nateevs: The sound of quiet. Hehehe. The moment when folks realise oops! Makalele wasn't limited. Ibime brings sanity to the board.


Guapo you surprise me. Dey join these actors dey claim Makalele was limited. I don't claim to have seen footage of Makalele in Nantes but definitely saw enough of him at Real and Chelsea to laugh at the last 3 pages. Maka limited? Never seen so much garbage spewed with only two words.

Is Mikel a limited player?

Ibime or coogar.

Does anyone have that YouTube compilation of Steven Gerrard pass which were all faulty

hensben: why cant you do it now since you have fellaini who you claim is better than matic..why wait for strootman huh

ok, this shiit is becoming annoying!
Don't allude anybody's opinion or verdict to me. Seriously its not funny.

When did I claim fellaini was better than matic?

Abeg mo rest for this issue like that doh

Katsumoto:

The quality of the league matters. Why is it that players that score incredible goals in the championship can't replicate such goals in the premiership. Don't teams who win the Championship, move up to the Premiership, end up being relegated? Don't get me wrong, Nantes was a good team but shoe get size.

The french league is second tier in Europe. What did Makelele do in Spain and in England? and what was is consistency?
What are his stats in terms of goals, assists, key passes?

Isn't it ironic that a Chelsea supporter has to use footage from when Makelele played for Nantes to showcase his 'skills'? After Nantes he went to Marseille, Celta Vigo, Real Madrid and then Chelsea.

I think you've missed the point somewhat.

Ibime's video was merely a rebuttal to the various assertions on this board that Makalele had a limited skill set.

Asking for stats for goals, assists, key passes of Makalele is completely irrelevant to discussion as his role on the pitch did not emphasise chance creation or goal scoring.

John Terry and John Oshea have exhibited decent shot stopping skills having had a few stints in goal at their respective sides. If I were to opine to you that both players had decent goalie skills, would you ask me for their clean sheet record?

Chilavert was a goalie who used to take and score setpieces. Would you request his goal per minute ratio before you believe he wasn't limited to being just a goalkeeper?

Ibime

Is Mikel a limited player?

I hate words like "Makalele was Redondo's understudy" that he was an understudy doesn't mean he can't be better than the master that's even he was an understudy, Ronaldo was said to be copying Quaresma back then, you can't even mention both in a sentence now.

Nihilist:

I think you've missed the point somewhat.

Ibime's video was merely a rebuttal to the various assertions on this board that Makalele had a limited skill set.

Asking for stats for goals, assists, key passes of Makalele is completely irrelevant to discussion as his role on the pitch did not emphasise chance creation or goal scoring.

John Terry and John Oshea have exhibited decent shot stopping skills having had a few stints in goal at their respective sides. If I were to opine to you that both players had decent goalie skills, would you ask me for their clean sheet record?

Chilavert was a goalie who used to take and score setpieces. Would you request his goal per minute ratio before you believe he wasn't limited to being just a goalkeeper?

I think you missed my point.

The anchor men who are better than Makelele were all able to showcase their skillset in all the leagues they played in. If Makelele could only showcase more skillset in France but not in Spain and England, then he is limited. Davids, Rijkaard, Matthaus, Vieira, Simeone, etc all did it at the highest level; why was Makelele only able to show his skills in France?

Like I said, championship players are able to score magnificent goals in the championship but not in the premiership - the quality of opposition is key in determining whether you have a skill or not. If you take your 5/6 yr old nephews and their friends for a kick-about, I am sure you would display Messi like skills.

Dhellake: I hate words like "Makalele was Redondo's understudy" that he was an understudy doesn't mean he can't be better than the master that's even he was an understudy, Ronaldo was said to be copying Quaresma back then, you can't even mention both in a sentence now.

You just did

Katsumoto:

I think you missed my point.

The anchor men who are better than Davids were all able to showcase their skillset in all the leagues they played in. If Makelele could only showcase more skillset in France but not in Spain and England, then he is limited. Davids, Rijkaard, Matthaus, Vieira, Simeone, etc all did it at the highest level; why was Makelele only able to show his skills in France?

Like I said, championship players are able to score magnificent goals in the championship but not in the premiership - the quality of opposition is key in determining whether you have a skill or not. If you take your 5/6 yr old nephews and their friends for a kick-about, I am sure you would display Messi like skills.

