914 but people feel we did not have more say in that amalgamation; that it was done by the colonial powers and today, more than 100 years, it appears that we have not really become one. In order words we are still like a mixture. We should actually be a whole if everything has to go on well. We should put the nation first before any local interest. God has given us abundant natural resources and quality human resources. There are only few countries that are as endowed as Nigeria in the whole world. We are so lucky we don't have natural disaster here. It is just for us to learn to live together.
Some people think that one of the ways to solve the problem is through zoning of leadership positions, what is your view?
In 1990, I was going to be elected as National Chairman of NRC. I have been shortlisted, unanimously by the state chairmen. Immediately we came out of the meeting, the press asked me what I was going to do differently as National Chairman, and I said I was going to give a level playing ground for all Nigerians. I said we had a situation where some people are second class citizens in their own country. I said I was going to make sure power shifts from the north to the south. I am the first politician from the north that advocated power shift and zoning in 1990. I believed that the situation where power just settles in one particular region does not augur well for the rest of the people. My decision was based on the experiences of the Biafran war and this war happened because some people felt they were marginalized. So, I felt if another section of this country says it want to secede base on the same issue of marginalization, it could lead to another war. I didn't want that to repeat itself. I wanted everybody to feel he is a first class citizen. That eventually cost me the job anyway. They said all manner of thing, that I was an igbo man (laughs) believe me, today if we have a leader that will turn our poverty into prosperity nobody will want to border where he is from.
Many Nigerians believe that you played a key role in the Obasanjo botched third term bid. Is that correct?
Third time is actually what is called tenure elongation clause. There were 102 clauses that were to be amended in our Constitution to meet the expectation and aspiration of our people. This Constitution was actually put together by the military and people feel that we should start changing some provisions to suit the democratic dispensation. In democracy everybody has a right to voice his or her opinion and if there are people who serve as umpire, they will take a decision. The question here is why was there so much noise about third term. Some people wanted Obasanjo to continue in office, some people felt he should go immediately. Others felt he was the best thing that ever happened to this country, when they look back to 1999 before he came in; when Nigeria was a Pariah nation and this man came and restored the lost glory of Nigeria and in restored the dignity of the citizens they wanted him to continue. In his first tenure, Obasanjo was going round the world trying to shore up the image of the country. a lot of people criticised him. I remember the late Gani Fawehimi even took him to court that he was more of an absentee president because of the number of time he spent outside trying to change the perception of the world about Nigeria. He wanted to let the world to know that we now had a new Nigeria and it paid off and people started coming into the country
A lot of things changed and some people felt that he should be left to continue and of course he was elected for a second term. Obasanjo himself wanted to do only four years but people felt that what they have seen in the first four years; if they allow him to continue he might even do more. By his second tenure, we had even forgotten where we were in 1999. I was Chairman of Constitutional Review Committee. I was not an advocate of third term but because I was in charge and I had a very special relationship with Obasanjo and many people suspected Obasanjo was actually looking for a third term and they saw me as the hatched person to get that done. And they now decided to start attacking me because they felt if they attack me very well the thing will not see the light of the day. So they started using the media to attack me. I never had a headache because God knows that I had no hidden agenda.
I ask people that if there was anybody I have ever spoken to to support third term, he should come out, up till now nobody has come out, yet nobody believes that Mantu is innocent just like Obasanjo is saying he was never interested in third term and nobody believes him. But what is important is your conscience. Assuming Obasanjo wanted third term, surely he would not take it by force. Since it was going to go through the people to decide, all they needed do is tell their members in the National Assembly not to support it. But people threw away the baby with the bad water and we are paying dearly today. Look at how much we spent to make the previous amendment and all that amendment was contained in our amendment which we had already proposed. If they had thrown away the tenure elongation clause and passed all the rest, we would not have a duplication of process.
The message i want to leave with Nigerians on this third term issue is that just as you have a right to say there should be no third term, somebody also have a right to say I want third term and since the debate will get to the National Assembly both of you will have to talk to your representatives. But to say somebody who wants third term is an enemy of the nation is wrong. That is not democracy. People have a right to say whatever they want they want to say.


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