Edgar Davids played a different game to Makelele. Davids was proper box to box, Makalele was a sitter.

Makelele played a different game at Nantes to what he played at CFC and Madrid.

Bale started out as a Left Back...Now He is a forward....He will still have some of his defensive skills but no longer needs them on the pitch.

Mikel Obi was a 10 when he started his career, He will still have his offensive skils bu no longer needs them on the pitch.

If you've ever seen a training session for any pro footballers, you will already know that the vast majority of them have mad technical skills which they never show on the pitch because their roles don't require them.

raumdeuter: Ibime

Is Mikel a limited player?

Shut your mouth Raumdeuter.

Is Mikel a footballer to discuss? We are discussing the best DMs and you are bringing Mikel into conversation. If Mikel could actually do his primary job of defending, then we can discuss him.

I'm flabbergasted that some peeps are including carthorses like Dunga, Deschamps and Gattusso in discussion on World Class DMs and then call Makelele a limited player.

We know who is watching football and who is not.

Makelele was a playmaker in DM. He never gave the ball away, dictated tempo of the game and hardly ever tackled anybody - His positioning and reading of the game was that superb.

Nothing signifies thís more than one Emirates Cup game I attended between PSG and Valencia. PSG had no hold of the midfield. Maka came on at halftime and no one could get near him. The quality of his passing just showed he was the best technical midfielder on the pitch that day. The tempo, possession play - everything changed for PSG the moment he came on.

Manyoo is playing Chelsea. Instead of Makelele to be marking Rooney, SAF is asking Rooney to mark Makelele. Who is the playmaker and who is the defensive midfielder?

We are watching who knows football and who doesn't. That boy Guapo should be whipped 50 lashes. Not surprising he doesn't know much about midfield play going by his antecedents of rating Oscar above Lampard, kicking against the signing of Fabregas cos "we've got Oscar", rating Mikel and Ramires etc when I told him they're not fit for purpose, now mentioning carthorses like Dunga and Deschamps whilst downplaying Makelele. That boy would not know central midfield play if it kicked him in the face.

To answer simple question come be long thing

Is Mikel a limited player? Since he also played as a attacking midfielder earlier in his life

If Mikel comes to Nigeria he go dey show skill but when he's among fellow elite footballers he's limited

Ibime:

Shut your mouth Raumdeuter.

Is Mikel a footballer to discuss? We are discussing the best DMs and you are bringing Mikel into conversation. If Mikel could actually do his primary job of defending, then we can discuss him.

I'm flabbergasted that some peeps are including carthorses like Dunga, Deschamps and Gattusso in discussion on World Class DMs and then call Makelele a limited player.

We know who is watching football and who is not.

Makelele was a playmaker in DM. He never gave the ball away, dictated tempo of the game and hardly ever tackled anybody - His positioning and reading of the game was that superb.

Nothing signifies thís more than one Emirates Cup game I attended between PSG and Valencia. PSG had no hold of the midfield. Maka came on at halftime and no one could get near him. The quality of his passing just showed he was the best technical midfielder on the pitch that day. The tempo, possession play - everything changed for PSG the moment he came on.

Manyoo is playing Chelsea. Instead of Makelele to be marking Rooney, SAF is asking Rooney to mark Makelele. Who is the playmaker and who is the defensive midfielder?

We are watching who knows football and who doesn't. That boy Guapo should be whipped 50 lashes. Not surprising he doesn't know much about midfield play going by his antecedents of rating Oscar above Lampard, kicking against the signing of Fabregas cos "we've got Oscar", rating Mikel and Ramires etc when I told him they're not fit for purpose, now mentioning carthorses like Dunga and Deschamps whilst downplaying Makelele. That boy would not know central midfield play if it kicked him in the face.

loool ghen ghen ghen ghen esisin carry pomo

Nihilist:

Edgar Davids played a different game to Makelele. Davids was proper box to box, Makalele was a sitter.

Makelele played a different game at Nantes to what he played at CFC and Madrid.

Bale started out as a Left Back...Now He is a forward....He will still have some of his defensive skills but no longer needs them on the pitch.

Mikel Obi was a 10 when he started his career, He will still have his offensive skils bu no longer needs them on the pitch.

If you've ever seen a training session for any pro footballers, you will already know that the vast majority of them have mad technical skills which they never show on the pitch because their roles don't require them.

Davids played the same game as Makelele and did more; it wasn't different. Davids, Keane, Vieira were all anchor men who HAD the ABILITY to go forward in top tier football. We have seen footage of Makelele doing the same in a second tier French league but not in Spain or England. Davids started in the second tier as well but moving to a top league (Seria A), he did not become limited. He excelled at Juvey.

Makelele played a different game in France than what he played in Spain and England because he was simply limited. Essien who replaced Makelele went forward more than Makelele or why wasn't Essien also just a sitter

Bale changed position to enhance the skill he has; Makelele didn't change position; he only stopped going forward in superior leagues possibly because his coaches and himself likewise realised he didn't have what it took to play box-box in top tier football.

Mikel is another example of a Makelele; he regressed as a footballer. Whatever Mikel may have done in Norway, he never attempted to replicate at Chelsea. Was it not the same Mikel we saw at the WC who kept slowing the Nigerian game down and did fork all?

Training and actual matches are very different things. The pressure and opposition are different. We can all do things when we have time to do it without the concomitant pressure. The best students at Uni don't usually become the most successful in life.

Anyway I have made my point; I won't belabour the point any further.

Makelele was an excellent anchor but he wasn't the best because he was limited, at least in a top tier league.

I understand why the name of Mikel is making some uncomfortable. The same lack of creativity they lampooned Mikel for is what they're trying to hail makelele for

Katsumoto:

Davids played the same game as Makelele and did more; it wasn't different. Davids, Keane, Vieira were all anchor men who HAD the ABILITY to go forward in top tier football. We have seen footage of Makelele doing the same in a second tier French league but not in Spain or England. Davids started in the second tier as well but moving to a top league (Seria A), he did not become limited. He excelled at Juvey.

Makelele played a different game in France than what he played in Spain and England because he was simply limited. Essien who replaced Makelele went forward more than Makelele or why wasn't Essien also just a sitter

Bale changed position to enhance the skill he has; Makelele didn't change position; he only stopped going forward in superior leagues possibly because his coaches and himself likewise realised he didn't have what it took to play box-box in top tier football.

Mikel is another example of a Makelele; he regressed as a footballer. Whatever Mikel may have done in Norway, he never attempted to replicate at Chelsea. Was it not the same Mikel we saw at the WC who kept slowing the Nigerian game down and did fork all?

Training and actual matches are very different things. The pressure and opposition are different. We can all do things when we have time to do it without the concomitant pressure. The best students at Uni don't usually become the most successful in life.

Anyway I have made my point; I won't belabour the point any further.

Makelele was an excellent anchor but he wasn't the best because he was limited, at least in a top tier league.

Comparing the regression in Mikel to any part of Makalele's career is utterly disrespectful. Show me any article of anyone talking about Mikel defining a role. Whether with British commentators or not, Makaklele was talked about on this level. What then is the sense comparing Makalele with Mikel?

Makalele was DM redefined - a fine player who had supreme technical intelligence to know when to intercept opposition play, dictate forward play and when to make a 3-yard pass. Makalele understood his role and it took an appreciable amount of know-how and ability to execute his duties.


Only ball watchers come to this board telling us Maka was limited.

Katsumoto:

Davids played the same game as Makelele and did more; it wasn't different. Davids, Keane, Vieira were all anchor men who HAD the ABILITY to go forward in top tier football. We have seen footage of Makelele doing the same in a second tier French league but not in Spain or England. Davids started in the second tier as well but moving to a top league (Seria A), he did not become limited. He excelled at Juvey.

Makelele played a different game in France than what he played in Spain and England because he was simply limited. Essien who replaced Makelele went forward more than Makelele or why wasn't Essien also just a sitter

Bale changed position to enhance the skill he has; Makelele didn't change position; he only stopped going forward in superior leagues possibly because his coaches and himself likewise realised he didn't have what it took to play box-box in top tier football.

Mikel is another example of a Makelele; he regressed as a footballer. Whatever Mikel may have done in Norway, he never attempted to replicate at Chelsea. Was it not the same Mikel we saw at the WC who kept slowing the Nigerian game down and did fork all?

Training and actual matches are very different things. The pressure and opposition are different. We can all do things when we have time to do it without the concomitant pressure. The best students at Uni don't usually become the most successful in life.

Anyway I have made my point; I won't belabour the point any further.

Makelele was an excellent anchor but he wasn't the best because he was limited, at least in a top tier league.

Your entire argument is predicated on the idea that Makelele did not go forward because he had limited technical ability which has been proven to be rubbish.

Ibime had earlier posted videos showing that Makele could function in an attacking role and showcase the required technical skills required to function in that advanced role.

Coogar has repeatedly explained to you the difference between a box to box central midfielder and a specialist DM. Vidal and Matic both play in central midfield and both have defensive responsibilities but do not have the same duties on the pitch.

Michael Carrick in his hey days for Manyoo would sit deep infront of the back 4, but only a fool will say he did so for a lack of technical ability going forward.

Ditto Sergio Okin Biscuit

Katsumoto:

Are you suggesting Makelele is the reason everyone is aware of DMF? Someone needs to show you tapes of games for the last 40 years. What position did the following play: Effenberg, Van der Elst, Mauro Silva, Wim Jansen, Billy Bremmer, Clodoaldo, Frank Rikgaard, Edgar Davids, Vieira, Ardiles?

And Redondo was a solid Anchor. Was Makelele not 3rd choice behind Deschamps and Vieira? Makelele was a disciplined Anchor no doubt but to put the emergence of that role to him is inaccurate.

This is one of the biggest myths and urban legends in football. You would be suprised at just how many people think Makelele invented or perfected the DM role I can't help but chuckle each time I see it

Nihilist:

Your entire argument is predicated on the idea that Makelele did not go forward because he had limited technical ability which has been proven to be rubbish.

Ibime had earlier posted videos showing that Makele could function in an attacking role and showcase the required technical skills required to function in that advanced role.

Coogar has repeatedly explained to you the difference between a box to box central midfielder and a specialist DM. Vidal and Matic both play in central midfield and both have defensive responsibilities but do not have the same duties on the pitch.

Michael Carrick in his hey days for Manyoo would sit deep infront of the back 4, but only a fool will say he did so for a lack of technical ability going forward.

Ditto Sergio Okin Biscuit

We all know the differences between an anchor and a box-to-box MF. Box-to-box is an upgarde on an anchor because the box-to-box can defend as well as attack. If you could buy a car would you buy one without air-conditioning or one with air-conditioning? Both will get you from Lagos to Ibadan but only one will give you comfort in 30 degrees heat.

Why was it Vieira who replaced Deschamps in the French squad and not Makelele? Makelele got into the French squad before Vieira but it was Vieira who replaced Deschamps, became captain, and had over 30 more caps than makelele despite being 3 years younger and making his debut 2 years after Makelele? Simply because a box-to-box MF is better than an anchor. Almost all box-to-box MFs are starters for club and country - Gerrard, Vidal, Toure, Vieira, Keane, Davids, Matthaus, Pogba. Davids played with Zidane, arguably the greatest of his generation; why was Davids not asked by his coaches at Juvey to just sit in front of the back four in an ultra-defensive league? Keane played with Scholes; why was there a need for Keane to move forward. Yet Makelele played with lampard and still refused to move beyond the center circle.

Yes we were shown footage of Makelele in Nantes; now show us footage of Makalele advancing in Celta Vigo, Madrid or Chelsea.

nateevs:


Comparing the regression in Mikel to any part of Makalele's career is utterly disrespectful. Show me any article of anyone talking about Mikel defining a role. Whether with British commentators or not, Makaklele was talked about on this level. What then is the sense comparing Makalele with Mikel?

Makalele was DM redefined - a fine player who had supreme technical intelligence to know when to intercept opposition play, dictate forward play and when to make a 3-yard pass. Makalele understood his role and it took an appreciable amount of know-how and ability to execute his duties.


Only ball watchers come to this board telling us Maka was limited.

Who or what is a ball watcher? Would I be correct in assuming you are not a ball watcher?

If you are not a ball watcher, what would you be? Please advise.

Ibime:

Shut your mouth Raumdeuter.

Is Mikel a footballer to discuss? We are discussing the best DMs and you are bringing Mikel into conversation. If Mikel could actually do his primary job of defending, then we can discuss him.

I'm flabbergasted that some peeps are including carthorses like Dunga, Deschamps and Gattusso in discussion on World Class DMs and then call Makelele a limited player.

We know who is watching football and who is not.

Makelele was a playmaker in DM. He never gave the ball away, dictated tempo of the game and hardly ever tackled anybody - His positioning and reading of the game was that superb.

Nothing signifies thís more than one Emirates Cup game I attended between PSG and Valencia. PSG had no hold of the midfield. Maka came on at halftime and no one could get near him. The quality of his passing just showed he was the best technical midfielder on the pitch that day. The tempo, possession play - everything changed for PSG the moment he came on.

Manyoo is playing Chelsea. Instead of Makelele to be marking Rooney, SAF is asking Rooney to mark Makelele. Who is the playmaker and who is the defensive midfielder?

We are watching who knows football and who doesn't. That boy Guapo should be whipped 50 lashes. Not surprising he doesn't know much about midfield play going by his antecedents of rating Oscar above Lampard, kicking against the signing of Fabregas cos "we've got Oscar", rating Mikel and Ramires etc when I told him they're not fit for purpose, now mentioning carthorses like Dunga and Deschamps whilst downplaying Makelele. That boy would not know central midfield play if it kicked him in the face.

Lmao

Is Mikel a player with limited skillset or not? Believe me your honest answer would go a long way in setting things right in this debate.

Ibime this is a simple logical question, it doesn't call for a long project on the views Guapo held sometime ago - stop being this funny

AirborneLacer:

Lmao

Is Mikel a player with limited skillset or not? Believe me your honest answer would go a long way in setting things right in this debate.

Ibime this is a simple logical question, it doesn't call for a long project on the views Guapo held sometime ago - stop being this funny

Na simple question o.

Ibime is Mikel a limited player or not?

Nairaland. Ehn There is nothing I wont Read.. Essien replaced Makelele Loool People that dont know anything about the Modern Chelsea trying to say something..

Essien cannot Lace Makelele's boot in the DM role.. When Makelele came back from an injury, he pushed Essien to Left back, and that was the End of Belletti in that Chelsea Squad..

You can watch Moscow 2008 Final for reference..

Ibime and coogar abeg I dey find that Gerrard passes video

Katsumoto:

We all know the differences between an anchor and a box-to-box MF. Box-to-box is an upgarde on an anchor because the box-to-box can defend as well as attack. If you could buy a car would you buy one without air-conditioning or one with air-conditioning? Both will get you from Lagos to Ibadan but only one will give you comfort in 30 degrees heat.

Why was it Vieira who replaced Deschamps in the French squad and not Makelele? Makelele got into the French squad before Vieira but it was Vieira who replaced Deschamps, became captain, and had over 30 more caps than makelele despite being 3 years younger and making his debut 2 years after Makelele? Simply because a box-to-box MF is better than an anchor. Almost all box-to-box MFs are starters for club and country - Gerrard, Vidal, Toure, Vieira, Keane, Davids, Matthaus, Pogba. Davids played with Zidane, arguably the greatest of his generation; why was Davids not asked by his coaches at Juvey to just sit in front of the back four in an ultra-defensive league? Keane played with Scholes; why was there a need for Keane to move forward. Yet Makelele played with lampard and still refused to move beyond the center circle.

Yes we were shown footage of Makelele in Nantes; now show us footage of Makalele advancing in Celta Vigo, Madrid or Chelsea.

Katsumoto you are seriously falling my hand with this opata yarns by attempting to define a player's position on pitch as measurement of his technical ability.

Did Yaya Toure have a lack of ability when he played as a DM and even in defence at Barca? What was his forward play like there?

Are you telling me that Matic cannot function as a box to box midfielder?

Do you not realise that the only difference between Fernandinho and Yaya at Man City is tactical instructions? Or perhaps you think the reason Fernandinho sits back is because he is limited otu who can't even tie his own shoelaces?


That's how you said that German players were rubbish because there were several Turkish players involved in their recent successes.

Oga come correct jor!

Bimfo: Nairaland. Ehn There is nothing I wont Read.. Essien replaced Makelele Loool People that dont know anything about the Modern Chelsea trying to say something..

Essien cannot Lace Makelele's boot in the DM role.. When Makelele came back from an injury, he pushed Essien to Left back, and that was the End of Belletti in that Chelsea Squad..

You can watch Moscow 2008 Final for reference..

Why was Essien bought? To play as a left back?

Some of you come up with all kinds of ridiculous terms to make you seem more knowledgeable about football

Makelele role
Ball watchers
Modern Chelsea
I watch football more than you


Now tell us- what is modern Chelsea?

raumdeuter:

Na simple question o.

Ibime is Mikel a limited player or not?

That one concern IB.

I dey H big-time, I'm looking for where to dine in this town. Some place where I'd have my taste buds tickled.

Guapo no get time for argument now.

Nihilist:

Katsumoto you are seriously falling my hand with this opata yarns by attempting to define a player's position on pitch as measurement of his technical ability.

Did Yaya Toure have a lack of ability when he played as a DM and even in defence at Barca? What was his forward play like there?

Are you telling me that Matic cannot function as a box to box midfielder?

Do you not realise that the only difference between Fernandinho and Yaya at Man City is tactical instructions? Or perhaps you think the reason Fernandinho sits back is because he is limited otu who can't even tie his own shoelaces?


That's how you said that German players were rubbish because there were several Turkish players involved in their recent successes.

Oga come correct jor!

In essense your point is that all MFs have the ability to be box-to-box? The only difference between MFs is with instructions giving to them and not actual ability? Ok thats a new one and its noted.

Katsumoto:

In essense your point is that all MFs have the ability to be box-to-box? The only difference between MFs is with instructions giving to them and not actual ability? Ok thats a new one and its noted.

Don't be silly.

Both the box to box and anchorman are variants of the defensive midfielder position with one variant given license to bomb forward given the opportunity.

Within that context, it is not far fetched to say that most anchor men can function in a box-to-box capacity....with varying levels of efficiency off course

Katsumoto:

We all know the differences between an anchor and a box-to-box MF. Box-to-box is an upgarde on an anchor because the box-to-box can defend as well as attack. If you could buy a car would you buy one without air-conditioning or one with air-conditioning? Both will get you from Lagos to Ibadan but only one will give you comfort in 30 degrees heat.

Why was it Vieira who replaced Deschamps in the French squad and not Makelele? Makelele got into the French squad before Vieira but it was Vieira who replaced Deschamps, became captain, and had over 30 more caps than makelele despite being 3 years younger and making his debut 2 years after Makelele? Simply because a box-to-box MF is better than an anchor. Almost all box-to-box MFs are starters for club and country - Gerrard, Vidal, Toure, Vieira, Keane, Davids, Matthaus, Pogba. Davids played with Zidane, arguably the greatest of his generation; why was Davids not asked by his coaches at Juvey to just sit in front of the back four in an ultra-defensive league? Keane played with Scholes; why was there a need for Keane to move forward. Yet Makelele played with lampard and still refused to move beyond the center circle.

Yes we were shown footage of Makelele in Nantes; now show us footage of Makalele advancing in Celta Vigo, Madrid or Chelsea.

a box to box player is not superior to an anchor but they complement each other especially in a 3man midfield with another cm but in a 2man midfield like Keane and scholes the deeper player also aids in attacks (man city)

Katsumoto:

Why was Essien bought? To play as a left back?

Some of you come up with all kinds of ridiculous terms to make you seem more knowledgeable about football

Makelele role
Ball watchers
Modern Chelsea
I watch football more than you


Now tell us- what is modern Chelsea?

1stly, Who told you, You watch football than me.?? The way U think is Confusing..

Essien was bought to play as a CM, and not to replace or bench Makelele.. Mikel was the Only 1 that was bought to Understudy Makelele, and replace him..

And about Modern Chelsea? That is my Term!

But if we wanna use it, Modern Chelsea started from the Time of Gullit till date..

Nihilist:

Don't be silly.

Both the box to box and anchorman are variants of the defensive midfielder position with one variant given license to bomb forward given the opportunity.

Within that context, it is not far fetched to say that most anchor men can function in a box-to-box capacity....with varying levels of efficiency off course

First - I don't see the difference between what you stated and how I phrased you. The key point to note in your statement is that box-to-box is given license to bomb forward while anchor isn't given that license.

Second - a defender can operate as a center forward ..... with varying levels of efficiency off course (your words and logic). Since the level of efficiency is not so important, I wonder why coaches don't replace strikers with defenders when the strikers are not delivering. Why not switch the roles of Torres and Cahill? Just a thought.

If you of course agree that efficiency is important do you mind explaining why Vieira was selected more times than Makelele for France? Or why Davids started more games than Aron Winter when both were in the Dutch Team?

hensben: lie! they call it 'the makelele role' worldwide, go figure.

What a load of poppycocks. Show me articles prior to 2004 where the so called Makalele role was mentioned?